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Thread: Swoop Airlines | Discussion

  1. #1
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    Default Swoop Airlines | Discussion

    WestJet Airlines Ltd. began selling tickets for its ultra low-cost carrier Swoop on Thursday, announcing that the airline will offer flights from Abbotsford, Hamilton, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Halifax when it starts flying in June.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/transportation/westjet-begins-selling-tickets-some-for-0-for-its-ultra-low-cost-carrier-swoop/wcm/560fe781-88d4-4b54-987e-08d49b3224ff
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    Interesting! It does not say, but it implies Edmonton is a hub as i dont see Calgary in that picture. Going for Flare!

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    Well, if the intent is to destroy Flair, and it clearly is, then WS will want Swoop where Flair is and not bother where Flair isn't.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Exactly. ...and this even puts more credibility of a Swoop/Flair merger/acquisition...
    President and CEO - Airshow.

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    Still not sure how Westjet can aggressively ramp up Swoop without cannibalizing their mainline routes unless they can really differentiate the two products and make Westjet more of a premium full service airline. However, I don't see how the market is big enough to accommodate a premium mainline Westjet and ULCC Swoop. Air Canada has tried several times to launch a low cost airline but they also ran into the same problem. Maybe those that know more about the airline business can provide some insight into how this might work. Are there other examples of a mainline carrier launching a successful ULCC in a geographically large country with a low population?

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    Default Swoop launches service on sold-out flight from Edmonton

    “This, along with Edmonton International Airport Authority’s support, has meant that we’ve chosen Edmonton as our second operational base. Swoop, as an Alberta-born organization, is thrilled to be in Edmonton as a second home and looks forward to providing more flight choices as well as the economic benefits that air service provides in the form of jobs, tourism and connecting economies.”
    https://www.skiesmag.com/press-releases/swoop-launches-service-on-sold-out-flight-from-edmonton/
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    Very good news and interesting given other recent happenings...
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    Anyone know if there's going to be any relation between Westjet's rewards program and Swoop?
    IE, can one use their WJ dollars to buy tix on Swoop? Or pay for the extra fees.

    I'm sure you won't be able to collect points on Swoop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Exactly. ...and this even puts more credibility of a Swoop/Flair merger/acquisition...
    Im thinking merger as well but with Canadian North or Cariboo North; perhaps both? Long yerm, align with Porter for a solid third?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Exactly. ...and this even puts more credibility of a Swoop/Flair merger/acquisition...
    Im thinking merger as well but with Canadian North or Cariboo North; perhaps both? Long yerm, align with Porter for a solid third?
    not going to happen. Why would Canadian North Cariboo North risk everything when they have carved a niche market for themselves?
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    Swoop routes https://www.flyswoop.com/
    Flair routes https://flairair.ca/travel-info/flair-air-route-map/ Far more options with Flair....
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

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    Swoop is authorized to offer "a scheduled international service, large aircraft, between Canada and Jamaica, Mexico, Dominican Republic and Cuba".

    https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2018-a-127

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    Both Las Vegas and Mesa have been "swooped". Not that bad really, actually switching four routes from mainline to Swoop has netted 3396 seats per week.

    Abbotsford +5 flights, +1512 seats
    2017/18: 13 weekly (6x 737, 6x 738, 1x Q400)
    2018/19: 18 weekly


    Hamilton +7 flights, +1543 seats
    2017/18: 4 weekly (737)
    2018/19: 11 weekly


    Las Vegas -1 flight, +97 seats
    2017/18: 12 weekly (1x 737, 11x 738 )
    2018/19: 11 weekly


    Mesa +1 flight, +244 seats
    2017/18: 1 weekly (737)
    2018/19: 2 weekly

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    Hmmmm.....the Trophy had us booked to LV in October via Westjet - now it's via Swoop in lieu of Westjet - EXCEPT now it pit stops in Shitkicker town instead of direct?!!!! Were we told this? I thought the service would be the same NOT worse! I'm done with that whole outfit - gonna tell her to book us on Alaska via Sea like we always do.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Hmmmm.....the Trophy had us booked to LV in October via Westjet - now it's via Swoop in lieu of Westjet - EXCEPT now it pit stops in Shitkicker town instead of direct?!!!! Were we told this? I thought the service would be the same NOT worse! I'm done with that whole outfit - gonna tell her to book us on Alaska via Sea like we always do.....
    Swoop is non-stop.

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    Not in October it ain't.....

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    WATCH: Swoop Airlines, which is owned by WestJet, announced routes to Las Vegas from Edmonton. But that means WestJet service to Sin City will be cut, leaving some upset travellers. Vinesh Pratap reports.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4367072/s...-destinations/

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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Not in October it ain't.....
    Yes it is.

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    Certainly gives one pause on the benefits of the Westjet loyalty program and the Westjet Mastercard if this happens to too many routes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Hmmmm.....the Trophy had us booked to LV in October via Westjet - now it's via Swoop in lieu of Westjet - EXCEPT now it pit stops in Shitkicker town instead of direct?!!!! Were we told this? I thought the service would be the same NOT worse! I'm done with that whole outfit - gonna tell her to book us on Alaska via Sea like we always do.....
    The Trophy?!

    Wow....

    Disgusting.

  21. #21

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    I bet he calls her his "trophy" for the same reason I endearingly call my wife my trophy - she is the most beautiful woman I have ever met, and I treat her like gold.

    What's "disgusting" is you looking down your nose at people, your holier-than-thou moral judgment and your faux outrage.

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    Yep. It's a play on the 'trophy wife' trope, but in a self-depricating way. He's not actually calling her a shiny possession that exists only for him to admire. Outrage not required.

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    Garner Andrews has been using that facetiously on Sonic for 10+ years. Sheesh.

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    Not being able to use WestJet dollars, companion tickets and baggage perks is a real shame. It truly does diminish the Vegas flight. I am surprised we are losing the main line flight

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    Westjet=Calgary.
    Calgary=**** Edmonton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K364 View Post
    Westjet=Calgary.
    Calgary=**** Edmonton.
    **** Westjet.

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    Hello Flair!!
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Looking through what the Ultra Low-Cost Carriers offer, Flair looks better than Swoop. And it looks like they will directly compete with each other here in Edmonton (good for Edmonton flyers).

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    "Beware that Swoop just raised the price of checked bags by $5 after recently as much as doubling seat assignment fees! (from another website Skyscraper)"

    Someone has to subsidize the WestJet collective agreements - so let it be Swoop passengers. They can't take the baggage away from the WS MasterCards or people will scream. On a flight to YYZ - Swoop is at least 25% more per seating booking than Flair when looking at the published rates today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Hello Flair!!
    Indeed.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

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    Letter to the Editor in Saturday's Edmonton Journal:

    Less than thrilled with no-frills flight

    I just flew with Swoop from Edmonton to Hamilton return. I am not the type to complain, but I thought people should know what to expect.

    You pay for everything: carry-on bags (unless very small), all checked bags, seat selection, if you want to be together, and $4 for water.

    The initial price for our tickets was just over $200 but by the time we paid all the extras, we ended up paying $850.

    After I selected seats and paid so we could be together, they moved my husband several seats back. He was moved to an exit row with more room. I was left to hug the wall with a very big guy beside me. In the row they sat my husband there was an extra seat, so we asked if I could move there. We were told that I could not because I had not paid for the exit row. Neither had my husband, but they had no trouble putting him there for some strange reason of their own.

    When I complained about this treatment, I was told that, as they are a “no-frills” airline, they would do nothing for me. I guess “no frills” means that even common courtesy is in short supply.
    M.K. Warner, Edmonton

    https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/...with-no-frills

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Hello Flair!!
    Indeed.
    All in the family right
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Hello Flair!!
    Indeed.
    All in the family right
    Absolutely. I have saved thousands over AC and WJ where I fly.The folks at Swoop/ Westjet had better get their poop in a group if they plan to stay in this party.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Hmmmm.....the Trophy had us booked to LV in October via Westjet - now it's via Swoop in lieu of Westjet - EXCEPT now it pit stops in Shitkicker town instead of direct?!!!! Were we told this? I thought the service would be the same NOT worse! I'm done with that whole outfit - gonna tell her to book us on Alaska via Sea like we always do.....
    I had booked Westjet direct to LAS in November. They tried to rebook me via Vancouver outbound and Calgary on the way back. Thanks Westjet, I will have a refund please and am now booked to fly via Seattle. If Westjet change PHX to Swoop they will be dead to me!
    Edmonton, Capital of Alberta

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    Swoop is adding 4x weekly YEG-YWG.

    This is in addition to double daily mainline service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    Swoop is adding 4x weekly YEG-YWG.

    This is in addition to double daily mainline service.
    Won't change my mind.....
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    Default Swoop cancels dozens of flights to U.S., leaving passengers scrambling

    Discount airline Swoop has cancelled 24 flights to the U.S. as it waits for regulatory approval from the country.
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4572052/swoop-us-flights-cancelled/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Discount airline Swoop has cancelled 24 flights to the U.S. as it waits for regulatory approval from the country.
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4572052/swoop-us-flights-cancelled/

    Good thing WestJet brought back those YEG-LAS flights.

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    Come on Flair!
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Flair - yes.

    Still, Swoop being a child of WestJet, I'm shocked at this amateur mistake. Doesn't bode well.
    ... gobsmacked

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    No it does not.

    ^^
    Your statement "come on Flair" has me thinking Flair should use that song 'Come on Eilen' and reword it to Flair for a commercial lol. I realize it is weird, but that was the first thought to my head when I saw that.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    ^
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    "The Federal Court of Canada has ordered a second senior employee at WestJet Airlines Ltd. to testify under oath in a predatory pricing investigation into WestJet and its budget subsidiary, Swoop, by Canada's competition watchdog."and more.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...woop-1.5115687

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    Wasn't this the sort of thing that WestJet accused Air Canada of doing when they first started up? I guess that WJ is one of the big boys now so that makes it all OK when they do it.

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    Swoop's winter schedule is out. New routes announced but they are already served by Westjet except for Las Cabos. Not much of a gain, will probably see transfer of these routes from Westjet to Swoop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axb View Post
    Swoop's winter schedule is out. New routes announced but they are already served by Westjet except for Las Cabos. Not much of a gain, will probably see transfer of these routes from Westjet to Swoop.
    Thank you!

    I have just booked SJD on Swoop and less than $400 over Christmas break. Amazing deal!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axb View Post
    Swoop's winter schedule is out. New routes announced but they are already served by Westjet except for Las Cabos. Not much of a gain, will probably see transfer of these routes from Westjet to Swoop.
    I would call these additional Swoop routes and frequncy a gain:

    Originally Posted by TheGreatestX on Skyscraper:
    This winter, Edmonton will become Swoop's largest base. What's more, all of the new flights are in addition to existing mainline flights.

    Winter schedule
    Abbotsford 16x weekly
    Winnipeg 3x weekly
    Hamilton 6x weekly
    London 6x weekly (new)

    Las Vegas 7x weekly + 4x weekly mainline
    Orlando 2x weekly (new) +2x weekly mainline
    Mesa 2x weekly

    Los Cabos 3x weekly (new) +2x weekly mainline
    Puerto Vallarta 2x weekly (new) +4x weekly mainline
    Cancun 2x weekly (new) + 6x weekly mainline
    Mazatlan 2x weekly (new)

    https://www.flyswoop.com/news/2019-w...s-cabos-added/

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    Swoop really going for the Jugular with Flair. Less so on the domestic side but certainly beating them to the punch on some winter sun destination options. Wonder what is to become of Swoop with this Onex purchase of Westjet.

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    Looks like Flair is trying to provide a low cost option for Calgary, Toronto and Vancouver with their non stop flights there but still an uphill climb with Swoop going full tilt to capture all the low cost market share and nuge Flair out. See what Flair does for Sun Destinations after getting burned earlier this year

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Looks like Flair is trying to provide a low cost option for Calgary, Toronto and Vancouver with their non stop flights there but still an uphill climb with Swoop going full tilt to capture all the low cost market share and nuge Flair out. See what Flair does for Sun Destinations after getting burned earlier this year
    The answer to that is what metal they have to fly with and what range. Its not clear to me as to what the fleet as of today is and what it will be by December. Does anyone actually know? Wiki is rather stale dated.

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    Had no choice in YEG-YWG. Flair dropped this route.after all was done, Swoop is over double that of Flair on that route RT. I'm quite sure BOTH Swoop,WJ and AC have flooded that route to push competition out. Congrats.....You have succeeded.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

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    Swoop adding 3x weekly service to San Diego starting October 4


    https://www.flyswoop.com/news/fly-wi...-to-san-diego/

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    I am starting to like swoop now....

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    Swoop adding 3x weekly service to San Diego starting October 4


    https://www.flyswoop.com/news/fly-wi...-to-san-diego/
    I like this flight addition a lot.
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    President and CEO - Airshow.

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    **** happens.
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    But it happens far more often with budget carriers and charters like Swoop, Sun Wing, Air Transat etc. I get a kick out of reading these stories when one of the upset customers says something along the lines of "they're just terrible, this is the third time they've done this to me!" Why did you let it get past the first time and re-book with a company that left you stranded and treated you terribly? Oh right, to save $20 on your flight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    But it happens far more often with budget carriers and charters like Swoop, Sun Wing, Air Transat etc. I get a kick out of reading these stories when one of the upset customers says something along the lines of "they're just terrible, this is the third time they've done this to me!" Why did you let it get past the first time and re-book with a company that left you stranded and treated you terribly? Oh right, to save $20 on your flight.
    I think the reason they book is that it saves a lot more than $20 though. I fly to Vancouver and Kelowna a lot and on average a flight, depending on the time of year and when you fly it can easily be a $500-$600 flight. Those $119 return fares look pretty good in comparison.

    Having said that, We flew to Kelowna on Flair once back when they started and wouldn't do it again. Just like I won't fly Sunwing or Transat for sun destinations. You get what you pay for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    But it happens far more often with budget carriers and charters like Swoop, Sun Wing, Air Transat etc. I get a kick out of reading these stories when one of the upset customers says something along the lines of "they're just terrible, this is the third time they've done this to me!" Why did you let it get past the first time and re-book with a company that left you stranded and treated you terribly? Oh right, to save $20 on your flight.
    How elitist of you. This is thee only way many people could consider travelling.
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    I've had flights cancelled through Westjet and Air Canada too. Should I only fly private from now on to avoid such hassles? Please advise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    I've had flights cancelled through Westjet and Air Canada too. Should I only fly private from now on to avoid such hassles? Please advise.
    I've never had an AC or WJ flight outright cancelled on me in the dozens of times I've flown with either whether it be a quick trip back to beautiful BC, 'states for work or to get out of this sh*thole city in the middle of winter to Costa Rica, Hawaii or Cuba.

    Delays, yes, that happens for a variety of reasons. Never a cancellation.

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    I think the last time so many flights were cancelled in North American was 9-11.
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 10-07-2019 at 08:38 PM.

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    I just think WJ (Father and mother of Swoop) has long-forgotten who brung it to the dance.

    It's an effort I know, but WJ has become more legacy, arrogant and expensive the AC. That's some doing.

    And now Onex is left to clean up the mess.
    ... gobsmacked

  64. #64

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    Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head.

    30 cancelled Swoop flights leave customers bitter. Will passenger rights coming Monday help?

    Kevin Blenkhorn found out his Swoop flight was cancelled when he and his wife showed up at the Hamilton airport on July 7 to take their return flight to Edmonton.


    "I was not happy," said Blenkhorn who lives in Fort Saskatchewan, Alta. Swoop had rebooked him on a flight that departed six days later, but Blenkhorn needed to get home immediately to return to his mining job.


    He found a flight leaving the next morning on WestJet — Swoop's owner — totalling $1,462 for two last-minute tickets. He was surprised that WestJet wouldn't waive the cost.


    "I called WestJet and they said, 'Well, we really don't have anything to do with [Swoop].'"

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/swo...-cta-1.5210121
    Yeah, nothing to do with them other than owning 100% of them.

  65. #65

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    well...it seems like swoop will be cancelling the Edmonton to San Deigo soon as I'm checking the prices and they are $649 one way. Repeating what they did to Oakland...

  66. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axb View Post
    well...it seems like swoop will be cancelling the Edmonton to San Deigo soon as I'm checking the prices and they are $649 one way. Repeating what they did to Oakland...

    Yup....same kind of thing. Watch their how they will spin this (poor booking). They are keeping the newly announced Winnipeg- Florida flights though.

    With AA cancelling PHX this winter, we're going to have another disappointing year on the transborder side of things.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyYeg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Axb View Post
    well...it seems like swoop will be cancelling the Edmonton to San Deigo soon as I'm checking the prices and they are $649 one way. Repeating what they did to Oakland...

    Yup....same kind of thing. Watch their how they will spin this (poor booking). They are keeping the newly announced Winnipeg- Florida flights though.

    With AA cancelling PHX this winter, we're going to have another disappointing year on the transborder side of things.
    They are cancelling PHX this winter? Dam! I went on line yesterday - to get to PHX in Dec and it's dreadful as hell! Thought SWOOP went to Mesa - can't book that flight - even though it says it's an available airport. Or PHX via YYC on Westjet - thought we had our own WJ flight there did we not?

    Then Rouge cancelled our direct to LAS next month and wanted to re-route us via TOR or MTL - wtf?! So they can keep planes for those routes but YEG gets a kick in the nuts......

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyYeg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Axb View Post
    well...it seems like swoop will be cancelling the Edmonton to San Deigo soon as I'm checking the prices and they are $649 one way. Repeating what they did to Oakland...

    Yup....same kind of thing. Watch their how they will spin this (poor booking). They are keeping the newly announced Winnipeg- Florida flights though.

    With AA cancelling PHX this winter, we're going to have another disappointing year on the transborder side of things.
    They are cancelling PHX this winter? Dam! I went on line yesterday - to get to PHX in Dec and it's dreadful as hell! Thought SWOOP went to Mesa - can't book that flight - even though it says it's an available airport. Or PHX via YYC on Westjet - thought we had our own WJ flight there did we not?

    Then Rouge cancelled our direct to LAS next month and wanted to re-route us via TOR or MTL - wtf?! So they can keep planes for those routes but YEG gets a kick in the nuts......
    WestJet will still have daily flights to PHX.

  69. #69

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    Looks like Swoop is cancelling some frequencies to Los Cabos....our friend wanted to join us on a flight in December/Jan and just told me that flights are only showing once a week.

    I just looked and seems like our flight is not showing up anymore!!!! I am afraid they will put us on WS though YYC.

    Swoop is really messing up just like Flair did earlier this year.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    But it happens far more often with budget carriers and charters like Swoop, Sun Wing, Air Transat etc. I get a kick out of reading these stories when one of the upset customers says something along the lines of "they're just terrible, this is the third time they've done this to me!" Why did you let it get past the first time and re-book with a company that left you stranded and treated you terribly? Oh right, to save $20 on your flight.
    How elitist of you. This is thee only way many people could consider travelling.
    It's not elitist. It's the reality that these "low cost" airlines operate on razor thin margins, both in terms of profitability and in terms of customer service, staffing, and equipment. Look at how often they pop up in the news with stranded and irate passengers vs AC/WJ, which fly an order of magnitude more people.

    Travelling is expensive, no doubt, and it's unfortunate that some or even many people struggle to afford it. But there's an element of Caveat Emptor here as well. Booking with these low cost carriers is very risky. I learned my lesson with Jetsgo going bankrupt and leaving me to re-book last minute flights at 4 times the cost, as well as horrible service, delays, and lies about "non-stop service" every time I've flown Sun Wing or Air Transat (damn destination weddings). Never again for me.

  71. #71

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    ^I'm with you Marcel. Haven't had a bad experience myself with a low cost carrier but I won't book with them after some of the horror stories I keep hearing.

    Sucks to book at a higher price to fly but I've never been on a cancelled flight on WestJet or Air Canada.

  72. #72

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    Yeah, never have a problem with WestJet. BTW, Swoop is WestJet. Lock, stock and barrel

    WestJet passengers fuming after being 'abandoned' in Mexico

    "Technical issues happen with airplanes. It's everything that happened afterwards that really took this to a different level," Cimpello said.


    "I can tell you, I'll never step on a WestJet plane ever again. Like, there's no chance, in any situation. They've lost my business forever."

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...ints-1.4968882
    And

    WestJet gets 'formal warning' for misleading passengers about why it cancelled flights

    WestJet violated Canada's Air Transportation Regulations when it told passengers in late 2017 that it cancelled flights to Turks and Caicos and Santa Clara, Cuba, due to airport closures, the Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) says.


    At the time, each region's international airport was fully operational.


    Following an investigation, the CTA determined WestJet violated a regulation which states that airlines "shall not make publicly any statement that is false or misleading." As a penalty, the CTA gave WestJet a formal warning, which means if the airline commits the same violation again, it could face a monetary fine.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/wes...ling-1.5149512
    Oooohhh, a warning for flat out lying to passengers.

  73. #73
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    Why do you have such a hard time not putting words in people's mouths? You don't appear to be illiterate. So is it just bad faith argumentation? Nowhere did I say that the two big carriers are perfect. I said that given the massive volumes they fly, flyers they have relatively few issues as compared to the much smaller budget or charter airlines.

    Seriously, your petulance is getting really old.

  74. #74

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    You said that you'd never had a cancelled flight with wither of the big two. I was pointing out that they've had their fair share of cancellations. And, in the second case, bald face lied about the reasons.

    If you'd had just one cancelled flight, would you put WJ and Swoop in the same class?

  75. #75

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    Last night we received an email from Swoop and they changed our flights to SJD....we didn't accept the changes, so they got us on the WS metal instead based on our preferred schedule. I understand that the Max situation is getting difficult to manage, but I don't get whay they had to cancel a lot of YEG flights and not YWG.

    At an any rate, this was better than flair's last minute cancellation earlier this year.

  76. #76
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    Meanwhile Air Canada overcharges you for every trip. Maybe it is better to take a risk with a low cost carrier rather than paying exorbitant prices every time.
    The lawsuit, approved to proceed as a class action Monday, argues the country’s largest airline “illegally overcharged its customers” by more than 200 per cent — and more than the fuel cost itself — on some flights.
    https://globalnews.ca/news/5761591/q...el-surcharges/
    Our airline duopoly is a serious drain on the Canadian economy making travel within the our borders more expensive than flying out of the country. The damage to the tourist industry alone must be staggering.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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