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Thread: Should we allow things like this along the river?

  1. #1
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    Default Should we allow things like this along the river?

    So Vancouver is about to open a cactus club on a beach in english bay, but no Edmonton, don't touch the river valley.


    (http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8494/cactusclub.jpg)
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  2. #2

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    Yes. Develop the river valley near the central part of the city. It's so big and such a waste of space if it's left as it is right now. Build cafes/attractions like that and increase the desire for people to visit it. I like running in the rivervalley and it's naturally beauty and so on. But there needs to be more there.

    Undoubtedly it would increase the demand for people to in the adjacent central neighbourhoods, while decreasing urban sprawl. Do it.

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    R o s s d a l e. Please

    The N. Sask valley should be our starring attraction and we NEED things like this to draw more people down there.
    Last edited by brett-; 06-02-2012 at 06:54 PM.
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    A Cactus Club at the Rossdale Plant along the river bank would be wicked!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I think it should only be permitted from ~95th to ~105th
    $2.00 $2.25 $2.50 $2.75 $2.85 $3.00 $3.20 $3.25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    A Cactus Club at the Rossdale Plant along the river bank would be wicked!
    oh man. just the thought makes me drool.
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  7. #7

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    Why not. We seem ok with bridges, neighbourhoods, power plants, roadways, paths, golf courses... I think done right, people and nature can co-exist nicely in urban landscapes.

    Generally to maintain what we can of a pristine watercourse and embankment I'd develop back from the river and close to the bottom of the valley's banks when it comes to buildings and the associated roadways.

    However, I could see the odd building, like the one pictured above which incorporates open and/or enclosed viewing decks would be allowed to situate on the river banks.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by brett- View Post
    R o s s d a l e. Please

    The N. Sask valley should be our starring attraction and we NEED things like this to draw more people down there.
    Yep - I agree 100%.

    Even if you just add a few businesses from say 95th St to 110th St, there is still a majority of the River Valley that is left to nature.

  9. #9

    Default yes, but...

    I'm all for more smart development along the river valley but let's not just stick in another crap chain restaurant.

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    ^sounds good. Let's make sure there is Transcend, Good Earth, or other chain down there either.

    What has happened to free enterprise in this city, if people don't want chains don't shop there and they will disappear.

    This would be good for the River Valley and for Edmonton, unfortunately it will take decades of study and consultation before we see anything. I hope I am proven wrong.

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    Because it would be a stand alone operation, you would need quite a strong destination brand or namesake. I'd love to see one of those names there, but in all honesty, Cactus Club would have a far more likely chance at success there.
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  12. #12

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    The Victoria Golf Course Club House needs to be replaced. Here is an EXCELLENT oppertunity to do something in partnership with the city and revitalize an existing city asset and add development to the river valley with very little additional impact.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Regardless of what brand or chain the restaurant is, there is a fairly real concern about parking/access to it if it goes somewhere between Groat and 105 Street. Yes there's already a couple fairly large lots there to serve the golf course, RGC, parks and other facilities but a decent sized restaurant would require parking for a significant number of vehicles. I'm not saying it's a reason not to go ahead with it, but it's something that would have to be considered.

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    ^there is NO parking with the one for English bay....

    Not that we can do that here quite yet, but there are many areas around rossdale to facilitate parking needs into a new development.

    I like the VGCC idea, cannot believe how underutilized it is to be honest, but would prefer something on the river or overlooking the river.
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    If this facility is physically accessible then it would be a great feature of the downtown. Even if I don't patronize the actual business (and I probably would) it would give me access to the river valley.

    As to preserving the wilderness, looking at all the roads and other structures, I think that ship has left the dock as far as the downtown stretch of the valley.

    So for me an enthusiastic "yes" as long as it is within the sorts of perimeters suggested (i.e., the stretch that is already built up).

    Eve

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    How about somewhere right around the Edmonton Queen dock? There's some space there, it's close to the Muttart, great view of downtown, etc. and it might not be as controversial because that area is already somewhat developed and would be very near the future SE LRT route.

    Rossdale would be right at the top of the list too, of course.

  17. #17
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    Perhaps in Rossdale, Cloverdale, Riverdale, and on the north bank adjacent to Oliver. Nowhere else.

    Things like this entail a mixed land use the other residential neighborhoods along the river are just not yet ripe for.

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    ^
    ^^^
    I think that's the sentiment most of us share...only develop in areas of the river valley already developed (i.e. Rossdale), leave the rest as pristine wilderness.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Pristine... mmhmm
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    ^Pristine enough.

  21. #21

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    Start with Rossdale. Its downtown, its underused, it makes sense.

    If its done right, Edmontonians will warm up to the idea of River Valley Development
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  22. #22

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    Yes! As someone who likes to take a stroll after dinner, I would love the change of scenery from Jasper/Whyte Ave.

  23. #23
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    Rossdale power plant area would be a great location for something like that. Also if the funicular ends around that area it would make it quite easy to get there from the downtown core. I still would love to see a much stronger connection to the boardwalk below Louis Mckinney Park.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  24. #24

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    Yes. Yes we should.

    And we shouldn't just allow it. We should encourage it.

  25. #25

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    What's the plan for the Rossdale building?

  26. #26

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    We need some of this kind of development in the area between the High Level Bridge and the Low Level Bridge. It would help connect downtown and Old Strathcona and given the amount of vehicles and traffic already passing through there, it's hardly a quiet and pristine wilderness.

    Pedestrian/cyclist/rollerbader friendly pathways through the area need to be maintained so that people who do want to tour through the valley can still get from one end to the other seamlessly. I would hate to see so much development that "River Valley East" and "River Valley West" became 2 different and separate areas.

  27. #27

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    We should allow stuff like that in our river valley.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

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    ^simple effective design with glass, wood (glulam) and brick or stone would work very well.
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  29. #29

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    Rossdale would be good, such an underused/underdeveloped area. It seems like a waste.

    As for the rest of the River Valley I just want to see more trails.

  30. #30
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    ^ Agreed. Let's fill in the gaps to produce continuous top of bank and riverside trails, and let's not forget what happened to developments too close to rivers in Southern Alberta last June.

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    Cactus Club, meh.

    But definitely, our city's interaction with the valley and river is seriously lacking.

    We make Nahanni Ntl Park look commercialized. Time to introduce Edmontonians to the soul of Edmonton. (Read NSR valley not DT)
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Yes. Yes we should.

    And we shouldn't just allow it. We should encourage it.
    Abso-effing-lutely.

    All the best cities interact with their rivers. Edmonton's just divides the city, and in places, even makes the place seem more desolate than it actually is.
    "The only really positive thing one could say about Vancouver is, it’s not the rest of Canada." Oink (britishexpats.com)

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny199r View Post
    Rossdale would be good, such an underused/underdeveloped area. It seems like a waste.
    Until this happens





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    /\And yet massive residential redevelopment was allowed on the exact areas pictured above.

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    Pictures prior to flood control via upstream dam, no longer relevant.
    Post not even worth recognizing in terms of this discussion.

  36. #36
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    ^There are dams on the Bow river too, but the reservoirs don't have infinite capacity. Last June Calgary found out what happens when that capacity is exceeded. The same can and will happen on the North Saskatchewan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^There are dams on the Bow river too, but the reservoirs don't have infinite capacity. Last June Calgary found out what happens when that capacity is exceeded. The same can and will happen on the North Saskatchewan.
    http://www.envinfo.gov.ab.ca/FloodHazard/

    The areas along the river that are already developed are in the flood plain...so again what relevance did those photos have? Fear mongering?

    What am I missing that you are seeing?

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Pictures prior to flood control via upstream dam, no longer relevant.
    Post not even worth recognizing in terms of this discussion.
    Wrong. The NSR has flooded 5 times since the Bighorn dam was built includingg this year. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Saskatchewan_River

    Floods can and have happened since the dams have been built including recent flooding of the condos along 98th Ave. The dams do reduce the severity but are too far up the NSR basin to prevent local flooding due to severe rain fall and accellerated snow melt. Moreover, flooding can easily happen due to ice jams that can form in a few hours during spring breakup.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 27-12-2013 at 05:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Pictures prior to flood control via upstream dam, no longer relevant.
    Post not even worth recognizing in terms of this discussion.
    Wrong. The NSR has flooded 5 times since the Bighorn dam was built includingg this year. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Saskatchewan_River

    Floods can and have happened since the dams have been built including recent flooding of the condos along 98th Ave. The dams do reduce the severity but are too far up the NSR basin to prevent local flooding due to severe rain fall and accellerated snow melt. Moreover, flooding can easily happen due to ice jams that can form in a few hours during spring breakup.
    We are talking about Rossdale are we not?
    See the link I posted above, according to the GOA, the areas of Rossdale that are already developed are in the flood plain, the areas yet to be developed are not.

    Again, how are the photos you posted relevant in the context of the area that was being discussed, IE the build out of Rossdale?

  40. #40

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    Have you read the limitations? It is based upon a 100 year flood event. It is not a guarantee that higher flooding levels are possible. I am not saying that the area will flood but it is a concern depending in which area site in Rossdale you are speaking.

    If the location is properly evaluated and protected, I am for more development in the area. We just have had some poor sites selected in the recent past don't you agree?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Have you read the limitations? It is based upon a 100 year flood event. It is not a guarantee that higher flooding levels are possible. I am not saying that the area will flood but it is a concern depending in which area site in Rossdale you are speaking.

    If the location is properly evaluated and protected, I am for more development in the area. We just have had some poor sites selected in the recent past don't you agree?
    I'm not sure I agree, if you are speaking of Alberta as a whole, there are some. Predominantly I find that the major areas that were affected had development for a long time (I mean you'll have define recent...to me 20-30 years of building is not recent), as a whole the oldest areas of both major cities are most susceptible to flood damage. So are recent choices to blame, not really, the seem to be a small portion of the problem.

    It terms of planning beyond the 100 year flood plane, you can plan for any contingency and avoid all risk, but you also lose the related rewards.

    So, the hyperbole of those pictures, and the fact they are out of context as the dam is now built and a similar event has never occurred, is useless in this conversation and only serves to distort the risks upwards...falsely, so let's leave that out of the discussion all together.

  42. #42

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    Cloverdale Jul 12, 2013

    The Landing condo was built only 10 years ago on a known floodplain.



    But I do still agree that there should be something built in the raised areas of Rossdale to attract people.
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