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Thread: Jason Kenney and UCP performance - post election catch all NOW CLOSED

  1. #1

    Default Jason Kenney and UCP performance - post election catch all NOW CLOSED

    Since winning the election Kenney has:

    -agreed to federal governments pipeline delay
    -decided not to “turn off the taps” to BC
    -said he would do what ever it takes to help Scheer win the federal election
    -defended the (federal) Carbon tax

    its been 5 days. 2 of those were holidays

  2. #2

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    Come on Medwards, give him a chance.


    If he had those two full days without it being a holiday, Jason would have backpedaled on far more issues.
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    Indeed. It only takes two seconds to spin on a dime.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Who knew Jason Kenney had another career before politics??
    https://www.thebeaverton.com/2019/04...or-as-premier/

  5. #5

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    -postpones superlab before even been sworn in

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    Edmonton is going to have to stand up for itself as a city.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Driving down 127th St. south of Ellerslie Rd. today and noticed that the temporary sign for the new hospital has already been covered with sheets of ply.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    They'd only poured a few pylons, nothing to cry over..
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    I wonder how much of this is a review of the proposed projects. Are any others in Alberta delayed?
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  10. #10

    Default Pessimism reigns among oil and gas producers

    Some devastating survey results here regarding business plans. Basically, many of the few Alberta companies that are going to invest in new projects will invest in the US and not Canada:

    https://www.jwnenergy.com/article/20...dustry-survey/

    Want to change that? The formula is laid out for Kenney in the survey - top of the list:

    - market access
    - right fiscal tax and regulatory policies

    bottom of the list:
    - diversifying industry
    - climate strategy
    - First Nations issues

    Three quarters said federal carbon tax would put their company at disadvantage with rest of world.
    Last edited by downtownone; 24-04-2019 at 06:42 PM.

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  12. #12

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    "We’ve been clear that should the United Conservatives form government in Alberta, our first measure will be to repeal the NDP carbon tax and join with Saskatchewan and Ontario in the fight against the Trudeau carbon tax.[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.96)] – Jason Kenney, UCP media release, June 15, 2018."

    2019: Defends the federal carbon tax.
    [/COLOR]

  13. #13

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    “We don’t think it’s reasonable for other provinces like Quebec to take our equalization money while opposing pipeline projects that can help us to pay the bills within the federation,” Kenney told reporters Wednesday on the heels of a Tuesday night election that saw his party win a majority government.


    Yet, he was one of the ones that voted for the current equalization formula. How friggen two faced.

  14. #14

    Default Frustrated Albertans want to ssee a confrontational Jason Kenney

    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    “We don’t think it’s reasonable for other provinces like Quebec to take our equalization money while opposing pipeline projects that can help us to pay the bills within the federation,” Kenney told reporters Wednesday on the heels of a Tuesday night election that saw his party win a majority government.


    Yet, he was one of the ones that voted for the current equalization formula. How friggen two faced.
    Bolded it for you, Quebec wasn't holding up energy east then. Kenney is a lot more in tune with most Albetans than you are:

    https://nationalpost.com/news/john-i...l-jason-kenney

  15. #15

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    That is correct.

    was supported by the Governments of Ontario and Quebec, who want the impact of the project on greenhouse gases examined as part of the National Energy Board review process, but do not oppose the project in principle.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_East
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    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    “We don’t think it’s reasonable for other provinces like Quebec to take our equalization money while opposing pipeline projects that can help us to pay the bills within the federation,” Kenney told reporters Wednesday on the heels of a Tuesday night election that saw his party win a majority government.


    Yet, he was one of the ones that voted for the current equalization formula. How friggen two faced.
    Bolded it for you, Quebec wasn't holding up energy east then. Kenney is a lot more in tune with most Albetans than you are:

    https://nationalpost.com/news/john-i...l-jason-kenney
    a right wing opinion piece from a right wing newspaper means absolutely zilch to me. What was your previous username? why didn't you continue using that one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    “We don’t think it’s reasonable for other provinces like Quebec to take our equalization money while opposing pipeline projects that can help us to pay the bills within the federation,” Kenney told reporters Wednesday on the heels of a Tuesday night election that saw his party win a majority government.


    Yet, he was one of the ones that voted for the current equalization formula. How friggen two faced.
    Bolded it for you, Quebec wasn't holding up energy east then. Kenney is a lot more in tune with most Albetans than you are:

    https://nationalpost.com/news/john-i...l-jason-kenney
    A lot more in tune, that's why so many voted for him.
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    Hanging Jason Kenney on his own petard:

    CALGARY — The federal government can’t guarantee it will have a decision on the proposed Trans Mountain pipeline expansion prior to the next election, Natural Resources Minister Amarjeet Sohi said.

    The deadline was pushed back to June 18 from May 22 on the recommendation of Indigenous communities and former Supreme Court justice Frank Iacobucci, who is advising the government on the consultation process...

    “I’m very confident that by June 18, cabinet will be able to make a decision on this project.”

    But despite the deadline, Sohi wouldn’t guarantee a decision would come before the next federal election expected this fall.

    “No, I cannot commit to that because it’s not my decision. It’s the decision of the cabinet,” he said.

    “What I can commit to is that we will follow the process, we will continue to engage Indigenous communities in a meaningful two-way dialogue to ensure that our constitutional obligation is met....”

    “Each province is expected to have their own climate change plan in place and the cap on emissions from oilsands development is part of that plan and we look forward to working with the new government to understand how they will continue to either support that plan or have a new plan,” Sohi added. “We understand the amount of emissions that are generated in Alberta are significant.”

    https://edmontonjournal.com/pmn/news...5-a2cf8c4809d6
    UCP supporters should look in the mirror and admit the biggest threat to getting a pipeline built to tidewater is none other than the erstwhile warrior Jason Kenney.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    “We don’t think it’s reasonable for other provinces like Quebec to take our equalization money while opposing pipeline projects that can help us to pay the bills within the federation,” Kenney told reporters Wednesday on the heels of a Tuesday night election that saw his party win a majority government.


    Yet, he was one of the ones that voted for the current equalization formula. How friggen two faced.
    Bolded it for you, Quebec wasn't holding up energy east then. Kenney is a lot more in tune with most Albetans than you are:

    https://nationalpost.com/news/john-i...l-jason-kenney
    A lot more in tune, that's why so many voted for him.
    A lot more in tune with misinformation and placing their blames according to the misinformation.

  20. #20

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    I love how Kenney is all of a sudden the problem. NDP refused to acknowledge the foreign funded anti tar sands campaign. The ndp put in numerous anti oil activists into all sorts of high ranking positions in Alberta to help manage our oil and gas sector.

    Our ndp actively campaigned and spoke against multiple pipelines. We can go on and on and on with things that the NDP did that were questionable at best

    But yes let's blame Kenney for having to fix the ndps mess.

    The salty ndp tears that continue are great. Keep em coming.

  21. #21

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    Ya, that's just not correct gwill211. The NDP were very pro pipeline and fought for energy east and transmountain pipeline.

    And lets consider facts here. Even if the pipelines were built, the boom is not coming back to Alberta (thank goodness). Automation has changed the need for a massive workforce and completion of all the major oilfield construction projects, without much in the future being required...

    But yes, lets blame Notley and the NDP for the 43 years of corruptness in the PC government doing absolutely nothing when times were flush.

    yes, the salty UCP tears built on misinformation are great. Keep em coming.

    Stelmach, Redford and Prentice were the worst things that happened to this province, Kenney will be there too.
    Last edited by Medwards; 26-04-2019 at 08:39 AM.

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    Jason Kenney becomes Premier next week. So of course his decisions will be scrutinized just like Rachel Notley's were when she was Premier.

    But Kenney is also an experienced politician. There's growing evidence that - to get a pipeline built to tidewater - the Trudeau-Notley alliance will shortly be replaced by the Trudeau-Kenney alliance.

    Kenney's "war room" is really for show and designed to appease the pro-oil hard liners. But watch for a climb down on scrapping the oil sands emissions cap and the expedited coal phase-out. So far as carbon pricing is concerned, Kenney is already on record as saying post-election that he prefers the federal backstop to the Alberta carbon levy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards
    Stelmach, Redford and Prentice were the worst things that happened to this province, Kenney will be there too.
    Actually Prentice could well have done good for the province, had he won the election. Problem was, he was too honest when he said Albertans needed to "look in the mirror". IE: we can't continue to expect the most spending and best services if we aren't willing to pay for it. 4 years later that very much remains the case. Unfortunately instead of looking in the mirror, most Albertans are content sticking their heads in the sand and hoping that going back to 1 party rule will somehow help the province evade economic and fiscal reality.

    It's really interesting to read this article again, 4 years of NDP government later: https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...nancial-crunch

    Basically nothing changed. We're still in the same position, needing to look in the mirror.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 26-04-2019 at 09:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Actually Prentice could well have done good for the province, had he won the election. Problem was, he was too honest when he said Albertans needed to "look in the mirror". IE: we can't continue to expect the most spending and best services if we aren't willing to pay for it. 4 years later that very much remains the case. Unfortunately instead of looking in the mirror, most Albertans are content sticking their heads in the sand and hoping that going back to 1 party rule will somehow help the province evade economic and fiscal reality.
    Most wanted to look in the rear view mirror. Look what I had! It's all your fault!

  25. #25

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    notley spoke against energy east and keystone. She didnt support those pipelines. You cant pretend to be pro oil while having anti oil charities actively working for your campaign.

    You cant be pro oil and say fighting the anti oil foundations is a waste of time. You cant be pro oil and put an anti oil activist into the Alberta energy regulator agency.

    Let's not let facts get in the way medwards.

    I find it amusing those crying over the ndp loss keep trying to bring up the boom times.... talk about living in the past.

    Alberta's decided we needed a govt that cared about our oil industry. They decided the economy mattered. It's the failings of the ndp to show Alberta that this mattered to them which is why they lost.

    Keep crying the salty tears. I'm sure we will have many years of enjoyment from them.

  26. #26

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    Its funny that you keep trying to imply people are crying salty tears. We are talking about the new order of government now, and you are here to defend it. The roles have reversed. I'm kinda excited for this change.

    Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason.

    I'm not going to bother with your misinformation attempts. NDP in Alberta were not anti-oil. Federal, sure... but the local NDP hardly aligned to the federal level.

    Alberta decided it was angry and that anger was misdirected through misinformation like you are spreading above...

    But Jason Kenney is now in Power, and this thread is to talk about the (mis)steps he and the UCP will take. Much aligned to the Liberal and NDP thread previous to this one.
    Last edited by Medwards; 26-04-2019 at 01:49 PM.

  27. #27

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    just because you dont like the facts doesnt make it misinformation.

    I agree the change is good. I'd be ok with the govt changing every 4 years to hold those in charge of our province accountable.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    notley spoke against energy east and keystone. She didnt support those pipelines. You cant pretend to be pro oil while having anti oil charities actively working for your campaign.

    You cant be pro oil and say fighting the anti oil foundations is a waste of time. You cant be pro oil and put an anti oil activist into the Alberta energy regulator agency.

    Let's not let facts get in the way medwards.

    I find it amusing those crying over the ndp loss keep trying to bring up the boom times.... talk about living in the past.

    Alberta's decided we needed a govt that cared about our oil industry. They decided the economy mattered. It's the failings of the ndp to show Alberta that this mattered to them which is why they lost.

    Keep crying the salty tears. I'm sure we will have many years of enjoyment from them.
    Geez my family has been involved the oil sector here for around 8 decades. That doesn’t mean I have to be pro oil.

    Do you think tobacco farmers, asbestos miners, coal miners, electric company owners etc love their products when they are doing damage? These things create a lot of desirable results but they have a downside if abused or used excessively.

    A friend’s family used to have a substantial business that owned multiple pulp mills in, and logged significant areas of BC, yet he talked about the bad, risky and unsustainable practices that were being used by the industry. (He even married an environmental lawyer.) This reflects the acknowledgment of reality rather than the ideological defence of the indefensible.

    It’s not so much hypocrisy as having to deal with the legacy we’ve inherited and the embedded lifestyle and dependence we’ve developed as a result of past success. We need to fight to buy time, research alternatives, save and diversify. We need to recognize that our oil still has immense future value and maybe just torching it isn’t the best use.

    So as we all recognize that the old path will lead to disaster we can support intelligent transitions. Seems insane but to do that.


    Moreover, people should recognize that we are just an invention away from being put out of business. A new battery, a new capacitor, a cheaper solar panel, safe nuclear of whatever could wipe out demand almost overnight. These anti-oil issues may just turn out to be the things that keep us from going off a cliff like a bunch of lemmings.
    Last edited by KC; 26-04-2019 at 02:18 PM.

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    ^gwill211. Actually, a lot of your claims are not only misinformation but outright false.

    The Notley government supported Energy East:

    We are deeply disappointed by the recent decision from TransCanada," Premier Rachel Notley said in a statement issued at 8:43 a.m.

    "We understand that it is driven by a broad range of factors that any responsible business must consider. Nonetheless, this is an unfortunate outcome for Canadians.
    "Our government has supported Energy East since the project was proposed," Notley added.

    "We believe this nation-building project would have benefited all of Canada through new jobs, investment, energy security and the ability to displace oil being imported into Canada from overseas and the United States."

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...lout-1.4340939
    The Notley government not only supports Keystone XL they committed 50,000 barrels a day of Crown-owned oil to help get it built:

    TransCanada chief executive Russ Girling thanked U.S. President Donald Trump for his continued support of the project as well as the efforts of other U.S. backers and the Alberta government.

    "We appreciate Alberta Premier Rachel Notley for her government's commitment to the project which was instrumental to achieving the commercial support needed to proceed," said Girling in a news release.

    The Alberta government stepped in to commit 50,000 barrels a day for the project from some of the royalty payments the province accepts as barrels of oil, with Notley spokeswoman Cheryl Oates saying it will help the industry.

    https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/transcan...-2019-1.971651
    I don't mind debating UCP supporters. But constantly having to correct outright falsehoods gets tiresome.

  30. #30

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    Honestly, we should hope Kenney backpedals on a lot of topics.

    Half of his campaign promises were just pandering to the emotions of voters...we can't win against equalization, pipeline injunctions etc...only winners are the lawyers. And he knows that. And you wonder why people are apathetic to voting, it's because politicians love spewing BS. They're basically walking, talking tabloids with catchy phrases and when you read deeper, they distract you with a new headline.

    On the topic of equalization, I feel like 85% of Albertans believe at the end of the year, our Finance Minister just opens the chequebook and writes Ottawa a $2-$10bln cheque in which Ottawa then divvies up to Quebec, Ontario and the Atlantic provinces.

    That's not how equalization works. Equalization money comes from the income taxes collected on your paycheques and at the end of the year, Ottawa takes portions of those income taxes and gives "hand outs" to the provinces which took in less income tax. There's no "Alberta" money being "given" to Quebec...it's merely "rebates" given by the Feds to the lower income provinces. It's almost no different than the PM promising infrastructure money for projects - Ottawa is just promising more money to the have-not provinces.

    I found it rather disingenuous that Kenney understood full well how equalization works and he did nothing to stop the myths and rather riled up the emotions around the issue. And then you watch as the voter base laps it all up.

    On the pipeline topic, props to Kenney, but he managed to skirt completely around the issue that we had PC gov'ts both Provincially and Federally for over a decade and no pipelines were built. Look how well the Keystone in the states is coming along - Mr. MAGA is having a tough time laying pipe. The curious part is, the pipeline ensures that Alberta gets exploited for our natural resources to make the States rich (refinement), but they still can't get the pipeline issues figured out south of the border. It's not something you put down in 4 years anymore. This isn't the 1970s. This is 2019.

    Heck just go back to 2009. Fort Mac went into a standstill for almost two years. Engineers across the province were unemployed, new grads could not find jobs. We had PCs in power at both levels of gov't...so Alberta "Was open for business" during the financial collapse, yet we experienced a sharp rise in unemployment, deferred investments in the oilsands. Why?? It couldn't be the price of oil...just because it dropped from all time high of $160/barrel down to $50/barrel over a span half a year couldn't be the reason no...it couldn't have been the PC gov'ts either..we had lowest taxes in North America...it must be bad luck.

    Yet this time around, price of oil had very little to do with the unemployment, it was all fiscal policies of the NDP. Yea that must be it. if NDP had business friendly policies, the layoffs would have been less severe.

    My point being, we had, including the 2014 oil collapse, 4 major oil collapse events which caused Alberta to go into recession. In the cases where both govt's were PC govt's, the Right leaning folks simply blamed it on luck. Yet during the times when it wasn't a complete Conservative ship, it was obviously due to NEP and NDP. Talk about "looking in the mirror" indeed.

    In hindsight, as Marcel suggests, Prentice could have been a good choice for Albertans. He was blunt and Albertans didn't want to hear the truth - especially from an outsider. But now, a new outsider appears but instead of scapegoating Albertans for the mess that was created over 5 decades, he simply just blamed the mess at NDP. Hook Line and Sinker. We are doomed to repeat.


    By no means were the NDP perfect. They were definitely spend happy but they knew they were a one term wonder and tried to get as much done before the next round of austerity hits and more of our infrastructure goes to waste.

    So now that Kenney has basically thrown all his eggs in one basket (jobs, economy all on oil). He better hope that the oil prices are on a uptrend. Given the sanctions on Iran again, he may have just hitched a ride to becoming a saviour when WTI becomes $80 and WCS consistently stays above $65 again.

    Of course if oil goes back to $40 again, and no new jobs are made and further layoffs are had...it must be:
    A) bad luck if Sheer forms gov't
    B) Trudeau's fault if he retains power

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    Of course if oil goes back to $40 again, and no new jobs are made and further layoffs are had...it must be:
    A) bad luck if Sheer forms gov't
    B) Trudeau's fault if he retains power
    That's true, but then isn't everything bad, whoever is in power, their fault?
    The JT liberals are still bringing up Harper..he's gone JT, move on already..
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  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Of course if oil goes back to $40 again, and no new jobs are made and further layoffs are had...it must be:
    A) bad luck if Sheer forms gov't
    B) Trudeau's fault if he retains power
    That's true, but then isn't everything bad, whoever is in power, their fault?
    The JT liberals are still bringing up Harper..he's gone JT, move on already..
    Saving this above post for later, I feel it will be handy

  33. #33

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    Maybe Kenney will amend the Elections Act to make khamikhazie candidates legal.

    RCMP investigation into alleged UCP leadership voter fraud expands to Edmonton

    Cross-referencing two of the party lists obtained by CBC News shows the vast majority of the fraudulent emails were attached to memberships between Oct. 3 and Oct. 24, 2017.

    The suspect email addresses attached to members were all purchased in the days leading up to the leadership vote on Oct. 28, 2017. None of the emails are currently in service.


    It is not known how widespread the practice was outside of the selected sample, and there could be more fraudulent emails with valid domains like Gmail or Hotmail.


    CBC News contacted a dozen people with suspect emails attached to their memberships who confirmed they did not vote in the leadership race, and said their emails were different from the ones on the list.


    Former UCP MLA Prab Gill has alleged in a letter to the RCMP that the Kenney leadership campaign used fraudulent emails to receive personal identification numbers needed to cast ballots in the leadership race. Gill said those PINs, which should have been sent to individual members, were then used by the Kenney campaign to vote for Kenney.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...tion-1.5113684

  34. #34

    Default Former Pembina Institute head quits AER before Kenney could fire him, alleging 'smear campaign'

    To his credit, he resigned before he could claim severance - not sure what on earth the NDP was thinking appointing environmental activists to key positions:

    "Mr. Whittingham and Pembina have opposed every proposed pipeline project in recent memory, including Energy East, Keystone XL, Line 3 and the Trans Mountain expansion. What's more, they support Justin Trudeau's 'no more pipelines' law, Bill C-69. We reject the assertion that telling Albertans the truth about these facts amounts to a smear."

    "Premier-designate Jason Kenney has been clear that our incoming administration is going to be relentlessly focused on a strong, assertive and strategic defence of our economy, our workers and our way of life. Getting pipelines built, fighting back against foreign funded special interests, and standing up for a fair deal in Canada are key priorities of our team. Mr. Whittingham's assertions on our emissions cap commitments are false, and we are pleased he has resigned."

    Kenney himself kept it shorter on Twitter:
    "It was gracious of Ed Whittingham to resign a day before we could fire him," Kenney tweeted.
    "Our government will never appoint people like him who are avowed opponents of Alberta jobs. And we will stop all funding to groups engaged in economic sabotage against Alberta."


    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...tion-1.5115373
    Last edited by downtownone; 29-04-2019 at 03:14 PM.

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    ^Whittingham was appointed to the Board of the AER, he was not on their staff. He wouldn't have been eligible for severance either way.

    The incoming UCP government should provide proof for their assertion that Whittingham and Pembina opposed every proposed pipeline project. Otherwise, making such a statement is a smear (libelous). Whittingham said in the same article: "Under my long tenure at the organization, Pembina never intervened in any regulatory process to oppose any pipeline," he said.

  36. #36

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    are you doubting the pembina anti oil stance?? Do you think whittingham was supportive of our oil sands?

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    ^Whittingham was appointed to the Board of the AER, he was not on their staff. He wouldn't have been eligible for severance either way.

    The incoming UCP government should provide proof for their assertion that Whittingham and Pembina opposed every proposed pipeline project. Otherwise, making such a statement is a smear (libelous). Whittingham said in the same article: "Under my long tenure at the organization, Pembina never intervened in any regulatory process to oppose any pipeline," he said.
    intervening in any regulatory process has a specific meaning and references a particular course of action.

    "never intervening" is not the same as "never opposing" and is a far cry from "supporting".
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    ^As quoted in the CBC article, Whittingham also said: "My views on responsible energy development are well documented in many op-eds and blogs readily available online, and are entirely consistent with safe, environmentally responsible development of oil and gas resources. I have maintained constructive and respectful relationships with Alberta's industry leaders and devoted my career to advancing solutions to the energy challenges we face."

    Kenney's press secretary made the following statement: "Mr. Whittingham and Pembina have opposed every proposed pipeline project in recent memory, including Energy East, Keystone XL, Line 3 and the Trans Mountain expansion." Mr. Kenney on Twitter made this statement: "Our government will never appoint people like him who are avowed opponents of Alberta jobs. And we will stop all funding to groups engaged in economic sabotage against Alberta."

    Unless these statements emanating from the UCP leader can be backed up with factual evidence, it's hard to see them as anything other than attacks (smears) on Whittingham's integrity and reputation.

    As the incoming government, the UCP can legally rescind Whittingham's appointment to the AER Board of Directors. But it does not give the UCP the right to defame him.

  39. #39

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    vivian Krause is tweeting memos signed by whittingham that shows hes part of the tar sands campaign which we know has one objective.

    Do you know what that is east McCauley?

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    Maybe we will get a PST. I'm not holding my breath though.

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Maybe we will get a PST. I'm not holding my breath though.
    That would make Kenney sooo popular...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Maybe we will get a PST. I'm not holding my breath though.
    That would make Kenney sooo popular...
    assuming they are elected to do the right thing(s) and not the potentially most popular one(s), why not?

    i sometimes think that if rachel notley hadn't made a silly election promise not to do so last time and stuck with it instead of changing her mind, the province might not be as poor off today as a result and might still look different politically.

    haven said that, she's not the first to fall into that trap. even worse was when jim prentice had the entire province primed and ready for a sea-change in approach financially and refused to go forward with more than a puff budget, a shot-gun wedding nobody wanted or needed and an early election than everyone wanted or needed even less.

    of the two, prentice's (non) policy was probably more harmful because he really did have the choice and declined even though he knew we were headed for a structural deficit (the same one that landed full force on notley) and that making the tough decision would have kept the province on a balanced budget footing.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Maybe we will get a PST. I'm not holding my breath though.
    That would make Kenney sooo popular...
    assuming they are elected to do the right thing(s) and not the potentially most popular one(s), why not?
    Who decides what is "right"? If Alberta got its spending down to the per-capita levels of provinces like BC, there would be no need for a PST/HST - the answer isn't always to tax more, to take more from people, the answer is to spend less / more responsibly. Less government, more private sector = more wealth for everyone (even the bureaucrats over time).

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Maybe we will get a PST. I'm not holding my breath though.
    That would make Kenney sooo popular...
    assuming they are elected to do the right thing(s) and not the potentially most popular one(s), why not?
    Who decides what is "right"? If Alberta got its spending down to the per-capita levels of provinces like BC, there would be no need for a PST/HST - the answer isn't always to tax more, to take more from people, the answer is to spend less / more responsibly. Less government, more private sector = more wealth for everyone (even the bureaucrats over time).
    Tell me how exactly less government would translate into more private sector and how that would equate to more wealth for everyone.

  45. #45

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    One must remember that the private sector is not elected nor is charged with serving the greater public good.

    Some people still believe the whole trickle down theory as cannon.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Maybe we will get a PST. I'm not holding my breath though.
    That would make Kenney sooo popular...
    assuming they are elected to do the right thing(s) and not the potentially most popular one(s), why not?

    i sometimes think that if rachel notley hadn't made a silly election promise not to do so last time and stuck with it instead of changing her mind, the province might not be as poor off today as a result and might still look different politically.

    haven said that, she's not the first to fall into that trap. even worse was when jim prentice had the entire province primed and ready for a sea-change in approach financially and refused to go forward with more than a puff budget, a shot-gun wedding nobody wanted or needed and an early election than everyone wanted or needed even less.

    of the two, prentice's (non) policy was probably more harmful because he really did have the choice and declined even though he knew we were headed for a structural deficit (the same one that landed full force on notley) and that making the tough decision would have kept the province on a balanced budget footing.
    Should the province have been kept on a balanced budget footing?

    Personally I don’t think so. Notley inherited a crashing economy. To annually balance the budget means that our government (driven as it is via the rear view mirror) would have taxes and spending moving rapidly up and down in a pattern akin to the volatility of oil prices.

    Given the low interest rates of the day, pre-oil-price-crash absence of savings, the preceding high oil prices driving unrealistically high economic expectations, I’d say the NDP’s debt spending was warranted to keep us out of a depression. That was year one and two. By that point though they should have strong-armed both the public and private sector into a whole lot of concessions to cut costs or force down wages to increase hiring and rebalancing the budget to avoid taking on more debt.

    The whole borrow and spend approach without any strong-arming unions, executives, etc. just keeps a good portion of the populous blissfully ignorant; sunning on the beach while the tsunami builds and wipes out other sectors on its approach.

    Additionally, we have to reduce our reliance on royalties so someone needs to actually do something about the situation. Notley talked about it and then what? The carbon tax? If that was it, they should have said so.

    On breaking the dependence, guaranteed that half the people will always say: “great idea BUT this is not the time”. They of course want the money for themselves - now.

    As crazy as it sounds, we’d be better off borrowing money (even over downturns like 08/09 and the last few years) to re-start our heritage savings plan than doing essentially nothing for years and years and years.
    Last edited by KC; 30-04-2019 at 05:09 PM.

  47. #47

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    ^As they say in the private sector, you have to spend money to make money.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Maybe we will get a PST. I'm not holding my breath though.
    That would make Kenney sooo popular...
    assuming they are elected to do the right thing(s) and not the potentially most popular one(s), why not?
    Who decides what is "right"? If Alberta got its spending down to the per-capita levels of provinces like BC, there would be no need for a PST/HST - the answer isn't always to tax more, to take more from people, the answer is to spend less / more responsibly. Less government, more private sector = more wealth for everyone (even the bureaucrats over time).
    who decides? we all do. we decide what is right for us to do or not to do as individuals and we decide what is right for us to support or not support as individuals (and collectively).
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Maybe we will get a PST. I'm not holding my breath though.
    That would make Kenney sooo popular...
    assuming they are elected to do the right thing(s) and not the potentially most popular one(s), why not?

    i sometimes think that if rachel notley hadn't made a silly election promise not to do so last time and stuck with it instead of changing her mind, the province might not be as poor off today as a result and might still look different politically.

    haven said that, she's not the first to fall into that trap. even worse was when jim prentice had the entire province primed and ready for a sea-change in approach financially and refused to go forward with more than a puff budget, a shot-gun wedding nobody wanted or needed and an early election than everyone wanted or needed even less.

    of the two, prentice's (non) policy was probably more harmful because he really did have the choice and declined even though he knew we were headed for a structural deficit (the same one that landed full force on notley) and that making the tough decision would have kept the province on a balanced budget footing.
    Should the province have been kept on a balanced budget footing?

    Personally I don’t think so. Notley inherited a crashing economy. To annually balance the budget means that our government (driven as it is via the rear view mirror) would have taxes and spending moving rapidly up and down in a pattern akin to the volatility of oil prices.

    Given the low interest rates of the day, pre-oil-price-crash absence of savings, the preceding high oil prices driving unrealistically high economic expectations, I’d say the NDP’s debt spending was warranted to keep us out of a depression. That was year one and two. By that point though they should have strong-armed both the public and private sector into a whole lot of concessions to cut costs or force down wages to increase hiring and rebalancing the budget to avoid taking on more debt.

    The whole borrow and spend approach without any strong-arming unions, executives, etc. just keeps a good portion of the populous blissfully ignorant; sunning on the beach while the tsunami builds and wipes out other sectors on its approach.
    over the medium/long term, absolutely the province should be kept on a balanced budget footing. does that mean in the short term that the province should never incur a deficit. of course not - short term deficits can be a key to maintaining that medium/long term balance.

    in terms of alberta achieving a balanced budget (in the medium/long term, not in any particular year), in general i think it's safe to say we have an income deficit more than we have too high expense levels (please note that this a high level comment, not one meant to imply that everything we are spending is being spent wisely).
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  50. #50

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    Except in the case of government. In which case, people can vote for a government and then refuse to take any responsibility when that government does something they don't like.

    "Cancel the superlab!".

    "I support the lab but I'm not going to hold that against them"

    or

    "The pride flag is the same as the Nazi flag"

    "Sure, the party didn't kick him out but he, and the many others like him, have the right to their opinion, even when they're close friends and advisors to the premier"

  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Maybe we will get a PST. I'm not holding my breath though.
    That would make Kenney sooo popular...
    assuming they are elected to do the right thing(s) and not the potentially most popular one(s), why not?
    Who decides what is "right"? If Alberta got its spending down to the per-capita levels of provinces like BC, there would be no need for a PST/HST - the answer isn't always to tax more, to take more from people, the answer is to spend less / more responsibly. Less government, more private sector = more wealth for everyone (even the bureaucrats over time).
    who decides? we all do. we decide what is right for us to do or not to do as individuals and we decide what is right for us to support or not support as individuals (and collectively).
    And the most elections here have clearly indicated the majority’s wishes - at election time. So as it becomes clear that the elected party takes their win and runs and does nothing to prepare for the inevitable, then it’s clearly every man for himself, until election time and maybe after (as it would have been under a continuance of a PC government.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Except in the case of government. In which case, people can vote for a government and then refuse to take any responsibility when that government does something they don't like.

    "Cancel the superlab!".

    "I support the lab but I'm not going to hold that against them"

    or

    "The pride flag is the same as the Nazi flag"

    "Sure, the party didn't kick him out but he, and the many others like him, have the right to their opinion, even when they're close friends and advisors to the premier"
    ffs, who are you responding to that actually said any of those things in this discussion, in this thread or anywhere else for that matter?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Maybe we will get a PST. I'm not holding my breath though.
    That would make Kenney sooo popular...
    assuming they are elected to do the right thing(s) and not the potentially most popular one(s), why not?
    Who decides what is "right"? If Alberta got its spending down to the per-capita levels of provinces like BC, there would be no need for a PST/HST - the answer isn't always to tax more, to take more from people, the answer is to spend less / more responsibly. Less government, more private sector = more wealth for everyone (even the bureaucrats over time).
    who decides? we all do. we decide what is right for us to do or not to do as individuals and we decide what is right for us to support or not support as individuals (and collectively).
    And the most elections here have clearly indicated the majority’s wishes - at election time. So as it becomes clear that the elected party takes their win and runs and does nothing to prepare for the inevitable, then it’s clearly every man for himself, until election time and maybe after (as it would have been under a continuance of a PC government.)
    i'm sorry - i must have missed the memo that said that in between casting your ballots from one election to the next you can't write, email, phone, post to the premier, to cabinet ministers, to mla's including but not limited to yours, to forums and magazines and newspapers and petitions and industry groups. the election determines the makeup of government, it doesn't preclude on-going communication, particularly when they are elected based on the sum total of a myriad of factors and platform policies. no-one - probably including the premier and elected caucus members agrees with all of them. and every one of them - or the ea's - pays attention to the number of letters and emails and phone calls they get as well as what is said an published elsewhere. it's not as if they disappear down a rabbit hole never to be seen again for four years.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  54. #54

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    Who indeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    who decides? we all do. we decide what is right for us to do or not to do as individuals and we decide what is right for us to support or not support as individuals (and collectively).
    If you vote for the party that promised to cancel the lab then you are voting to cancel the lab, whether you agree with the decision or not.

    Using an extreme historical analogy, average Germans may have voted for the Nazi party based on their economic situation but that doesn't mean that Hitler's pledge to exterminate the Jews (which was well known when he came to power) isn't also on their shoulders.

    You vote for the party, all their decisions are your responsibility since it was your vote that put them in power.

    Note, I don't mean your vote, as in kcantors vote, I'm speaking in general terms.

  55. #55
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    Nice to see premier Kenney sworn in today, a lot of small businesses look happy as well...
    Animals are my passion.

  56. #56

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    I notice that the taps are still open.

  57. #57

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    Twenty Ministers and Two Associate Ministers appointed to cabinet (one in charge of 'Red Tape Reduction' )

    These are fiscal conservatives?

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    And we get proud MAGA hat-wearing Devin Dreeshan in cabinet, too. Good grief.
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

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    OMG, the poor NDP had a press conference, to say how bad Kenney was? are they for real..ya lost, and for good reason, see ya in opposition. LOL
    Animals are my passion.

  60. #60

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    Hollow Lady, we now have a government where Calgarians are the majority. They aren't going to care a whole lot about you or anyone else in Edmonton. Bravo!
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Hollow Lady, we now have a government where Calgarians are the majority. They aren't going to care a whole lot about you or anyone else in Edmonton. Bravo!

    The last government didn't do much, I'm happy for small businesses that suffered under the now dead party, and who voted UCP..
    Hollow lady?
    Thomas, bitter and 16, it's an awful age..
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  62. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Maybe we will get a PST. I'm not holding my breath though.
    That would make Kenney sooo popular...
    assuming they are elected to do the right thing(s) and not the potentially most popular one(s), why not?
    Who decides what is "right"? If Alberta got its spending down to the per-capita levels of provinces like BC, there would be no need for a PST/HST - the answer isn't always to tax more, to take more from people, the answer is to spend less / more responsibly. Less government, more private sector = more wealth for everyone (even the bureaucrats over time).
    who decides? we all do. we decide what is right for us to do or not to do as individuals and we decide what is right for us to support or not support as individuals (and collectively).
    And the most elections here have clearly indicated the majority’s wishes - at election time. So as it becomes clear that the elected party takes their win and runs and does nothing to prepare for the inevitable, then it’s clearly every man for himself, until election time and maybe after (as it would have been under a continuance of a PC government.)
    i'm sorry - i must have missed the memo that said that in between casting your ballots from one election to the next you can't write, email, phone, post to the premier, to cabinet ministers, to mla's including but not limited to yours, to forums and magazines and newspapers and petitions and industry groups. the election determines the makeup of government, it doesn't preclude on-going communication, particularly when they are elected based on the sum total of a myriad of factors and platform policies. no-one - probably including the premier and elected caucus members agrees with all of them. and every one of them - or the ea's - pays attention to the number of letters and emails and phone calls they get as well as what is said an published elsewhere. it's not as if they disappear down a rabbit hole never to be seen again for four years.
    The phone rings off the hook for days prior to an election, then there’s essentially silence for four years. In between, it seems they are too busy giving access and time to lobbyists and representatives of various groups than to talk to individuals. And I bet they too miss the memos sent to them.

    However maybe I’m wrong. I often am. I’ll have to try actually writing-in a few serious suggestions and see what happens.

  63. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    I notice that the taps are still open.

    Tomorrow! I bet the taps are sticky. Frozen on the entitlement setting. I bet tomorrow they get turned off!

    BC will get such awake up call. Can’t wait to see it all come down the pipe!
    Last edited by KC; 30-04-2019 at 11:15 PM.

  64. #64

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    It's tomorrow and the taps are still open.

  65. #65

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    I said tomorrow not today. You wait. Kenney is good for his word! Tomorrow the taps get turned off for sure!!!
    There’s an audit of the situation underway.



    No, no no! It’s NOT backpedaling!

    BC get ready. This will change your tune!
    Last edited by KC; 01-05-2019 at 07:03 AM.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I said tomorrow not today. You wait. Kenney is good for his word! Tomorrow the taps get turned off for sure!!!
    There’s an audit of the situation underway.



    No, no no! It’s NOT backpedaling!

    BC get ready. This will change your tune!
    Such spiteful vengeance. It’s the ugly side of Albertans who don’t care who they “get” as long as they “get” someone.

    It’s a shame you’re going to be so sadly disappointed.

  67. #67

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    He did exactly what he said he would do on day 1 - proclaim the legislation into law.

    Kenney promised repeatedly during the election that, should the UCP win, his cabinet would proclaim Bill 12 “within one hour” of being sworn in.
    Neither Kenney nor his Energy Minister Sonya Savage would comment Tuesday on whether that was still the plan, but the premier confirmed in an op-ed penned originally for the Vancouver Sun (now running in the Journal and Calgary Herald) that his cabinet had charged ahead.
    “We did not proclaim this law to reduce energy shipments to B.C. but to have the power to protect Alberta’s ability to get full value for our resources should circumstances require,” Kenney wrote.
    “By proclaiming this law, we are showing that we are serious about protecting Canada’s vital economic interests. This does not mean energy shipments will immediately be reduced but that our government will now have the ability to actually use the law should circumstances require.”


    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...ps-legislation

  68. #68

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    That's not turning the taps off on day one. He didn't do exactly what he said he would do.

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    As the book closes on the NDP time in government (for now), more evidence that - despite the bad hand they were dealt and the unrelenting negative propaganda campaign by the UCP and its allies - their economic record was actually quite good.

    Statistics Canada reported today that Alberta's 2018 GDP growth was above the national average.

    In 2018, real gross domestic product (GDP) increased in nine provinces and in all territories. Real GDP declined in Newfoundland and Labrador. Nationally, real GDP by industry rose 2.0%.

    Among the provinces, the strongest growth occurred in Prince Edward Island (+2.6%), followed by Quebec (+2.5%), British Columbia (+2.4%), Alberta (+2.3%) and Ontario (+2.2%). Growth was below the national average in Saskatchewan (+1.6%), Manitoba (+1.3%) and Nova Scotia (+1.2%). New Brunswick real GDP edged up 0.1%.
    More details here:

    In Alberta, GDP advanced 2.3% in 2018 following the rebound of 4.6% in 2017. Goods-producing industries (+3.1%) and service-producing industries (+1.8%) contributed equally to total growth. The energy sector accounted for almost half of the total growth in the economy in 2018, despite the recent decline of oil prices and the widening price gap between West Texas Intermediate and Western Canadian Select.

    Mining, quarrying and oil and gas extraction increased 6.4%. Oil and gas extraction grew 7.9% due to strong growth from both oil sands extraction and oil and gas extraction. Support activities for oil and gas extraction rose 2.2% despite a decline in activity in the second half of the year after a strong start. Capacity constraints limited pipeline transportation to a 2.9% increase. Coal output fell 23.9%.

    https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail...90501a-eng.htm

  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I said tomorrow not today. You wait. Kenney is good for his word! Tomorrow the taps get turned off for sure!!!
    There’s an audit of the situation underway.



    No, no no! It’s NOT backpedaling!

    BC get ready. This will change your tune!
    Such spiteful vengeance. It’s the ugly side of Albertans who don’t care who they “get” as long as they “get” someone.

    It’s a shame you’re going to be so sadly disappointed.
    Wow. You lack a sense of humour. Is it the BC comments that bother you?

    You’ll find many postings from me about Alberta over-building production knowing for a decade or more that indigenous rights over their un-ceded lands could be a game-stopper on pipelines and so on exports. And on problems with bitumen cleanup. BC figuratively speaking has been looking after its interests. The blame doesn’t really fall on BC but there too they have politicians that I see no reason to spare sarcasm.

    Or is it my mocking the UCP’s get tough innuendo? If so I guess you didn’t read one of my several postings that I voted UCP.

    Anyway I’m not some kid. Over the years I’ve heard a lot of BS hyperbole from all politicians and see nothing wrong with making fun of their hollow promises, shallow innuendo and endless platitudes and double-speak.

    I had low expectations for the NDP and I have low expectations for the UCP so there won’t be any egotistical self-inflated attempts at “spiteful vengeance” from me. I’m just an anonymous poster on a near unknown thread posting words that will be buried in the masses of daily words accumulating out there. It’s nonsense to think anything I could write would extract even a modicum of “vengeance”.

    I however have to ask you why you are getting so emotional and touchy-feely over such babble? Is your tribe being picked on?
    Last edited by KC; 01-05-2019 at 10:13 AM.

  71. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    As the book closes on the NDP time in government (for now), more evidence that - despite the bad hand they were dealt and the unrelenting negative propaganda campaign by the UCP and its allies - their economic record was actually quite good.

    Statistics Canada reported today that Alberta's 2018 GDP growth was above the national average.

    In 2018, real gross domestic product (GDP) increased in nine provinces and in all territories. Real GDP declined in Newfoundland and Labrador. Nationally, real GDP by industry rose 2.0%.

    Among the provinces, the strongest growth occurred in Prince Edward Island (+2.6%), followed by Quebec (+2.5%), British Columbia (+2.4%), Alberta (+2.3%) and Ontario (+2.2%). Growth was below the national average in Saskatchewan (+1.6%), Manitoba (+1.3%) and Nova Scotia (+1.2%). New Brunswick real GDP edged up 0.1%.
    More details here:

    In Alberta, GDP advanced 2.3% in 2018 following the rebound of 4.6% in 2017. Goods-producing industries (+3.1%) and service-producing industries (+1.8%) contributed equally to total growth. The energy sector accounted for almost half of the total growth in the economy in 2018, despite the recent decline of oil prices and the widening price gap between West Texas Intermediate and Western Canadian Select.

    Mining, quarrying and oil and gas extraction increased 6.4%. Oil and gas extraction grew 7.9% due to strong growth from both oil sands extraction and oil and gas extraction. Support activities for oil and gas extraction rose 2.2% despite a decline in activity in the second half of the year after a strong start. Capacity constraints limited pipeline transportation to a 2.9% increase. Coal output fell 23.9%.

    https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail...90501a-eng.htm
    That’s interesting but any evaluation has to look a lot deeper. GDP is also a rather useless measure of how well a governing party is actually performing over time and for its citizens (for the worst off or say for the regular citizens.) Plus the legacy they create.

  72. #72
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    ^^ I don't believe you KC

  73. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    ^^ I don't believe you KC
    And why should you?

  74. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    As the book closes on the NDP time in government (for now), more evidence that - despite the bad hand they were dealt and the unrelenting negative propaganda campaign by the UCP and its allies - their economic record was actually quite good.

    Statistics Canada reported today that Alberta's 2018 GDP growth was above the national average.

    In 2018, real gross domestic product (GDP) increased in nine provinces and in all territories. Real GDP declined in Newfoundland and Labrador. Nationally, real GDP by industry rose 2.0%.

    Among the provinces, the strongest growth occurred in Prince Edward Island (+2.6%), followed by Quebec (+2.5%), British Columbia (+2.4%), Alberta (+2.3%) and Ontario (+2.2%). Growth was below the national average in Saskatchewan (+1.6%), Manitoba (+1.3%) and Nova Scotia (+1.2%). New Brunswick real GDP edged up 0.1%.
    More details here:

    In Alberta, GDP advanced 2.3% in 2018 following the rebound of 4.6% in 2017. Goods-producing industries (+3.1%) and service-producing industries (+1.8%) contributed equally to total growth. The energy sector accounted for almost half of the total growth in the economy in 2018, despite the recent decline of oil prices and the widening price gap between West Texas Intermediate and Western Canadian Select.

    Mining, quarrying and oil and gas extraction increased 6.4%. Oil and gas extraction grew 7.9% due to strong growth from both oil sands extraction and oil and gas extraction. Support activities for oil and gas extraction rose 2.2% despite a decline in activity in the second half of the year after a strong start. Capacity constraints limited pipeline transportation to a 2.9% increase. Coal output fell 23.9%.

    https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail...90501a-eng.htm

    I also agree with you, NDP did try and by and large did a decent job. Their failure, IMO, is on 2 accounts. One is simply communication. I never heard a convincing dialog on their deficit, how and when they think it will be eliminated etc. It provided a feeling, correct or not, they either don't care or don't have a plan.

    Second, is more fundamental problem. Alberta has not yet fully learned the uncomfortable truth that good days of high paying jobs in oilsands are gone. Not just due to pipeline issue. It is automation. It will take a couple years to sin in. But that's the unfortunate reality. Someone sent me this article a while back that really shook me:

    After 20 years in the oil-and-gas industry, Eric Neece was used to its booms and busts. He wasn’t surprised when he was laid off by GE Oil & Gas in Conroe, Texas, in 2015 after oil prices plummeted. He figured his job would come back when prices crept back up.
    He was almost right. The work came back. But Mr. Neece’s former job as a well logger—measuring well conditions thousands of feet underground—was gone. Those duties are increasingly being overseen remotely and handled by automation.
    ...
    The energy sector had been shielded from pressure to innovate by high oil prices. When prices fell 75% over 20 months beginning in 2014, oil and gas companies were finally forced to modernize to squeeze out profits. Many found they could use new technologies to do the work better and cheaper, with fewer people. They have invested billions of dollars on what the industry dubs “digital oil fields,” embracing artificial intelligence, automation and other technologies.

    Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/oils-ne...d=hp_lead_pos6

  75. #75

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    Great post!

    Agree on the communication failure and the debt. It was necessary given the lack of savings to prepare for a dip.

    The job loss article is also great. People look at these things from high and mighty locations and so can’t see those individuals suffering down below.

    Eg Free trade provides macro gains and individual gains to the winners. It decimates businesses, jobs, families, communities, and regions that find they don’t have a competitive advantage. Moreover, the uneven playing field and hidden state intervention can still wipe out sectors that did have a competitive advantage.

    Here in Alberta, taking that view of indifference, that top down macro view on some issues meant that those on the margin (businesses pushed to the edge etc) were pretty much ignored and lifelong dreams and endeavours were ruined and liquidated.

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    Listening to Horgan, something Kenney has said to him, has made him seem much happier (a little more open) ..he said Kenney had a good sense of humor, and they had a good conversation. .Horgan is really getting it from drivers on the BC coast..LOL. They sure pay big taxes on fuel there..
    Last edited by H.L.; 01-05-2019 at 04:21 PM.
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    Horgan said he spoke with Kenney by phone after the law was proclaimed. He said while it's "regrettable" the bill was activated, he respects Kenney's stand and thinks the two can work together to find common ground on the root cause of the dispute -- the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.
    "The conversation was quite cordial. We had some good laughs. He's got a sense of humour. That puts us in a good spot right off the bat," said Horgan.
    "He worked very hard to ascend to the position he's now and I don't believe he did so just to be combative."



    https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/b-c-...-cut-1.4403407

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  78. #78

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    Well it’s going to the courts so at least we’ll know more about the limits of provincial powers (like learning about marriage rights in a dysfunctional relationship).

  79. #79

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    Kenney has had cabinet level federal experience. In theory he knows what he is doing. Notley said today she has told Kenney about her reason of not proclaiming the bill. So Kenney must have a strategy here for going ahead with proclamation.

    As an aside, sometimes I think an unintended negative consequence of over 40 years of one party in power in Alberta, was the fact that the opposition never got to learn the ropes of federal and inter-provincial politics. So Notley, with the best of intentions, might have failed to get the pipeline to start, in part, just by lack of political experience.

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    I fail to see how Kenney's gambit in proclaiming the bill is good strategy. He runs the risk of weakening Alberta's bargaining position if the courts rule the bill unconstitutional before the punitive measures contained therein are even put in place.

    Notley was very skillful in getting the feds to not only approve the Trans Mountain expansion but later getting them to buy the existing pipeline when Kinder Morgan decided to abandon the expansion. The federal buyout is the only reason the expansion project is still alive. Construction on the expansion project actually began last summer only to be put on hold after the federal approval was quashed by the Federal Court of Appeal on August 30. Whether Kenney will be as skillful in dealing with the BC and federal governments remains to be seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Well it’s going to the courts so at least we’ll know more about the limits of provincial powers (like learning about marriage rights in a dysfunctional relationship).
    Why did, the now dead party decide there should be a bill12? Wth? If you aren't going to use it, or try and use it, why bother..gawd I'm glad they are gone! JT is smack in the middle.. LOL..
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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    I fail to see how Kenney's gambit in proclaiming the bill is good strategy. He runs the risk of weakening Alberta's bargaining position if the courts rule the bill unconstitutional before the punitive measures contained therein are even put in place.

    Notley was very skillful in getting the feds to not only approve the Trans Mountain expansion but later getting them to buy the existing pipeline when Kinder Morgan decided to abandon the expansion. The federal buyout is the only reason the expansion project is still alive. Construction on the expansion project actually began last summer only to be put on hold after the federal approval was quashed by the Federal Court of Appeal on August 30. Whether Kenney will be as skillful in dealing with the BC and federal governments remains to be seen.
    We own the pipeline, JT doesn't give a spit if it ever works
    Notley did nothing..nothing. She promised shovels in the ground twice, are there any? NO.
    Kenney will show you what skill is..just watch him!
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    ^haha delusional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    ^haha delusional.
    Me and over a million others..lol!
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  85. #85

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    Taps still open.

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post


    We own the pipeline, JT doesn't give a spit if it ever works
    Notley did nothing..nothing. She promised shovels in the ground twice, are there any? NO.
    Kenney will show you what skill is..just watch him!
    Actually, the federal government owns the pipeline. So if you're speaking for Canada, collectively, you're right. Of course, the election of Kenney has done nothing to alter that.

  86. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Well it’s going to the courts so at least we’ll know more about the limits of provincial powers (like learning about marriage rights in a dysfunctional relationship).
    Why did, the now dead party decide there should be a bill12? Wth? If you aren't going to use it, or try and use it, why bother..gawd I'm glad they are gone! JT is smack in the middle.. LOL..
    And why proclaim it into law if you aren’t going to use it? Plus give B.C. time to have it struck down in the courts before it’s ever used. Is it the UCP’s way to determine what its powers actually are? Baby steps? Or is it all just an instant replay of the NDP’s approach?






    Watch the video. On this issue in 10 seconds in this article’s video he makes a very clear introductory statement that naturally became the sound bite on this issue.

    Verbatim below. Take a listen. Note the action words and the scripting if this comment. Will be to proclaim into law... then note the reporting of it below. Nothing about more of the same, more talk, talk, talk...



    “...will be to proclaim into law Bill 12 to turn off the taps”.


    He did not say Bill twelve to potentially turn off the taps.
    Or to allow us to turn off the taps.

    No. Instead, on this issue the UCP portrayed themselves as the party that would do what the NDP were afraid to do.



    Alberta UCP leader Jason Kenney threatens to cut off B.C.’s gas supply

    The leader of Alberta’s United Conservative Party says if he’s elected premier, he’ll restrict gasoline shipments to B.C., driving up the price even more.
    Keith Baldrey reports on how the B.C. government is preparing for the possibility.


    https://globalnews.ca/video/5149276/...c-s-gas-supply
    Last edited by KC; 02-05-2019 at 06:43 AM.

  87. #87

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    Which is exactly the reason that the NDP didn't proclaim it. BC tried to take it court when it was introduced and the court said that it wasn't in effect so there was no standing. That has now changed.

    It's like having a gun. You don't get in trouble when it's in your holster but if you point it at someone you're facing charges.

  88. #88

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    Talk, talk, talk, talk...

    Jason Kenney the new Notley.




    Can Alberta really ‘turn off the taps’ to B.C.? Here’s what we know about Jason Kenney’s plan | National Post

    “Among them was Kenney’s promise to “turn off the taps” to British Columbia. He vowed to proclaim legislation into law that would enable him to squeeze the supply of oil and gas going into B.C.,...”


    https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...-would-it-work


    We will turn off the taps: Kenney
    | Sylvan Lake News

    “He told the crowd of a couple hundred that the piece of legislation introduced by Premier Rachel Notley had not been turned into a law because she had “no intention of using it.”

    “The very first measure taken by a United Conservative cabinet, on day one that we are sworn in, in the first hour after being sworn in, we will proclaim into full force and effect the turn off the taps legislation,” Kenney said to the loud cheers of his supporters.


    ...”

    https://www.sylvanlakenews.com/provi...e-taps-kenney/


    Kenney now says he won't 'turn off the taps' to B.C., yet

    “EDMONTON – Despite promises to “turn off the taps” to B.C., Alberta’s new premier has confirmed his government will pursue a more diplomatic route first.”


    https://edmonton.citynews.ca/2019/04...ps-to-b-c-yet/


    Bolding is mine. However the BOLD innuendo of immediate cuts and implied promise to actually cut off BC were Jason Kenney’s - to get people to vote for him.




    Note that Peter Lougheed actually did cut supply. And Notley actually cut production.
    Last edited by KC; 02-05-2019 at 08:48 AM.

  89. #89

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    The day after the 2019 election, massive amounts of capital began flooding the province. . BOE Report of 2020 - Josh Groberman ?





    Alberta's oil and gas industry has suffered deeply under the NDP | BOE Report
    April 15, 2019 7:20 AM Josh Groberman



    “...Since day one of their governorship, Alberta’s oil and gas industry has suffered deeply–it will likely go down as the worst 4 years in the sector’s history.

    Capital fled and did not return

    The day after the 2015 election, massive amounts of capital began fleeing the province. “



    “Over the next 4 years, investment fell year after year. Compared to 2015 when $75 billion was invested in Alberta, 2016, 17 and 18 saw only $60 billion in capital spending. If spending had held from 2015, Alberta would have had an additional $45 billion of capital in this province.”

    https://boereport.com/2019/04/15/alb...under-the-ndp/



    https://www.cfr.org/content/crude_oil_prices1.jpg





    Alberta and the oil crash, 1 year later

    12 months ago, oil was trading at $106 US a barrel. How has Alberta survived the crash, so far?

    Tracy Johnson - CBC News, June 26, 2015




    “OPEC's decision to stand pat sent the oil market, which was already slumping due to oversupply, into freefall, with the price of WTI eventually bottoming out at around $42 a barrel in March.

    Since then, Alberta's economy has been sending mixed messages. Tens of billions of dollars of energy investment has been cancelled. The energy industry collectively lost $600 million in the first three months of 2015. There are 25,000 fewer jobs in the oilpatch.

    On the flip side, housing prices are stable, overall employment is up, and, for some reason, people are still moving to the province.

    It raises the question — just what is going on in Alberta?

    Migration momentum

    In the first three months of 2015, right in the depths of the oil crash, 9,000 people moved to Alberta, 8,000 from other parts of Canada.

    It may not be the right time to be coming to Alberta, but it is not surprising to Robert Kavcic, a senior economist at BMO Capital Markets.

    "It takes a little bit of time for people to respond to the shock," said Kavcic. "Even if ...”


    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/alb...ater-1.3126945




    Last edited by KC; 02-05-2019 at 09:14 AM.

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    Dont even need to “turn the taps off”. Just proclaim a law stating Alberta is to hold a strategic reserve in the province and effective immediately all hydrocarbon shipments must be directed to said strategic reserve instead of down the pipelines.

    Accomplish the same thing, plus alberta can make a little extra money when they sell the hydrocarbons after prices skyrocket.

    Either which way this plays out, its good to see someone has the backbone to standup to Ottawa and JT just like Peter Lougheed did to Ottawa and PT.

  91. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post
    Dont even need to “turn the taps off”. Just proclaim a law stating Alberta is to hold a strategic reserve in the province and effective immediately all hydrocarbon shipments must be directed to said strategic reserve instead of down the pipelines.

    Accomplish the same thing, plus alberta can make a little extra money when they sell the hydrocarbons after prices skyrocket.

    Either which way this plays out, its good to see someone has the backbone to standup to Ottawa and JT just like Peter Lougheed did to Ottawa and PT.
    UCP - United Conservative Posturing party

    The Queen is dead, long live the King

    Talk, talk, talk, talk...

    We will turn off the taps: Kenney | Sylvan Lake News


    “UCP Leader Jason Kenney held a rally on a ranch just outside Sylvan Lake on April 8 where he said he plans to “turn off the taps” to B.C. if elected. ”His promises to the large crowd of supporters included ...

    “The crowd was loud and responsive, chanting and cheering the party leader’s name
    when he announced his plan to “turn off the taps” if elected.

    He told the crowd of a couple hundred that the piece of legislation introduced by Premier Rachel Notley had not been turned into a law because she had “no intention of using it.”

    “The very first measure taken by a United Conservative cabinet, on day one that we are sworn in, in the first hour after being sworn in, we will proclaim into full force and effect the turn off the taps legislation,” Kenney said to the loud cheers of his supporters.

    ...”


    https://www.sylvanlakenews.com/provi...e-taps-kenney/
    Last edited by KC; 02-05-2019 at 09:28 AM.

  92. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post
    Dont even need to “turn the taps off”. Just proclaim a law stating Alberta is to hold a strategic reserve in the province and effective immediately all hydrocarbon shipments must be directed to said strategic reserve instead of down the pipelines.

    Accomplish the same thing, plus alberta can make a little extra money when they sell the hydrocarbons after prices skyrocket.

    Either which way this plays out, its good to see someone has the backbone to standup to Ottawa and JT just like Peter Lougheed did to Ottawa and PT.
    Yes it's great see Kenney proclaiming a Notley thing into law, and then not following up on his promise to shut off the taps. Just like Notley, Kenney has no intention of ever using it.

  93. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post
    Dont even need to “turn the taps off”. Just proclaim a law stating Alberta is to hold a strategic reserve in the province and effective immediately all hydrocarbon shipments must be directed to said strategic reserve instead of down the pipelines.

    Accomplish the same thing, plus alberta can make a little extra money when they sell the hydrocarbons after prices skyrocket.

    Either which way this plays out, its good to see someone has the backbone to standup to Ottawa and JT just like Peter Lougheed did to Ottawa and PT.
    Considering that we don't have storage and that we don't have the pipelines to get our current production out to markets let alone liquidating a reserve if prices rise, this scheme would be completely counter-productive and would hurt no one but ourselves.
    There can only be one.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    I fail to see how Kenney's gambit in proclaiming the bill is good strategy. He runs the risk of weakening Alberta's bargaining position if the courts rule the bill unconstitutional before the punitive measures contained therein are even put in place.

    Notley was very skillful in getting the feds to not only approve the Trans Mountain expansion but later getting them to buy the existing pipeline when Kinder Morgan decided to abandon the expansion. The federal buyout is the only reason the expansion project is still alive. Construction on the expansion project actually began last summer only to be put on hold after the federal approval was quashed by the Federal Court of Appeal on August 30. Whether Kenney will be as skillful in dealing with the BC and federal governments remains to be seen.
    We own the pipeline, JT doesn't give a spit if it ever works
    Notley did nothing..nothing. She promised shovels in the ground twice, are there any? NO.
    Kenney will show you what skill is..just watch him!
    Repeating the same falsehood over and over again doesn't make it true.

    Shovels were in the ground last summer as the following construction update from Trans Mountain makes clear:

    The Federal Court of Appeal decision issued on August 30, 2018 cancels the Order-in-Council, which had approved a Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity (CPCN) for the Expansion Project.

    As a result of the decision, Trans Mountain is winding down in-field construction activities in a safe, secure and environmentally appropriate manner. Learn more about the activities underway here.

    https://www.transmountain.com/genera...y:882#timeline

    Had the court decision gone the other way, which was widely expected at the time given that every other court decision to that point had gone in favour of the project, construction would have continued through the fall, winter and spring.

    The court of appeal decision to cancel the federal approval likely toasted the Notley government's re-election hopes because it allowed her political opponents to falsely claim she failed to get a pipeline built to tidewater.

    The Notley's government's re-election would have almost certainly meant that Trans Mountain construction would have started up again this summer. With the election of a belligerent UCP government who knows.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post
    Dont even need to “turn the taps off”. Just proclaim a law stating Alberta is to hold a strategic reserve in the province and effective immediately all hydrocarbon shipments must be directed to said strategic reserve instead of down the pipelines.

    Accomplish the same thing, plus alberta can make a little extra money when they sell the hydrocarbons after prices skyrocket.

    Either which way this plays out, its good to see someone has the backbone to standup to Ottawa and JT just like Peter Lougheed did to Ottawa and PT.
    Considering that we don't have storage and that we don't have the pipelines to get our current production out to markets let alone liquidating a reserve if prices rise, this scheme would be completely counter-productive and would hurt no one but ourselves.
    The storage part isn’t true. Alberta has underground caverns that we have been using for years to store natural gas and oil once it’s been produced from a Well. Even during the curtailment, certain oil companies were not slowing down production and instead filling these storage caverns with the excess oil they could not legally ship.

  96. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    The day after the 2019 election, massive amounts of capital began flooding the province. . BOE Report of 2020 - Josh Groberman ?
    I wonder if he'll remember things like this:
    https://globalnews.ca/news/5228199/p...ling-forecast/

    or this:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...down-1.5119125
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post
    Dont even need to “turn the taps off”. Just proclaim a law stating Alberta is to hold a strategic reserve in the province and effective immediately all hydrocarbon shipments must be directed to said strategic reserve instead of down the pipelines.

    Accomplish the same thing, plus alberta can make a little extra money when they sell the hydrocarbons after prices skyrocket.

    Either which way this plays out, its good to see someone has the backbone to standup to Ottawa and JT just like Peter Lougheed did to Ottawa and PT.
    Considering that we don't have storage and that we don't have the pipelines to get our current production out to markets let alone liquidating a reserve if prices rise, this scheme would be completely counter-productive and would hurt no one but ourselves.
    The storage part isn’t true. Alberta has underground caverns that we have been using for years to store natural gas and oil once it’s been produced from a Well. Even during the curtailment, certain oil companies were not slowing down production and instead filling these storage caverns with the excess oil they could not legally ship.
    Further to that point, we don’t necessarily have to build new storage site or drill new salt caverns to create the underground storage sites, but instead buy the oil and natural gas from the producers and have them hold it in their storage sites.

    One thing Alberta should start doing though is building their own strategic reserve storage facility to be able to control the price of oil by either flooding the market or starving it.

  98. #98

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    That’s a whole lot more government interference which is exactly what the UCP rallied against. The cutting off supply and somehow cutting off out portion of equalization funding is more like the UCP approach. More government vs government than telling industry what to do.

    The main thing is that Alberta now has an experienced politician in place with more than opposition experience. A guy that has already publicly provided a deadline which is 9 months away. Probably only 7 or 8 months until an order has to be given to “cut off BC”

    “we will give them a carbon-free Vancouver by 2020.” - Jason Kenney
    Last edited by KC; 02-05-2019 at 09:45 AM.

  99. #99

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    Kenney’s dealt with more businesses than the “experts” ever have. The “cut off” is coming.


    Kenney’s threat to ‘turn off the taps’ to B.C. ‘doesn’t make any business sense:’ experts | Globalnews.ca

    “Experts are questioning United Conservative Party (UCP) Leader and Premier-designate Jason Kenney’s pledge to “turn off the taps” of gasoline to B.C.

    At a campaign rally in Edmonton on the last Friday before the province’s election, Kenney renewed his promise to “turn off the taps” of gasoline “within an hour” of being sworn in
    as Alberta premier in response to previous promises made by Vancouver Mayor Kennedy Stewart to achieve a carbon-free Vancouver by 2040.

    ...”

    https://globalnews.ca/news/5172942/j...n-pipeline-bc/
    Bolding mine

  100. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post
    Dont even need to “turn the taps off”. Just proclaim a law stating Alberta is to hold a strategic reserve in the province and effective immediately all hydrocarbon shipments must be directed to said strategic reserve instead of down the pipelines.

    Accomplish the same thing, plus alberta can make a little extra money when they sell the hydrocarbons after prices skyrocket.

    Either which way this plays out, its good to see someone has the backbone to standup to Ottawa and JT just like Peter Lougheed did to Ottawa and PT.
    Considering that we don't have storage and that we don't have the pipelines to get our current production out to markets let alone liquidating a reserve if prices rise, this scheme would be completely counter-productive and would hurt no one but ourselves.
    The storage part isn’t true. Alberta has underground caverns that we have been using for years to store natural gas and oil once it’s been produced from a Well. Even during the curtailment, certain oil companies were not slowing down production and instead filling these storage caverns with the excess oil they could not legally ship.
    https://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/new...orage-capacity

    Salt caverns have to be constructed, which takes years. There are some in alberta but it's a small portion of our oil storage. If you belive such a liberal environmentalist source as oilsands magazine then we have storage for roughly 20 days of production (3.68million barrels per day this month), and I have to believe that it's not all empty.
    There can only be one.

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