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Thread: Stanley Milner Library Exterior Redesign

  1. #1501

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DTrobotnik View Post
    i'll just leave this here for some reflection

    How ironic, with those words being splashed on some bland box piece of crap.
    Well you have to give credit to the guy on the 80 foot step ladder who painted the sign. He took quite a risk. LOL
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 21-07-2019 at 09:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    I weep silently whenever I see this...

    But hopefully the interior will make up for the exterior.
    Don's get your hopes up. Expect lots of huge expanses of boringly bare white walls.




    Not this

    Per the first exterior renders, the interior should be anything but expanses of white walls. Y'see, I have no faith in flight of fancy renders.
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  3. #1503

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    Do any of the architects or construction folk on this forum know how much it would be to throw a clear coat with metallic flakes or another layer of paint infused with metallic flakes on the library? I think some shine would go a long way in making it look cooler and less imposing.

    Quote Originally Posted by SVTperformance.com


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    The finale product isn't done yet. I think people are overreacting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Do any of the architects or construction folk on this forum know how much it would be to throw a clear coat with metallic flakes or another layer of paint infused with metallic flakes on the library? I think some shine would go a long way in making it look cooler and less imposing.
    ...
    that's kind of like thinking a pontiac aztec or a volkswagen thing could be made beautiful with a new paint job...

    the issue is less the material or it's colour than it is the ungainly and awkward proportions and angles of the renovation/addition.

    on the other hand, it is one if the few things they could have done that actually makes the library parkade entrance on 100 street look playful and colourful (which probably means it will get redone with the south plaza so as not to show up the library ).
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    The finale product isn't done yet. I think people are overreacting.
    What? They are going to add a new smooth layer over the corrugated look? If you're saying wait until the construction is complete and the roadwork is done - and people will see things differently and love - your wrong. The construction clutter is currently a distraction and once removed the ugliness of corrugated panels will stand out further. No amount of lipstick on this pig will improve it other than a new skin. We need a global kickstarter program to raise $$ to replace that barn siding with something befitting the capital city in its most important square. This project is a complete **** up. The Library Board and its yappy President deserve all the criticism they are getting. Frankly fire the CEO.

  7. #1507

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    The finale product isn't done yet. I think people are overreacting.
    What? They are going to add a new smooth layer over the corrugated look? If you're saying wait until the construction is complete and the roadwork is done - and people will see things differently and love - your wrong. The construction clutter is currently a distraction and once removed the ugliness of corrugated panels will stand out further. No amount of lipstick on this pig will improve it other than a new skin. We need a global kickstarter program to raise $$ to replace that barn siding with something befitting the capital city in its most important square. This project is a complete **** up. The Library Board and its yappy President deserve all the criticism they are getting. Frankly fire the CEO.

    You would expect that from the CEO who only most likely cares about the experience inside (I don't think the CEO comes from a business environment, most likely went up through the ranks). Question is, was this raised in front of City Council to inform them that the exterior is going to look horrible and given that this the most prominent location in the City, they needed to inject some additional$ to rectify the budget shortfalls?

    Lot of questions, with very little in terms of meaningful answers. Damage is already done.

  8. #1508

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    Maybe coat the library with invisible paint and make it disappear...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Maybe coat the library with invisible paint and make it disappear...
    With extreme offense man.....could you please cut it out with the negative comments on this thing. Point taken - you hate it - not everyone does.....give it a rest....

  10. #1510

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Do any of the architects or construction folk on this forum know how much it would be to throw a clear coat with metallic flakes or another layer of paint infused with metallic flakes on the library? I think some shine would go a long way in making it look cooler and less imposing.
    ...
    that's kind of like thinking a pontiac aztec or a volkswagen thing could be made beautiful with a new paint job...

    the issue is less the material or it's colour than it is the ungainly and awkward proportions and angles of the renovation/addition.

    on the other hand, it is one if the few things they could have done that actually makes the library parkade entrance on 100 street look playful and colourful (which probably means it will get redone with the south plaza so as not to show up the library ).
    I know some literal gloss won't cure the overall issues with the structure, but whats done is done. They're not going to spend the money to re-do it for another fifty years. We may be able to convince them to throw an extra coat of paint on it, if its not to expensive. To use your analogy, we're now stuck with the Aztec; would you rather it stay a flat colour, or would your rather we at least glam it up a bit?

  11. #1511

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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Maybe coat the library with invisible paint and make it disappear...
    With extreme offense man.....could you please cut it out with the negative comments on this thing. Point taken - you hate it - not everyone does.....give it a rest....
    Oh, testy are we? Bad day at the office?
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Maybe coat the library with invisible paint and make it disappear...
    With extreme offense man.....could you please cut it out with the negative comments on this thing. Point taken - you hate it - not everyone does.....give it a rest....
    Where's my Like button?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Do any of the architects or construction folk on this forum know how much it would be to throw a clear coat with metallic flakes or another layer of paint infused with metallic flakes on the library? I think some shine would go a long way in making it look cooler and less imposing.
    ...
    that's kind of like thinking a pontiac aztec or a volkswagen thing could be made beautiful with a new paint job...

    the issue is less the material or it's colour than it is the ungainly and awkward proportions and angles of the renovation/addition.

    on the other hand, it is one if the few things they could have done that actually makes the library parkade entrance on 100 street look playful and colourful (which probably means it will get redone with the south plaza so as not to show up the library ).
    I know some literal gloss won't cure the overall issues with the structure, but whats done is done. They're not going to spend the money to re-do it for another fifty years. We may be able to convince them to throw an extra coat of paint on it, if its not to expensive. To use your analogy, we're now stuck with the Aztec; would you rather it stay a flat colour, or would your rather we at least glam it up a bit?
    i don't believe it's possible to "glam it up a bit". (a) it is what it is, and (b) anything you try and "glam it up" with is only going to high-light, not hide.

    the best thing we can do at this point is give it a fitting nick-name and make the most of it. austin has "keep austin weird", maybe we could see how much we could play up "biblio-tank" or some of the other creative monikers that have been put forward?

    maybe we can do an ad campaign like vegas' "what happens in vegas stays in vegas" but ours could feature "tanks for the memories"?

    maybe we can sell glass fish-tanks that look like the library?

    maybe we can have a black and white and grey film festival?

    maybe we can declare the south plaza a grey zone for telling off-color jokes?

    maybe we can add a hitching post reserved for the old grey mare?

    maybe we could make early grey our civic drink? or do an entire menu featuring early grey?

    and maybe while we're at it we can also look at the processes that enabled this to happen in the first place so it doesn't happen again?
    Last edited by kcantor; 22-07-2019 at 06:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Maybe coat the library with invisible paint and make it disappear...
    With extreme offense man.....could you please cut it out with the negative comments on this thing. Point taken - you hate it - not everyone does.....give it a rest....
    Just put Edmonton PRT on your Ignore List - just about everyone else has done so.
    Maybe he will finally find a life outside of this forum.
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  15. #1515

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    kcantor, you're going make maclac cry

    With extreme offense man.....could you please cut it out with the negative comments on this thing. Point taken - you hate it - not everyone does.....give it a rest....

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    I’m so upset with the design of this new library. We’re stuck with this pos for another five decades. Ugh. Of all Canadian cities, why does Edmonton keep building this junk?
    Last edited by Bill; 22-07-2019 at 10:17 PM.

  18. #1518

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    Bill, as I told kcantor, you're going make maclac cry

    With extreme offense man.....could you please cut it out with the negative comments on this thing. Point taken - you hate it - not everyone does.....give it a rest....

    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  19. #1519

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Funny that, I was thinking an hour ago that they should cover it with ivy and turn it into a 'green' building...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  20. #1520

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Do any of the architects or construction folk on this forum know how much it would be to throw a clear coat with metallic flakes or another layer of paint infused with metallic flakes on the library? I think some shine would go a long way in making it look cooler and less imposing.
    ...
    that's kind of like thinking a pontiac aztec or a volkswagen thing could be made beautiful with a new paint job...

    the issue is less the material or it's colour than it is the ungainly and awkward proportions and angles of the renovation/addition.

    on the other hand, it is one if the few things they could have done that actually makes the library parkade entrance on 100 street look playful and colourful (which probably means it will get redone with the south plaza so as not to show up the library ).
    I know some literal gloss won't cure the overall issues with the structure, but whats done is done. They're not going to spend the money to re-do it for another fifty years. We may be able to convince them to throw an extra coat of paint on it, if its not to expensive. To use your analogy, we're now stuck with the Aztec; would you rather it stay a flat colour, or would your rather we at least glam it up a bit?
    i don't believe it's possible to "glam it up a bit". (a) it is what it is, and (b) anything you try and "glam it up" with is only going to high-light, not hide.

    the best thing we can do at this point is give it a fitting nick-name and make the most of it. austin has "keep austin weird", maybe we could see how much we could play up "biblio-tank" or some of the other creative monikers that have been put forward?

    maybe we can do an ad campaign like vegas' "what happens in vegas stays in vegas" but ours could feature "tanks for the memories"?

    maybe we can sell glass fish-tanks that look like the library?

    maybe we can have a black and white and grey film festival?

    maybe we can declare the south plaza a grey zone for telling off-color jokes?

    maybe we can add a hitching post reserved for the old grey mare?

    maybe we could make early grey our civic drink? or do an entire menu featuring early grey?

    and maybe while we're at it we can also look at the processes that enabled this to happen in the first place so it doesn't happen again?
    Paint some horizontal lines on it to make it look like rows of books on shelves, with the odd book tilted one way or the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Funny that, I was thinking an hour ago that they should cover it with ivy and turn it into a 'green' building...
    that only works in edmonton 4 or 5 months a year, not the other 7 or 8 (we tried that for hall d). for most of the year you would hardly even see the grey branches in front of the grey zinc.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  22. #1522

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    Hey maclac, can you cut it out with your positive comments on this thing? Many of us don't like it... give it a rest.


    Just kidding. I encourage everyone to share their opinions. That's what this place is for. Debate. Discussion. Sharing of Opinions. The world would be a very boring place is we all liked the same thing and shared the same opinions. Regardless of whether you like this project or don't, or are indifferent either way, discussion is good.

    MACLAC. If you don't like a poster, just use the ignore function, like SDM has suggested. I'm sure he has me and everyone else on ignore already, unless you have pom-poms out and cheer on everything. "It's okay, its only Edmonton, we can accept mediocrity"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    kcantor, you're going make maclac cry

    With extreme offense man.....could you please cut it out with the negative comments on this thing. Point taken - you hate it - not everyone does.....give it a rest....

    "Make me cry?" I'm starting to think that perhaps - you were fired from the EPL system as a page back in the day - cuz you couldn't figure out the "dewey decimal point" system - ergo why you started this "smear campaign" against the Milner and hence trying to get your name in the news?

  24. #1524

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    I'm starting to thing maclac works for EPL and can't stand that people don't love the new biblotank.

  25. #1525
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    kcantor, you're going make maclac cry

    With extreme offense man.....could you please cut it out with the negative comments on this thing. Point taken - you hate it - not everyone does.....give it a rest....

    "Make me cry?" I'm starting to think that perhaps - you were fired from the EPL system as a page back in the day - cuz you couldn't figure out the "dewey decimal point" system - ergo why you started this "smear campaign" against the Milner and hence trying to get your name in the news?
    it was the dewey decimal classification (ddc). it was/is sometimes called the dewey decimal system but never - to my knowledge - "dewey decimal point" system and i spent lots of time rifling through those cards on rails in their miniature drawers before it went electronic.

    https://mcpl.info/childrens/how-use-...decimal-system
    Last edited by kcantor; 23-07-2019 at 08:51 AM.
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    Funny that you mention that - I did back in the mid 80's - but NO affiliation with them anymore - 1st job - paid $3.86/hr. Ken - pretty sure it was/is still called the "dewey decimal POINT" system.

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  28. #1528
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    Never a bad time to reference UHF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHoHaAYHq8

  29. #1529

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I'm starting to thing maclac works for EPL and can't stand that people don't love the new biblotank.

    Bibliotank. I’m starting to like it.

    So the design is a nod to our history of book mobiles!

    We can add the Milner into the collection:





    Or it’s design is symbolic of Edmonton’s history in many other ways (industry, diversity, non-elitism):


    Just Getting Started


    Hill was not a blushing fan of popular culture. For generations, librar- ians of taste have smuggled smutty crime novels out of the building in their briefcases, careful not to reveal their pop desires. Hill was equally concerned about the dangers_political, social and cultural_of elitism. From the board minutes and from the annual reports it is easy to detect
    a considerable streak of sensitivity in his writing; Hill constantly argued
    that libraries were for everyone, not just a highly educated, refined class of Edmontonians with grand houses in the correct neighbourhoods.

    He wanted city managers and politicians to understand that this “substantial literature” was moving through every apartment and house in the city, and changing lives. University graduates were taking books from the library but so were plumbers and bricklayers.
    “The proportion of registered borrowers, with regard to occupation, for example, is closely parallel to the proportion as determined from the city directory. For example, the proportion of mechanics on the library register is about the same as the proportion of mechanics in the direc- tory. This distribution ought to be gratifying to the Board as proving the general usefulness of the institution entrusted to their care. No one class of the community is being favoured at the expense of any other class.”2


    Pg. 67-68



    “The men and women being displaced by machines and mergers are being displaced faster than our economic structure can absorb them. These surplus unemployed will have to ‘learn or perish.’ There must be some provision for alternative training. The public library is a most important factor in this re-education.”2

    Re-education may have been a way out of the Depression, but that didn’t prevent staff shortages and fewer book orders, fewer programs, fewer hours. One of the chief assistants of the Edmonton Public Library and, for a few years, acting chief librarian, Grace Dobie, looked back on the 1930s as a time of surprise and wonder.

    “Our greatest circulation and our highest point in purchases were reached during the Depression years, particularly in 1932. It is remark- able how closely our circulation follows prosperity, in an inverse ratio.”3

    Pg.99


    “When he arrived in Edmonton, Maloney was not impressed by the cultural diversity of the city. Too many people from other places, too much immigration in general, too much racial intermarriage, too much French spoken, too many Catholics. His reading and his recent experi- ences had drawn him to become a member of an American organization called the Ku Klux Klan_based on Anglo-Saxon purity and “moral virtue.”4 At a time of high unemployment, the idea that immigrants were both muddying up the ethnic mix and taking jobs from Edmonton’s accent-less,...”

    Pg. 83


    “The bill was, of course, unpopular with librarians. If censorship can happen to newspapers it can and will happen in libraries: ...”


    Pg. 90


    “Hill was having trouble making his plea for support. The staff was thin, and thinning, and the budget for new books was minuscule.

    “There was very little controversy,” says historian Tony Cashman. “When Ethelbert Hill was running the library it did not get involved in moulding public opinion. The library, then, was very solemn. A bit more quiet than the church down the street. They were sort of like temples, which is maybe why so many were designed like temples.”
    ...
    Pg 91


    https://www2.epl.ca/public-files/boo...tarted_web.pdf
    Last edited by KC; 23-07-2019 at 03:13 PM.

  30. #1530

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Funny that, I was thinking an hour ago that they should cover it with ivy and turn it into a 'green' building...
    that only works in edmonton 4 or 5 months a year, not the other 7 or 8 (we tried that for hall d). for most of the year you would hardly even see the grey branches in front of the grey zinc.
    It would work if they picked up some fake ivy at the dollar store.

  31. #1531

  32. #1532

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    Funny. Creative too!!


    Read the pages in the book I linked to in the post above, #1529. Start on page 67.

    We might all see this design as symbolic in a far more positive light.




    The library, then, was very solemn. A bit more quiet than the church down the street. They were sort of like temples, which is maybe why so many were designed like temples.”

    ...
    Pg 91

    https://www2.epl.ca/public-files/boo...tarted_web.pdf
    Last edited by KC; 23-07-2019 at 03:20 PM.

  33. #1533

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    Symbolic lipstick on a literal pig doesn't make the pig any more appealing.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  34. #1534

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Symbolic lipstick on a literal pig doesn't make the pig any more appealing.
    Symbolism is often just that, otherwise it’s likely really reflective of something else.

    Moreover, pigs are smart and broadly mischaracterized. It’s those that think otherwise that overestimate their own intelligence.

  35. #1535

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    It's a turn of phrase, not a thesis on the intelligence of porcine mammals.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  36. #1536

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    It's a turn of phrase, not a thesis on the intelligence of porcine mammals.
    And there’s many forms of beauty so I neither have to accept the first impression nor the dominant media spin.

  37. #1537

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    Ugliness is zinc deep...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  38. #1538

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    Me either. My belief about it being an ugly, malformed building dates back to before construction started & it's turned out even worse than anticipated, cementing the Milner as one of the ugliest, least appealing buildings in a city that's full of architectural blunders.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  39. #1539

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    anytime a project needs to get value engineered as much as this one has from the original inspiration to what we have now, it's better to just start over I feel. Value engineering any value out of the structure - might as well just have built a functional box.

  40. #1540

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    Agreed, should have went back to the drawing board for something that fits the budget. Perhaps a good thing Tower B is going back to drawing board so many times?

  41. #1541

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    The ugly truth: the beauty of ugliness | Thinkpiece | Architectural Review

    “When the designers were working on the jacket of my new book, someone suggested including a question mark after the title and giving the whole a mirror finish. Curious browsers would be immediately confronted with a deadly question. How beautiful are you?”...

    “...The tides of taste go back and forth, erasing aesthetic certainties. This is a truth so disturbing that most of our assumptions about art are immediately and ruinously undermined. For example, two years before it was finished, ...”

    “Thus Ferrari, with impeccable credentials in the manufacture of gorgeous automobile sculpture, has not made a beautiful car for a long time: its signature curves have been stolen by Koreans.

    So, at the end of beauty’s road, Ferrari design is seeking confrontation. ...”

    https://www.architectural-review.com...641754.article


    Old news but says a lot about our resistance to different look things


    Art or Eyesore? The Eiffel Tower History You Probably Didn't Know — The Anthrotorian


    ...Though the tower is now considered to be a cultural and global icon of France, beloved by the majority of its citizens, this was not always the case.

    “Some of the most influential members of the art establishment banded together in a group called The Committee of Three Hundred in order to defend what they considered to be “the untouched beauty of Paris”.

    They insisted that the “metal asparagus”, a useless monstrosity, would humiliate and overshadow beloved monuments like Notre Dame, the Louvre, and the Arc de Triomphe.

    To them, it was an ugly and overblown work of engineering. “

    https://theanthrotorian.com/art/2012...art-or-eyesore


    ... and how we can also get used to living with a lot of crap - if it’s got the right spin behind it.


    Meet the man who ruined a century of cities: Mallick | The Star



    Who would you travel back in time to kill? For humanity’s benefit, I mean. It’s one of those trick questions designed for insomnia or a long bus trip and last night, awake until 3 a.m., I answered it.

    It would be Le Corbusier, the Swiss twit who did more damage to built structures than the Luftwaffe. Architects have a lot to answer for but they have been fighting an uphill battle since Le Corbusier slithered into Paris in 1907 and began persuading the world that buildings should be ugly. Architecture lost, we all lost. (He wanted to level Paris. Online, view that vision. It looks like a highrise prison camp.)

    If you think the glass towers that clog Toronto — with their cheap construction, dearth of beauty and their ability to turn a room into both a freezer and an easy-bake oven — are reprehensible, meet the man who started it all.

    ...
    Wolfe wrote in a troublemaking little 1981 book called From Bauhaus to Our House that anyone who questioned the International Style was reprimanded. “These days, it’s too expensive to build in any other style.” But, said Wolfe, “It was not too expensive, merely more expensive. The critical point was what people would or would not put up with esthetically.”

    Look at Toronto today. We’ll put up with pretty much anything. ...


    ...”

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/comm...s_mallick.html
    Last edited by KC; 23-07-2019 at 06:38 PM.

  42. #1542

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Me either. My belief about it being an ugly, malformed building dates back to before construction started & it's turned out even worse than anticipated, cementing the Milner as one of the ugliest, least appealing buildings in a city that's full of architectural blunders.

    I don't agree. The Milner was a nice building with clean lines, good proportions, warm colors and nicely sited on the property to welcome users. The interior was nice by 1970's standards and needed updating, especially the lighting (too much florescent) , windows and central skylights.

    The addition to the main entrance IMHO hampered both the exterior and interior appearance. The north side became congested due to the expansion and conflicts with pedestrians and people waiting for buses.
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  43. #1543

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    I liked the original the way it was and subsequent changes has seemed to degrade the original.

  44. #1544

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    PRT: I was speaking to all of the renovation renders. Not a single one has been aesthetically appealing to me.

    The old building was lovely prior to the 90s renovations.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  45. #1545

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    Sat in the square for lunch the other day and just looked at the library for an hour. The problem I see is the use of the light coloured zinc and the standing seem installation. Or at least the orientation of the seems. they are perpendicular to the actual lines of the building. There is also a lack of windows, its as if when cutting the budget they decided to cut out windows. Proportions are all wrong on this building.

  46. #1546

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    PRT: I was speaking to all of the renovation renders. Not a single one has been aesthetically appealing to me.

    The old building was lovely prior to the 90s renovations.
    I completely agree. However I didn’t mind the renderings prior to redesign. Just feels like we got cat-fished on an architectural tinder date.

  47. #1547

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    A beautiful bunker

    BBC - Culture - The most tranquil library in the world?

    http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/201...y-in-the-world

  48. #1548
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalancedOP View Post
    Sat in the square for lunch the other day and just looked at the library for an hour. The problem I see is the use of the light coloured zinc and the standing seem installation. Or at least the orientation of the seems. they are perpendicular to the actual lines of the building. There is also a lack of windows, its as if when cutting the budget they decided to cut out windows. Proportions are all wrong on this building.
    It’s a total CLUSTERFRICK. Makes this City look cheap, desperate, and is overbearing on Sir Winston Churchill Square.

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    Well City Council has the perfect view of this mess from city hall so I hope they enjoy it every day

  50. #1550

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Well City Council has the perfect view of this mess from city hall so I hope they enjoy it every day
    Oh my. The symbolism it evokes.

    The seat of government (of control over the people, of imposition of rules for the people, of forced uniformity) sitting in a highly symmetrical building looking out across the park (a park they paved over) at an asymmetrical seat of learning that reflects knowledge coming and going in all directions, much of the light of knowledge being blocked but bits of it entering the building and transforming lives... from the outside the vertical seams drawing the eyes towards the sky and the universe beyond... the City Hall, a rock and glass edifice anchored to the ground and the Library a ship of knowledge looking like it’s ready to take off to explore the universe... Yadda yadda yadda...

    But yes, it’s still rather ungainly and ugly.

    And grey.
    Last edited by KC; 12-08-2019 at 07:23 AM.

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    Look on the bright side - the mess caused by the City Hall revamp and the LRT construction is taking away some attention from the library so city council may be distracted and unfocused.

    Hey wait - city council is usually distracted and unfocused anyways.

  52. #1552

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    Finally drove by this "masterpiece" this week on an downtown trip and was astounded at how much worse this looks from closer up. The outside skin looks twisted and warped in places. I've seen far better looking farm machine sheds.

  53. #1553

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    I also walked by the library recently. The Kennedale Eco Station looks prettier than this.

  54. #1554

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    Maybe.....




    It's official: Seattle's 'Sinking Ship' garage now the 'Coolest Parking Spot in America'

    https://komonews.com/news/local/its-...pot-in-america

  55. #1555

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    Grey concrete is in again?

    As for the library, I still feel that the choice of grey makes it seem somewhat drab. A bright colour on some trim work might change its entire appearance.

    As for the heavy use of metal cladding. Even that can be acceptable.

  56. #1556
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    Do we know for sure whether what's there now is the final skin of the building or not? They've taken down much of the scaffolding and it almost feels like they're wrapping things up to a certain extent from my walk by this afternoon.

    I mean the way it looks now isn't dissimilar to the NW Police HQ which is from the same team to my understanding...



    City Hall really effed this up worse than I even thought if it is.
    Last edited by Aaron_Lloyd; 21-08-2019 at 02:08 PM.

  57. #1557

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron_Lloyd View Post
    Do we know for sure whether what's there now is the final skin of the building or not? They've taken down much of the scaffolding and it almost feels like they're wrapping things up to a certain extent from my walk by this afternoon.

    I mean the way it looks now isn't dissimilar to the NW Police HQ which is from the same team to my understanding...



    City Hall really effed this up worse than I even thought if it is.
    It sure is different on the early pictures that were put out to sell the public on this project. From what I have gathered here, it seems like some other parts of the project went over budget, so they cut back on the exterior finish.

    It looks like left overs from an industrial park or a garden shed. Millions spent and the result is uglier than what was there before. The city seems to have a surprising variety of ways to mess up its infrastructure projects.

  58. #1558
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    ^^

    what you see is what we get.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    For real? Like do we know this for sure? Because if so I'm pretty seething, how absolutely embarrassing.

  60. #1560
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    ^

    yes, for real. for sure.

    we've had guests from singapore here for the last five days. our new library's exterior was one of those things that will have them leave shaking their heads. another on their long disappointment list is the state of our streets and road closures in general but downtown in particular.

    on the other hand, on another list they were impressed by our river valley (they don't know we went out of our way to take the walterdale and avoid the low level) and enjoyed the exhibits at the ram, breakfast at madison's, and walking around the neighborhood in august rather than december.
    Last edited by kcantor; 21-08-2019 at 05:12 PM.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    How is this remotely acceptable then? Parts of the building then are already deforming and bubbling. Heads better roll.

  62. #1562

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    In most countries or cities around the world, many will get fired over a similar project failure....but this is Edmonton where mediocre, over budget and schedule, (and nothing close to original render) will be celebrated as a huge success.

  63. #1563
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    Any deforming/bubbling (also called oil-canning) would be covered under warranty and I'd be shocked if it isn't fixed prior to the actual unveiling/opening or shortly after due to winter.

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    I really hope that some viable candidates run against Iveson and McKeen next election.
    Last edited by Aaron_Lloyd; 21-08-2019 at 03:54 PM.

  65. #1565

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron_Lloyd View Post
    How is this remotely acceptable then? Parts of the building then are already deforming and bubbling. Heads better roll.

    It's not a bug, it's a feature. It adds texture.


  66. #1566

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    of course no one will be fired/ be disciplined. it's the city of edm, after all. i love this town, but it's getting more difficult each passing day to root for it. not when there's such incompetence at the top of civic leadership. i truly get the feeling that city hall and those who work for the city in edm tower are completely disconnected from reality.

  67. #1567

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    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    of course no one will be fired/ be disciplined. it's the city of edm, after all. i love this town, but it's getting more difficult each passing day to root for it. not when there's such incompetence at the top of civic leadership. i truly get the feeling that city hall and those who work for the city in edm tower are completely disconnected from reality.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if it wins some award.

  68. #1568
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    It’s like they tried to do something interesting with the design on the front. But then they stopped giving a crap and slapped together three boring walls with tiny 90’s style windows for the rest.

  69. #1569
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    When this structure gets reclad in the near future what are we looking at for cost - 10-20 million?

  70. #1570

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    Quote Originally Posted by lpasternak1 View Post
    It’s like they tried to do something interesting with the design on the front. But then they stopped giving a crap and slapped together three boring walls with tiny 90’s style windows for the rest.
    Yes, from the side it could easily be mistaken by visitors for our remand centre.

  71. #1571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    When this structure gets reclad in the near future what are we looking at for cost - 10-20 million?
    it's not going to get reclad in the near future or even in the far-away future.

    and even if it did get reclad, that won't change the building structure behind it or the awkward angles in that structure or the circulation within it or the openings in it...

    if the cladding was smooth instead of utilizing upstand seams or if it was bright blue or neon pink or lime green, it wouldn't be any more pleasing to the eye than the zinc that's there now (which at least should acquire a patina similar to the zinc on the art gallery of alberta).
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  72. #1572

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lpasternak1 View Post
    It’s like they tried to do something interesting with the design on the front. But then they stopped giving a crap and slapped together three boring walls with tiny 90’s style windows for the rest.
    Yes, from the side it could easily be mistaken by visitors for our remand centre.
    The Remand is nicer...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  73. #1573

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    of course no one will be fired/ be disciplined. it's the city of edm, after all. i love this town, but it's getting more difficult each passing day to root for it. not when there's such incompetence at the top of civic leadership. i truly get the feeling that city hall and those who work for the city in edm tower are completely disconnected from reality.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if it wins some award.
    I'm sure it will. They have the Razzies for awful films, as well as Rotten Tomatoes. The award this creature gets will fall into the same type of dubious distinction.

  74. #1574
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    When this structure gets reclad in the near future what are we looking at for cost - 10-20 million?
    it's not going to get reclad in the near future or even in the far-away future.

    and even if it did get reclad, that won't change the building structure behind it or the awkward angles in that structure or the circulation within it or the openings in it...

    if the cladding was smooth instead of utilizing upstand seams or if it was bright blue or neon pink or lime green, it wouldn't be any more pleasing to the eye than the zinc that's there now (which at least should acquire a patina similar to the zinc on the art gallery of alberta).
    Further to this and contradicting everybody's comments about 'cheaping out', I've heard that the zinc used was around $70/sqft. So I feel like there won't be much appetite to replace it.

  75. #1575

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    Looks cheap but is actually ridiculously expensive? Sounds on point for Edmonton.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    We all know the basic structure is not going to change so we are left with the exterior finish and what can be done.

    The ribbed effect has to go - Glass, metal with a better finish will have to be looked as an option.

    There is no way this structure can or should remain as it is.

  77. #1577

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    Quote Originally Posted by lpasternak1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    ^typical richy rich st albert response stay in your little valley there bro
    I don't live in St. Albert.
    cute you changed your location

  78. #1578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    We all know the basic structure is not going to change so we are left with the exterior finish and what can be done.

    The ribbed effect has to go - Glass, metal with a better finish will have to be looked as an option.

    There is no way this structure can or should remain as it is.
    The material they were installing under the zinc cladding looked sharper. It threw me off. I was thinking (and praying) that it was the real deal and the stuff they have on now was some temporary protective layer.

    Maybe we can organize a group to tear off the zinc one night and give the underlay a chance to shine?

  79. #1579

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    When this structure gets reclad in the near future what are we looking at for cost - 10-20 million?
    it's not going to get reclad in the near future or even in the far-away future.

    and even if it did get reclad, that won't change the building structure behind it or the awkward angles in that structure or the circulation within it or the openings in it...

    if the cladding was smooth instead of utilizing upstand seams or if it was bright blue or neon pink or lime green, it wouldn't be any more pleasing to the eye than the zinc that's there now (which at least should acquire a patina similar to the zinc on the art gallery of alberta).
    Our prayers are for: Pretty in Patina

    Of course, there’s always lime green window framing. It’s a proven solution on stacked boxes.




    Google: mod exterior lime green and then check out the images
    Last edited by KC; 22-08-2019 at 05:16 PM.

  80. #1580

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    of course no one will be fired/ be disciplined. it's the city of edm, after all. i love this town, but it's getting more difficult each passing day to root for it. not when there's such incompetence at the top of civic leadership. i truly get the feeling that city hall and those who work for the city in edm tower are completely disconnected from reality.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if it wins some award.
    I'm sure it will. They have the Razzies for awful films, as well as Rotten Tomatoes. The award this creature gets will fall into the same type of dubious distinction.
    You’re missing my point. Pick any year and google the architectural award winners. Ours is a shoo-in for some amazing sounding award.
    Check out all these beauties:

    97 Winners for the International Architecture Awards | ArchDaily
    https://www.archdaily.com/38339/97-w...tecture-awards

  81. #1581

    Default

    ^ saw the link.

    Egad!
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 22-08-2019 at 07:31 PM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  82. #1582

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    Still like my renovation idea better







    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 22-08-2019 at 07:42 PM.
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    So Time magazine has named the Calgary library as one of the 100 best places in the world - whatever that means.

    Now back to the Edmonton library.

  84. #1584
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    I think it would look great to light up the library at night, perhaps with the branding colours.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  85. #1585

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    of course no one will be fired/ be disciplined. it's the city of edm, after all. i love this town, but it's getting more difficult each passing day to root for it. not when there's such incompetence at the top of civic leadership. i truly get the feeling that city hall and those who work for the city in edm tower are completely disconnected from reality.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if it wins some award.
    I'm sure it will. They have the Razzies for awful films, as well as Rotten Tomatoes. The award this creature gets will fall into the same type of dubious distinction.
    You’re missing my point. Pick any year and google the architectural award winners. Ours is a shoo-in for some amazing sounding award.
    Check out all these beauties:

    97 Winners for the International Architecture Awards | ArchDaily
    https://www.archdaily.com/38339/97-w...tecture-awards
    I see what you mean. Oh well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, they say. But in my opinion, garbage is still garbage.

  86. #1586

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    A little late to the dead-horse beating party, but I thought a direct comparison of final rendering vs reality would be appropriate, along with EPL's statement from last month:



    The final design was approved in September of 2016 by the Edmonton Design Committee and this is the rendering we’ve been using ever since. If you view the building in the day or night, it looks true to this image. While some may still dislike it when it is complete, the building will look different when the space is open and animated, and the site is no longer a construction zone.

    ...We are surprised that some people are surprised by the building. The final approved design has been public since 2016.
    In the midst of the past months' drama, the Live Cam page on the EPL website was taken down at some point. If EPL is as confident in the final outcome as they imply, then why are they making it more difficult for the world at large to see the building as it nears completion?

    Throughout this revitalization, scope has remained the same as originally outlined in the 2014 capital profile—balancing exterior attractiveness with interior service improvements, addressing safety and building code issues, increasing energy efficiency, while at the same time ensuring fiscal restraint.
    No doubt, building code & interior renovations etc. were essential. But, when it came to exterior attractiveness, I wonder how many people would have been satisfied with a simple re-clad that didn't change the geometry of the building. Sure, we probably would've ended up with a boring glass box, but would that have been so bad, knowing what we know now?

  87. #1587
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    Talk about transferring the blame for final approval ... "final design was approved in September of 2016 by the Edmonton Design Committee ". So blame the EDC if you don't like the design is what the Library Board appears to be saying. Wow!!

  88. #1588

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    Designed by a committee, says it all...

    I bet they were given 3 choices.

    A. Battleship grey
    B. Slate grey
    C. Zinc grey

    Well what about the overall design? Nope, non-negotiable...
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 25-08-2019 at 02:35 PM.
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    God this is embarasing. If this is the finale outcome I got to admit its as ugly af.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  90. #1590

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Designed by a committee, says it all...

    I bet they were given 3 choices.

    A. Battleship grey
    B. Slate grey
    C. Zinc grey

    Well what about the overall design? Nope, non-negotiable...
    I just bought a used suv. Equally ugly as this angular design but the suv which won some design awards is still ugly and blobular in my mind. (I’d rather have something looking like all those SUVs that are cycling back to the fin look and are incorporating fins into their side body panels.)

    Oh and the suv is called “lava grey” as if different names for the shades of grey somehow make them look different. Grey vehicles are visually dominating our streets.
    Last edited by KC; 25-08-2019 at 03:00 PM.

  91. #1591

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    You know, I really wonder if Donny Iveson or Pilar Martinez from EPL are willing to acknowledge the abject stupidity of what this library has turned into.

    On one hand, we have a buffoon of a Mayor, who prefers to criticize Edmontonians who lament the new battle tank. Then, their is Pilar Martinez who is probably actively looking for a job somewhere else to escape this debacle.

    And, then, Time magazine has this to say about Calgary's library...https://time.com/collection/worlds-g...rce=reddit.com.

    No jealousy here. I simply admire the tenacity that Calgary has in seeking out international calibre architecture firms to help cultivate a truly international flavour to their designs and buildings. Don Iveson is more concerned with making sure that his brother in law Chirs Chan, the Executive Director of the Edmonton Bicycle Commuters Society, is happy with expansion of bicycle lanes in the City. Whether it is ramming an absolutely idiotic LRT system down our throats without any thought to tunnelling where logical or elevating as an option, or making sure that the local supplier of calcium chloride is happy with the new stream of income from City Hall, little Donny Iveson just doesn't have the intelligence to see the "big picture." Further to this, we hold an international competition for Blatchford to do what? Oh yes, completely shelf the winning bid.

    The lack of any requirement for qualifications for running as a councillor or mayor will doom this City to mediocrity. Calgary has the advantage of having the desire to not only do things well, but to one up Edmonton (lived there before and Calgary radio is very enlightening). If this City Council and sad excuse of a mayor only had the ability to realize that Rome was not built in a day, then we could, for instance, build the LRT properly, stage by stage, or, GASP, maybe even wait to replace the library that doesn't scream "Edmonton Remand Centre v2.0."

    Seriously hoping that someone will challenge this buffoon so that we actually have an iota of intelligence in City Hall. We had some level of uptick with Mandel but Donny just doesn't get it.

    Sorry for the rant, but if Iveson didn't resort to criticizing Edmontonians, it would be easier to overlook.

  92. #1592

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    Wow. And so the mayor’s votes count for how many votes than the rest of Council?

    Also, it’s just a building. No treasured architecture was destroyed in the making of it so is just the issue of cosmetics. It’s a functional asset and hopefully it performs very well as such. So while some amazing, universally liked construction would have been wonderful to look at, it is what it is.

    It had given me joy in criticizing it but I see no reason to sink to some hypercritical low over a building. If this stuff happens while Council deals with important issues that affect the lives of the citizens then I’m quite on with them delegating the cosmetic and prettiness issues to committees. Moreover then I’m all for this crazy, wild, unconventional architecture popping up.

    Moreover it’s nothing new. Recall the original proposals for the Space Science Centre and then what we got was a dressed up agricultural metal sided silo with flying buttresses or something’s sticking off it. What could have been though!!!

    Don’t forget that the corrugated space science centre has been quite ok in the public's view for all these years. And we tear everything down in just 4 of 5 decades anyway. (Eg The old city hall.) So it’s all just a fleeting concern. Is anyone talking anymore about the ugliness of the RAM, clad in cheap substitute facing stones?
    Last edited by KC; 25-08-2019 at 09:42 PM.

  93. #1593

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    The Space Science Centre was quite nice when it first opened. Once they started slapping strangely angled boxes onto the side of it is when it went down the tubes.

  94. #1594

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    Can we name it Library McSiloFace?

  95. #1595

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    I'm still jet lagged, but the ugliness that I stated when all renders first came out has not changed. Fill me in, who is blaming who when the designer baby was chosen to be ugly prior to mom and dad's attempt at conception?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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