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Thread: Battle of Alberta? Edmonton holds all the CRE cards

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    Default Battle of Alberta? Edmonton holds all the CRE cards

    Battle of Alberta? Edmonton holds all the CRE cards

    Don Wilcox | Property Biz Canada | 2018-05-17

    https://renx.ca/battle-alberta-edmon...lds-cre-cards/
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    Not revealing the headline's acronym's actual words even once in the article is a poor practice in writing. Feel free to tell me what it means.

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    Commercial Real Estate
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    what a bunch of fluff.

    Headline: Downtown Edmonton continues to shamelessly pillage businesses from other parts of Edmonton to move downtown.
    Last edited by Medwards; 18-05-2018 at 12:11 PM. Reason: edited to remove some of the jab.

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    That's because the DBA wants the right to veto any project that they feel has the slightest chance of someone moving out of downtown.

    They're not interested in the city at large unless something is located downtown. Everything must be located downtown or it's a crisis of biblical proportions.

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    ^ ^^

    you don't know when to drop a petty feud do you?

    wilcox has been doing this stuff since before peter mercer was executive director of the dba and whether you think this piece is "in depth" enough or not has nothing to do with IanO who simply posted the link.

    i don't mind critizing IanO when i think it's appropriate - just as i don't mind criticizing anyone else, individual or institution when i think it's warranted but i hope i do that in a constructive manner not out of petty personal spite.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Commercial Real Estate
    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    ^ ^^

    you don't know when to drop a petty feud do you?

    wilcox has been doing this stuff since before peter mercer was executive director of the dba and whether you think this piece is "in depth" enough or not has nothing to do with IanO who simply posted the link.

    i don't mind critizing IanO when i think it's appropriate - just as i don't mind criticizing anyone else, individual or institution when i think it's warranted but i hope i do that in a constructive manner not out of petty personal spite.
    Seeing as I don't know IanO, it's only personal because the group he's a spokesman for is putting their beliefs up against what's best for the rest of the people in the city and the northern half of the province. As long as they're advocating against the superlab, I'll be advocating against them. Anyone who thinks that my families health is worth less than lining the DBA's pockets is not someone I'd want to know personally.

    And, as Medwards said, they have no problem poaching businesses from other parts of the city.

    Of course, as your project falls within the DBA boundaries, you're helping to pay to advocate for keeping the lab downtown as well through the BIA tax. Feel like that will be a good use of your dollars?

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    You obviously don’t understand the power of agglomeration. Two people working together are more productive than working apart. Industries cluster to share resources and keep abreast of the competition. Economic development is not a charity spreading the wealth equally that is a recipe for stagnation.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    I have no objection to the DBA attracting businesses to the core. However, the lab is not a regular sort of business. It's part of the health care system and the new lab will be a major plus for over 2 million people. Keeping it in the podium downtown is not part of economic development.

    Move the lab and, here's a thought, attract businesses that will not only fill the space but will actually add some life to what is a dead stretch of downtown.

    I'd love to see downtown flourish but not at the expense of the health of Albertans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    ^ ^^

    you don't know when to drop a petty feud do you?

    wilcox has been doing this stuff since before peter mercer was executive director of the dba and whether you think this piece is "in depth" enough or not has nothing to do with IanO who simply posted the link.

    i don't mind critizing IanO when i think it's appropriate - just as i don't mind criticizing anyone else, individual or institution when i think it's warranted but i hope i do that in a constructive manner not out of petty personal spite.
    Seeing as I don't know IanO, it's only personal because the group he's a spokesman for is putting their beliefs up against what's best for the rest of the people in the city and the northern half of the province. As long as they're advocating against the superlab, I'll be advocating against them. Anyone who thinks that my families health is worth less than lining the DBA's pockets is not someone I'd want to know personally.

    And, as Medwards said, they have no problem poaching businesses from other parts of the city.

    Of course, as your project falls within the DBA boundaries, you're helping to pay to advocate for keeping the lab downtown as well through the BIA tax. Feel like that will be a good use of your dollars?
    you do know you don't have to take over every damn thread in the forum as a personal soap box to say the same things over and over and over don't you?

    silly me... obviously not. after 7,915 posts and counting i should probably know better.

    as for what is or isn't a good use of my tax dollars, there's a lot more of my tax dollars pi$$ed away daily in far greater sums with far greater frequency than the occasional dba position that i happen to disagree with.
    Last edited by kcantor; 18-05-2018 at 03:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    You obviously don’t understand the power of agglomeration. Two people working together are more productive than working apart. Industries cluster to share resources and keep abreast of the competition. Economic development is not a charity spreading the wealth equally that is a recipe for stagnation.
    Yes fair enough, but downtown isn't our only cluster, nor should it be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Battle of Alberta? Edmonton holds all the CRE cards

    Don Wilcox | Property Biz Canada | 2018-05-17

    https://renx.ca/battle-alberta-edmon...lds-cre-cards/
    How’s this any different that the late 1980s? Calgary has a huge oil sector component to it and when oil prices change its downtown vacancy rate changes. Sometimes it looks better than Edmonton and sometimes worse. When the oil prices tank, Calgary suffers while Edmonton moderates, then when the provincial government switches into post “fiscal stimulus” - debt pay down mode, Edmonton just switches positions with Calgary.


    As for the DBA - they have an agenda and vested interests and interests that align with some very common, political and ideological beliefs about what “desirable” cities are supposed to look like. Nothing wrong with that.

    As for poaching - yes - and they aren’t alone. Its just one more of those common self-serving realities we all face.
    Last edited by KC; 18-05-2018 at 02:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    You obviously don’t understand the power of agglomeration. Two people working together are more productive than working apart. Industries cluster to share resources and keep abreast of the competition. Economic development is not a charity spreading the wealth equally that is a recipe for stagnation.
    Yes fair enough, but downtown isn't our only cluster, nor should it be.
    There is barely enough commerce in the city to support one cluster downtown let alone multiple clusters. When and if it gets to the point where multiple clusters emerge business will determine where it will go which will not necessarily be in the neighbourhood you think is deserving.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    I've met a few people who have moved up from Calgary to work here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    You obviously don’t understand the power of agglomeration. Two people working together are more productive than working apart. Industries cluster to share resources and keep abreast of the competition. Economic development is not a charity spreading the wealth equally that is a recipe for stagnation.
    Yes fair enough, but downtown isn't our only cluster, nor should it be.
    But it's where tenants want to be. I'll let you tell me what 'incentives' the City and DBA are offering businesses to relocate downtown....ZERO. Landlords, which are private businesses, determine what they need to do to attract tenants to their buildings - and that goes for EVERY part of the city and region. So you can stop with your typical targeted assault on downtown.

  17. #17

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    Jasper avenue sidewalk "improvements" are specifically said by the city that they are intended to attract people downtown and support local businesses. The numerous versions of Churchill Square were for the same. As was the new arena. And the streetscape improvements to 108 st. The incentives don't have to be direct to the businesses in order for them to be an incentive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Jasper avenue sidewalk "improvements" are specifically said by the city that they are intended to attract people downtown and support local businesses. The numerous versions of Churchill Square were for the same. As was the new arena. And the streetscape improvements to 108 st. The incentives don't have to be direct to the businesses in order for them to be an incentive.
    and the city does the same on whyte avenue and 124 street and stoney plain road and 118 avenue and chinatown/little italy and gateway boulevard and oliver’s promenade... all of which would mean your point is what exactly? they might be incentives in an indirect way if you consider having attractive streetscapes a business incentive and not just part of building a liveable city throughout the city including downtown.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    "Battle of Alberta? Edmonton holds all the CRE cards"

    Piece of good news for the City, instead all the crybabies come out and whine about downtown, make personal attacks on individuals, and generally say how bad everything is. Sad to see.

  20. #20

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    Not to the same degree as they do downtown. How many millions have been spend on the various versions of Churchill Square? How much for the AGA or the library? How many millions of tax dollars going to the arena as part of the CRL? When's the last time that sort of money was spent on 124 st or Whyte? And the Jasper avenue sidewalks are how many millions per block?

    To claim that downtown gets just the same attention as 124 street is laughable. How can you say that it's part of building a liveable city when Downtown gets more than it's fair share? It's directed specifically at singling out Downtown for special attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    You obviously don’t understand the power of agglomeration. Two people working together are more productive than working apart. Industries cluster to share resources and keep abreast of the competition. Economic development is not a charity spreading the wealth equally that is a recipe for stagnation.
    Yes fair enough, but downtown isn't our only cluster, nor should it be.
    There is barely enough commerce in the city to support one cluster downtown let alone multiple clusters. When and if it gets to the point where multiple clusters emerge business will determine where it will go which will not necessarily be in the neighbourhood you think is deserving.
    Are you aware that the population of Edmonton is now larger than the population of London, UK, at the turn of the 19th century? And, larger than most cities throughout the course of human history? To say that there is "barely enough" commerce is just completely false. When we look across the arc of history we can see the truth that Edmonton is a large city well on its way to becoming a very large city... certainly commerce is what drives the expansion and supports the present population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Not to the same degree as they do downtown. How many millions have been spend on the various versions of Churchill Square? How much for the AGA or the library? How many millions of tax dollars going to the arena as part of the CRL? When's the last time that sort of money was spent on 124 st or Whyte? And the Jasper avenue sidewalks are how many millions per block?

    To claim that downtown gets just the same attention as 124 street is laughable. How can you say that it's part of building a liveable city when Downtown gets more than it's fair share? It's directed specifically at singling out Downtown for special attention.
    you do hate to be wrong don’t you? first you’re shown to be wrong and then it doesn’t matter because you’re not wrong by a matter of degree? let’s see you move the goalposts yet again...

    of those taxes that are spent across the city, more of them - by a long shot - come from downtown as an area and as an area it’s one of the smallest.

    downtown as an area has the highest number of “visitors” from all other areas of the city both during the day and after hours making use of and enjoying those “downtown” improvements.

    as much as you don’t like it, they’re not downtown amenities, they’re city amenities. as for what they cost, i’m not even sure when you look at the cost of rec centres and transit facilities etc. that downtown even gets it’s share, never mind more, of the city’s spending pie.

    but feel free to just see what you want to be there. you’re well practiced in that art.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  23. #23

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    Funny but I thought that taxes were supposed to support the residents of the city. When the people downtown are clamoring for more city spending and claiming that "They're city amenities", how many people actually go there, other than the people that live there. Sure, people will go to the arena but they also went to Northlands. And the arena also includes a "community rink." Or doesn't that count towards a rec centre? The city also provided funding for the downtown YMCA, or doesn't that count either?

    And what you call "visitors", everyone else calls "workers" and the vast majority of them head out of downtown as soon as work is done.

    So, to you, the city should spend millions building things downtown that other parts of the city either don't gt at all or get funded at a lower rate because we should be working on attracting more people downtown. And then, because there's more people downtown, we should fund even more?

    Should the city spend more in Glenora as opposed to McCauley because they collect more taxes from the former? Should we spend tax dollars for parks and nice sidewalks in the industrial areas since they're major sources of tax dollars as well?

    Or is Downtown and it's residents just so special that they should be able to claim the lions share of taxes collected in their area? After all, the arena CRL ensures that the taxes from new projects MUST be spent downtown and downtown alone.

    Meanwhile, there's a call out to city hall to subsidize a grocery store downtown because a half kilometer walk is too far. City hall already has responded that someone will be looking into the idea.

    There's a call for more park space downtown even though the DBA touts Louise McKinney Riverfront Park yet their spokesman says that shouldn't count as downtown because it's too far out of the way.


    - Be heavily involved in major Council initiatives such as Catalyst projects, Bike Lanes, Louise McKinney Riverfront Park and Sir Winston Churchill Square redevelopment projects;

    - Work with the City of Edmonton’s Planning Department on streetscape beautification projects like 104th Street Promenade, the Capital Boulevard Project, and the reclaiming of Jasper Avenue as Edmonton’s main boulevard.

    http://www.edmontondowntown.com/down...s-association/

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    You obviously don’t understand the power of agglomeration. Two people working together are more productive than working apart. Industries cluster to share resources and keep abreast of the competition. Economic development is not a charity spreading the wealth equally that is a recipe for stagnation.
    Yes fair enough, but downtown isn't our only cluster, nor should it be.
    There is barely enough commerce in the city to support one cluster downtown let alone multiple clusters. When and if it gets to the point where multiple clusters emerge business will determine where it will go which will not necessarily be in the neighbourhood you think is deserving.
    Are you aware that the population of Edmonton is now larger than the population of London, UK, at the turn of the 19th century? And, larger than most cities throughout the course of human history? To say that there is "barely enough" commerce is just completely false. When we look across the arc of history we can see the truth that Edmonton is a large city well on its way to becoming a very large city... certainly commerce is what drives the expansion and supports the present population.
    Two hundred years ago the city of London had only one business cluster the original Roman city within the walls affectionately known as “The City”. It wasn’t until recently other business clusters started emerged as space became non existent and cost became astronomical. The new clusters such as Kings Cross, Canary Wharf and the newly emerging Battersea Seven Elms district are adjacent to or within a reasonable proximity of The City. They are not on the end of the Metropolitan line at Amersham or Watford. Our equivalent would be Oliver or Whyte Avenue not Windermere just because Medwards lives close by. So by your reckoning we will be in a position to spin off new business clusters in about 200 years.
    It is time to stop all this petty bickering and get behind a business model that works instead of playing political correctness games of trying to give a little bit to everyone and invest in a proven strategy.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    ^^

    i see you’re still looking for a fixed line to plant those goalposts on...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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