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Thread: Transit Service to EIA | Planning/Discussion

  1. #1301

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    I don't look forward to parking my car at the airport parking lot when I go on vacation. The number of days parked adds up to the cost of the vacation, using the LRT would save me money.
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  2. #1302

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Calgary doesn't have LRT to the airport yet and they're still ahead of us. Los Angeles doesn't have rapid transit to LAX. Las Vegas doesn't either.
    I guess that would make Edmonton ahead of those cities in that area!
    Last edited by ThomasH; 16-06-2018 at 06:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    I'm not going to fly more just because I could take the LRT to the airport and I can't imagine tourists saying "Forget Disneyland, let's go to Edmonton. Their LRT runs to the airport"

    People need a reason to travel to or from here. Calgary doesn't have LRT to the airport yet and they're still ahead of us. Los Angeles doesn't have rapid transit to LAX. Las Vegas doesn't either.
    I can imagine people taking a more serious look at Edmonton for the Fringe, potential uptick for concerts and sports, etc resulting. One of the first things people seem to complain about is the distance to/from the airport. Eliminating that can only help matters.

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    I could see even more development around the airport if the LRT is extended there.
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    ...and yet Portland does...
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  6. #1306

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    And how often do you hear someone say "I'm going to Portland because they have rail to their airport?"

    Not once have I decided to visit a city and then changed my mind because of public transit or a lack thereof to the airport.

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    One thing they do a lot of in Europe is make a lot of weekend trips because of the low airfares. I could see a Canadians making similar trips to see a hockey game or the fringe etc. Convenient connections will be a factor in making decisions although at this point in time I find it hard to justify an LRT connection to the airport given so many pressing priorities.

  8. #1308

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    Checking on Kayak, the lowest fare I got for a flight from TEG to TTC was $248.77 return. Hardly the sort of price that's going to make the average person decide to take a spur of the moment trip.

    Having a rail transit connection to an airport is nice but if I'm travelling, it's hardly going to be a deal maker or breaker.

    Sure, make plans for eventual LRT connection to the airport but deciding to jump over parts of the city that are waiting for LRT in order to service a few thousand people for the World Cup is not optimal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    And how often do you hear someone say "I'm going to Portland because they have rail to their airport?"

    Not once have I decided to visit a city and then changed my mind because of public transit or a lack thereof to the airport.
    Point being that you do not have to be a large/international airport to have great transit.
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    Is this all, because of something Fifa demands? They demand a lot! Let's just hope we get the games!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    One thing they do a lot of in Europe is make a lot of weekend trips because of the low airfares. I could see a Canadians making similar trips to see a hockey game or the fringe etc. Convenient connections will be a factor in making decisions although at this point in time I find it hard to justify an LRT connection to the airport given so many pressing priorities.
    Thank goodness some of the councillor's think the same way!

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Is this all, because of something Fifa demands? They demand a lot! Let's just hope we get the games!!
    Not at all, but events such as this create wonderful opportunities for 'legacy projects' such as the Canada Line or UPX.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Is this all, because of something Fifa demands? They demand a lot! Let's just hope we get the games!!
    Not at all, but events such as this create wonderful opportunities for 'legacy projects' such as the Canada Line or UPX.
    Really Ian, because it wasn't mentioned before FIFA decided our transport wasn't good..that makes me skeptical... That's all.

  14. #1314

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Is this all, because of something Fifa demands? They demand a lot! Let's just hope we get the games!!
    Not at all, but events such as this create wonderful opportunities for 'legacy projects' such as the Canada Line or UPX.
    When we get to the passenger loads of YVR, then we'll talk. Until then, let's concentrate on getting the West and North West lines in place, shall we?

    With the Henday, I can get from the north end of town to the airport in a little over half an hour. Even with the LRT and Route 747, it's not that long.

    But sure, let's put our limited LRT funds into a line that will serve a fraction of the people just so we can have bragging rights that our train goes to the airport.

    Priorities people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    With the Henday, I can get from the north end of town to the airport in a little over half an hour. Even with the LRT and Route 747, it's not that long.

    But sure, let's put our limited LRT funds into a line that will serve a fraction of the people just so we can have bragging rights that our train goes to the airport.
    Priorities people.
    It's pretty hard to justify an extension of that length and cost when the existing 747 service carries 150-200 people combined in both directions during peak periods. Vancouver's Canada line was a stub off a major new line. Toronto's UPX was for a time a white elephant with trains that were often more than half empty until they decided change it from a premium service targeting business travelers and lowered the fares so that it became a viable commuter line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Checking on Kayak, the lowest fare I got for a flight from TEG to TTC was $248.77 return. Hardly the sort of price that's going to make the average person decide to take a spur of the moment trip.

    Having a rail transit connection to an airport is nice but if I'm travelling, it's hardly going to be a deal maker or breaker.

    Sure, make plans for eventual LRT connection to the airport but deciding to jump over parts of the city that are waiting for LRT in order to service a few thousand people for the World Cup is not optimal.
    That is why we need more competition.
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  17. #1317

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    Which is an airline/market problem, not an access to the airport problem.

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    If there is an iota of empirical evidence to support the idea that light rail to an airport has an effect on flight demand and supply, I'd like to see it.
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    I'd love to see a train out to the airport but that's just because I'm fond of trains. In practical terms, however, the 747 probably gets you there at about the same speed because it's mostly freeway all the way there. Lots of travellers prefer cabs because they're either not going to a location near an LRT station and who wants to schlepp their luggage onto buses (if they even run right to your door). Other travellers are unfamiliar with the city's layout and so feel safer using a cab that they know will drive right up to the hotel door.

    If the 747 gets really packed, the solution is just to put an extra bus on the route.

  20. #1320
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Which is an airline/market problem, not an access to the airport problem.
    Which will be enhanced by better access.
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  21. #1321

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Is this all, because of something Fifa demands? They demand a lot! Let's just hope we get the games!!
    Not at all, but events such as this create wonderful opportunities for 'legacy projects' such as the Canada Line or UPX.
    The Canada Line was because of the Olympics, a major event held primarily in one city or nearby.

    Canada gets 10 games in the world cup, spread among a maximum of three cities, Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal. FIFA will decide how many games each city gets, if any. We could get one or none or four. Even if we shut out the two largest cities in the country, which isn't going to happen, We're looking at a price tag that is likely to exceed 2 Billion dollars. According to this article, extending the LRT to 41 ave S would cost over $1 billion. Then you need to get to the airport and all the infrastructure needed there to fit it into an already crowded location. And don't forget that we'd need a bunch more trains in order to service it. And more maintenance space for them, kicking up the price even more.

    But sure, let's make the push for LRT to the airport and convince the rest of the province and the feds that it's a legacy project.


    Segment one would include two bridges – over Whitemud Creek and Anthony Henday Drive – before arriving at the future park’n’ride lot at Ellerslie. It would also need a maintenance facility, driving the cost to $600 million.


    Segment two has a price tag of $475 million.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3464085/c...-edmonton-50m/

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    After Ellerslie Rd, having the LRT to the EIA seems to be the next logical step. We're already in the design phase of the Ellerslie LRT project as it is. I'd like to know what the general appetite is for a LRT after Ellerslie Rd to the EIA, and if there has been a study of some kind having the LRT out to the EIA.
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    ^exactly, keep it going.
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  24. #1324

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    Yeah, forget about Castle Downs or St. Albert or Sherwood Park. Let's drop 2 billion + on a line that would get a fraction of the daily ridership that a line to the airport would. And if we can use 3 or 4 soccer games as an excuse for it, so much the better.

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    Mutually exclusive in my opinion. Not one versus the other, but two different forms of investment.
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  26. #1326

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    Two forms of investment:

    Poor investments and good investments.
    There can only be one.

  27. #1327

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    If we had an unlimited bank account, sure. But back here in the real world, we must prioritize. And providing LRT where people will use it daily takes priority over a system where a few hundred people are currently using transit to get to the airport.

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    Intra-city LRT is obviously the priority, but you must also have major destinations connected to that system and while the 747 is a great option that I regularly use, LRT to support travels, airport workers, commuters from Leduc/Nisku/Region is certainly going to be more and more important as we move forward.
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    I think that it would be so very nice to see the higher levels of government step up and use this as an excuse to create a legacy and maybe use it to win votes. Whatever the reason that they would want to use, I'm ok with it as long as it benefits Edmonton. I do think its time to start seeing 2 LRT projects being worked on at once as we need to get better links for all of the city.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Two being worked on right now, Valley and Metro (still). I would like to see LRT to Leduc County, EIA and Leduc, Strathcona County-Sherwood Park, Acheson, Spruce Grove and Stony Plain, Castle Downs, St. Albert, NE Edmonton, Valley Line west, Ft. Sask and the Industrial Heartland, but won’t live long enough. Over time, a long time, they will all exist.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 18-06-2018 at 10:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Two being worked on right now, Valley and Metro (still)

    That poor metro...I don't know if it will ever be right.

  32. #1332
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    Maybe they should just start planning a new low floor line off of 104 av up through Blatchford and across the tracks and up. Keep existing Metro for Rogers, the hospital, Kingsway mall and Nait only
    Last edited by Drumbones; 18-06-2018 at 10:23 AM.

  33. #1333

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Intra-city LRT is obviously the priority, but you must also have major destinations connected to that system and while the 747 is a great option that I regularly use, LRT to support travels, airport workers, commuters from Leduc/Nisku/Region is certainly going to be more and more important as we move forward.
    Of course we must connect the major destinations but we also need to connect to where people live so they can get to those destinations. It's a matter of fact that funding the major lines (Valley West, NW to Castle Downs/St. Albert) would suffer if we prioritized LRT to the airport.

    There's only so much funding and delaying LRT to thousands of people so you can take the LRT from downtown to the airport is just being selfish.

    Ask any level of government if they're willing to fund two or even three simultaneous lines of LRT construction and let me know what they say. And then get the other two governments on board and then we'll talk.

    Tens of thousands of people would use LRT to the west and north-west every day. You can't say that about a line to the airport, no matter how convenient it is.

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    I'm not opposed to low floor but Metro is an extension of Capital line. As most of us know the woes of Metro are well documented here at c2e. Edmonton is not immune to external world/North American economic activity, ie Nafta and Ottawa hasn't got bucket- fulls of cash to dole out. Heck, the Feds can barely keep Can #1 up and running and that's about as old as the Saddledome. While I agree the Saint Albert Line through Blatchford should be the City of Edmonton's next LRT priority, having the LRT out to the EIA should be priority #2. Centre LRT shouldn't even be on the table imo.
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  35. #1335
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    Fixed that for you.

    'Funding LRT to thousands of people who take the LRT from Edmonton to the airport would be wonderful.'
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  36. #1336

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    Fixed further

    'Funding LRT for perhaps thousands of people who might take the LRT from Edmonton to the airport could be wonderful.'
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  37. #1337

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Fixed that for you.

    'Funding LRT to thousands of people who take the LRT from Edmonton to the airport would be wonderful.'
    You forgot - "at the expense of people who would use it to get to work and school every day"

    Sure it would be wonderful. So would free ice cream every day.

    In your world, Edmonton would get funding for three simultaneous LRT lines. Well, Calgary would want in on that action too. Can the province fund 6 lines at the same time?

    Then Toronto, Vancouver, and Ottawa would want to expand their lines too. Toss in Hamilton with their new line as well as. And Victoria has been talking about LRT for a while now. They'd certainly want some of that action. So the Feds would be on the hook for well over a dozen projects all going on at the same time.

    Or would Edmonton be the only city to qualify for funding?

  38. #1338

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    ^^No, it would be stupid.

    It would be resoundingly stupid to spend our limited dollars building an LRT to the airport where demand is extremely limited, and then spend millions every year maintaining the service, all for people who are too snobby to take the faster 747 bus that has loads of capacity. If we really feel the need to spend more money on transit service to the airport then we could bring fares back down, build an upgraded station that's easier to find, and run it twice as often with more highway-capable buses for a fraction of the cost of operating LRT, let along the billions in capital costs.
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    Again, a city-wide LRT is our priority, but connecting YEG in the near/mid-future is important.
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  40. #1340

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    Important based on what objective criteria?

    Important to someone's fragile ego doesn't count.
    There can only be one.

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    Like I said earlier, the Feds haven't got bucketful's of cash to dole out either. The province even less. Admittedly on my part even having future LRT beyond WLRT is wishful thinking.
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  42. #1342

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Again, a city-wide LRT is our priority, but connecting YEG in the near/mid-future is important.
    You were just advocating for building it for the World Cup.

    Yes, it's most likely going to happen once the annexation to the airport border goes through AND there's significant development there AND the lines we currently have started (Valley east & West and NW to St Albert) are done.

    But not because the downtowners want to take LRT to the airport so they don't have to transfer.

    When Vancouver had the Olympics and got the SkyTrain to YVR, they had a population of about 2 1/4 million. YVR is also MUCH busier than YEG. Give it time. Make plans. it will come.

  43. #1343

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    They also have development right up to the airport border. When there's continuous city right down to highway 19 then we'll be in the same position.
    There can only be one.

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    I'm not opposed to a rail link to EIA as long as another body pays for it given the higher transit priorities that Edmonton has. Toronto's UPX was paid for and operated by the province. If the LRT was extended down to 41st Ave, what would the cost be of building a rail link from there to EIA (a distance of approximately 11km)? Ideally I would like to see EIA pay for it (after all many airports operate inter terminal monorails, not an apples to apples comparison though) as they could easily implement a ticket tax to help pay for it. A $15 to $20 per ticket airport fee could net tens of millions in fees per year and potentially recoup the cost within 10-15 years.
    Last edited by norwoodguy; 18-06-2018 at 02:42 PM.
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  45. #1345

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    17 km as the crow flies from Century Park to YEG. There's also the time and money to design as well as land acquisition. And getting the land would be easier after the annexation since it wouldn't involve the county.

  46. #1346

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    One thing that has to be factored into any line, even the high floor line, is a maintenance facility will need to be built. I talked to one of the ETS planners at one of the system redesign sessions, and he said the high-floor LRT barn is already full, so another facility would need to be build for the additional trains to the southwest and the airport. I'm not sure if the barn and the tracks to the airport could even be built before the World Cup, even if council decided to once again prioritize the south over the north and the west.

  47. #1347

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    There's plans for a new maintenance facility at Ellerslie Road. See the link in #1321

  48. #1348

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    There's plans for a new maintenance facility at Ellerslie Road. See the link in #1321
    I figured they would have to build one for the Southwest leg, anyways. I'm just saying its not just a matter of laying track, unless you do a crash program to lay the track, an cut frequency of the trains north of the Stadium or run buses the north LRT for the duration of the tournament. Even if you prioritized track building, and back-filled the LRT barn and even stations later, would we be done before the World Cup? I doubt it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    17 km as the crow flies from Century Park to YEG. There's also the time and money to design as well as land acquisition. And getting the land would be easier after the annexation since it wouldn't involve the county.
    Annnexation this January so no problem there. If the city had to expropriate the land it would be very expensive unless they could come to terms with the developers before subdividing the land. When they do decide to subdivide the developers would dedicate the land for circulation. Hopefully they have defined a corridor already.
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    Thoughts:
    1. No reason a person can't do the land use planning at least and acquire the land for the LRT right-of-way south of Century Park.
    2. We should probably start with a multi-tier transit fares, with the Ring Roads being the fare change zones, in order to help pay for stuff.
    3. Edmonton Airports probably could make a capital contribution to the LRT extension across their property as it is in their best interest, but the airport improvement fee is already high enough at $30 per ticket.
    4. I have choice words for the City-crat:
    a. that authorized the splicing of new and legacy signaling systems and software. The solution is going to be replacing the legacy signals and software. Get on with it so the Metro line works.
    b. that authorized the level crossing at University Avenue, 51 Avenue, 111 Avenue, Kingsway, Princess Elizabeth, and elsewhere. If you are going to built it, built it right the first time or not at all.

  51. #1351

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    It wasn't a "City-crat". Thales said that they could make the two systems work together. Seeing as they're supposed to be the world leaders at this sort of thing, I don't blame the city for taking their word for it.

    If Thales had simply come forward and said "The two systems won't work together. We can design a system that will upgrade the whole system" the city would have spent the extra cash. Some people would have grumbled but it would have been the best. But Thales decided that their reputation would be enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    b. that authorized the level crossing at University Avenue, 51 Avenue, 111 Avenue, Kingsway, Princess Elizabeth, and elsewhere. If you are going to built it, built it right the first time or not at all.
    Amen!
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  53. #1353

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    A brief overview of airport transit in other cities.


    How to Find Cheap Transportation to and From Major Airports
    https://lifehacker.com/how-to-find-c...irp-1827054986

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    There are good arguments for both sides. Ideally as mentioned we can maybe tackle a couple of priorities at one time.

    Maybe you get some extra funding on something like this from different levels of government and the legacy piece helps with an event like World Cup and future events.

    On a personal story note I found the train that stopped at the Minneapolis airport useful back in 2014 on a long layover enroute to Paris. Because our bags were checked through we were easily able to leave the secured area and take the train downtown where we did a tour of Target field. We actually had enough time to train back past the airport in the other direction and do a quick lap around the mall of America. Not saying a situation like this alone would ever happen frequently enough in Edmonton or anywhere to justify a line on its own but was certainly a nice little benefit to us to get to explore the city and spend a few bucks there.

  55. #1355

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    The population of Metro Minneapolis/St. Paul is about 3.5 million. The distance from downtown Minneapolis to the airport is about 15 km.

    They have the advantage of a population 3 times ours and a shorter distance to the airport. The also have a network that covers all corners of the cities.

    Downtown Edmonton is 30 km to YEG. Even from Century Park, we're looking at a run of 15 km as the crow flies. A real world line would be longer.

    LRT will get to the airport eventually but we have people in the city itself that would use it every day to service first.

    Notice that the airport is just below the middle of the map and Mall of America is just a bit further south.


  56. #1356

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Again, a city-wide LRT is our priority, but connecting YEG in the near/mid-future is important.
    When Vancouver had the Olympics and got the SkyTrain to YVR, they had a population of about 2 1/4 million. YVR is also MUCH busier than YEG. Give it time. Make plans. it will come.
    In Vancouver, before Skytrain arrived at the airport, bus 424 provided a shuttle from Airport Station (on the 98 B-Line) to the airport terminal. The 424 ran every 7/8 minutes and buses were packed. The airport branch of the Canada Line Skytrain runs every 6 minutes daytime, 10 to 12 minutes evening and every 20 minutes after 11 pm to last train at 1:15 am. First train from Vancouver is at 4:48 am. The airport branch of Canada Line carries just under 20,000 riders per day. The entire line is carrying just under 140,000 riders a day.

    After the last train, NightBus N10 to Richmond runs to and from the airport every 30 minutes with the last departure to the airport from Vancouver at 3:10 am (after that time the N10 goes direct to Richmond). From the airport last direct N10 to downtown Vancouver is at 2:35 am, and the last connecting N10 (with a change of bus at Airport Stn) is a 3:40 am.
    Last edited by lightrail; 05-07-2018 at 05:04 PM.
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  57. #1357

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    YVR to downtown Vancouver is 14 km. YEG to downtown Edmonton is 29 km, just slightly over double the distance.

    In May 2018, YVR had 2.2 million passengers. YEG had 694,000 including FBO, over three times our passenger movements.

    Looking at those two comparisons, using YVR as a reason for LRT to YEG looks even more overblown.

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    Toronto managed with 2 TTC bus routes and 2 GO bus routes before UPX was built. Not saying this was ideal given the number of workers and passengers at Pearson. YYZ and YVR were in far greater need of rail transit than YEG is and will be for a while in my estimation.
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    Sure, but allow it to be a commuting option both in and out of the city for Leduc/region and nisku.
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  60. #1360

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    I'd rather see the rest of the city, St. Albert & Sherwood Park get LRT before worrying about Leduc.

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    That map of Minneapolis transit is for 2030. It is actually currently far, far smaller than indicated with just the green and blue lines being half as long as indicated. If anything like all other cities then it will be long after 2030 before anything remotely similar to that map is actually in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    I'd rather see the rest of the city, St. Albert & Sherwood Park get LRT before worrying about Leduc.
    Because of the airport, I would disagree.
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  63. #1363

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    Yes, Ian, we know that the primary purpose of LRT is to make it easy for downtown dwellers at the expense of everyone else. NW LRT would carry more people daily than an extension to the airport would. But let's instead prioritize your ability to walk a block and catch a train to the airport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    I'd rather see the rest of the city, St. Albert & Sherwood Park get LRT before worrying about Leduc.
    And how much of the bill will Strathcona County and St. Albert pay to finance the LRT to their surburb cities?
    Money talks.

    Benefit/Cost Ratios talk too.

  65. #1365

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    And how much will EIA pay to finance LRT to their location? Money talks.

    At least with St. Albert and Sherwood Park, you'd have enough ridership every day to make it worthwhile.

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    The feds pay a major chunk of lrt costs. The airport being federal, they may contribute more. The province would contribute more for the other two. Strathcona County has bucks, St. Albert not so much. Sturgeon County has O&G revenue though, they could chip in too.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 07-07-2018 at 11:42 AM.

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    Most of the Saint Albert line will be in Edmonton up to Campbell Road anyway. The City of Edmonton has a vested interest to take the line, to Campbell road. The Saint Albert portion, could be a P3 situation; the City of Saint Albert, the Province and The Federal Government. Edmonton doesn't even need to be involved cash wise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    The feds pay a major chunk of lrt costs. The airport being federal, they may contribute more. The province would contribute more for the other two. Strathcona County has bucks, St. Albert not so much. Sturgeon County has O&G revenue though, they could chip in too.
    Nailed it.
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  69. #1369

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    I'd hold off on the extension to Campbell Road until the agreement to continue into St. Albert is in place. Otherwise we're looking at them just using the end of the line as a park & ride.

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    Simply building a rail link to EIA for bragging rights (or urbaneness) seems rather pretentious. It makes more sense to build a mass transit network first to serve pressing immediate needs. Imagine what it would be like for someone living in St. Albert to have the viable option of taking mass transit all the way to YYZ especially in another decade or two when the metropolitan population is higher and the Henday is clogged with more traffic. As for funding I’m all for EIA chipping in. Although an additional airport fee would seem onerous it is worth remembering that non locals would help pay for the fee as well.

    Ideally any any talk of an EIA rail link should be conducted as part of a longer range strategy to creating a business hub around the airport and along the rail corridor. The federal government has been leading discussions amongst regional stakeholders around creating a multi model transportation hub at Pearson airport to supplement Union Station. This is in recognition of the fact that the area around the airport is home to over 300,000 jobs and is the largest employment center after downtown Toronto with its 500,000 jobs. Like EIA Pearson is not actually located within its namesake city (it’s in Mississauga) but is situated close to several municipalities. in addition the corridor from Waterloo/Kitchener/Cambridge to Toronto constitutes what is becoming Silicon Valley North and there is talk of building a high speed rail link to service the corridor.
    Last edited by norwoodguy; 07-07-2018 at 07:43 PM. Reason: Clarificationj
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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    Simply building a rail link to EIA for bragging rights (or urbaneness) seems rather pretentious. It makes more sense to build a mass transit network first to serve pressing immediate needs. Imagine what it would be like for someone living in St. Albert to have the viable option of taking mass transit all the way to YYZ especially in another decade or two when the metropolitan population is higher and the Henday is clogged with more traffic. As for funding I’m all for EIA chipping in. Although an additional airport fee would seem onerous it is worth remembering that non locals would help pay for the fee as well.

    Ideally any any talk of an EIA rail link should be conducted as part of a longer range strategy to creating a business hub around the airport and along the rail corridor. The federal government has been leading discussions amongst regional stakeholders around creating a multi model transportation hub at Pearson airport to supplement Union Station. This is in recognition of the fact that the area around the airport is home to over 300,000 jobs and is the largest employment center after downtown Toronto with its 500,000 jobs. Like EIA Pearson is not actually located within its namesake city (it’s in Mississauga) but is situated close to several municipalities. in addition the corridor from Waterloo/Kitchener/Cambridge to Toronto constitutes what is becoming Silicon Valley North and there is talk of building a high speed rail link to service the corridor.

    Mass transit from St. Albert all the way to YYZ! Bring your pillow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Mass transit from St. Albert all the way to YYZ! Bring your pillow.
    Even better if there is Wi-Fi on board recreate or do some work. Yeah speeding down the Henday is the fastest way to EIA today but if you don't have a ride or don't want to to the drive or pay for a cab it's nice to have a choice.
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  73. #1373

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    I think the 747 bus service is a good match for the ridership levels on this corridor. However, I would like to see the following improvements:

    1) Increased frequencies especially during mid-day. I think it should be every 15 minutes during peak hours and every 30 minutes off-peak.
    2) Better integration with ETS fare system and easier payment at the airport. Hopefully the smart card fare system can be implemented quickly. In the interim even an ETS electronic kiosk at the airport for ticket purchase would be an improvement with options to pay by credit/debit card.
    3) I think there should be a metropolitan transit system for Edmonton, Sherwood Park, St. Albert, Fort Saskatchewan, and Leduc/Nisku. Better integration could drive more passenger traffic on this and other inter-city corridors.

    LRT should only be considered when ridership levels justify the investment. Good bus service can serve this route well for several more years in my opinion. High ridership on rail based mass transit is almost always preceded by routes with high bus ridership levels.

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    Keep in mind if planning started it would have to be for after the south leg of the capital line past henday gets built. Meetings, committees, task forces later add three years. Planning add five years. Getting it out to bid another three years. Wait a while. Another year or two. Try to get funding from different levels of govt, add two years. Start construction and take three or four years to build it. So no harm in talking about it today. From talking seriously about it to the day of ridership could be twenty years minimum.

  75. #1375

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    I'd like to see the Capital line extended as the area south of the Henday develops instead of waiting until it's fully developed. Get people used to having transit options available as soon as they move in. As development moves south, so would the LRT.

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    Would be nice it won’t happen tho. I’m thinking that the newly annexed land between 41av sw and hwy 19 will be developed very fast, at least within a kilometer or two of the QE2. LRT will likely not come south of the henday to a park and ride for a dozen years or so. They’ll be a new major hospital built along there too by then.

  77. #1377

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    Yeah, it's a dream but it makes more sense than pushing the LRT through to the airport for three or four World Cup games. At least it would be servicing people along the route with my idea.

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    Unless of course it gets federal funding with money that would otherwise go to Quebec

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    If we're talking about the World Cup, the LRT just needs to get to Heritage valley. A shuttle bus can then go between the Heritage Valley station and EIA - without having to go onto QE2, it takes about 15minutes shuttle ride using secondary roads.

    Easiest in terms of avoiding working with multiple jurisdictions and the inevitable red tape.

    Regardless of soccer and politics, imo, the extension to Heritage Valley should take place before the West LRT. SW is a mess. Densest population centre of the city outside of Oliver and an extension down there with effective high frequency buses that use the LRT stations as hub will do wonders in that corner of the city. Considering how popular the park and ride was at century park and observing the full trains everyday during rush hour, I don't see why the SLRT isn't a natural choice of an extension.

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    It seems strange that they are not running it down James Mowatt as there are a slough of condos and population there but will run it to the west through the cornfields of university farmland, again.

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    There is something to be said though about extending other lines too in order to bring more passengers to the LRT to go to the airport.

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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Good to see. I use it regularly and while not perfect, a great option.
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    Strange how that coincided with the opening of the mall and Costco.
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    Increased transit use suggests Edmonton airport economy taking flight
    Ridership has doubled between airport, surrounding businesses and municipalities
    June 14, 2019

    Ridership has more than doubled on transit routes moving people to new jobs around the airport, thanks to growing demand from businesses in the area and continued collaboration to ensure the transit system meets the needs of passengers.

    “By cooperating with our partners in the City of Leduc, Leduc County and at the airport, we’ve made this bus route the perfect commuter route–right up to that last mile,” said City of Edmonton Mayor Don Iveson, speaking about Edmonton Transit Service (ETS) Route 747, a dedicated route that runs from Century Park Transit Centre to the Edmonton International Airport (EIA) main terminal. “It’s an important achievement. This is what intermunicipal collaboration looks like, and it’s paying economic and environmental dividends. More people are getting to work or their travel destination using this enhanced public transportation.”

    The City of Edmonton, the City of Leduc, Leduc County and Edmonton International Airport (EIA) are partners in the Airport Accord, an agreement to fulfill the economic development potential of EIA and surrounding lands. A year ago, they announced changes to transit services including:
    Adding a new stop at Premium Outlet Collection EIA, where Leduc Transit Route 10 and ETS Route 747 connect.
    Halving the ETS Route 747 fare from $10 to $5.
    Offering free shuttles between the EIA main terminal, Premium Outlet Collection EIA, Century Mile Horse Racetrack and Casino, the STARS hangar, and other facilities.

    The service changes worked. Ridership skyrocketed from 12,000 riders per month to more than 25,000.

    “We are built for economic success,” said Leduc County Mayor Tanni Doblanko. “Our region offers good business incentives, access to a hard-working, well educated workforce, and direct connections to major transportation routes. The popularity of this integrated transit initiative demonstrates how successfully the Accord partners have collaborated to increase prosperity in the region.”

    “Many of our residents work on the airport lands, and benefit from the development in this area,” said Mayor of the City of Leduc Bob Young. “Improving access through transit collaboration is good for our entire region.”

    “EIA is a major economic driver, creating jobs and diversification in the Edmonton Metro Region,” said Tom Ruth, President and CEO of Edmonton International Airport. “Working with our partners to ensure we have an efficient and integrated transit system benefits us all, including passengers, employees, businesses and visitors to the area.”

    Local businesses and transit riders have agreed to speak to media about their experiences using the integrated system.


    Media contact:
    Tarra Kongsrude
    Communications and Engagement
    City of Edmonton
    780-690-1605

    Nikki Booth
    Corporate Communications Manager
    City of Leduc
    780-340-7483

    Rudy Zacharias
    Manager of Communications
    Leduc County
    780-770-9279

    Chris Chodan
    Corporate Communications
    EIA
    780-700-3596
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    I appreciate what they have done Ian but without the mall this service would be history.

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    But hopefully the service will continue to gain more and more riders.

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    Cut the fare cost and ridership doubles.

    Who knew?
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    I think it would be great to see a route like St Albert-WEM-Century Park-Airport. West Edmonton Mall would be a popular destination, and greater frequency could be added to the airport.

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