Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: YEG to be sold?

  1. #1

    Default YEG to be sold?

    That's the talk of the town in Ottawa re the March 22 budget - the Liberals can raise 17b to spend on infrastructure by selling the 8 largest airports:

    http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...political-pain

    https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...lifts-off.html
    Last edited by moahunter; 09-03-2017 at 10:14 PM.

  2. #2

    Default

    Duplicate thread.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  3. #3
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    1,275

    Default

    I guess the big question is whether a privatized airport would be better for the people of Edmonton in terms of service ?

  4. #4
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    4,087

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    I guess the big question is whether a privatized airport would be better for the people of Edmonton in terms of service ?
    As long as it's not owned by the same company that would own the one to the south, I don't think it would be a bad thing.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    I guess the big question is whether a privatized airport would be better for the people of Edmonton in terms of service ?
    Hopefully - Canada has some of the highest domestic airfares in the world, some say because of lack of airline competition, some say because of outrageous airport charges. Would the airports become more efficient? Or are there so many taxes anyway, that it wouldn't make much difference? I think generally the private sector works better - more focused, the goals are clearer (grow the airport to make more money). Seems an easy path for Trudeau to raise some infrastructure spending. If Harper had done it though, we would endlessly have heard about how he is selling the farm...

  6. #6
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    4,842

    Default

    I interesting take from the different news papers.
    So YVR and YYC are lobbying against it and YEG is not? Could be why Harper did not want to privatize.

  7. #7
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    6,859

    Default

    I do hope not. Let them sell Pearson and see how that works out!

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    I interesting take from the different news papers.
    So YVR and YYC are lobbying against it and YEG is not? Could be why Harper did not want to privatize.
    Ottawa, Vancouver, and Calgary who are lobbying against.

    http://noairportselloff.ca/#facts

    I guess that doesn't mean the others are in favor, just that, they aren't willing to put up money to try and object. As to Harper, I think its different when Conservatives sell things, they get more political flak from the left. Harper would just lose support among his softer center voters. But for Trudeau, he can win support among his center right. So, it tends to be left wing governments who often do the sales.

    A "nice" approach might be to set them up as corporations and IPO them, allowing Canadians first choice to buy shares. More likely though Trudeau hand it off to some Bay street banker friends who donate to the Trudeau Foundation.
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-03-2017 at 06:05 PM.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    I interesting take from the different news papers.
    So YVR and YYC are lobbying against it and YEG is not? Could be why Harper did not want to privatize.
    Ottawa, Vancouver, and Calgary who are lobbying against.

    http://noairportselloff.ca/#facts

    I guess that doesn't mean the others are in favor, just that, they aren't willing to put up money to try and object. As to Harper, I think its different when Conservatives sell things, they get more political flak from the left. Harper would just lose support among his softer center voters. But for Trudeau, he can win support among his center right. So, it tends to be left wing governments who often do the sales.

    A "nice" approach might be to set them up as corporations and IPO them, allowing Canadians first choice to buy shares. More likely though Trudeau hand it off to some Bay street banker friends who donate to the Trudeau Foundation.
    Governments got out of the business of funding airports a long time ago, all of the expansions for years have been funded by user fees so I am not sure if "privatizing" them would make much difference except to give the government a one time windfall of cash. It could create problems as the privately owned airport would sort of be a monopoly in the local market so there would have to be some control by the government on how much user fees it could charge. Privatized monopolies often tend to like to increase fees and charges a lot - it makes their shareholders happy.

  10. #10
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    1,275

    Default

    Curious who owns some of the major airports of the world like heathrow or LAX?

    Are they private or public share?

  11. #11
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    11,603

    Default

    Apparently the US and Canada are somewhat out of step with the rest of the developed world in that regard. Most in Europe and Asia are privately operated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airpor..._and_operation

    Despite the reluctance to privatize airports in the US (despite the FAA sponsoring a privatization program since 1996), the government-owned, contractor-operated (GOCO) arrangement is the standard for the operation of commercial airports in the rest of the world.

  12. #12

    Default

    Be very suspicious of any privatization.


    This guy used to be oilguy1 on an investment forum and as the article points out he was on marketocracy too. This article is quite old now, but a guy to listen to:



    "McDuff scouts for overlooked sectors, too, and is big on airports. Since airport privatization is still a foreign concept, airports are mostly ignored here, he says.

    “The revenue streams are the stuff that most commercial real estate investors would kill to earn,” says his investment thesis. “Charges include departure taxes, landing fees, baggage-handling fees and aircraft fuelling costs. … Almost everyone who visits an airport pays some sort of fee. It’s not unusual for them to have [operating] margins of 60% to 70%.”

    McDuff’s favorite is Beijing Capital International Airport. North Americans have missed this one in part because it trades like a penny stock, at $1.08 a share over the counter. Yet with four billion shares out, its value exceeds $4 billion. Revenues have grown 14% annually since 2000. Last year it reported $500 million in revenue and $315 million in cash flow (in the sense of earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization). Those numbers will go up. Beijing just completed Terminal 3, the world’s largest. Fast-rising revenues and an enterprise ratio of 15 tell McDuff that the shares will take off. He also likes Mexico’s Grupo Aeroportuario del Sureste , listed on the New York Stock Exchange.


    https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0616/068.html
    Last edited by KC; 10-03-2017 at 07:30 PM.

  13. #13
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    1,767

    Default

    So what has government regulated airports given Edmonton? I would think that privatization of YEG would be a good thing, as there is financial incentive for shareholders to make money, by expanding with more flight offerings, upgraded facilities, etc.

    Why are YVR and YYC against privatization? Probably because they have more to lose, and YEG has more to gain
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

  14. #14
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    14,228
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I won't go too deep into this...

    But....

    YVR and YYC don't give a darn about YEG having an advantage or not. They share ccncerns, but YYC and YVR aren't looking at YEG at all...
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  15. #15

    Default

    Privatized monopoly is a dangerous idea. We already get soaked in Canada with some of the highest fees and if you look at every airport, they are constantly building and upgrading for the past decades and building palaces onto themselves. The people who get soaked are the traveling public and in such an expansive country, other forms of transport are not an option.

    The only way I would see privatization working is if they limited shareholders to Canadian individuals and capped to $50,000 or so. No corporations or investment groups could buy shares. Sort of a bond offering.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  16. #16

    Default

    10 Most Expensive Airports to Land Your Plane
    4. Toronto Pearson International Airport in Toronto, Canada: $5,200
    In 2013, a total of 36,109,469 passengers and 435,592 aircrafts passed through its terminals and runways
    For years this airport had the designation of being first on the list for most expensive landing fees now it is number four. (2013)
    http://www.therichest.com/luxury/mos...nd-your-plane/

    Let's see 435,592 aircrafts x $5,200 =


    Landing fees may encompass additional airport provided services. Some airports will charge a single fee for landing and provide gates and check-in facilities as part of that fee. Other airports will charge a lower fee for landing but will charge airlines for the use of gates and check-in facilities.
    Landing fees at various airports cannot be compared because a number of factors affect the amount of the fee. For example, many airports in the United States receive subsidies from the FAA while airports in Canada do not. Canadian airports are actually "taxed" in the form of ground rent.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_fee

    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  17. #17
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    4,842

    Default

    My only experience with privatization is LGW. It used to be part of the British Airport Authority which was privatized in the 80s and then sold off as a separate entity in 2008.
    When we visited there in 2005 the terminal was a pig pen but when we visited again a few years later the difference was night and day. They are able to promote themselves independently to develope their business. Not the same situation here but privatization did have a positive impact for LGW.
    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theg...rlineindustry1

  18. #18

    Default

    You folks do realize that major and international airports are already privatized?

    YEG, YCC and all the rest are private entities, most being Not for Profit corporations or a version of.

    They lease the airport Lands from the federal government, but that's it. All business operations, development, marketing and expansions
    are on the "Airport Authority" in each location.

    All that is changing is "who" owns the land.

    If ... the airport authorities can purchase the land with a payout rate similar to what they now pay in leases little if anything will change.

    But if ... the lands are purchased by "other" parties expecting a return on investment then you could see cost increases across the board.

    The airport authorities had been pushing to have the leases reduced ... in some cases it was suggested the Feds simply turn over the property.

    With this development it seems that is off the table and it could get interesting.

    IMO

  19. #19
    Becoming a C2E Power Poster
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    My only experience with privatization is LGW. It used to be part of the British Airport Authority which was privatized in the 80s and then sold off as a separate entity in 2008.
    When we visited there in 2005 the terminal was a pig pen but when we visited again a few years later the difference was night and day. They are able to promote themselves independently to develope their business. Not the same situation here but privatization did have a positive impact for LGW.
    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theg...rlineindustry1

    LGW is still a pig pen.

  20. #20
    Becoming a C2E Power Poster
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Moody's Investors Services has something to say:
    https://www.moodys.com/research/Mood...0215_PR_362110

    Best pull those annual reports and tell us how much debt does YEG and YYC have?

    I still don't understand why Ottawa forces the airports to pay rent on an asset Ottawa has long since recovered costs on. YEG and YYC would be a better shape if they didn't have to pay those high rents.

  21. #21

    Default

    Two words

    Cash cow
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  22. #22
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sherwood park
    Posts
    2,753

    Default

    You said it Dave.

  23. #23
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Where ever the pilot takes me
    Posts
    2,349

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    LGW is still a pig pen.
    Ditto
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  24. #24
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    4,842

    Default

    Well if you think it is a pig pen now you should have seen it in 2005.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •