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Thread: New Regional 'Super Board'

  1. #1

    Default New Regional 'Super Board'

    Here is the link from Doug Radke's presentation on the Nov 22 it is on the Strathcona County Website.

    http://www.strathcona.ab.ca/NR/rdonl...ovember-22.pdf

    And here is Cathy's News Release

    Concern about regional 'super board'

    Published November 30, 2007

    One matter vital to the future of our municipality is occupying much of Council's time and attention: the growth plan being developed for the Capital Region under the leadership of the Province.

    Strathcona County welcomes this. We know that regional cooperation works well. Proof of this is all around us in the quality of life our residents enjoy, and the $50 billion in additional investment planned for the area.

    Last week, however, we received a draft of the Plan (PDF) 620 KB proposed for the region, and it raises some serious concerns and questions.

    The proposal would create a new 'super board' with authority over local municipalities including taxing powers.

    Land use plans would be made by a regional board rather than at a local level.

    A range of other services are listed for possible regional delivery. Among these are inter-municipal transit, information services and housing; and potentially policing, fire and ambulance, recreation, economic development, solid waste management, wastewater and potable water.

    Strathcona County is in favour of cooperation. We are committed to paying our fair share of costs related to necessary regional projects. We already deliver many services in partnership with our neighbours, and we are open to new arrangements wherever they make sense. But we believe these choices are best made by local municipalities, who understand local needs and are accountable to their taxpayers.

    A troubling aspect of the proposed regional plan is that we are being asked to agree without full knowledge of some of the most critical details.

    For example, we do not know what voting structure the regional board would use, or how our share of the costs would be determined.

    In June, when Premier Stelmach announced the process to develop a regional plan, he said the plan was aimed at efficient delivery of public services. He also said community identities would be supported.

    Last week, after seeing the proposed plan, 66 municipalities from throughout Alberta--including Strathcona County--resoundingly supported resolutions encouraging the Province to return to the principles that have proven successful--cooperation and collaboration, local autonomy and accountability.

    As your elected representatives, that is the direction we will continue to put forward.

    We also welcome your comments or questions.

    More information: Regional cooperation.

    In the spirit of community,
    Cathy Olesen, Mayor

    Mayor Cathy Olesen can be reached at 464-8000 or [email protected].

    -30-
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    Well the parks mayor is all over this in the negative...there is a suprise.

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    I had heard someone had jumped the gun on the scheduled Friday announcement. Why am I not surprised at who it was? I'm not sure it's politically wise to ruffle the feathers of those who hold all the cards...but I guess I'm not a politician.

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    In the spirit of community,

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetcrude
    In the spirit of community,
    ever notice that those that invoke works like "community" to defend their positions invariably fail to define community and when you look at the positions taken, community quickly becomes "us" and the positions taken "what's good for us"?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Cathy Olesen is obviously not making many friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citysource
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Al Maurer
    Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:41 PM
    To: COE *All Email Users
    Subject: Plan for Edmonton Region nears completion
    In June of this year, Premier Ed Stelmach announced a new initiative to create a growth management plan for the Edmonton region. We have been working closely with the province to provide information and insights on how best to manage the continuing economic boom in the Edmonton area. On Friday, December 7, we will receive the final report.

    The report will include a series of findings and recommendations to the Premier. We expect it will recommend:
    a binding regional land-use plan,
    a regional governance body to create and implement the plan and
    options for funding of regional services.

    You may be wondering what regional planning will mean for you and your work. Most importantly, the excellent services you provide to Edmontonians will remain the same; however, a regional perspective will be taken in many areas of the City’s business including land use planning, transportation planning and inter-municipal transit.

    It is early in the process, but I believe a regional planning framework will be extremely positive for our city. It’s something we asked for and it’s something that will help us to build a great region today and for future generations.

    We live in a metropolitan area of over a million people with the strongest economy in the nation but it is planned and served by 25 separate local governments. The City has long championed the need for coordinated regional planning with our neighbours. We know that good planning is critical to managing growth in a coordinated and cost-effective way.

    More information on the Edmonton regional plan will be shared with you in the upcoming days.

    Al Maurer
    City Manager
    This is from another thread on this issue....I'll lock the other one.
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  8. #8

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    I'm pretty sure that this plan will include only cost sharing and no revenue sharing. To me, this means the effectiveness of the plan comes down to the voting structure.

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    One fallacy (and a potentially dangerous one) in Olesen's arguments is her perception that Strathcona County independently provides its services to its residents.

    What about water, energy, waste treatment, waste disposal, and recycling services, all provided by the City of Edmonton? Yes, Strathcona County has a lot of petrochemical infrastructure, but future upgraders will need more power and utilities.

    Do we really want to continue this fight, and potentially drive up the cost of doing business as a result of municipalities competing against each other. Strathcona County does have a voice, but it is one of many when it comes to Metro Edmonton related issues.

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    I wasn't sure this was a good setup until Olesen said it wasn't.

    And her argument? Regional cooperation works well and we welcome it. We just don't want it to have taxing, planning, equitable voting, or basically anything that would in any way force us to cooperate.

    Brilliant.

  11. #11

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    ^I know. I love how her starting premise is that the way things are works perfectly well.

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    I've been in and out of Strathcona County for the majority of my years. I've lived out that way and beyond. The point is that I've got a pretty good sense of both sides of the argument.

    Look, I understand where the apprehension is coming from as relinquishing some autonomy to the control of a regional 'super board' is, frankly, going to be scary. We don't really know what we're getting into, but doing it the way we are does work but at quite a significant cost.

    In all seriousness, would we really want to run a business this way? Firstly, the best decisions are not being made on a regional basis. Secondly, the services that are being offered are certainly at a premium cost to the end user. This will only continue if we don't figure out how to better handle a wide range of issues on a regional scale.

    What's the real issue here? I think in large part a plan of this kind exposes the inflated bureaucracies that are currently in place.

    25 separate local governments
    For me, opposition to a plan like this is simply a vote for the continuance of wasting a lot of money for no real good reason. In addition, it is a vote to avoid making smart decisions. To use the business analogy, why should these separate governments essentially be competing against each other when we could remove most of the red-tape by actually cooperating.

    We know that regional cooperation works well.
    So what in the hell are we waiting for?

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    If anything, she should be happy with the voting structure. What is is, 15 or 17 municipalities with 75% pop or 21 overall? As in Edmonton needs to pick up support from more than half of them to pass anything? The 21 of the other 24 can easily gang up on Edmonton and there's not much we could do about it. That's more than generous.

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    The voting structure is like that? Well that doesn't seem very fair to me. If I add up the population of the 21 smallest municipalities I think it comes out somewhere around 12.5% of the region's population. If it had at least 20% of the region's population I would be less concerned about it. A fifth sounds much better than an eighth. If I had a choice in the matter I would live with it as is rather than not have something worked out.

    Personally I was hoping they would merge all the villages and a couple of small towns into their local county as specialized municipalities similar to Sherwood Park - Strathcona County. I'm a little uncomfortable with such small municipalities, some with a thousandth (or less) the population of Edmonton. having a vote.

    I'll definitely be waiting for the details tomorrow. I can easily see that being a very hot topic for the next week or so.

  15. #15

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    I didn't realize that they had released the voting plan. Olesen said it was not yet decided. If that is it, I'm glad they are going with qualified majority voting in some vein. If the EU can make it work I'm sure this region can.

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    Going by what the Journal printed this morning:

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton Journal
    The proposed voting options would see motions passed when supported by 15 or 17 municipalities with 75 per cent of the regional population, or when they're supported by any 21 municipalities.

    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...f-e237da3c5854

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    Mayor "elated" by new regional planning board

    Archie McLean and Susan Ruttan , edmontonjournal.com
    Published: Dec 19 2007 5:03 pm


    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...fff4eb&k=50233

    EDMONTON - After more than half a century of regional bickering, the province moved Wednesday to create a governing board for the fractious capital region.

    "The time for debate is over. Let's get to the table," Premier Ed Stelmach said in announcing the plan, which accepts nearly all the recommendations of a recent government report by civil servant Doug Radke.

    Under the proposal, all of the region's 25 municipalities will be part of the board. For a motion to pass, it will need the support of 17 of 25 municipalities representing at least 75 per cent of the region's population. The structure essentially gives Edmonton a veto, but Stelmach said it isn't so simple.

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    Keep in mind one thing. Edmonton will need the votes of the outlying regions, and it will not always be easy. For example, Strathcona County could probably form an alliance with Fort Saskatchewan, Lamont, Lamont County, Bruderheim, Redwater, Sturgeon County and Gibbons if it really wanted to form a credible opposition. These are all Alberta Heartland Communities. One more vote and any legislation would be defeated.

    If Edmonton wants to veto a bill of interest to the outlying municipalities, it will have to do so with the knowledge that it may need 16 Metro Edmonton votes for any Edmonton initiative.

    To earn a 2/3 majority and a 75% vote, a lot of cooperation is needed.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat
    Keep in mind one thing. Edmonton will need the votes of the outlying regions, and it will not always be easy. For example, Strathcona County could probably form an alliance with Fort Saskatchewan, Lamont, Lamont County, Bruderheim, Redwater, Sturgeon County and Gibbons if it really wanted to form a credible opposition. These are all Alberta Heartland Communities. One more vote and any legislation would be defeated.

    If Edmonton wants to veto a bill of interest to the outlying municipalities, it will have to do so with the knowledge that it may need 16 Metro Edmonton votes for any Edmonton initiative.

    To earn a 2/3 majority and a 75% vote, a lot of cooperation is needed.
    I think this would have a better chance of success with new mayors in S.C. and Edmonton. It will be interesting to see if they can work together.

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    i don't think there is anything wrong with the current mayor in edmonton. the whole thing about him being antagonistic is an invent of Null Void of the edmonton sun.

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    While I agree that the public ACRAmony between Mandel and Olesen is an issue, I'd have to say that the City of Edmonton has a few more allies in this fight than S.C. From what I am gathering, SG, SP, Leduc. St Ab, and Devon are fully onside, with Beaumont, Mornville, and many others cautiously optimistic. So, I'd have to say that a dual mayoral changeout is not necessary, or even either is necessary at all. The peer pressure is getting intense.
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  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS
    I'd have to say that the City of Edmonton has a few more allies in this fight
    That's my point. It would be better to have fresh blood on both sides coming in rather than having the two combatants in a "fight".

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    My point is that this is not needed. If anyone thinks that Mandel, his staff, and the C of E didn't have a huge hand in writing what Stelmach will more than likely support, they're mistaken.

    If S.C. strongly opposes this, even the report states, the only other option is amalgamation. This....is.....the.....LAST....chance.
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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS
    My point is that this is not needed. If anyone thinks that Mandel, his staff, and the C of E didn't have a huge hand in writing what Stelmach will more than likely support, they're mistaken.

    If S.C. strongly opposes this, even the report states, the only other option is amalgamation. This....is.....the.....LAST....chance.
    The two individuals have difficulty being in the same room together. It's an issue for sure. That's my point. Nothing about who's had a hand in writing the report or criticism of one individual or another.

    At the end of the day, they'll need to work together and that will be an issue.

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    It wouldn't necessarily have to be the mayors on the regional board, would it? The representatives can easily be councilors (from Edmonton, I can Ron Hayter or Kim Krushell being on the regional board).
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
    It wouldn't necessarily have to be the mayors on the regional board, would it?
    Nope. Even if these 2 don't get along, who cares. It would take lobbying from hell to make one or the other to make any personality conflict moot.
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    Looks like the ACRA is on death watch now. St. Albert is the latest community to leave the alliance.

    St. Albert exits regional alliance
    edmontonjournal.com
    Published: 3:14 pm

    EDMONTON - The ranks of the Alberta Capital Region Alliance are thinning, as one municipality after another follows Edmonton out the door.

    The latest to pull the plug is St. Albert city council, which voted Jan. 7 to leave the regional alliance.

    Legal, Stony Plain, Calmar, Thorsby and Wabamun have also left the organization, which once had 23 members. Devon has announced plans to leave.

    Premier Stelmach plans to create a new regional board with power to plan regionally such things as transit. Membership will be mandatory, and the board's land-use planning and transit planning decisions will be binding.

    ACRA operated as a voluntary group that made decisions by consensus.

    The ACRA board will meet Feb. 7 to decide whether to continue, alliance executive director Ken Woitt said in an interview today.

    He's philosophical about his own future, given the fact that ACRA seems to be dying. Woitt worked for the regional planning commission that preceded ACRA, which was eliminated by the Klein government in 1995.

    "We're going to be taken care of," he said of himself and fellow ACRA staffer Ronnie Stack.

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    It's a new age...

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    It is!
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    Mandel prefers to be gracious in victory

    Now that issue of a regional voice is settled, mayor wants to harmonize with his colleagues

    Scott McKeen, The Edmonton Journal
    Published: Wednesday, January 16



    What? No black eyes? No scratch or claw marks? No breaks, sprains or contusions?

    Politics is supposed to be a bloodsport, no? If so, why is Mayor Stephen Mandel still ambulatory and abrasion-free?

    After all, Mandel has been in numerous bouts this past week, meeting with mayors from places in the region where the very mention of Edmonton causes people to spit in the dirt.


    Poor Edmonton.

    It's long been cast as the villain in the historic, regional dust-up over boundaries and resources. Its relations with the burbs really went awry in 2006, when Mandel pulled the city out of the Alberta Capital Region Alliance, the supposed unifying body.

    Left to its own devices, Edmonton then invested considerable time, money and effort in hiring consultants to prove a point -- that the region would kill the golden goose if it didn't integrate into a more cohesive political unit.

    Not that regional politicians were buying it. The mayors of Strathcona and Sturgeon counties, in particular, see annexation, amalgamation or annihilation as Edmonton's secret agenda.

    Imagine their unhappiness, then, when Premier Ed Stelmach decided last month to endorse the idea of regional unification. Sources say Stelmach was under intense pressure from regional mayors and MLAs to stay the course -- and spit in Edmonton's general direction. To Stelmach's credit, he did the un-expectorated.

    Mandel decided to be a gracious winner and launch a series of diplomatic meetings with regional mayors. He says he assured them that unification is not a tax grab, nor a coup.

    "Distrust? No I wouldn't use the word distrust," Mandel said about the reaction he's seen in other mayors. "I'd call it discomfort.

    "My message? That any acrimony we had in the past, we need to put behind us and try to move forward. That we're stronger as a unit and that if we work together, we can be far more effective."

    Regional municipalities fear a loss of autonomy under a regional superboard. But if you think about it, Edmonton, too, will lose some of its independence.

    For example, there has long been talk around City Hall of Edmonton expanding its borders into neighbouring counties to accommodate rapid population growth.

    But if geese and ganders are treated equally, Edmonton will have to convince the regional board that its urban sprawl makes sense.

    "There are some challenges we have to deal with, too," says Mandel. "But we're going to have to bring those issues forward as part of the entire growth management plan."

    Mandel drove out to Sherwood Park Monday to meet with arch-rival Cathy Olesen, the mayor of Strathcona County, who has thrown a few handfuls of rhetorical sand in Mandel's face these past three years.

    "It was cordial," Mandel said. "Not friendly, but cordial. I was quite clear. I said we hadn't got along in past over issues, but that we need to move forward."

    Mandel will keep repeating to Olesen and her ilk that Edmonton is not out to steal revenue from regional partners. As he says, there's not enough municipal tax revenue in the region to build all the infrastructure an industrial boom will demand.

    Instead, the province must be convinced to share its resources, to build the Edmonton region into a powerhouse. Mandel makes the point that 25 regional councils speaking as one voice will carry much more weight with the provincial government.

    But what if it doesn't? What if it all breaks down and the turf wars and bickering renew?

    "The province will take the necessary steps to get this region to function effectively, because there's too much to lose," says Mandel.

    "Everyone has to realize that the province has gone this far to get us to work together. If we don't work together, my guess is they'll take further steps. What they would be, I don't know."

    Oh, I do. It's called amalgamation. And it's real bloody.

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    Absolutely!

    I thought it inevitable that the Province would have to step into this. Prior attempts at some srot of regional unity in the past have typically ended with both sides spewing vitriol in each direction. The time for this has come to an end. If it continues, then as Mandel has stated, the province will step in and make some changes to the agreement, much to the chagrin of the surrounding municipalities I'm sure. We should all realize that this agreement is the closest thing we are going to get to having an agreement where everyone has a say in how things are run. It's true that some autonomy must be reliquished, but the price we'd pay for having not done that would far outweigh any so-called autonomy we all think we actually have.

    Time to ditch the resentment and cancerous trading of go-nowhere arguments. I think we've all had the experience before of working with people, either at school or professionally, that aren't exactly our favorites. Regardless, there's a job to do. Let's do it well and be done with it.

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    ^ Agreed
    What impact will a pending Provincial Election have on this?
    Will premier dinning turn his back on matters north of the stetson curtain?

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    hahaha...
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    Storm ahead – Olesen
    Mayor hints higher taxes unavoidable with new regional board

    Michael Simpson
    News Staff
    Friday January 18, 2008

    Sherwood Park and District Chamber of Commerce members perhaps were looking forward to a light, cheerful speech from the morning’s guest speaker, Strathcona County Mayor Cathy Olesen.

    “Unfortunately, what I have to tell you today is not good news,” Olesen began before getting down to business. “The Radke report puts forward a new cost sharing model for the $19.6 billion of core infrastructure needs. If requisitioned by the provincial government based on population we would pay eight per cent of (these) costs and if based on non-residential assessment, this community would pay 20 per cent of the regional municipalities portion, (which) is $7.4 billion.”

    “Whether our share is eight per cent or 20 per cent, Strathcona County could be asked to pay between $594 million and $1.48 billion respectively,” Olesen said to the crowd. “No matter how these funds are requisitioned, we do not have the revenues currently that will come anywhere close to these figures.”

    Olesen made it clear what the county would be forced to do in order to pony up cash for the regional board. “We will have no choice but to raise taxes while the other orders of government, who will receive 95 per cent of the revenue and are reporting record surpluses, would have a reduced overall responsibility.”

    Olesen went on to express concern over the voting structure of the board, which she felt is tipped too heavily in Edmonton’s favour. “Strathcona will have potentially eight to 20 per cent of the responsibility for funding the new infrastructure with about four per cent of the voting power on the new board,” she said. “Our planning will be subject to the (decisions) of the board and our ability to respond to the needs of our own community will be diminished while our taxes will be increased.”


    Olesen also said that the municipal development plan will not be grand-fathered, an issue Premier Ed Stelmach had avoided discussing in front of the press when the regional board was announced only weeks earlier.

    Sherwood Park and District Chamber of Commerce executive director Todd Banks made it clear that the looming uncertainty the new regional board is creating is bad for business.

    “There was a lot of planning prior to this with the Alberta Capital Region Alliance (ACRA) and a lot of co-operation at that time. Everyone agrees that there should be co-operation with municipalities that are joined at the hip, but one of the things that concerns me is the lack of co-operation in designing this new system. A process that was supposed to make things easier hasn’t done so,” Banks said.

    Among other things, Banks pointed out that 55 per cent of county tax revenue is from non-residential sources. The board’s creation will have strong taxation impacts for local business, Banks said.

    “The biggest issue to date is how it’s been unclear how much this will cost businesses,” Banks said. “Also, if businesses will be paying, shouldn’t there be some representation from business on this new board? There’s currently none.”

    Banks’ sentiments come after a press release from chamber president Terri-Lynn Bougie in December which stated that while the chamber was encouraged by the government’s desire to increase inter-municipal co-operation, it also wanted further clarification on how funds would be collected and distributed.

    “The cost allocation for regional infrastructure must be fair and appropriate,” Bougie stated. “We need to know what business’ share will be, and businesses need to have representation in this process.”

    Bougie’s statement reflected local concerns about increasing operating costs and tighter margins.

    “Giving one member veto undermines the confidence in the board before it is even formed,” Bougie stated, adding that the chamber would continue to press the province to address their members’ concerns.

    [email protected]

    link...

  34. #34

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    Welcome to reality, Olesen. While Edmonton has had to pay the burden of funding most of this infrastructure for many years, while you collect all the benefits, and not have to pay for the social programs and etc. Now the tide turns, AND YOU CRY BLUE.

    I'm waiting for you to paint yourself even more into the corner of isolation.

    Good grief what a gong show.
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    Hmmm. I wonder what happend to the same Oleson who has issued press release after press release championing cost sharing, but not revenue sharing?

    Time to update the talking points to "co-operation with municipalities that are joined at the hip, but not a lack of co-operation in designing this new system." Although that isn't quite as catchy.

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    She is evil

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    didn't the county have to raise the property taxes by quite a margin (percentage wise. not sure about the actual amount) even before the Radke report came out? I think she just found her scape goat--the evil radke report is responsible for it. people are gullible and will believe. she is being a "typical politician" in the negative sense of the word.

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    The reaction from Banks is equally puzzling. I thought all of the regional business associations and chambers of commerce were onboard with the regional co-operation thing?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    WOW! i never knew relations with sherwood park were so dicy until i came to this forum. but seriously though amalgamation! (just kidding, or am I?!)

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    It is not with Sherwood Park per se, but with an ineffective and unfair alignment that the PROVINCE allowed to fester.


    55,000 person "hamlet" - sheesh.
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    Sherwood Park may be a 55,000 person Hamlet but for funding purposes the Province treats it as a city, following the same cost sharing formulae as any other city in Alberta.

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    Ah, I see.
    To summarize: the sky is falling, *insert random statistics*... they're being mean, it's not fair, it's all X's fault, etc.
    Give me a break. I'd go on but I'm trying to be polite.

    I will agree that I believe the veto for Edmonton feels slightly overbalanced to me however I can't think of a better alternative other than annexation.

    It's 'stuff' like this that makes me wish we'd just annex the region just to cut down on the arguments and pointless political posturing.

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    Yup.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60
    Sherwood Park may be a 55,000 person Hamlet but for funding purposes the Province treats it as a city, following the same cost sharing formulae as any other city in Alberta.
    The "hamlet" piece was only one part...it was just the metaphor for inconsistency in the area. When you try to have too many kings and queens sit at a table, all saddled with their delusions of grandeur, don’t be surprised you get Metro Edmonton.


    I agree Bryguy.
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    Olsen's "Storm Ahead"speech was front page story in the Sherwood Park Newspaper on Friday. On page 3 of this same paper, there was an article quoting the Strathcona County Manager of Economic Development and Tourism (Gerry Cabinet)about the massive economic activities planned for Strathcona county in the coming years. All of the projects are upgrader related. "If all projects go ahead as planned Strathcona County will see about $63 Billion by the year 2023" He goes on to say that right now Strathcona county is "Doing very well" with approx $13 Billion in ongoing projects. He adds that the City of Edmonton doesn't have one billion dollar project at the present time.

    Talk about hypocracy. Strathcona county has all of these massive projects - but it is up to Edmonton or someone else to pay for the infrastructure required to support these projects.

    Don't you just love politicians.

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    She is good at what She does...its just to bad what She does serves no good.

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    I thought some of you might enjoy this one...

    Mandel denies remark
    Edmonton mayor rejects claims by Olesen saying he would call shots for Industrial Heartland from now on
    Conal MacMillan
    Sun Media
    Tuesday March 18, 2008
    Edmonton Mayor Stephen Mandel said his city will be making decisions on Industrial Heartland area priorities, Strathcona County Mayor Cathy Olesen told Thorhild County council last week.

    “I’ll get in trouble for saying this one but Stephen Mandel came and saw me at my office and he was curious as to how we identified priorities in the Heartland area for highways. And he says, ‘Well, you’ll have to send me all your plans because Edmonton will be making those decisions for you from now on,’” Olesen said, quickly adding that she has a witness.

    But Mandel’s chief of staff Patricia Misutka was quick to deny Olesen’s comments when she learned of them, saying “unequivocally” that the Edmonton mayor never made such a comment.

    Misutka did confirm that the meeting took place because Mandel met with all regional mayors to discuss their priorities, she said.
    The rest found here...

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    Ok Cathy, present your witness.

    ...or is this more fear mongering and rhetoric?

    This has got to stop, on all sides.

    "forced amalgamation"....do you really want to know what "forced amalgamation" looks like. Trust me Cathy and company, Radke isn't it.
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    Forgive my ignorance on Edmonton regional politics, but shouldn't Edmonton be essentially calling the shots in the region, including the Industrial Heartland.

    Simply, the region would not be what it is without Edmonton.

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    Don't let logic and common sense get in the way of a good debate!
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  52. #52

    Default

    I wonder if this is why Cathy is flinging hate again?

    Local gov't will have to follow new land-use rules

    Archie McLean with files from Jason Markusoff
    The Edmonton Journal


    Tuesday, March 18, 2008


    EDMONTON - Alberta's municipal districts and counties may have to accept a smaller role in land-use decisions under the province's new planning framework, Sustainable Resource Development Minister Ted Morton says.

    "It's going to impose some provincewide rules and guidelines that will limit the discretion of MDs and counties," Morton said.

    "So, there will be some loss of autonomy for MDs and counties. But to get a provincial land-use framework, you have to have that. There are certain things that only the provincial government can do."

    But Morton stressed that final decision-making power will still rest with local governments.

    "The recommendation is that land-use approval will be made by the existing decision-making bodies which are at the MD and county level, but those decisions will be framed by provincial rules that will have to be obeyed," he said Monday.

    Despite its innocuous sounding name, the land-use framework has the potential to fundamentally alter a series of battles that have popped up across the province in recent years, including city and county squabbles over development, ATV use on the eastern slopes, oilsands development in cottage country and coalbed methane's effects on agricultural water supplies.

    The task was started by former resource development minister David Coutts, then given to Morton when he because minister in December 2006.

    The ministry conducted extensive consultation with stakeholders, including a non-scientific survey that suggested widespread public concern about the environmental impacts of the province's resource boom.

    Morton will likely face some tough questioning on the issue when he attends a ministers' forum Wednesday at the Alberta Association of Municipal Districts and Counties' conference in Edmonton.

    Gordon Svenningsen, the reeve of Ponoka County, said there's real anxiety over the plan among his provincial colleagues. He's hoping Morton will come Wednesday with more information to share.

    "There are concerns all across the province about exactly what this will all entail. It's a fairly important issue with all the demands for the land we walk on," Svenningsen said at the conference trade show.

    "There were a million people in Alberta, now there's three, soon there will be five. And there's only so much land to stand on."

    Svenningsen and AAMDC president Don Johnson both say land-use planning is vital to the province's future. Johnson said his association gave the government a tremendous amount of input into the framework, which he believes was well received. For that reason he's waiting to see the province's final draft before commenting.

    "We've had no signals from the government that they're going to get heavy handed," Johnson said. "We've had a very positive relationship with the government, with the minister."

    Morton admitted that the debate will be more clear once a draft plan is released sometime in May.

    "I'm still sort of in the awkward position of being asked questions about the baby, but the baby hasn't been delivered yet," Morton said.

    Morton said Calgary may see a similar form of regional government as the contentious provincial plan for Edmonton.

    "It's not possible for one of the players to set policy for the whole region. And we've seen already in the capital region, metropolitan Edmonton, the government stepping up and taking the initiative to create a framework for regional co-operation on infrastructure issues. And I think you'll see something similar recommended for the Calgary metropolitan region."

    The plan was first slated for release at the end of January.

    Once it is made public, it will go back to the government for revisions in July or August and then to government caucus for final approval sometime after Labour Day.

    [email protected]

    © The Edmonton Journal 2008

  53. #53

    Default Strathcona deplores Edmonton's veto

    County will join regional board but 'we will not stand down,' says mayor Cathy Olesen


    edmontonjournal.com
    Wednesday, March 26, 2008

    EDMONTON - Strathcona County will join the new regional board armed with a survey showing 84 per cent of its citizens reject giving Edmonton a veto on the board, Mayor Cathy Olesen said today.

    In her annual State of the County address, Olesen said she's prepared to move forward with discussions of the new board, which is to guide regional planning in Edmonton and 24 surrounding municipalities.

    "But we will not stand down," she told a packed lunch crowd at Festival Place. "We will stand up for what is right."

    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...eec6f0&k=51150

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    Cathy's rhetoric is getting real old....
    LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

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    ^ I don't know. I think she makes a compelling case for the importance of the continued autonomy of the County of Strathcona:

    Starting in June, county residents will be supplied roll-out carts for their garbage
    This is what gives Strathcona County it's indefinable sense of history and community. Character like that can't be retained if Strathcona County loses it's independence. What if the City of Edmonton were to use its veto to take away citizens' garbage carts? It might happen, you know.

    These are the rights that people have fought for since the very earliest stirrings of democracy.
    Last edited by newfangled; 26-03-2008 at 07:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MylesC View Post
    Cathy's rhetoric is getting real old....
    ...and fast!

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    The right to have a garbage cart? Nobody has ever fought over that... sorry. Except maybe the bums who used to push their carts down my alley at 3am.

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    I can't resist.

    Cathy, this one's for you:

    LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

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    Is that supposed to say "I LOL'd"? As in, "I laughed out loud"?

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    Rofl, what else would it be?
    LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

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    O'Rly?
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

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    oh god no, eradicate the 4chan memes before they take over the board.

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    Or email them all to Cathy Olesen's office
    LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

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    Cathy Olesen is just a paranoid rabble rouser.

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    Amalgamate

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    we should play this like the game "RISK" and slowly take over everything around edmonton.

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    What should happen is the province should just force these communities to amalgamate with the city. But of course that won't happen because they don't want anger the people who vote for them. Personally, I think this new board is going to be just as big of a gong-show as the previous one. Especially with attitudes like the one our good friend Cathy is sporting. Get a grip woman... you're nothing special.

  68. #68

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    to me, it really sounds like the radke report is getting full backing from the provincial government and even more. 50 years of injustice will come to an end in our near future

    Cathy Olesen's is crying out, I would be too, if my job was being eliminated because of inefficenices...She does nothing but to continue to prove how inefficient the region really is with 23 odd different municipal governments with her constant natterings.

    The power is in the veto. Edmonton has it, and no one else does,rightfully so. Eventually, I would imagine we will slowly see services combined, and one regional municipal government formed
    I think this new super board will work, if the province makes it work. IF. again, to me, it sounds like Stelmach and co really want to make this work, as the current arrangement doesn't.

    (in my dream world, tomorrow we wake up, and Edmonton is one big unicity with an urban growth boundary/green belt surrounding it for 25-75 km from its current urban borders)
    Last edited by Medwards; 27-03-2008 at 05:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Cathy Olesen's is crying out, I would be too, if my job was being eliminated because of inefficenices...
    A couple of things about this, people in the County are very concerned about the regional board. The feeling amoung the politicians that I know is that they are fighting a losing battle and that Edmonton definately has the upper hand. However, does anyone really believe that the politicians are concerned about losing their jobs? The real fear on that front are the long timers that work for the County that are justifiably concerned about their livelyhood and supporting their families should their jobs become redundant (anyone with a family or that has been downsized can appreciate this). This is not an argument for or against amalgamation, regional board, etc. but just a comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ins View Post
    (...)The real fear on that front are the long timers that work for the County that are justifiably concerned about their livelyhood and supporting their families should their jobs become redundant (anyone with a family or that has been downsized can appreciate this). This is not an argument for or against amalgamation, regional board, etc. but just a comment.
    This is of course understandable and a very valid concern. There will be redundancies and this is one of the crux economic arguments for amalgamation or even shared services - one of a re-evaluation and optimization of resources including headcount.


    However, this is not 1982, or 1990. There are a lot of decent jobs out there and employers crying out for help. Finding another job will not be too much of a problem for many.

    Another issue (like with other mergers that I know of) will involve the typical union fight of seniority. Many of the region's workforce is not in a bargaining unit, so sudden entry into one will cause the regular fight of seniority by date of hire in your old world, or date of joining union X - and then complaints of lost promotions or bidding opportunities on those "demoted" individuals etc etc etc.

    No one in any model that I've seen has ignored this potential strife. In fact, this strife has caused many amalgamations to fail in achieving the savings promised (aka the authors just gave up and the end headcount remained the same or grew), and thereby somewhat inaccurately used as a point against amalgamation. In reality, an astute labour manager could re-allocate headcount to areas where it is needed, look to voluntary severance for more senior members (aka packages), offer relocation and retraining assistance for those transitioning to new roles, and also collaborate with NAIT and other institutions to get the last lot of workers into new careers.

    There are solutions.
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    Hicks on Six Blog worth reading from a few days back....

    http://blog.canoe.ca/hicksonsix/2008...gonal#comments
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    RichardS, further to your comments below, did you ever watch the British TV series " Yes, Minister" ?
    This show depicted the height of power-bureaucracy and brilliantly depicted who was really running the show in government.
    The "Hamlet" status for Sherwood Park that Hick's refers to, has always been a bone in the throat of a lot of people

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    Its been awhile, but yes, I did watch Yes Minsiter.
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    From the comments section of the blog:

    but how would people know what Stony Plain Road was if there weren't a Stony Plain.
    Maybe I'm just feeling goofy, but I thought that comment was hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. Maybe they'd know because, I don't know, it's called Stony Plain Road? Oh I agree it might not have been called that two hundred years ago or whenever if there wasn't a Stony Plain. But what does that have to do with the road's name today? Nothing. I'd wager most people in Edmonton have never even been to Stony Plain. I know if it wasn't for hockey growing up, I'd never have been there, and I haven't in well over 10 years.

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    Stony Plain is named for the geological area we're on, called the STONY PLAIN.

    That's all.

    Whitemud is also a strata...a little lower down...near the Blackmud...sound familiar?
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    I guess this fits here:

    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...6-34477b8b897d

    Quality of life in danger: report

    Gov't blueprint calls for return of regional planning to development process
    Renata D'Aliesio, Calgary Herald; Canwest News Service
    Published: 3:02 am

    EDMONTON - More than a decade after Alberta abandoned regional planning, a move that fuelled battles over development across the province, the Stelmach government is proposing a dramatic shift that would affect everything from recreation to housing construction to oil and gas drilling.

    In a draft copy of the province's sweeping land-use framework obtained by the Calgary Herald, the government concedes Alberta's development has reached "a tipping point." Albertans' quality of life will deteriorate, the report warns, if the province sticks with its current laissez-faire approach to planning.

    "If we want our children to enjoy the same quality of life that the current generations have, we need a new land-use system," says a December draft of the government's land-use framework, a blueprint for overhauling planning decisions in Alberta.
    LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MylesC View Post
    I guess this fits here:

    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...6-34477b8b897d

    Quality of life in danger: report

    Gov't blueprint calls for return of regional planning to development process
    Renata D'Aliesio, Calgary Herald; Canwest News Service
    Published: 3:02 am

    EDMONTON - More than a decade after Alberta abandoned regional planning, a move that fuelled battles over development across the province, the Stelmach government is proposing a dramatic shift that would affect everything from recreation to housing construction to oil and gas drilling.

    In a draft copy of the province's sweeping land-use framework obtained by the Calgary Herald, the government concedes Alberta's development has reached "a tipping point." Albertans' quality of life will deteriorate, the report warns, if the province sticks with its current laissez-faire approach to planning.

    "If we want our children to enjoy the same quality of life that the current generations have, we need a new land-use system," says a December draft of the government's land-use framework, a blueprint for overhauling planning decisions in Alberta.
    Why again did it take so bloody long to come up with the concept of needing a new approach to land use planning? Anyway, the sooner the better... Acting now will not make required changes hurt so badly in the future.

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    What's interesting is that the gov't is saying Calgary AND Edmonton.

    If that's the case...Sherwood Park be damned. It's happening.
    LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

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    Yeah because the PC party doesn't care what happens unless it starts to affect Calgary.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Actually this affects Grande Prairie, Wood Buffalo, Peace River, Stettler, Edmonton, Calgary..shall I go on?
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  81. #81

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Actually this affects Grande Prairie, Wood Buffalo, Peace River, Stettler, Edmonton, Calgary..shall I go on?
    Please do. I love when you bring your logic into any debate.
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    hahaha...I detect a note of sarcasm...
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    I think that our province has to protect our environment better. This includes better management of our natural resources, even within the Capital Region.

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    "promote high-density infill development, intensify transportation corridors, and establish a direction for future growth"

    I read urban sprawl containment. Good news.

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    its easy to talk the talk but can the government walk the walk?

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    its easy to talk the talk but can the government walk the walk?
    After the election result we just had... I think the PC party can pretty much do anything they want. I believe that they will take into account the concerns of the public, but this is an admission that for too long housing development has occurred unrestricted, and the collective decisions we have been making are finally being called into question. This is good. Many will disagree, however, it's about time that some of the charlatans out there be sat down and force fed a barrage of facts and obvious projections. Infantile? I'd say it were necessary.

  87. #87

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    April 15, 2008
    Long-range Capital Regional planning, cooperation gets underway
    Government committed to act on long-standing regional planning issue
    Edmonton... The Alberta government has now officially established the Capital Region Board enabling the 25 area municipalities to develop a long-range plan to manage growth over the next 50 years. “Moving forward on regional planning is part of my government’s plan to prepare for the long term future of the province,” said Premier Ed Stelmach. “Recognizing the scale of challenges the Capital Region faces it is essential that infrastructure and services be provided in a timely and effective way.”
    Ray Danyluk, Minister of Municipal Affairs, said this is an important milestone in meeting the development needs of the Capital Region. “Our government is absolutely committed to making this board and this region work,” Danyluk said.
    The regional board consists of mayors and reeves from the 25 municipalities in the Alberta Capital Region. The Premier appointed Christopher Sheard to chair the board in the start-up period. The Government of Alberta will provide start-up funding to the board, and ongoing support and advice as required.
    The board’s immediate priority is to create a long-range plan on regional land use and infrastructure such as roads and transit.
    Now that the board has been formally established, Sheard will call the board’s first meeting. Over the coming weeks, the board and provincial government representatives will meet with interested parties to ensure clear understanding on the role of the board and to gather input.
    For more information about the Capital Region Board visit www.municipalaffairs.alberta.ca -30-
    Media inquiries may be directed to:
    Jody Korchinski, Communications
    Municipal Affairs
    780-427-8862
    To call toll free within Alberta dial 310-0000.
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    Are we really thinking ahead?

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ry/energy/home

    Oil prices, gasoline costs to double: CIBC report
    SHAWN MCCARTHY
    Globe and Mail Update
    April 24, 2008 at 11:17 AM EDT
    OTTAWA — Crude oil prices will soar to more than $200 (U.S.) per barrel over the next five year – driving Canadian pump prices to $2.25 a litre and forcing a fundamental transformation in the North American economy, says Jeff Rubin, chief economist with CIBC World Markets Inc.

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    I guess I'm missing your point with this post. Your question seems much more global.
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    I think he's saying that we need to be truly planning for a future where mass-transit may well become a necessity due to the cost of energy, not somewhere in-between where we can pat ourselves on the back that we've got a couple LRT stations here and there that most people only use to go to entertainment events (if ever) but continue to live in far flung suburbs where most of their trips are by single occupant cars.

    Which is kind of the way we're headed unless we get some true regional growth management strategy together pronto, that WILL include restricting new development in outlying areas.

    The price of oil and therefore gasoline are going to continue going up, no matter what we do. The question is the Edmonton region reacts to that.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz0469 View Post
    I think he's saying that we need to be truly planning for a future where mass-transit may well become a necessity due to the cost of energy, not somewhere in-between where we can pat ourselves on the back that we've got a couple LRT stations here and there that most people only use to go to entertainment events (if ever) but continue to live in far flung suburbs where most of their trips are by single occupant cars.

    Which is kind of the way we're headed unless we get some true regional growth management strategy together pronto, that WILL include restricting new development in outlying areas.

    The price of oil and therefore gasoline are going to continue going up, no matter what we do. The question is the Edmonton region reacts to that.

    At least someone out there thinks the way I do. Yes, I was intentionally vague with the post in the hopes of having some of us "connect the dots" between this story and what seems to be a neverending discussion over the best routes/methods for addressing the Edmonton transit debate.

    Personally, I feel quite strongly that our LRT should NOT cater to those living quite far from the city center. I feel that if it's necessary to do so then we could eventually do it, but the model of rolling out LRT to satellite communities before ensuring excellent LRT access to all Edmonton citizens (starting at the core and expanding outward) may prove to be a very costly mistake.

    My take on much of the discussion so far is that we have not yet identified the mid-range to longer term public transit priorities we have as a regional entity. I consider this more than a little troublesome. I'm not attempting to be purveyor of everything doom & gloom here, but there are real and large scale influences at work here and for a region that has had its development be largely enabled by relatively cheap energy, I fail to understand why this issue isn't more pressing. I realize that as a new "regional entity" it will take some time to prioritize our development, but we should really be clarifying on a larger scale what is important for the region.

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    Sweetcrude, another thing that the Capital Region should consider is the price of food.

    Read on...

    Food, gas prices will only get worse, experts say
    Tiffany Crawford and Eric Beauchesne, Canwest News Service
    Published: 6:55 pm
    Soaring prices on everything from food to gasoline walloped consumers Thursday as the Bank of Canada warned of weaker economic growth to come - new evidence the U.S. recession has deepened and is dragging down other sectors of the economy as it continues to slide.

    Basic food items are becoming more scarce and the price of those commodities is soaring, matched only by the rapid increase in the cost of gasoline. Food shortages, hoarding by producing countries and a pernicious cycle of energy prices driving up production costs is only making the situation worse.

    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...3cfa3d&k=68551

    Comment: I think that this will force the Capital Region to seriously consider land use, particularly farmland.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetcrude View Post

    At least someone out there thinks the way I do. Yes, I was intentionally vague with the post in the hopes of having some of us "connect the dots" between this story and what seems to be a neverending discussion over the best routes/methods for addressing the Edmonton transit debate.

    .

    That's fine and all, but some would see that vague article moreso towards economic diversification...

    Anyway, the regional transit plan must include both elements as you discuss, and from what I see it does. Don't let some high level drawings fool you, other than 87th, a lot of the routes are more designed with TOD's in mind in the first place, and this LRT system will not get extended out until Edmonton is taken care of. The Edmonton folks are taking care of Edmonton first. Once the region pitches in under the current governance (or lack thereof), then they can start talking regional transit, and especially LRT.
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    Default What is with our MLAs

    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...4cc60bf9c4&p=2
    Why is it our mayor is the only one who is willing to stick up for us? What the hell are our MLAs doing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...4cc60bf9c4&p=2
    Why is it our mayor is the only one who is willing to stick up for us? What the hell are our MLAs doing?
    Apparently a whole lot of nothing... sorta like our MPs (Rahim Jaffer *cough* comes to mind).

  96. #96
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    not that C2E is so powerful, but I have tried to start a thread here where we (representing edmontonians) set a few expectations of our MP's and the response was a total of 5 posters and really no support. if we don't have any expectations of them--why should they bother? it seems like the only expectation we have is of the mayor and he is the only one doing something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...4cc60bf9c4&p=2
    Why is it our mayor is the only one who is willing to stick up for us? What the hell are our MLAs doing?
    This article is about the health superboard. This thread is about the regional superboard.

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by DebraW View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...4cc60bf9c4&p=2
    Why is it our mayor is the only one who is willing to stick up for us? What the hell are our MLAs doing?
    This article is about the health superboard. This thread is about the regional superboard.
    Me bad.
    I was searching for a place to put this and ended up here. Sorry

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    Saw Avi Friedman (architect from Montreal and McGill Prof - interest is urban plannin) this weekend as he was in E town to provide possible solutions to the Regional planning forum. Very nice man. Does anyone have any details on how the consultation went from the regional view?

    BTW he had not heard about the Arlington debacle but was saddened when I told him a beautiful historic building in Edmonton had been allowed to die due to an uncaring owner and a powerless bureaucracy.
    Last edited by booster; 30-11-2008 at 12:25 PM. Reason: added info about Friedman
    My antidepressent drug of choice is running. Cheaper with less side effects!

  100. #100

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    Funny enough you should mention Avi Friedman. He was up here in Slave Lake around summer time, put on by our Development Services Department. He is a very nice man with a lot of insight on urban planning. Unfortunately only a handful of people cared enough to come see him, which was sad for everyone involved.

    I did not know he was in Edmonton to help provide solutions for the Regional Planning.

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