Remember Me?
Home Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Travel and Tourism Are you visiting Edmonton in the near future, or if you live here, do you have ideas about how we can promote ourselves more effectively? What are our best – and worst – attractions? Post here for information or to provide suggestions!


Go Back   Connect2Edmonton > Growing Edmonton > Travel and Tourism
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24-07-2009, 04:02 PM   #1
tetejaune
First One is Always Free
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tete Jaune
Question Question regarding Tete Jaune - Pierre Hastination

Does anyone know where the name Pierre Hastination or Hatsination with regard to Tete Jaune came from - I see it spelled both ways. Other than to see it referred to in various articles I am unable to find a direct historical reference to this name.
tetejaune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-07-2009, 04:34 PM   #2
sundance
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Champions
Default

It seems that it's probably Hastination The Valemount Historical Society published
The Yellowhead Pass and its People (1984) you can view it here;
http://www.ourroots.ca/e/toc.aspx?id=6263
sundance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2010, 11:57 AM   #3
Jin
First One is Always Free
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Default

Any sources? The reference you mention lacks them. What company documents contain references to Hastination?

Any ideas? Thanks!

Am I looking in the wrong place -----> http://pam.minisisinc.com/pam/search.htm

Last edited by Jin; 16-10-2010 at 12:01 PM..
Jin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2010, 11:19 AM   #4
sundance
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Champions
Default

If you have friends in Winnipeg or are going their you might want to check out the Hudson Bay Company's archives, Hastination worked for both HBC and NWC and in 1821 NWC was acquired by HBC

200 Vaughan St Suite 130
Winnipeg MB

Or email them at hbca@gov.mb.ca


One book you might want to try and find that the government of BC references is;
The Making of a Great Canadian Railway: Grand Trunk Pacific Railway.
by F.A. Talbot published 1912 Seely, Service & Co.

Another spelling of his last name just to make your life harder is Hathawiton as published in;
Handbook of North American Indians
by William C Sturtevant 1978
published by MacGregor in 1969
sundance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2010, 03:15 PM   #5
Jin
First One is Always Free
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Default

Thank you very much sundance! This should be a start. I'll email HBC, I did do a search of their archives online, but nothing so far. Maybe they can help though.
Jin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2010, 10:38 PM   #6
Gemini
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Default

It may also help you to know that he was a.k.a. Pierre Bostonais.

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Pierre_Hastination
__________________
Smile, you're on Candid Camera.
Gemini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2010, 03:32 PM   #7
Gemini
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Default

If anyone does find out the origins of the name Hastination please post.
It's beginning to drive me nuts (and it's not a very far drive). I have tried to research this but no luck.
__________________
Smile, you're on Candid Camera.
Gemini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 01:46 PM   #8
Jin
First One is Always Free
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Post

HBC is looking into it for me. In the meantime I just read this, you may have already:

http://www.spiralroad.com/sr/pn/t/tete_jaune_cache.html
Jin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 12:28 PM   #9
Jin
First One is Always Free
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Post Email from HBC Archives about Tete Jaune

This is what they found in the archives. If any of you have any other leads, better questions for me to ask HBC Archives or information regarding the citations below, please don't hesitate to chime in. I am going to read the Smyth article when I get a chance.



Jin


___________________





Hi _____,

I hope you had a nice weekend. It seems Tete Jaune is quite a mystery. According to David Smyth’s Jasper National Park: Some Fur Trade Place Names of the Yellowhead Pass, there was confusion over who Tete Jaune actually was. Smyth wrote that:

“over the years such fur traders as Jasper Hawes, Francois Decoigne and, latterly, Pierre Hatsinaton have all at some point been argued to have been Tete Jaune. However, Hudson’s Bay Company records have proven that his real name was Pierre Bostonais. “

To find information on Bostonais (Bostonnais) I searched the following finding aids and indexes:

1) Hudson's Bay Company Archives Card Index
2) Hudson's Bay Company Biographical Sheets
3) Servant Engagement Registers (Reference code: B 239/u/1-3)
4) Servants' Contracts (Reference code: A32)
5) Index to the North West Company Ledger (F.4/32)
6) Index to Canadian Officers and Servants Ledger (A.16/53, 54)
7) North West Company servants' contracts (F.5/1)

In the above listed sources, Bostonnais was only listed once, in the Index to the NWC ledger (F.4/32). This ledger lists the accounts for NWC employees and has very limited information, just the year, the servant’s name and debits and credits on the account. Bostonnais is listed as Pierre Bostonnais dit Tête Jaune and the year is 1816.

What’s strange is that the name Tete Jaune is listed in the HBCA card catalogue and it refers to a search file on “routes” and to the Hudson’s Bay Record Society (HBRS) volume II, Colin Robertson's Correspondence Book, September 1817 to September 1822.

In regards to the HBRS, the reference is contained in correspondence and it is only in passing (the index says he is mentioned 3 times but 2 of them are mistakes). The one where he is mentioned is again brief, but it says “’departure from this place about the 22nd Inst., with John Harper, Charlo Phillip, together with Pierre Hatsinaton, Guide.” There is a footnote and the note says “Robertson, in his copy of this letter (B.190/a/2, fos 24d-25), named the guide Tete Jaune, a free Iroquois.” I guess the issue is that the HBRS names Hatsinaton as Tete Jaune whereas Smyth wrote that this is a misidentification and that Bostonnais was Tete Jaune. Smyth clears this up in his article and says listing Hatsinaton as Tete Jaune was a copying error.

As for the search file, these files were compiled by HBCA archivists when they were answering reference inquiries. According to our card catalogue, Tete Jaune is mentioned in the search file on “routes,” this is file concerned with trade/transportation routes. The file consists of transcriptions of archival records and there are numerous mentions to Tete Jaune. However, throughout the records he is only called “Tete Jaune,” “Iroquois,” “Guide” or “Iroquois Guide,” he is not referred by any of the other names, such as Hatsinaton, Bostonnais, so on. These reference do not really provide any description of the individual or the origin of his name.

According to David Smyth’s seemingly very thorough article on Tete Jaune, there are three references that confirm Tete Jaune as Pierre Bostonais. The one I mention above, as well as two other references in account books. I could easily photocopy these for you but the information value is very limited. While they do link Tete Jaune to Bostonais they do not provide information about the man. Smyth’s article (published in Alberta History, Winter 1984, volume 32, number 1) provides quite a bit of information on Tete Jaune and his activities. Our search file transcribes some of the records that Tete Jaune appears in but due to the fact that it is hand-written it is often not the easiest thing to read. What I could do it copy the article and the relevant pages of the search file. You could read these over and see if they provide the information you require. If you would like to order the archival records on microfilm you could send me a list of the reference codes for the records you would be interested in and I could track down the microfilm numbers. You would get these reference codes from the notes section of the article or from pages of the photocopies I would be sending you, the codes usually look something like B.190/a/2, Dec. 18, 1819. The cost of the copying would either be .20¢ per page or .50¢ per page depending on whether I can copy from the original or microfilm.

I hope this information helps and if you need anything clarified please do not hesitate to contact me. I look forward to hearing from you.

J_______
Jin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 12:40 PM   #10
Jin
First One is Always Free
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Question Between native of Normady, Iroquois and Metis?

Found this:

"The pêre de mon pêre [my grandfather] was named by the French trappers "Tête Jaune". He had established a trading post far up in the Pass. He was a very large man, tall and strong - a native of Normandy. His name was given him because, like many natives of Normandy with a strain of Scandinavian blood, he had a heavy crop of yellow hair tinged with gold..." (PABC, Peace River Material - Legends or Traditions of BC: "The True Story of the Yellowhead Pass", typed manuscript, dated c1918, unsigned, but evidently told by a grandchild.)

Source: Provincial Archives of BC "Place Names File" compiled 1945-1950 by A.G. Harvey from various sources, with subsequent additions

Interesting how his "grandson" states that he was a native of Normandy while other sources state that he was "a fair-haired Indian trapper of the Iroquois tribe" and another website states that he is "metis":
source: http://www.mountainmetis.com/pages/tete_jaune.html
Jin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 04:21 PM   #11
rod in edmonton
First One is Always Free
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Default http://www.albertasource.ca/Placenames/resources/displaycontent.php?source_id=5458

This link has some info too
rod in edmonton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 04:25 PM   #12
Gemini
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Default

I am sure I read somewhere that his father? was from a place in the U.K. called Hastings and the name Hastination comes from that.
__________________
Smile, you're on Candid Camera.
Gemini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2011, 02:11 PM   #13
Jin
First One is Always Free
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Default

Hi Gemeni,

Could you track down that source for us?

Hi Rod,

Thanks for the link,

'An Iroquois with some white blood. The white blood gave his hair a light tinge, thus gaining him the nickname "Tête Jaune." '

Questions that arise for me are:

What's the narrative and real name of Tete Jaune? If we cna find his father this would be solved?

Where is this record of the grandchild, can we trace it to living relatives today?

Is Tete Jaunce metis, or Metis? He was mixed as far as these references tell but it's hard to say if he was apart of any Metis community, Anglo or Iroqoius one, etc.
Jin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2011, 02:13 PM   #14
Jin
First One is Always Free
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Arrow Found something

http://spstephen.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/who-was-tete-jaune/

Last edited by Jin; 20-01-2011 at 02:21 PM..
Jin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.