Edmonton Mall of Museums

[Edmcowboy11]

I was reading another thread regarding the Alberta Aviation Museum and it's perhaps uncertain future because of the eventual closure of the city center airport. Throughout the discussion an idea was brought up which has a lot of merrit for a variety of reasons. The idea suggested was a mall of museums that could be located at the city center airport location in and around where the AAM is currently situated. It was suggested to that some of the following museums could find a home here too.

Alberta Railway Museum
Edmonton Police Museum
Edmonton Fire Fighters
Edmonton Transit
Edmonton Power
Edmonton Telephone Museum
Edmonton Transit
Loyal Edmonton Regiment Museum
The Edmonton Geneology Group

As I have continued to think about this concept I like the idea more and more. There are so many reason why a complex that would house a multitude of museums would be good for the city and for the region. This could become a larger tourist attraction for one thing. On the educational side this would give students, young and old a concentrated place to learn about a variety of things without having to travel all around the region.
I think an idea like this should be discussed. I'd love to see what others think of a complex like this for Edmonton. Could it happen?

[RichardS]

There are a few actually trying to make this happen... .

It is good to see that others like the idea.

[grish]

I see Edmonton Transit is so good, that it needs two museums

Great idea. I think a part of a runway can be preserved as one piece of an open air museum with all the mentioned museums lining it on both sides. Add to that the Neon Sign museum to light the way together with runway-themed lighting and develop the whole area similar to The Distillery District, Toronto with space for entertaining, condos, restaurants and shops and perhaps a year-round farmer's market in a rebuilt hangar.

[kkozoriz]

A native culture museum and an immigration museum would be great as well. Plus we could get some nice ethnic restaurants out of them.

Also, Science & Technology. Perhaps EPCOR and Telus could sponsor it, showcasing the power and telephone components.

[moahunter]

Originally Posted by kkozoriz

A native culture museum and

This would have to compete with the fine exhibit at the RAM though, which I expect will expand (perhaps at the new location?) when the RAM is split.

[kkozoriz]

Originally Posted by moahunter

This would have to compete with the fine exhibit at the RAM though, which I expect will expand (perhaps at the new location?) when the RAM is split.

It could still work. A major exhibit at a new native culture museum and a smaller overview at a new RAM. I see RAM as a general, broad based museum. The other museums are more focused on a specific subject.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Glad you like the idea

It is being worked on....and includes the concept of including all of the museums with poor or no locations that are Edmonton centric. With as much of a historic transportation system working as possible (steam trains, trolley, bus etc) to interconnect the different buildings.

This museums complex would need to be Edmonton centric to work effectively.

RAM is meant to tell the "Big Picture" story of Alberta, with Provincial support and big dollars they can.

The Edmonton Mall fo Museums would concentrate on Edmonton's specific chapter in the story of Alberta and work in concert with Fort Edmonton Park...picking up where their story ends.

That way they do not so much compete as feed each other.

The project is ongoing so we will have to wait and see...but thats for the support

Tom

[Hull534]

I really like this idea. A critical mass ,a draw and a recognition of the crossesction of heritage at this location.

Tom, How about a sample of this concept at your next air fest?

Planes , Trains and Automobiles perhaps?

[grish]

Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks

Glad you like the idea

It is being worked on....and includes the concept of including all of the museums with poor or no locations that are Edmonton centric. With as much of a historic transportation system working as possible (steam trains, trolley, bus etc) to interconnect the different buildings.

This museums complex would need to be Edmonton centric to work effectively.

RAM is meant to tell the "Big Picture" story of Alberta, with Provincial support and big dollars they can.

The Edmonton Mall fo Museums would concentrate on Edmonton's specific chapter in the story of Alberta and work in concert with Fort Edmonton Park...picking up where their story ends.

That way they do not so much compete as feed each other.

The project is ongoing so we will have to wait and see...but thats for the support

Tom

The only unfortunate things is the lack of prximity to water and the earliest of transprtation methods up the north sask. Perhaps a water feature as a part of the museum?

Like the concept. Hope to see it become a reality.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Hull534
Not for this Airfest...2011
Too much on the go this year to hope to be that far along.

2010
February...Building the BCATP exhibit
March......70th Anniversary of the Battle of Britain exhibit and start of celebrations
April........Women of the BCATP
May........Battle of Britain 2nd exhibit
May........"Spirit of Edmonton" BCATP Tour of Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba
(Yes folks here we go again with the Bi Plane, 4100km, 42 Cities/Towns, 39 BCATP bases, celebrations as we go and all in 14 days...)
June.......Airfest 2010 Celebrating the 70th Anniversary of the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan, Swing Dance, Corporate event and Airfest Sunday.
July........Aviation Heritage Week celebrating the 70th Anniverasry of the Battle of Britain, guest aircraft through the week.

Then I have to decide if I am renewing my contract

Grish
The river transportation system is really the purview of Fort Edmonton their world is up to the 1920's...the ideal of the Mall of Museums is to go forward from there so we work together to cover all of Edmonton's astounding history.

Tom

[Alex.L]

just please please please don't call it The Mall of Museums, or anything including the word "mall."

[grish]

How about the Transportation Museum District or the TMD?

[edmonton daily photo]

Why not mall... this is what mall means

promenade: a public area set aside as a pedestrian walk

[Alex.L]

how about something along the lines of Edmonton Evolution District?

I might be alone on this, but the word "mall" doesn't strike me as awe inspiring, which this should be.

[andy8244]

...I think "Mall of Museums" is perfect, it sounds so - how can I put it - it sounds so Edmonton.

[edmonton daily photo]

I think if everything becomes a "district" or a "quarter" then those titles start to become less and less special.

[Renton]

I'm of two minds about these sorts of things.

On the one hand, pooling resources and consolidating collections can turn an otherwise non-viable venture into a worthwhile attraction. For example, the Ukrainian Canadian museum and archives is bringing together several groups in the hopes of building a highly visible attraction on Jasper ave, where non existed before.

Conversely, Putting everything into one basket isn't always the best approach either. Where certain museums could exist on their own, I think it's often beneficial for them to be located in different parts of the city to contribute positively to a greater number of neighborhoods.
For instance, an Epcor/power museum could be a (small) part of the re-configured Rossdale station. A railway museum could be located at Strathcona junction, south of Whyte at the existing CPR lands. An Edmonton police museum would make sense at the old RCMP barracks if the feds ever move out of the Grierson centre (lets hope they do!), while a regiment museum could work in one of the old armouries.

Nevertheless, I applaud everyone involved in these sorts of initiatives. Its thinking (and more importantly doing )like this that improves the city for everyone.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Andy8244
".I think "Mall of Museums" is perfect, it sounds so - how can I put it - it sounds so Edmonton."

Actually it sounds too Washington DC for me, you see the Smithsonian Museums are on the Mall in DC...Natural History, Air and Space and several others which is why it is often referred to as the Smithsonian Mall of Museums.

To me Edmonton Mall of Museums is a working title for the project to progress.

Renton

I understand and to a large extent agree with your thoughts. Many of the current heritage institutions would not and should not be part of a project like this one.
Ukrainian Museum is a good example of one that should be a stand alone as is Fort Edmonton Park and the Radial railway operation in Strathcona.

But the idea for the project comes from the fact there are many very good museums that are ether in under sized or poor access locations or simply non functional due to lack of reasonable premises.

The project here is to create a critical mass that will allow these museums to move to the next level and in many cases become living museums that will then allow interaction with the public.

An example that would be successful is the Alberta Railway Museum, great artefacts, marvelous exhibits but is hidden in a poor location that is tough to access.

Bring it in to the project that is coming together and it will flourish and grow while contributing to the overall tourism product and fabric of the community.

There are others that will benefit the same way and it will add an new dimension to both the Educational and Tourism products currently offered in a cost effective method.

But to work it needs to stay focused...Edmonton Centric and not try to be all encompassing. RAM and others are meant to be the big picture story, we need to tell our own.

My two bits

Tom

[Alex.L]

Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo

I think if everything becomes a "district" or a "quarter" then those titles start to become less and less special.

quick, name another "district" or "quarter" in Edmonton.

now name another mall.

I rest my case.

[Hull534]

I would have to vote along with the concept of the " Mall" at least at first. If the location and access is best exploited to connect the exhibits with the public , This would be very worthwile.
It would give a unique spin on "spending a day at the mall" I view this in somewhat the same light what the people did in turning "Deadmonton" from slagging phrase into something that is quite positive and different.

Museums need to connect to the public and vice versa.

[grish]

How about thinking of the whole thing as a museum and each individual museum as a hall of the larger museum? Then Edmonton Museum on the Runway or Runway Museum or The Runway: Edmonton Museum of Transportation or something like that...

[edmonton daily photo]

Originally Posted by Ander

quick, name another "district" or "quarter" in Edmonton.

now name another mall.

I rest my case.

the arts district, the warehouse district..

The Quarters! is made up of 4 or 5 "quarters"

[Alex.L]

Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo

the arts district, the warehouse district..

The Quarters! is made up of 4 or 5 "quarters"

Still. My argument is basically the exact same as yours, the term "mall" has become less special than it was originally intended to be. I think if we call this a Mall it will cheapen it.

[MylesC]

I'm honestly not sure if we have the stuff to have a mall or a district at the moment.

Now...a City of Edmonton museum which houses it all in one building. That's another matter....

[Thomas Hinderks]

Actually Myles

We do

Tom

[andy8244]

Originally Posted by Ander

how about something along the lines of Edmonton Evolution District?

I might be alone on this, but the word "mall" doesn't strike me as awe inspiring, which this should be.

...that word doesn't go down too well with the majority of Albertans either - you'll just get a load of the Big Valley type oxygen thieves kicking up a stink.

[Edmcowboy11]

Originally Posted by andy8244

...that word doesn't go down too well with the majority of Albertans either - you'll just get a load of the Big Valley type oxygen thieves kicking up a stink.

Evolution of what? That term just doesn't make much sense for what would be there.

[Alex.L]

the evolution of Edmonton! When you talk about evolution do you simply point a finger at a person and say, see? Evolution! no, you look at history and reflect on how that human came to be.

The evolution of Edmonton since the Fort Edmonton days (as Ft. Edmonton would not be a part of it).

I'm not saying this is a great idea, I'm just saying naming it Mall of Museums is a terrible idea. Oh, and since this is supposed to be a "green" community, it would fit nicely with the whole district being a sign of the evolution of our city.

[Thomas Hinderks]

I would like to thank Gord Kent at the Journal for a good article.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/trave...885/story.html

But Gord the picture you choose made me look old and fat (lol)

The article is good but I will mention it makes it sound like its a little farther along than it is...but compared to some I've had over the years its GREAT!

There is obviously interest in the project as my phone has not shut up all day.

Tom

[RichardS]

Boy...if I ever meet the crackpot who proposed this idea....

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks

But Gord the picture you choose made me look old and fat (lol)

You look like the guy from the Badass Jacks logo!

[andy8244]

...aren't there some legal shenanigans afoot that could halt all this high-jinx in it's tracks?

[RTA]

^ What's your point?

[Thomas Hinderks]

RichardS...you already met the crackpot
SDM.........Thanks I appreciate the compliment, now if I only had his money

Andy8244..Things have to take their course, this is still in the concept stage and as it states in the article not yet even ready for other stakeholders.

As far as how I feel about the airport, check out the thread on City Centre Airport I'm real clear on how I feel about it.

But regardless of my personal passions as ED of the Aviation Museum I have to look at all options for the long term survival of our facility and this is one option that I believe will help the Aviation Museum beat the odds should the airport close and be good for the community as a whole.

Realistically, even just considering the plan that council approved in July this is a project that would be 5-7 years away from happening...so there is more than enough time to get feedback, work out the details, get stakeholders involved and work out the financials.

This is about the only project on my plate that has a practical time frame.

Tom

[Thomas Hinderks]

You know you are on the right track when...

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/B...190/story.html

http://www.montrealgazette.com/trave...190/story.html

Gotta love it when a story has legs and I look better in colour

Tom

[Blueline]

Rather "Dashing"
You may turn a few heads with the "Oh, A MAN in Uniform !!! " set.
Maybe the more affluent one's will donate ?
Perhaps a "Celebretiy Auction - Win a Date with a Flier" woulkd appeal ?

[Thomas Hinderks]

Another link just in from a friend

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/travel/...190/story.html

My friends at the Canadian National Aviation Museum are going to be annoyed with us in their hometown paper.

Tom

[Thomas Hinderks]

Victoria anyone

http://www.timescolonist.com/travel/...190/story.html

[Thomas Hinderks]

Just an update...

Things have continued to slowly move forward with this concept and a lot more research into the actual operation and function has been done.

Thanks to the folks at Balboa Park in San Diego and those in Frankfurt that have supplied information.

As to a name...the working version continues as Edmonton Mall of Museums but more and more traction is coming together for Edmonton Museums Complex.

Tom

[grish]

Edmonton History Complex? History Edmonton? History Edmonton Comples (HEC)?

good to hear about the progress. Look forward to a funding announcement of some sort???

[Sonic Death Monkey]

West Edmonton Mall of Museums? That will be guaranteed tourism!!!

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by grish

Edmonton History Complex? History Edmonton? History Edmonton Comples (HEC)?

good to hear about the progress. Look forward to a funding announcement of some sort???

Name is the least of the worries right now.

Working on the funding has to wait until we have met with all the possible stakeholders and have an understanding of which would like to be involved and what their needs will be.

So far that has been the slowest going...everybody is busy staying operational but we do need to make it much more of a priority.

Several have expressed interest and time will tell...

Tom

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey

West Edmonton Mall of Museums? That will be guaranteed tourism!!!

Uh...No

Nothing against the folks at WEM...but no.

Tom

[Sonic Death Monkey]

^ Lacking in sense of humor much?

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey

^ Lacking in sense of humor much?

Yeah..sorry

One of the reasons I haven't been posting much.
Too much going on and all of it serious

Tom

[Edmcowboy11]

So Tom, question for ya. Now in the ideal world, what museums would you like to see here, in addition to the Alberta Aviation Museum?

[Thomas Hinderks]

In an ideal world...

Well the ones listed at the start:

Alberta Railway Museum
Edmonton Police Museum
Edmonton Fire Fighters
Edmonton Transit
Edmonton Power
Edmonton Telephone Museum
Edmonton Transit
Loyal Edmonton Regiment Museum
The Edmonton Geneology Group

Plus:
Southern Alberta Light Horse
Lord Strathcona Historic Vehicle Troop
Military Vehicle Group
Automotive Museum (there is not one now but I would like to see one)
Alaska Highway or similar construction equipment museum
Museum of Modern Agriculture
Museum of electronic technology from radios to PDFs

One that has never been done to my knowledge is a display/museum of "green", for lack of a better term, technologies...how we have evolved in Alberta from the original windmills to wind generators of the 20s and 30s through the other technologies to today.

I think there could be a lot to learn there.

But really any museum or heritage operation that has a mandate that does not conflict with existing operations or Fort Edmonton Park.

As with many things telling the Story of how Edmonton has grown and evolved is a pretty big book so there's lots of room to be inclusive.

I do think a key would be museums/heritage organizations that could, on occasion, operate functioning exhibits bringing the history to life.

So that's sorta where I would like to see it head.

Tom

[Hull534]

I feel that a number of the institutions that are mentioned are going to be facing some serious sustainability issues going forward. An aging demographic, small older (high maintenance) facilities, access difficulties etc. To lose the work that went into preserving this heritage would be a tremendous loss.

To be able to centralise location and museum infrastructure could be a great thing. Having a larger updated facility will be draw in itself . Funding agencies would get a bigger bang for the buck . The sharing of the facility could develop synergies like incorporating historical theatre , museum fests, and the possibilities to coordinate on special themes and exhibits. I think the whole here could easily be much greater than the sum of the parts . I can see that it will not be easy to accomplish as it will be akin to herding cats as people are very attached to their institutions. Nothing is achieved without Vision and Hard work, and after all that is a central message in any museum.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by Hull534

I feel that a number of the institutions that are mentioned are going to be facing some serious sustainability issues going forward. An aging demographic, small older (high maintenance) facilities, access difficulties etc. To lose the work that went into preserving this heritage would be a tremendous loss.

To be able to centralise location and museum infrastructure could be a great thing. Having a larger updated facility will be draw in itself . Funding agencies would get a bigger bang for the buck . The sharing of the facility could develop synergies like incorporating historical theatre , museum fests, and the possibilities to coordinate on special themes and exhibits. I think the whole here could easily be much greater than the sum of the parts . I can see that it will not be easy to accomplish as it will be akin to herding cats as people are very attached to their institutions. Nothing is achieved without Vision and Hard work, and after all that is a central message in any museum.

You and I are seeing the same things...there are great advantages as you have mentioned and frankly are what drove me to the concept.

At the same time it will be difficult which is why it will take time to bring all the stakeholders together to make things happen.

Building a critical mass of Heritage will definitely create an area that is far more than the sum of its parts.

Thanks
Tom

[TM7]

I would very much like see something like that. Just don't call it a mall. The question is though how big each of the museums would be? If they're large, then attempts to visit too many at one time would result in a pretty shallow experience.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Each museum would be a differnet size...depending on its needs and the focus of its collection.

Some would be quite large and likely result in more than one visit to the faciltiy as a whole and as it grew become a presentation that would take several visits to see.

Thats part of the goal, as with the Smithsonian Mall fo Museums as well as the smaller versions (but still very very large) versions in San Diego and Frankfurt.

Tom

[bootlegga]

I agree that the "Mall of Museums" sounds terrible - I far prefer Musuem District (just like we have an Arts District downtown).

edited for spelling

[norwoodguy]

^Same here. Washington DC already has a claim on the use of that term and only serves as an unnecessary reminder of what Edmonton is primarily known for. If its use is an allusion to DC's Mall it is rather pretentious.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Its currently a working term and frankly what it ends up being called doesn't matter.

Right now the concept, co operation, planning and funding that are the important bits.

Tom

[grish]

The Edmonton Museum Walk

I know, I know.. not where your head is at the moment. But this does bring an idea to mind when the facility is becoming a reality and you need to generate some buzz. Have a naming contest. Unless, of course, it will be named after the most generous contributor.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Thanks Grish

But you are right my head is not in names right now.

Names are for Creative Advertisers and marketing committees, I'm a nut and bold make it happen sort.

Tom

[Edmcowboy11]

Well I do like something like the museum district.

[howyadoin']

This would tie in nicely, how i "envision" Edmonton maintaining its heritage while we transition into the future.. Keep aviation mueseum, air traffic control tower and an old hanger as well. Then name the area Blatchford Park.

Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11

I was reading another thread regarding the Alberta Aviation Museum and it's perhaps uncertain future because of the eventual closure of the city center airport. Throughout the discussion an idea was brought up which has a lot of merrit for a variety of reasons. The idea suggested was a mall of museums that could be located at the city center airport location in and around where the AAM is currently situated. It was suggested to that some of the following museums could find a home here too.

Alberta Railway Museum
Edmonton Police Museum
Edmonton Fire Fighters
Edmonton Transit
Edmonton Power
Edmonton Telephone Museum
Edmonton Transit
Loyal Edmonton Regiment Museum
The Edmonton Geneology Group

As I have continued to think about this concept I like the idea more and more. There are so many reason why a complex that would house a multitude of museums would be good for the city and for the region. This could become a larger tourist attraction for one thing. On the educational side this would give students, young and old a concentrated place to learn about a variety of things without having to travel all around the region.
I think an idea like this should be discussed. I'd love to see what others think of a complex like this for Edmonton. Could it happen?

[Thomas Hinderks]

Sorry I didn't respond earlier but I am not on the forum regularly anymore.

Edmonton Museums complex
Edmonton Museums district
Edmonton Mall of Museums
The 20th Century Promenade

The name will sort itself out...

The key factors are:
1) Building on the history where Fort Edmonton Park's mandate ends.
FEP does a great job of it's mandate, 1920 (+/-) and earlier and there is no point or advantage in competing.

2) Keeping the mandate to Edmonton...which in essence tells the history of Alberta
(sorry Calgary)

3) Creating a critical mass of Heritage institutions and sites so Economies of scale in:
-Marketing
-Operational expenses
-Core personnel
and other areas can be taken advantage of

4) Creation of a Tourism/Visitation/Education centre
-Making the overall easier and more effective to market, being relatively unique and a true time walk (ride) of history.

Working with Ft Edmonton Park you create the attraction of being able to step back and relive the growth of a centre from a trading post through to the modern age, ehter as a single long visit or a series of visits over time.

The educational opportunities are amazing ranging from grade school curricula through post secondary and even in to the trades and apprenticeship side of education.

Combining the past present and future to work towards making our city an even more successful and attractive place to live and visit.

Right now the step is to get the stakeholders together and that should happen in April one way or the other.

Tom

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Do you think this is something that can be incorporated into the 5 CCA redevelopment ideas, Tom?
http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ad.php?t=19819

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey

Do you think this is something that can be incorporated into the 5 CCA redevelopment ideas, Tom?
http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ad.php?t=19819

Easily

Which is one reason the push in making this happen was held off till the unveilings were done.

If anything it is a fantastic value added to any of the projects and allows major reuse of existing infrastructure. Many of the current modern buildings on the site could be moved and re purposed rather than destroyed, runways and taxiways used as the interconnecting walk and roadways as well as current open fields used for operating exhibits and even reinactments. (or concerts, hayrides, outdoor hockey in an old fashioned rink ETC ETC.)

A vibrant living breathing facility...almost the diametric opposite of a conventional museum.

Tom

[Edmcowboy11]

One thing though that would be nice to see done for a complex like this, is if there is any possibility of create a underground parkade. I know it sounds expensive and not needed but my reasoning is to minimize having a larger parking lot outside of this museum complex. An LRT stop would be wonderful for something like this too to maximize people getting there without having to drive.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11

One thing though that would be nice to see done for a complex like this, is if there is any possibility of create a underground parkade. I know it sounds expensive and not needed but my reasoning is to minimize having a larger parking lot outside of this museum complex. An LRT stop would be wonderful for something like this too to maximize people getting there without having to drive.

Actually I would not want underground parking

The parking lot, as we use the museum's, is more than just a parking lot.
We use it as a parking lot but also...
- A parade square
- An activity area for doing stuff from remote control cars/airplane to sports
- for Car and other shows
and various other activities.

Transit is great but the site is already on the major bus routes with excellent service.

Tom

[kkozoriz]

Why not have an actual square rather than using a parking lot? The idea is to have the museums close enough for people to walk between them. I'd hate to see a bunch of parking lots in what should be a pedestrian friendly area. Perhaps a dedicated parkade with retail bays similar to the Byward Market in Ottawa?

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by kkozoriz

Why not have an actual square rather than using a parking lot? The idea is to have the museums close enough for people to walk between them. I'd hate to see a bunch of parking lots in what should be a pedestrian friendly area. Perhaps a dedicated parkade with retail bays similar to the Byward Market in Ottawa?

I prefer multi purpose use assets...parking lot + other things.

The other side is cost... for the cost of an underground parkade many features and facilities could be added that would provide educational opportunities and fun.

My opinion anyway

Tom

[Thomas Hinderks]

Seeing as I have been asked a number of times fairly recently.

To update on this project:

Based on what I know, have been told and can foresee with the development this idea is dead.

I'm shelving any more effort on it for the time being.

Tom

[Edmcowboy11]

That's too bad cause I think it could have been a great idea

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11

That's too bad cause I think it could have been a great idea

Me too...shame

[Edmcowboy11]

So are there any further long term plans for at least the Alberta Aviation Museum?

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11

So are there any further long term plans for at least the Alberta Aviation Museum?

Not yet

We have been approached by a number of communities to move, but that is an absolute last resort and we will fight it.

But we have no answers from the City/Redevelopment as to if we will be able to expand or not.

The holding pattern is extremely tough and damaging.

The other side of the coin is we are exploring secondary sites to maintain a flying operation and are looking at about 6 sites ranging from Villeneuve to Cooking Lake to other communities to even starting fresh.

Not an easy time

Tom

[Edmcowboy11]

Well as for the primary site that you are currently at it would be nice if you had the opportunity to expand the museum operations as I think that even though the runways may be closing it is still very important to inform people of the aviation history of the area. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the hanger your in a protect historical building? If you could have a secondary site for flying operation that would be great.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11

Well as for the primary site that you are currently at it would be nice if you had the opportunity to expand the museum operations as I think that even though the runways may be closing it is still very important to inform people of the aviation history of the area. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the hanger your in a protect historical building? If you could have a secondary site for flying operation that would be great.

That is exactly what we are trying to do.

The existing site is both a Municipal A list and Provincial A list historic site.
The current building and foot print will be here.

The problem is we have been literally out of room for years, those from the forum that have been here will confirm that in a flash.

We are only about 1/2 way through our acquisition list, the collection will double in size in continuing to present Edmonton's aviation history.

Our furnaces are coming to the point that we can see a little farther down the road we will need to replace them, when that happens we fall under the new codes and restoration cannot be in the main building any longer, it has to be moved...but is also part of our seniors programming and education programming...so we need additional space to keep it on site.

With the runways closing, and we have already felt it with the one closed, it restricts (currently) and will eventually remove aviation events that pay a lot of our bills.

To replace that revenue we need to grow and enhance our exhibits, expand the collection as noted and increase the breadth and depth of our Education programming with both academic and Alberta Advanced Education Aviation Trades programming as well as secondary trades programming(we have a signed letter of interest from an industry partner to start an AME school as an example). Plus we need to go down new paths, as we are with our advanced simulator program (being developed with an industry partner) which also needs additional space.

But those programs require the room to be able to do them. Room we do not have and room we have no answers on if we will get.

A secondary site for flying historical aircraft pertient to the collection is comparatively easy. Grass strip, vintage style hangars and equipment as a living museum ( Google "Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome" as an example).

The main site with it's youth, seniors and educational programming, the need to expand the collection and accommodate all the needs and demands while remaining self sustaining...that's the challenge.

In short...we need a commitment to space to be able to expand into on the existing site as things progress.

To date we don't have that commitment and very quickly we will have to look at other options.

My personal 2 bits

Tom

[PJC]

^ If they open that runway at Namao does that help? Sure seems like it would to me. That would be an excellent candidate for either your secondary aviation location or even for the whole museum itself. Lots of history there too.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by PJC

^ If they open that runway at Namao does that help? Sure seems like it would to me. That would be an excellent candidate for either your secondary aviation location or even for the whole museum itself. Lots of history there too.

Tough question to answer when we really don't know whats in the cards out there.

The board has been clear that we will not give up this location unless forced to as it is really where the history happened and as a historic site it will remain here if we are here or not. So on site growth will have to happen ether way.

Namao does have potential as a secondary site, especially for large aircraft we cannot acquire before the ECCA runways close.

But till the exact deal out there is know who can say.

Cautiously optimistc

Tom

[Edmcowboy11]

I was looking at one of the videos for the redevelopement as well as some pictures, including one of the preliminary master plan birds eye view of the site and they are showing the museum still there of course. Now what I'm sort of curious about is as you have mentioned the museum needs more space to fulfil its full collection list. I'm just trying to picture it my head how much more space is needed. Would you be able to use the hanger size to give me an idea as to how much more room the museum needs? I've been to the hanger many many times so I have an idea of that building at least.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Space...

We predict over the next 20 years based on the collection from the acquisition list, anticipated growth and the addition of the education and trades programmng we are planning. Total land area about 4times the exisitng site foot print.

Making use of exisiting structures we would be talking about...

The existng Blue hangar behind us to the North and the ramp taxiway beside us to the east. I would guess total site all up of 10-12 acres incliding the approx 4 acres we are on. There would be an building extension needed between our exisitng building and the Blue hangar to the North, eventually another structure as well.

So in the grand scheme of things and compared to the overall site...not much.

Tom

[Edmcowboy11]

Thanks Tom that does answer my question. Well I do hope that there is opportunity for the museum to acquire the space needed as I think that the museum is already of great caliber but with a larger space and more to show this museum can be something that can significantly attract people to the city.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11

Thanks Tom that does answer my question. Well I do hope that there is opportunity for the museum to acquire the space needed as I think that the museum is already of great caliber but with a larger space and more to show this museum can be something that can significantly attract people to the city.

Thanks and as you can guess...I agree!

We have the opportunity and ability to be so much more...just need to get everyone to work together to get there.

Tom

[Thomas Hinderks]

Seems all of a sudden this is back on the plate

[Thomas Hinderks]

The Edmonton Museums District/Edmonton Museums Complex/Edmonton Mall of Museums seems to resurface in conversation on a regular basis...and has again.

Seems the idea of creating a critical mass of Living Heritage Operations focusing on Edmonton in the 20th Century is an idea that people (of all ages and demographics) seem to like quite a bit.

Not meant to replace Fort Edmonton in any way, but more to pick up where Fort Edmonton ends...(1920s +/-) and work together to tell the whole story of Edmonton in the 20th Century.

Creating such a site as a home for multiple museums that want to be involved makes a lot of sense and carries a great tourism and education potential that could be a great benefit to Edmonton as a whole.

So I thought I would throw it out there for comments...

Should Edmonton pursue such a district/complex for museums like...
Aviation Museum
Transit Museum
Police Museum
Military Museum
Telephone Museum
Construction Equipment Museum
Edmonton Power Museum
...pretty much any active museum about Edmonton in the 20th century

Where working together the museums could create a critical mass that would increase visitation, usage and reduce costs through combined operations?

or is it a few year old idea that has run it's course?

Be interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

In my highly biased personal opinion

[Edmcowboy11]

Well all those would be great, how about though as part of this is add a sports museum too.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11

Well all those would be great, how about though as part of this is add a sports museum too.

I've always thought that the concept should be inclusive to ANY museum that wanted to be a part...so why not? A Sports Museum with a playing field and an outdoor rink to demo the "old" ways should like it could be cool.

In my highly biased personal opinion

[Alex.L]

This is still a great idea

[Edmcowboy11]

Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks

I've always thought that the concept should be inclusive to ANY museum that wanted to be a part...so why not? A Sports Museum with a playing field and an outdoor rink to demo the "old" ways should like it could be cool.

In my highly biased personal opinion

Now an old rink to demo the old ways and then the rest of the time it could be a community rink, I think that would be a wonderful idea.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11

Now an old rink to demo the old ways and then the rest of the time it could be a community rink, I think that would be a wonderful idea.

Exactly the thought train.

In my highly biased personal opinion

[CalanTheHobbs]

Have it a Blatchford. It's an obvious pic for an aviation museum. There is lots of undeveloped land. It could be the destination community centre, anchored by an LRT line, surrounded by greenspace. Then, we can connect 118th ave with a streetcar or PRT to this site.

This project could spur private residential and commercial development in Blatchford.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by CalanTheHobbs

Have it a Blatchford. It's an obvious pic for an aviation museum. There is lots of undeveloped land. It could be the destination community centre, anchored by an LRT line, surrounded by greenspace. Then, we can connect 118th ave with a streetcar or PRT to this site.

This project could spur private residential and commercial development in Blatchford.

All the reasons why I considered ECCA as the site.

In addition if done on the South edge bordering airport road there will be a series of hangars ready to be repurposed as well as the Tower.

More less central to make it easy for schools to access and a great North Central Toruism site that could help drive 124 street and maybe even Alberta Avenue events. Also good for the Kingsway retail sector with additional tourism

In my highly biased personal opinion

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by moahunter

This would have to compete with the fine exhibit at the RAM though, which I expect will expand (perhaps at the new location?) when the RAM is split.

Actually Moa its not a competitor

The New RAM will be focused as a museum of Natural history.

So a tourist could come to Edmonton and tour
- An exceptional museum of Alberta's Natural history
- Visit Fort Edmonton Park to see how Edmonton developed up into the 20th Century
- Then the Museums complex to follow Edmonton through the 20th Century to nearly now.

It would create a unique Heritage presentation and compliment the other museums in the surrounding areas of the City.

In my highly biased personal opinion