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Thread: Liberals And Trudeau - Performance Review!

  1. #4001
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    not defending? bull...

    there is exactly zero point to engage in your what-about-ism if not to downplay the significance of todays findings (and everything else that led to them) and defend the boy wonder.

    not that it's surprising to see that liberal support coming out of montreal under the guise of being non-partisan and objective when it comes to politics.

    after all, we know that all of the problems we have in ottawa are really because there's too much alberta in ottawa and it upsets the natural order of things…
    So you're opposed to Trudeau's actions in regards to SNC Lavalin but would be in full favour of him telling the courts that they shouldn't have delayed Trans-Mountain again? How exactly does that work?

    He's responsible in the case of SNC but totally to blame in the other?

    How about Northern Gateway? Trudeau to blame for that too?

    Court quashes Enbridge pipeline, slams Harper government for ignoring First Nations
    By Mike De Souza in News, Energy | June 30th 2016

    In their ruling, the judges from the appeal court said Harper's government rushed the consultation process, with orders from the "highest level of government" directing that information of federal knowledge about the harmful impacts of the project "not be shared with any First Nation."


    "The inadequacies—more than just a handful and more than mere imperfections—left entire subjects of central interest to the affected First Nations, sometimes subjects affecting their subsistence and well-being, entirely ignored," said the June 23 court decision that was publicly released on Thursday. "Many impacts of the project... were left undisclosed, undiscussed and unconsidered. It would have taken Canada little time and little organizational effort to engage in meaningful dialogue on these and other subjects of prime importance to Aboriginal peoples. But this did not happen."

    https://www.nationalobserver.com/201...ignoring-first
    yet more what-about-ism... combined with another set of projections.

    it wasn't me who decided the boy wonder was guilty of being unethical, not once but twice. a fact that is quite capable of standing on its own.

    as for "the courts", there are many who still think that decision should have been reheard by the supreme court - another case of someone deciding he should determine what's right for the country because he thinks he knows best.

    as for northern gateway, he may not be responsible for that but he is responsible for no other options being possible because he also knew best on that file when he imposed his "moratorium".
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  2. #4002

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    it wasn't me who decided the boy wonder was guilty of being unethical, not once but twice. a fact that is quite capable of standing on its own.
    If Trudeau at 47 is "boy wonder", what're Scheer & Singh at 40? How old does someone need to be to age out of your explicit bias? Should this country only be ruled by old folks who'll never face the long term consequences of their actions?

    I generally adore your posts & posting style, but you've clearly had an axe to grind against JT, likely since he popped outta Margaret, maybe before. You do yourself a great disservice by constantly dropping in the little epithets and ad hominems. It's a Trumpian tactic & belies your intelligence, candor & general eloquence.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  3. #4003

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I generally adore your posts & posting style, but you've clearly had an axe to grind against JT, likely since he popped outta Margaret, maybe before. You do yourself a great disservice by constantly dropping in the little epithets and ad hominems. It's a Trumpian tactic & belies your intelligence, candor & general eloquence.
    Well stated noodle.

    kcantor, you seem a bit off lately, acting like some old curmudgeon who is having a bad day. We miss the kcantor we knew before who debated with more style and class; rising above the rancor and cheap shots.

    Just labeling every counterpoint as whataboutism without understanding the thrust and context that the other poster is trying to make, is just poor form.
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  4. #4004

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I generally adore your posts & posting style, but you've clearly had an axe to grind against JT, likely since he popped outta Margaret, maybe before. You do yourself a great disservice by constantly dropping in the little epithets and ad hominems. It's a Trumpian tactic & belies your intelligence, candor & general eloquence.
    Well stated noodle.

    kcantor, you seem a bit off lately, acting like some old curmudgeon who is having a bad day. We miss the kcantor we knew before who debated with more style and class; rising above the rancor and cheap shots.

    Just labeling every counterpoint as whataboutism without understanding the thrust and context that the other poster is trying to make, is just poor form.
    My God! What’s happening here?

    What in earth have you two been drinking - or NOT drinking?

  5. #4005

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    not defending? bull...

    there is exactly zero point to engage in your what-about-ism if not to downplay the significance of todays findings (and everything else that led to them) and defend the boy wonder.

    not that it's surprising to see that liberal support coming out of montreal under the guise of being non-partisan and objective when it comes to politics.

    after all, we know that all of the problems we have in ottawa are really because there's too much alberta in ottawa and it upsets the natural order of things…
    So you're opposed to Trudeau's actions in regards to SNC Lavalin but would be in full favour of him telling the courts that they shouldn't have delayed Trans-Mountain again? How exactly does that work?

    He's responsible in the case of SNC but totally to blame in the other?

    How about Northern Gateway? Trudeau to blame for that too?

    Court quashes Enbridge pipeline, slams Harper government for ignoring First Nations
    By Mike De Souza in News, Energy | June 30th 2016

    In their ruling, the judges from the appeal court said Harper's government rushed the consultation process, with orders from the "highest level of government" directing that information of federal knowledge about the harmful impacts of the project "not be shared with any First Nation."


    "The inadequacies—more than just a handful and more than mere imperfections—left entire subjects of central interest to the affected First Nations, sometimes subjects affecting their subsistence and well-being, entirely ignored," said the June 23 court decision that was publicly released on Thursday. "Many impacts of the project... were left undisclosed, undiscussed and unconsidered. It would have taken Canada little time and little organizational effort to engage in meaningful dialogue on these and other subjects of prime importance to Aboriginal peoples. But this did not happen."

    https://www.nationalobserver.com/201...ignoring-first
    yet more what-about-ism... combined with another set of projections.

    it wasn't me who decided the boy wonder was guilty of being unethical, not once but twice. a fact that is quite capable of standing on its own.

    as for "the courts", there are many who still think that decision should have been reheard by the supreme court - another case of someone deciding he should determine what's right for the country because he thinks he knows best.

    as for northern gateway, he may not be responsible for that but he is responsible for no other options being possible because he also knew best on that file when he imposed his "moratorium".
    Pretty reasonable post in my view. Making relevant comparisons and explaining changes in actions between leaders is reasonable. Is whataboutism about doing that in order to lesson criticism and to deflect rather than focus?

    My only issue is that many things swing between extremes due to some pendulum like or knee-jerk like effect. A feedback loop maybe? The court went against Harper and so everything reversed direction...

    Trudeau’s lack of awareness on what drives our economy, or what is proportionately more important than other factors is where he creates distortions or puts in place roadblocks the impedes needed progress. (An example is his sandbagging* photo op.)

    He’d clearly let oil exports die because he operates under the assumption that oil exports aren’t as a major contributor to our standard of living as they really are. However from early on, he’s said things making it clear that he knows they are important. He fails at proportioning or prioritizing economic issues. (That sort of failure is how bad policies were implemented in that they escalated risk and actually led to the global financial crisis.)



    This is so lame: Trudeau is saying that he was standing up for protecting jobs. Yet again, in terms of priorities he jumped into action for a few thousand SNC engineering jobs vs tens or into the hundred thousand jobs at risk in other jurisdictions. These SNC jobs mattered to him. The other jobs, the other people, didn’t.



    * stonewalling via sandbagging
    Last edited by KC; 15-08-2019 at 08:37 AM.

  6. #4006

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    Lots here - good on Singh!

    Jagmeet Singh says SNC-Lavalin report shows Justin Trudeau can’t be trusted | The Star

    https://www.thestar.com/politics/fed...e-trusted.html

  7. #4007
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    it wasn't me who decided the boy wonder was guilty of being unethical, not once but twice. a fact that is quite capable of standing on its own.
    If Trudeau at 47 is "boy wonder", what're Scheer & Singh at 40? How old does someone need to be to age out of your explicit bias? Should this country only be ruled by old folks who'll never face the long term consequences of their actions?

    I generally adore your posts & posting style, but you've clearly had an axe to grind against JT, likely since he popped outta Margaret, maybe before. You do yourself a great disservice by constantly dropping in the little epithets and ad hominems. It's a Trumpian tactic & belies your intelligence, candor & general eloquence.
    fair enough...

    flattery aside, there probably is an axe there that familialy goes back to his father and politically goes back to king's "none is too many" while denying the st. louis permission to dock in canada if not further. in too many ways jt is the embodiment of so much that is wrong with our history it is difficult for me to "just look at the man".

    as "just a man" (say a man with the surname smith or jones?), there is no way the liberal party would have annointed him as leader and there is no way he would be the prime minister of canada. to think that even within the party they could have given us garneau and they chose to give us trudeau speaks volumes.

    when i refer to him as the boy wonder it has little to do with his age and everything to do with the entitlements he abuses without even recognizing it.

    while i can accept the validity of your criticism, i do however disagree with the trumpian analogy. the donald insults anyone and everyone who doesn't toady up to him or who he feels threatened by on any particular day deserved or not. i would hope that my criticism is a bit more consistent, more discriminating, more valid and less self-serving than that.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  8. #4008

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    Jody Wilson-Raybould to release 'timely' and 'must-read' book during election campaign | CBC News

    “Former justice minister Jody Wilson-Raybould will release a book in the middle of the fall election campaign. Her publisher is promising a "timely" and "impassioned" piece of work, while another reviewer is calling the text a "must-read for all Canadians." ...”

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jod...book-1.5223168

  9. #4009

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    it wasn't me who decided the boy wonder was guilty of being unethical, not once but twice. a fact that is quite capable of standing on its own.
    If Trudeau at 47 is "boy wonder", what're Scheer & Singh at 40? How old does someone need to be to age out of your explicit bias? Should this country only be ruled by old folks who'll never face the long term consequences of their actions?

    I generally adore your posts & posting style, but you've clearly had an axe to grind against JT, likely since he popped outta Margaret, maybe before. You do yourself a great disservice by constantly dropping in the little epithets and ad hominems. It's a Trumpian tactic & belies your intelligence, candor & general eloquence.
    fair enough...

    flattery aside, there probably is an axe there that familialy goes back to his father and politically goes back to king's "none is too many" while denying the st. louis permission to dock in canada if not further. in too many ways jt is the embodiment of so much that is wrong with our history it is difficult for me to "just look at the man".

    as "just a man" (say a man with the surname smith or jones?), there is no way the liberal party would have annointed him as leader and there is no way he would be the prime minister of canada. to think that even within the party they could have given us garneau and they chose to give us trudeau speaks volumes.

    when i refer to him as the boy wonder it has little to do with his age and everything to do with the entitlements he abuses without even recognizing it.

    while i can accept the validity of your criticism, i do however disagree with the trumpian analogy. the donald insults anyone and everyone who doesn't toady up to him or who he feels threatened by on any particular day deserved or not. i would hope that my criticism is a bit more consistent, more discriminating, more valid and less self-serving than that.
    Justin Trudeau came with enTITLEment. He ran a very good campaign and said all the right things and even began power doing and saying a lot of politically correct and needed things. So he deserves credit there.

    However, the world is full of instances of high performing people that got the chance to perform and got where they are, not out of merit but out of pure nepotism. That’s how it is but how much more opportunity should society ever confer upon the already-fortunate few.

    In cases where the preordained nepotists subsequently fail to perform in a truly exemplary manner, I’m not sure if they DESERVE a chance. If through their connections they’ve already jumped over many deserving and capable people, I’m not sure if it can even honestly be called a “second chance”!

    BTW I voted for a Liberal candidate and so in a sense voted for Trudeau due to his dominance of the Liberal campaign presence. I was surprised and liked his commentary and the Liberal policy proposals he pushed. Couldn’t care less about his style or appearance.
    Last edited by KC; 15-08-2019 at 09:17 AM.

  10. #4010

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    So you admit an immutable, long standing bias colours & impacts everything you process regarding JT & will continue to play the man & not the puck when discussing the current Federal Government. Your predetermined conclusions are the lens you view his conduct through & find yet more ways to justify & continue reinforcing those beliefs.

    Gotcha. I'll continue to scroll past your contributions in the Federal Politics threads, as I've got better things to do than winnow the substance of your message from the sassy ad hominem chaff, as no matter how "more consistent, more discriminating, more valid and less self-serving" it may be, it's still unneeded garbage that doesn't add any value to your posts.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  11. #4011
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    BTW I voted for a Liberal candidate
    My deepest sympathies..
    Animals are my passion.

  12. #4012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    If the Trudeau government bought Bombardier, a whole bunch of people would have lost their minds.

    They bought Trans Mountain and those same people have to be reminded of that fact.
    Please post correct information. Government didn't buy but supports Bombardier on tax-payer dime:

    https://www.bombardier.com/en/media/...ardiercom.html

    https://globalnews.ca/news/2624709/h...-its-a-secret/

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    So you admit an immutable, long standing bias colours & impacts everything you process regarding JT & will continue to play the man & not the puck when discussing the current Federal Government. Your predetermined conclusions are the lens you view his conduct through & find yet more ways to justify & continue reinforcing those beliefs.

    Gotcha. I'll continue to scroll past your contributions in the Federal Politics threads, as I've got better things to do than winnow the substance of your message from the sassy ad hominem chaff, as no matter how "more consistent, more discriminating, more valid and less self-serving" it may be, it's still unneeded garbage that doesn't add any value to your posts.
    we all have biases and i make no apologies for mine here - or elsewhere - unless they happen to interfere being objective despite those biases.

    you're welcome to scroll past my federal politics thread posts if it's too much work for you to apply a "filter" when reading mine (as if mine are the only biases in the thread ). there aren't that many of them anyway.

    in the interim, i will try and pay attention to the objectivity of my posts insofar as the bias influencing their actual content even though i don't believe that to have been substantive, even in the recent exchanges.

    as for the "boy wonder" expression, if my posts would not be considered overly partisan or biased if i chose to use "jt" or "JT" or "the current prime minister" instead of "boy wonder", that would be the test from my perspective so you may well still see "boy wonder" in use if you ever do stop scrolling past. if it's going to offend you that much, you should probably keep scrolling.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  14. #4014

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    “Thanks for Nothing”


    “the company sent the Prime Minister’s Office a document entitled “SNC: Thanks for Nothing, “

    Why didn't SNC-Lavalin grab a chance to make its best case? - Macleans.ca

    https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ott...its-best-case/

  15. #4015

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    BTW I voted for a Liberal candidate
    My deepest sympathies..
    And I voted for a UCP candidate in the latest provincial election. Deepest sympathies to both of us?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    BTW I voted for a Liberal candidate
    My deepest sympathies..
    And I voted for a UCP candidate in the latest provincial election. Deepest sympathies to both of us?
    Not yet
    .I'll give him a chance, to prove himself and his party.
    I just filled up the car at Costco, it's sweet not having a carbon tax on it..

    It might be back in January, but it won't be as high as the dippers tax..
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  17. #4017

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    we all have biases and i make no apologies for mine here - or elsewhere - unless they happen to interfere being objective despite those biases.
    And, from my perspective, this benchmark has been met. Hence my comment. You're far better at keeping your biases under your hat (or at least mostly toothless) on just about every other topic, but as soon as Trudeau comes out they're like an airhorn drowning out your own messages.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    you're welcome to scroll past my federal politics thread posts if it's too much work for you to apply a "filter" when reading mine (as if mine are the only biases in the thread ). there aren't that many of them anyway.
    I still read them, just with eyes half-rolled & shielded from the sparks from the axe you're busy grinding away on.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    in the interim, i will try and pay attention to the objectivity of my posts insofar as the bias influencing their actual content even though i don't believe that to have been substantive, even in the recent exchanges.
    You know how to portray yourself best, I just wanted to express what I believed to be an unintended, negative consequence of your chosen phrasing & method of discourse.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    as for the "boy wonder" expression, if my posts would not be considered overly partisan or biased if i chose to use "jt" or "JT" or "the current prime minister" instead of "boy wonder", that would be the test from my perspective so you may well still see "boy wonder" in use if you ever do stop scrolling past. if it's going to offend you that much, you should probably keep scrolling.
    I just find that particular term to be inherently pejorative, condescending & not well-founded. He is no boy, he's the second oldest head of a political party in Canada. And as so far as there being a cult of personality around him in the legislature, I can only remember one PM attempting to name the government after themselves & it wasn't anyone on the red side.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  18. #4018

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    The carbon tax removal is pretty much a non-factor in todays lower gas prices... but then again... #factsdontmatter #cheerforbluenomatterwhat

  19. #4019

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    It's amazing how willingly HL swallows greasy load after greasy load of conservative gish gallop BS without even the slightest hint of introspection or thought.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  20. #4020
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    Aww the gangs all here. They voted NDP and are the sorest of losers..

    Pity!
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  21. #4021

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Aww the gangs all here. They voted NDP and are the sorest of losers..

    Pity!
    When #factsdontmatter and all you can do is hurl insults.... You get HL!

  22. #4022

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/08/1...f-Power-Final/

    Not to engage in whataboutism here, but to say the Conservatives are somehow cleaner than the Liberals requires a massive double dose of cognitive dissonance & willful ignorance.
    But that's exactly what you're engaging in here. Harper is not the PM, and he's not even in opposition. He's totally irrelevant as far as this matter goes. Wells and Geddes both put out excellent pieces, as usual, in response to today's report:

    https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ott...faults-the-pm/

    https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ott...its-best-case/

    Trudeau's response so far today has been absolutely unacceptable. He "takes full responsibility" but disagrees with most of the findings? What the hell does that even mean? At this point he and Randy Boissonnault have entirely lost my vote. Which is unfortunate, as I'm not all that interested in voting for Scheer and the Conservatives, nor the NDP or Greens. Normally it takes a Liberal government a solid 2-3 terms before they get arrogant enough to think that ethics are secondary to their re-election chances. JT managed that in record time. It's a shame because as far as policy goes, I didn't have many big concerns. But JT has shown he's not cut out for the job ethically or in terms of seriousness (playing Mr. Dressup and pissing off an entire sub-continent. Namaste!).

    Here's to hoping for some sort of minority government and JT resigning after the election to clear the way for Freeland or someone else who knows ethics from a hole in the ground.
    Perfect, then we can have the Greens/NDP tipping the balance and basically running the country.
    Last edited by Stoneman; 15-08-2019 at 02:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    If the Trudeau government bought Bombardier, a whole bunch of people would have lost their minds.

    They bought Trans Mountain and those same people have to be reminded of that fact.
    We've already paid about $1 billion to Bombardier, we should already own it
    https://www.fraserinstitute.org/arti...e-welfare-trap
    But Bombardier's 4,000 and SNC Lavalin's 7,000 Canadian workers are more important than Alberta's 100,000 oilfield workers to Justin

  24. #4024

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    Bombardier's 4000 workers? That is only in their Canadian rail division.


    Bombardier had 69,500 staff in 2017 worldwide. In Canada, Bombardier Aerospace directly generates more than 22,000 highly skilled employees
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    If the Trudeau government bought Bombardier, a whole bunch of people would have lost their minds.

    They bought Trans Mountain and those same people have to be reminded of that fact.
    We've already paid about $1 billion to Bombardier, we should already own it
    https://www.fraserinstitute.org/arti...e-welfare-trap
    But Bombardier's 4,000 and SNC Lavalin's 7,000 Canadian workers are more important than Alberta's 100,000 oilfield workers to Justin
    100% correct. Quebec has been the crybaby of Canada, for as long as I can recall. I lived there for a short while, and hated it. Then Ontario, then BC. Honestly , AB is the best province to live in. In good times and bad, we share the wealth. Quebec doesn't want our oil ,but a pension group from there , wants to buy the pipeline. Have not province that it is, , that's total bs.
    I'm waiting to see what the election brings if it's the greens propping up JT, we're doomed, and Kenney will have to make a move.
    Animals are my passion.

  26. #4026

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    If the Trudeau government bought Bombardier, a whole bunch of people would have lost their minds.

    They bought Trans Mountain and those same people have to be reminded of that fact.
    We've already paid about $1 billion to Bombardier, we should already own it
    https://www.fraserinstitute.org/arti...e-welfare-trap
    But Bombardier's 4,000 and SNC Lavalin's 7,000 Canadian workers are more important than Alberta's 100,000 oilfield workers to Justin
    100% correct. Quebec has been the crybaby of Canada, for as long as I can recall. I lived there for a short while, and hated it. Then Ontario, then BC. Honestly , AB is the best province to live in. In good times and bad, we share the wealth. Quebec doesn't want our oil ,but a pension group from there , wants to buy the pipeline. Have not province that it is, , that's total bs.
    I'm waiting to see what the election brings if it's the greens propping up JT, we're doomed, and Kenney will have to make a move.
    Maybe at one time a lot of the whining in Canada did come from Quebec, but it seems to be coming mostly from another much better off province these days.

  27. #4027

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    I have lived most of my life in Edmonton, 4 in Ontario decades ago, and now 7 in Quebec

    I find that in sweeping generalizations, these differences, IMHO.

    In Alberta, your average Joe complains about Quebec
    In Quebec, your average Joe knows very little about Alberta and could care less.
    In Ontario, your average Joe knows nothing about anything outside of Southern Ontario and thinks Albertans and Quebecers are whiners.

    In Alberta, the politicans use Quebec and Ontario as foils
    In Quebec, the politicans only even mention Alberta to make points with Ottawa.
    In Ontario, the politicans knows nothing about anything outside of Southern Ontario and thinks Albertans and Quebecers are whiners.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 15-08-2019 at 06:57 PM.
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    Being older I recall Pierre Trudeau pi$$ing every province off, giving the finger, telling people to fuddle duddel and being very arrogant in general. Yet he was in power from 1968 to 1984.(15 yrs and 164 days as PM). When Trudeau took office in 1968 Canada had a debt of $18 billion which was largely left over from World War II, when he left office in 1984, that debt stood at $200 billion. Out west we just HATED him. Apple not falling far from tree?
    Last edited by Drumbones; 15-08-2019 at 08:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Being older I recall Pierre Trudeau pi$$ing every province off, giving the finger, telling people to fuddle duddel and being very arrogant in general. Yet he was in power from 1968 to 1984.(15 yrs and 164 days as PM). When Trudeau took office in 1968 Canada had a debt of $18 billion which was largely left over from World War II, when he left office in 1984, that debt stood at $200 billion. Out west we just HATED him. Apple not falling far from tree?
    Not far at all.
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    noodle, you never did respond to my post: http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...l=1#post941199

    Given that you frequently call out others for using whataboutism, it's strange that you went ahead and engaged in it yourself, and then never offered a response to my calling it out. Let's not pretend you didn't see my post; you chose to ignore it. Meanwhile you had all the time in the world to psychoanalyze Ken. And for what it's worth, I agree with you on the "boy wonder" thing.

    But that's minor. What I'd like from you, is an actual response to the fact that JT has twice now been found in violation of the conflict of interests regulation by two different commissioners. The only PM in Canada's history to have done so even once. The first one, in my view, wasn't a huge deal given that it wasn't a for-profit corporation that he was jumping in bed with, even if it was a really stupid decision to put himself in that situation.

    The SNC affair, though, is exactly that. A corporation with a massive history of corruption and bad behavior. Given your frequent postings about how beyond the pale it is for the UCP or the federal C's to jump in to bed with corporations in general, it's odd that you seem so willing to turn a blind eye here. You really haven't said much of anything on the topic other than "Harper was worse!"

    This is another great piece by Maclean's that lays out how sordid this whole affair is, in terms of the massive lobbying campaign that almost got SNC exactly what they wanted, were it not for a pesky AG that wouldn't play along: https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ott...its-best-case/

    For someone who takes great pleasure in calling out others on their double standards, you sure seem to hold some of your own.

  31. #4031

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    Drumbones
    Let's put things in context. Name me a country that did not increase their national debt between 1968 and 1984, especially since inflation rose over 300 percent and countries were all spending like mad? Just name a major country.

    On the fuddle duddle remark, he never made that towards the Canadian public. He said it, or swore F/O to John Lundrigan in Parliament question period when asked what Trudeau was doing about creating new programs to reduce unemployment.

    He was not pissing every province off otherwise he wouldn't have been reelected. He did pizz off the west and created a real schism due to the National Energy Program that was aimed at reducing the cost of gas and oil all over Canada as the price for a barrel went from $3 to nearly $50 in a decade. In fact at the beginning of the 1980's, the price of oil was the highest recorded to this day. The NEP was terrible to Alberta and we really took a body blow for Canada and lead to resentment of the east that benefitted from the NEP. In many ways, Alberta never recovered from the 10 year stall to economy. But the country was in crisis and inflation was at 9 to 10 percent annually and interest rates were skyrocketing. I recall mortgages at over 20 percent. Quebec nearly separated, Alberta was threatening it as well and the country was in deep trouble. It was a totally different time and making such broad statements that you made are based more on emotion and resentment with the fog of time and less on the facts, politics and the context of that time.

    https://inflationdata.com/articles/i...-prices-table/

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1980s_recession
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 15-08-2019 at 09:27 PM.
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  32. #4032
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    Another good read here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jod...gime-1.5248561

    Let's be clear what happened here: the Prime Minister of the country engaged in an effort to undermine the rule of law in order to benefit a sleazy private corporation, because he felt it would improve his political chances. Bottom line. That is now incredibly clear. Or at least should be.

  33. #4033

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    I think that SNC should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. SNC should be banned for lobbying governments at all levels.
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  34. #4034
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    And what should the consequences be for the Prime Minister's role in all this?

    The whole McLachlin thing, where they were lining her up to provide pre-approved advice to the AG without the AG's knowledge, stinks to high heaven. Essentially the PMO, PCO, and SNC were all working together to get the DPA approved, without the knowledge of the AG. It'll be interesting to see if the former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada has much to say about this whole affair, now that her involvement is out in the open. It seems she had the good sense to decline diving right in, unlike the other two former Justices that were working for SNC, but she did listen.

    More reading here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/dio...port-1.5247418 (and watch the At Issue panel as well)

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sup...dion-1.5247331

    This whole affair is raising some fundamental questions about what roles former Justices of the court can or should hold after they leave the bench. Freelancing for sleazy corporations in order to avoid prosecution would be on my list of things that they probably shouldn't be doing.

  35. #4035

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Bombardier's 4000 workers? That is only in their Canadian rail division.


    Bombardier had 69,500 staff in 2017 worldwide. In Canada, Bombardier Aerospace directly generates more than 22,000 highly skilled employees
    And if it’s s great business then we taxpayers should now OWN a good chunk of that business. If we save it then we should be able to own some of it so we can then sit on a share position until it’s full recovery is reflected in its share values and then dump those shares if we do desire. Instead the execs and other shareholders capture all those gains.

  36. #4036

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    Which is EXACTLY the same thing Alberta should do with the oil industry. You want taxpayers to invest? OK, it's not a loan, it's an ownership stake. Along with dividends, we'd also get a seat at the boardroom table.

    We could have done the same with the arena. The city gets a stake of the team until the arena is paid off. Then, we sell the team and Katz owns the arena free and clear to do with as he likes. Seeing how the value of the Oilers jumped when the new arena opened, we'd be far ahead.

    But nah, that's socialism. Better we finance infrastructure necessary for a billionaire to run his business.
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 15-08-2019 at 11:18 PM.

  37. #4037

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    BTW, I am not saying that the Canadian government should have invested in Bombardier. All I stated was that the 4,000 employees in Canada was a incorrect number.
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  38. #4038

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Which is EXACTLY the same thing Alberta should do with the oil industry. You want taxpayers to invest? OK, it's not a loan, it's an ownership stake. Along with dividends, we'd also get a seat at the boardroom table.

    We could have done the same with the arena. The city gets a stake of the team until the arena is paid off. Then, we sell the team and Katz owns the arena free and clear to do with as he likes. Seeing how the value of the Oilers jumped when the new arena opened, we'd be far ahead.

    But nah, that's socialism. Better we finance infrastructure necessary for a billionaire to run his business.
    We sold all of CN and guess who bought a lot of it. Bill Gates via Cascadia. He made a small profit in doing so. (In the x-“Bagger” Range as in a 5-Bagger, 10-Bagger, 20-Bagger...)


    BTW - Someone would have to verify this but I think CNR is up around 3,000% since it was privatized.
    Last edited by KC; 16-08-2019 at 06:44 AM.

  39. #4039

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    noodle, you never did respond to my post: http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...l=1#post941199
    Apologies, my actual reply was supposed to be directed to Drumbones' "HURRRR DURR ALL POLITICIANS ARE CORRUPT" by providing a counter example of what I feel is a far more corrupt government from the other side of the fence from recent history. The Trudeau government certainly has its flaws, but it's a far cry from recent Conservative governments & their ethical lapses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Given that you frequently call out others for using whataboutism, it's strange that you went ahead and engaged in it yourself, and then never offered a response to my calling it out.
    I had intended to go back & clarify how I intended my comparison or example to be made, then the thread moved on & I forgot. I C2E between work tasks after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Let's not pretend you didn't see my post; you chose to ignore it. Meanwhile you had all the time in the world to psychoanalyze Ken. And for what it's worth, I agree with you on the "boy wonder" thing.
    Like I said, I noted it, got distracted & didn't come back to it. I didn't realize you were entitled to a guaranteed reply & had first queuing in my mental processes for the day. Mea culpa. I've put a sticky on my monitor to remind me in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    But that's minor. What I'd like from you, is an actual response to the fact that JT has twice now been found in violation of the conflict of interests regulation by two different commissioners. The only PM in Canada's history to have done so even once. The first one, in my view, wasn't a huge deal given that it wasn't a for-profit corporation that he was jumping in bed with, even if it was a really stupid decision to put himself in that situation.

    The SNC affair, though, is exactly that. A corporation with a massive history of corruption and bad behavior. Given your frequent postings about how beyond the pale it is for the UCP or the federal C's to jump in to bed with corporations in general, it's odd that you seem so willing to turn a blind eye here. You really haven't said much of anything on the topic other than "Harper was worse!"
    What's occurred is a huge subverting & perverting of our parliamentary & legal systems. SNC Lavalin is a company with very few scruples/morals/ethics. There needs to be some systemic changes put in place to prevent these sorts of issues from occurring in the future, including a separation of powers. I don't agree with the actions of the PM on this issue by any means.

    That being said, this scandal is not enough for me to huff glue, put my pants on my head & change my vote, thanks to our FPTP system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    This is another great piece by Maclean's that lays out how sordid this whole affair is, in terms of the massive lobbying campaign that almost got SNC exactly what they wanted, were it not for a pesky AG that wouldn't play along: https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ott...its-best-case/
    Yeah, it's terrible what the Liberal government did, truly beyond the pale. They're still the lesser of four evils though, as far as my personal assessment goes. Do you think a Conservative AG would have stood up the same way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    For someone who takes great pleasure in calling out others on their double standards, you sure seem to hold some of your own.
    Pobody's nerfect.
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  40. #4040

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    Good responses noodle.

    Marcel can get impatient sometimes and will occasionally project things that people have not said or believe. I'll give him a pass on this one.

    I am not happy with JT but the real culprit is SNC and they are circling Parliament Hill like sharks except their prey is money. The PC's were even more beholden to corporate interests.

    The needs and concerns of voters cannot get the attention in Ottawa but all the paid lobbyists and corporations that don't get to vote, are a fixture in Ottawa, so much so that during renovations to the Parliament buildings, they might as well add ta wing to the Centre Block that includes a Hotel and meeting rooms with wet bars for all the paid lobbyists and corporations to schmooze with the government.
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  41. #4041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Another good read here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jod...gime-1.5248561

    Let's be clear what happened here: the Prime Minister of the country engaged in an effort to undermine the rule of law in order to benefit a sleazy private corporation, because he felt it would improve his political chances. Bottom line. That is now incredibly clear. Or at least should be.
    Excellent post. If the boy gets in again, it says a lot about Canada, and what we've become.
    JWR is well spoken, and a credit to her upbringing.
    Animals are my passion.

  42. #4042

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    ^ coming from the Trump supporter. What a hypocrite you are H.L.
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  43. #4043

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    This thing with SNC lavalin will only get Trudeau more votes in the east, and that's all the matters. the election will be over before the polls in the west are closed, once again. He will get a majority of the seats in Quebec, and few in the maritimes/newfoundland and a some in Ontario, and will have at least a minority government by then if not a majority.

    Sorry, we don't matter out here to the liberals, and Quebec loves that Trudeau is protecting Quebecers jobs, even if his action is shady.... but as we've seen in Alberta with Kenney, ethics doesn't matter, breaking laws doesn't matter.

  44. #4044

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    Gotta agree with you Medwards. I have been saying that for decades
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  45. #4045
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    As far as the election goes, I'm not so sure that the Liberals will pull it out. Almost certainly not a majority, I don't think. But even if they end up in second place for seats in a minority situation, they'll be given first kick at forming government. Some sort of Liberal/NDP/Green minority or coalition government will at least be amusing in terms of the reactions it will get from the average Albertan.

    Were it not for racism in Quebec, especially rural Quebec, the NDP would probably be making the Liberals' lives much more difficult. But there is no way that a province that just brought in a religious head wear ban for public employees that's quite obviously racially motivated and also quite popular is going to vote en masse for a party led by a brown guy in a turban. Sad but true. I'd love to see some historical polling data over the past couple years since Singh was chosen as the leader. I'd be willing to bet that their support began to crater the day after. Sure Singh's been very, very mediocre as a leader and his recent comments on SNC would indicate he's either given up on Quebec entirely or he's incredibly tone deaf, but it would be very interesting to compare polling data in BC vs Quebec in his tenure.

    Quote Originally Posted by noodle
    Yeah, it's terrible what the Liberal government did, truly beyond the pale. They're still the lesser of four evils though, as far as my personal assessment goes. Do you think a Conservative AG would have stood up the same way?


    Thanks for the reply. We don't know the answer to your question, and JT's whole shtick was that he was going to do things differently and blah blah blah. That's now been conclusively proven to be a lie, just like how he blatantly lied to the entire country when he came out and said the initial report was "false". Not "taken out of context", not "this isn't the whole story", not "there's been a misunderstanding", but "the report is false". It was wholly accurate, with the benefit of hindsight and the report.

    I was willing to give him a shot, and he's failed pretty miserably in living up to his own ideal. Again, policy wise I mostly only have quibbles and not big concerns, whereas I certainly don't have much optimism that any other party would be any more closely aligned with my views. This election is going to be a charlie foxtrot, given how poorly all 3 major party leaders are performing. So like I said, let's hope for a minority/coalition for a year or two and some fresh blood at the top of some or all of them.

  46. #4046

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    I'd sooner take a party that stumbles (even terribly) while moving Canada in the direction I believe it should go than a regressive party & platform as light on its toes as Fred Astaire.

    Are the Liberals sometimes unethical? Absolutely. No question.

    Does their platform align closest with my values? Generally, yeah. I dig a lot of the Federal NDPs sentiments, but they always seem to have difficulty turning those sentiments into practical, implementable policy.

    I've already mostly come to terms with the fact I'm gonna be represented by a business-over-people CPC MP with views that are anathema to me, thanks to the vote splitting between Liberal, NDP & Green in a historically extremely competitive riding. Still gonna vote strategically.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  47. #4047

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    I don't think the NDP or the Greens are effective enough, and have enough support to really result in vote splitting.

    It is unfortunate, this view that "ethics doesn't matter" and I suspect that holds current sway and is the ill state of our democracy.

    I try not to read the Federal politics threads on most boards as nothing is as divisive, polarized, and subject to bias, and immutable stance, as National Political online discourse.

    Really the last several pages of this thread taken as a whole read as who has the most bias.

    While the read was adroitly conducted, and articulated well, with clever rebukes and dodging, ultimately not one view is likely to change as a result of the latest standoff. If one could call it that.


    I would say acceptance that ethics are dead or that the contravention of them is still seen to be better option than the other parties is a concerning view that has made its decision, which is resolute, regardless of the results, in term of running this country.


    So that Ethics are being explained away in context of the party that proclaimed that they were going to bring better governance. Strange times these are, probably for the past Century.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  48. #4048

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I don't think the NDP or the Greens are effective enough, and have enough support to really result in vote splitting.
    Good things statistics don't really care what you think.

    http://338canada.com/districts/48014e.htm

    Proof is in the pudding.

    Current support is 43.8% CPC & 47.6% combined NDP/Liberal. Greens are way back at a distant, but still significant 5.4%, bringing the total ABC to a majority of ~53%
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  49. #4049
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    I think Randy Boissonnault will hold his seat in Edmonton- centre. I'd bet that Amarjeet Sohi is one & done as MP for Mill Woods. Kent Hehr may be in trouble in Calgary- centre, if he's even running again. My riding of Edmonton- Strathcona will be an interesting one to watch with Linda Duncan not running again

  50. #4050

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    16% is a lot to make up. I have no desire to see Cumming in office, but statistically he's almost a shoe-in.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  51. #4051

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I don't think the NDP or the Greens are effective enough, and have enough support to really result in vote splitting.
    Good things statistics don't really care what you think.

    http://338canada.com/districts/48014e.htm

    Proof is in the pudding.

    Current support is 43.8% CPC & 47.6% combined NDP/Liberal. Greens are way back at a distant, but still significant 5.4%, bringing the total ABC to a majority of ~53%
    Fair enough. Too bad Layton, RIP, isn't still around or the National Conversation is entirely different. I only state that as the current NDP support nationally is of course a fraction of what Layton had, or would probably have.

    The point is will vote splitting be enough to limit Liberal election in ridings. Province by province I don't see that being a salient enough factor in Quebec and Ontario, where the election will be decided. The National poll breakdown is probably irrelevant.

    The Liberals certainly hold Quebec, but they hold Ontario as well.

    https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ott...gging-problem/

    Some mere vote splitting won't sway the results where this election will be won.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  52. #4052

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    The point is will vote splitting be enough to limit Liberal election in ridings. Province by province I don't see that being a salient enough factor in Quebec and Ontario, where the election will be decided.
    The point is I was very clear I was speaking about my own riding, where splitting most definitely is a factor & now you're just trying to move the goalposts so you're not completely wrong.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  53. #4053

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    The point is will vote splitting be enough to limit Liberal election in ridings. Province by province I don't see that being a salient enough factor in Quebec and Ontario, where the election will be decided.
    The point is I was very clear I was speaking about my own riding, where splitting most definitely is a factor & now you're just trying to move the goalposts so you're not completely wrong.
    Sorry, my bad, in context of the thread comments I assumed you were speaking National numbers, didn't click on the link.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  54. #4054
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    Alas I had Bombardier's Canadian workers off. But why are 26,000 workers primarily in Quebec more important than 100,000 primarily in Alberta.
    Why does Justin think shipping oil on the St. Lawrence is okay but not from Prince Rupert.
    Why does he think groping women is bad unless he is groping them.

  55. #4055

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    Will Scheer also demand that he, himself, resign?

    Ethics watchdog concerned that Scheer's office advised MP to contravene code
    Conservative MP Stephanie Kusie not to be sanctioned because she was following advice of Conservative leader

    The federal ethics watchdog says he's concerned that Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer's office encouraged a Tory MP to violate the conflict-of-interest code for members of the House of Commons.

    ---

    Indeed, Dion indicates he's troubled by the cavalier attitude Scheer's staff took toward a rule meant to prevent disclosure of an ethics complaint against an MP until that MP has been notified.


    Under the code, an MP who requests an ethics investigation is prohibited from making any public comment on the matter until the commissioner confirms that the subject of the inquiry has received a copy of the complaint, or 14 days after the request is made, whichever is earlier.


    He says Scheer's office first gave Kusie's letter to the National Post, several hours before the commissioner received it, and then urged her to post it on Facebook and Twitter.


    "I am concerned that Mrs. Kusie received information and advice from the OLO encouraging her to make public comments once the OLO had made her request public as this clearly prompted her to contravene a provision of the code," he says.


    Dion says Scheer's office urged Kusie to post her letter, despite knowing that other MPs — including Scheer himself — had previously run afoul of the code by prematurely disclosing their requests for investigations. He notes that in January 2017 the leader had been forced to apologize for public comments about a request for an investigation into Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's conduct.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sch...code-1.4932501


  56. #4056

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    Interesting that these breaches seems to have the effect of increasing public awareness and transparency vs others that are coverups. Nonetheless there are simple rules in place and few our our leaders seem to have much capacity to even follow the most basic rules.

    Not exactly mental giants.

    Slick opportunists? YES!

  57. #4057

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    Wilson-Raybould says she was contacted by RCMP amid SNC-Lavalin scandal | Globalnews.ca

    ““It’s not clear that Trudeau didn’t obstruct justice,” Spratt said. “But it’s far from clear whether there would be any reasonable prospect of conviction.”...”

    https://globalnews.ca/news/5776309/s...raybould-rcmp/

  58. #4058

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    So? If you’re poor, screw you? The PM has the backs of those in well-paying jobs:

    [quebec]
    Quebec premier backs Trudeau on trying to save jobs at SNC-Lavalin, but silent on the means PM took

    “"Whether it's in Quebec, or other provinces, it's always important that the prime minister makes sure that we do all that is possible [to protect] well-paid jobs," Legault said after an event in Sept-Îles, Que. “

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...alin-1.5250123

    [/quote]

  59. #4059

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    Protecting jobs for Canadians is one thing.

    But attempting to quietly interfere with hand-chosen criminal court cases for your party's own benefit, and then covering it up when you get caught is entirely different.

  60. #4060

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Protecting jobs for Canadians is one thing.

    But attempting to quietly interfere with hand-chosen criminal court cases for your party's own benefit, and then covering it up when you get caught is entirely different.
    And yet, you continue to support Trump?
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  61. #4061
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    I imagine lots of disgruntled liberals are casting a glance at Maxime Bernier and the PPC. Like Justin Max isn't quite ready.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  62. #4062

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    If they are, Liberals are much more likely to look to the NDP than the PPC. Bernier's party is for Conservatives who feel the Conservatives aren't conservative enough.

  63. #4063

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Protecting jobs for Canadians is one thing.

    But attempting to quietly interfere with hand-chosen criminal court cases for your party's own benefit, and then covering it up when you get caught is entirely different.
    And yet, you continue to support Trump?
    Yup, MrOilers gets a gold star


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  64. #4064

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    The one politician that I am most impressed with is Chrystia Freeland
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I imagine lots of disgruntled liberals are casting a glance at Maxime Bernier and the PPC. Like Justin Max isn't quite ready.
    I doubt it, he's off the charts in some of the things he wants..now he is all pissy , because he can't debate..typical Max.
    Animals are my passion.

  66. #4066

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    Are you the pot calling the kettle black, H.L.?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The one politician that I am most impressed with is Chrystia Freeland
    Is it those extremely tight and short dresses?

  68. #4068

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    No, she is smart and tough.

    Should have expected such a response from you.
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  69. #4069

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I imagine lots of disgruntled liberals are casting a glance at Maxime Bernier and the PPC. Like Justin Max isn't quite ready.
    I doubt it, he's off the charts in some of the things he wants..now he is all pissy , because he can't debate..typical Max.
    He wants to reduce immigration and build a fence along the border. Just like your buddy in DC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The one politician that I am most impressed with is Chrystia Freeland
    i would agree...

    marc garneau is another. so were jody wilson-raibould and jane philpott.

    there have always been some in the party that seemed to have the skills and the potential to move the party past some of its less attractive roots rather than staying mired in/embrassing them but there seems to be a ceiling - glass or otherwise - that the party is still predisposed to maintain.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The one politician that I am most impressed with is Chrystia Freeland
    Is it those extremely tight and short dresses?
    Or her pearls, she wears with everything.Or, the fact her father worked for a nazi newspaper.
    Animals are my passion.

  72. #4072

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    You got your fake news wrong

    Her father was a farmer.

    It was her Ukrainian grandfather that worked for a newspaper in Nazi occupied Poland. He is not know to have been a Nazi.

    From Wiki,
    Freeland and others have claimed that the circulation of news in 2017 regarding her grandfather's connection to Nazism was the result of a Russian disinformation campaign
    Are you suggesting that she is a Nazi sympathizer or guilty of anything that her grandfather may have done?

    Why is her grandfather even relevant to this discussion other than your attempt at character assassination?

    Why are you spreading Russian disinformation?

    Oh, that's right, that's what you do all the time. It says a lot about your poor character.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 19-08-2019 at 12:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The one politician that I am most impressed with is Chrystia Freeland
    Is it those extremely tight and short dresses?
    Or her pearls, she wears with everything.Or, the fact her father worked for a nazi newspaper.
    you're talking about - or should be talking about - her maternal grandfather, not her father...

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle34236881/

    and i would think that you - as i do - would hope to be judged on your own views and actions and statements, not those of one of your grandfathers.

    ps. the picture shows her without pearls. although being judged for your fashion choices makes about as much sense as being judged on the views and actions and statements of one of your grandfathers.
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    She would make a perfect PM. She is disliked by China and USA and banned from Russia.

  75. #4075

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The one politician that I am most impressed with is Chrystia Freeland
    Is it those extremely tight and short dresses?
    Or her pearls, she wears with everything.Or, the fact her father worked for a nazi newspaper.
    Really bad post HL. None of us should be judged on the sins of our forefathers.

    Not even JT...
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  76. #4076
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The one politician that I am most impressed with is Chrystia Freeland
    Is it those extremely tight and short dresses?
    Or her pearls, she wears with everything.Or, the fact her father worked for a nazi newspaper.
    Really bad post HL. None of us should be judged on the sins of our forefathers.

    Not even JT...
    Right, if that were Kenney's father, or Scheers father, it would be fair game.

    I can't stand her, she's such a pearl clutcher, perhaps that's why she wears them ALL the time.

    On another forum, she is often called MM( as in minnie mouse.).I don't know why, haven't bothered to ask.

    JT is just like his old man, rules do not apply to JT..
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  77. #4077
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The one politician that I am most impressed with is Chrystia Freeland
    Is it those extremely tight and short dresses?
    Or her pearls, she wears with everything.Or, the fact her father worked for a nazi newspaper.
    you're talking about - or should be talking about - her maternal grandfather, not her father...

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle34236881/

    and i would think that you - as i do - would hope to be judged on your own views and actions and statements, not those of one of your grandfathers.

    ps. the picture shows her without pearls. although being judged for your fashion choices makes about as much sense as being judged on the views and actions and statements of one of your grandfathers.
    That photo was before her makeover..I'm not judging on just her pearls, she's a mouthpiece for JT.
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  78. #4078

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The one politician that I am most impressed with is Chrystia Freeland
    Is it those extremely tight and short dresses?
    Or her pearls, she wears with everything.Or, the fact her father worked for a nazi newspaper.
    Really bad post HL. None of us should be judged on the sins of our forefathers.

    Not even JT...
    Right, if that were Kenney's father, or Scheers father, it would be fair game.

    I can't stand her, she's such a pearl clutcher, perhaps that's why she wears them ALL the time.

    On another forum, she is often called MM( as in minnie mouse.).I don't know why, haven't bothered to ask.

    JT is just like his old man, rules do not apply to JT..
    Regardless of our stance the basis and reasons in which we evaluate others should not be unfounded judgement. You were wrong, and wrong to use such poor form judgement.

    Ideally you would accept that and move on. To not do that limits your own perspective, and colors what you state.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  79. #4079
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    She would make a perfect PM. She is disliked by China and USA and banned from Russia.

    LOL. She should keep her tweets to herself, wtf is is with these liberals?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The one politician that I am most impressed with is Chrystia Freeland
    Is it those extremely tight and short dresses?
    Or her pearls, she wears with everything.Or, the fact her father worked for a nazi newspaper.
    Really bad post HL. None of us should be judged on the sins of our forefathers.

    Not even JT...
    although it is fair to be judged for continuing to perpetuate the sins of your forefathers.

    even JT...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  81. #4081

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    ^heh, well stated, Consensus reached on that one.

    The real question is whether subsequent Trudeau heirs perpetuate the sins of their forefathers. Thankfully, perhaps, we won't be around for those rounds.
    Last edited by Replacement; 19-08-2019 at 01:24 PM.
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  82. #4082

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    She would make a perfect PM. She is disliked by China and USA and banned from Russia.

    LOL. She should keep her tweets to herself, wtf is is with these liberals?
    Another asinine and hypocritical comment from you who supports Trump's daily tweet storm of lies.

    But you cannot see that you have a double standard, attacking liberals and supporting exponentially worse from conservatives.

    I also see that you stated that you were posting 'fact' when it was 'false' information and never apologized for posting lies.

    I guess lies run in YOUR family.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 19-08-2019 at 01:09 PM.
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    Could see that one coming. It’s a tweety world of twits.

  84. #4084
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Could see that one coming. It’s a tweety world of twits.
    I don't understand twitter twits, I don't like it, but then I'm not on it. I only know someone is on it, when the media mentions it..
    I hate when everything, is follow me on twitter..what am I missing? SBA that's what..LOL
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  85. #4085

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You got your fake news wrong

    Her father was a farmer.

    It was her Ukrainian grandfather that worked for a newspaper in Nazi occupied Poland. He is not know to have been a Nazi.

    From Wiki,
    Freeland and others have claimed that the circulation of news in 2017 regarding her grandfather's connection to Nazism was the result of a Russian disinformation campaign
    Are you suggesting that she is a Nazi sympathizer or guilty of anything that her grandfather may have done?

    Why is her grandfather even relevant to this discussion other than your attempt at character assassination?

    Why are you spreading Russian disinformation?

    Oh, that's right, that's what you do all the time. It says a lot about your poor character.
    It doesn't matter if the information is correct or not, just as long as it gets them damn liberuls hyuk hyuk hyuk. #factsdontmatter #RahRahGoSportsTeamGo!!
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    As long as the politicians have everyone feuding amongst themselves they are laughing as this is their primary objective. The best way to pick someone’s pocket is provide a major distraction. All of the politicians have us by the short ones as they and their friends line their pockets. I’m staying out of the political nattering for now. 99% of politicians should be the first to colonize the moon imo. Community volunteer committees should take over. No more paid shills.

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    While I disagreed with Pierre's politics at least he had intelligence. Justin has committed enough sins that we can judge him. I just hope there are enough voters in Ontario and Quebec that vote against him. I'm not sure Canada will remain intact with another 4 years of Justin

  88. #4088

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    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/jihadi...nada-1.5251437

    Good for Britain, stripping these individuals of their citizenship. A county needs to look after it's citizens first, not dual citizens implicated in terrorist activities. Too bad our stupid boy wonder said "A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian".. even if the person is a dual citizen and is a terrorist.
    Why is JT upset that the UK is looking after it's interests first ??? Perhaps if he actually looked after Canada first we could have stripped this individual of his Canadian citizenship first. What a dangerous person JT is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/jihadi...nada-1.5251437

    Good for Britain, stripping these individuals of their citizenship. A county needs to look after it's citizens first, not dual citizens implicated in terrorist activities. Too bad our stupid boy wonder said "A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian".. even if the person is a dual citizen and is a terrorist.
    Why is JT upset that the UK is looking after it's interests first ??? Perhaps if he actually looked after Canada first we could have stripped this individual of his Canadian citizenship first. What a dangerous person JT is.
    at least he hasn't apologized to jihadi jack for canada's role in making him what he is either by commission or omission and written a cheque for millions in compensation...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  90. #4090

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    "The Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, every one of us, even when it is uncomfortable. This is not about the details or merits of the Khadr case. When the government violates any Canadian's Charter rights we all end up paying for it,"
    The Canadian government violated a Canada-born Canadian's Canadian Charter's rights. Full stop. No ifs ands or buts.

    "It is not about previous behaviour on the battlefield in Afghanistan; it is about the acts and other decisions the Canadian government took against Mr. Khadr after he was captured and detained," Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale said Friday. "Those facts are not in dispute and there is no doubt about how the Supreme Court views them. The government of Canada offended the most basic standards."
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...hadr-1.4196183
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  91. #4091

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    This case is different that the Khadar case ok.. but.. I would not rule out the possibility that JT will make him an offer to come to Canada, then get some sort of compensation. What JT has essentially done with his legislation is he has single handily Canada handcuffed Canada into never being able to do what the UK has done, in ANY case. I only hope the next Govt will undo what he has done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/jihadi...nada-1.5251437

    Good for Britain, stripping these individuals of their citizenship. A county needs to look after it's citizens first, not dual citizens implicated in terrorist activities. Too bad our stupid boy wonder said "A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian".. even if the person is a dual citizen and is a terrorist.
    Why is JT upset that the UK is looking after it's interests first ??? Perhaps if he actually looked after Canada first we could have stripped this individual of his Canadian citizenship first. What a dangerous person JT is.
    at least he hasn't apologized to jihadi jack for canada's role in making him what he is either by commission or omission and written a cheque for millions in compensation...
    Yet, he hasn't apologized, yet.
    Well played UK!
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    ^^^

    so, is canada violating jack letts' charter rights by not working diligently to free him from his current circumstances in a kurdish jail without trial and in conditions that would be considered abhorrent in canada?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  94. #4094

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    What you're describing with Jack is a lack of effort by Canadian officials on behalf of a Canadian citizen.

    What happened with Omar was deliberate actions taken by the (Conservative) Canadian government specifically to deprive a Canadian citizen his Canadian Charter rights.

    Not really the same.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    I can't believe how many people still don't understand the Omar case, or use it at an opportunity to suggest our government sympathizes with terrorists. Sorry Ken I think this is another case of you having blinders on when it comes to the Trudeau government.

  96. #4096

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    ^^^

    so, is canada violating jack letts' charter rights by not working diligently to free him from his current circumstances in a kurdish jail without trial and in conditions that would be considered abhorrent in canada?
    I'm guessing by the standards of the area (Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran), the Kurds probably look fairly good in comparison. Aren't they even our allies against ISIS et al? This is not a case of an innocent traveler being caught up by an oppressive regime.

  97. #4097

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    I see that H.L. refuses to correct her lies about Freeland.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/jihadi...nada-1.5251437

    Good for Britain, stripping these individuals of their citizenship. A county needs to look after it's citizens first, not dual citizens implicated in terrorist activities. Too bad our stupid boy wonder said "A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian".. even if the person is a dual citizen and is a terrorist.
    Why is JT upset that the UK is looking after it's interests first ??? Perhaps if he actually looked after Canada first we could have stripped this individual of his Canadian citizenship first. What a dangerous person JT is.
    Completely disagree. The UK government deserves to be condemned in the strongest possible terms for taking this unilateral action. Jack Letts was born in the UK, grew up in the UK, and was radicalized in the UK. Letts only connection to Canada is that he holds dual citizenship through his father who was born in Canada and moved to the UK.

    A responsible national government would take responsibility for its own citizen, and if he does return, ensure he is prosecuted for terrorism offences there.

    Should Canada follow the UK's lead, which in the exceptional circumstances of this case they have every right to do, rescinding his citizenship would render Letts stateless. While such an action might be emotionally satisfying, it would then become impossible to prosecute Letts for his alleged crimes in either Canada, the UK or any other country.

  99. #4099

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/jihadi...nada-1.5251437

    Good for Britain, stripping these individuals of their citizenship. A county needs to look after it's citizens first, not dual citizens implicated in terrorist activities. Too bad our stupid boy wonder said "A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian".. even if the person is a dual citizen and is a terrorist.
    Why is JT upset that the UK is looking after it's interests first ??? Perhaps if he actually looked after Canada first we could have stripped this individual of his Canadian citizenship first. What a dangerous person JT is.
    Completely disagree. The UK government deserves to be condemned in the strongest possible terms for taking this unilateral action. Jack Letts was born in the UK, grew up in the UK, and was radicalized in the UK. Letts only connection to Canada is that he holds dual citizenship through his father who was born in Canada and moved to the UK.

    A responsible national government would take responsibility for its own citizen, and if he does return, ensure he is prosecuted for terrorism offences there.

    Should Canada follow the UK's lead, which in the exceptional circumstances of this case they have every right to do, rescinding his citizenship would render Letts stateless. While such an action might be emotionally satisfying, it would then become impossible to prosecute Letts for his alleged crimes in either Canada, the UK or any other country.
    I wonder how the UK would like it if Canada terminated the citizenship of every dual citizen that had been charged with a crime and dumped all those problems on them? Probably not so much. The government of the UK is acting like twats on this, but I suppose that's not surprising as its led by one and their country is a huge self created mess now anyways.

  100. #4100

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    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    This case is different that the Khadar case ok.. but.. I would not rule out the possibility that JT will make him an offer to come to Canada, then get some sort of compensation. What JT has essentially done with his legislation is he has single handily Canada handcuffed Canada into never being able to do what the UK has done, in ANY case. I only hope the next Govt will undo what he has done.
    Yes, that's exactly what I want to see. The Prime Minister being the sole arbiter of who is or is not a Canadian. Seeing as Kenney has established a "war room" to go after pipeline opponents, maybe he would ask Scheer to remove citizenship from people who protest against oil and gas projects.Give it a catch name like "economic terrorism" just to make it all nice and legal.

    Meanwhile Stephen Harper expedited permanent resident status for Conrad Black who gave up his Canadian citizenship and then was charged, convicted and jailed in the US. Criminal? Move to the head of the line under Conservatives.

    And then there was Brenda Martin

    Freed from prison, Brenda Martin wants to go back to Mexico
    Posted: Dec 30, 2008

    The Canadian woman who threatened suicide to get out of a Mexican jail says she misses the beach and would happily return to Mexico if she could.


    "I could say right now that if the Mexican government was to give me a pardon, I would go back," Brenda Martin wrote in an article titled I Languished in a Mexican Prison, published online at the social media website Orato.


    Martin was accused of being part of a multimillion-dollar internet fraud scheme. She was convicted of money laundering in Mexico earlier this year and sentenced to five years in prison without parole. In addition to the prison sentence, Martin was fined 35,800 pesos, or around $3,180.


    Martin spent more than two years in a jail outside Guadalajara before being sentenced — and her imprisonment became a cause célèbre in Canada with thousands of people, including high-profile politicians, taking up her case.


    Prime Minister Stephen Harper phoned Mexican President Felipe Calderon in March to discuss the file. Maxime Bernier, at the time the foreign affairs minister, spoke to his Mexican counterpart about Martin. ---

    In April, after pleading guilty to the money laundering charges, Martin was released and allowed to return to Canada to serve her sentence.


    The Canadian government loaned Martin the money to pay her $3,180 fine.


    The Correctional Service of Canada then chartered a private plane to bring her home — at a reported cost of $82,000.

    ---

    "Eight days into the Kitchener, Ont., prison, I was ready to go back to Mexico! I would much rather be in a Mexican prison than a Canadian one," she said.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...exico-1.720356

    Should the government have intervened?
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 20-08-2019 at 11:40 AM.

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