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Real-Estate & Development This forum looks at specific real estate projects and developments - past, present, and future - in the Edmonton area. Here’s where to look for updates on developments, read about new projects, suggest improvements to buildings or other projects.


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Old 15-03-2012, 09:45 AM   #1501
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Rumour has it the Bothy is opening up a second location in the old Common space on 124th
Hello and welcome to yesterday!
See post #1488
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Old 15-03-2012, 11:02 AM   #1502
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Kerstin's Chocolates is closing down.
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...te-chronicles/

I could never find that place anyway! It was hidden away somewhere on 112 St north of Jasper Ave.
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Old 15-03-2012, 11:34 AM   #1503
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Disappointing to hear about Kerstin's... although I think it would have done better in a more visible location, and I don't think many people even really knew about it.
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Old 15-03-2012, 04:18 PM   #1504
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Rumour has it the Bothy is opening up a second location in the old Common space on 124th
Hello and welcome to yesterday!
See post #1488
Haha oops... I guess now you've heard it twice.
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Old 15-03-2012, 05:18 PM   #1505
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Disappointing to hear about Kerstin's... although I think it would have done better in a more visible location, and I don't think many people even really knew about it.
The blog/article says she's moving back to Germany. Didn't sound like her business was hurting.
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Old 15-03-2012, 08:08 PM   #1506
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^Yes, she's on a 'sabbatical' right now. The people running the place can't be there past April 15th, so she decided to close. I'm sure when she's back in Edmonton she'll open something new.
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Old 15-03-2012, 11:11 PM   #1507
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Ahh my mistake, not as bad news as I was expecting
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Old 17-03-2012, 10:46 AM   #1508
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Well, this is from Kelly's FB page:
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NEW LOCATION CONFIRMED 100%!!
10158 104 Street!!
Exciting Stuff! More Info To Come So Check Back!

I'm not sure which bay that corresponds to.

Thanks SDM and IanO and James for the address, however my liver may not thank you !!!

Time to learn self control dammit

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Old 17-03-2012, 12:47 PM   #1509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
Well, this is from Kelly's FB page:
Quote:
NEW LOCATION CONFIRMED 100%!!
10158 104 Street!!
Exciting Stuff! More Info To Come So Check Back!

I'm not sure which bay that corresponds to.

Thanks SDM and IanO and James for the address, however my liver may not thank you !!!

Time to learn self control dammit

possum
I decided to pick this time to cut off my supply of beer. Just when all these lovely places are starting up. Yeah, I can go and order a coke with my dinner. But I love beer and think it is the very best bevvy to wash down pub food. I love pub food!

But I check my waistline (there's a reason they refer to beer bellies ) and my budget (beer even at the level I drink -- two pints per meal) is expensive. And one pint per meal is impossible. Like eating just one piece of popcorn out of a bowl.

Oh well, maybe after my move and after I recoup my moving expenses, I might reconsider. No point moving to a place that is within easy staggering distance of so many places if I don't partake. Now is there?

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Old 19-03-2012, 06:59 PM   #1510
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crepe symphony cafe (on rice howard way, next to tres carnales) looked open tonight; didn't go inside but it looks like another business on RHW is up and running.
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Old 19-03-2012, 08:05 PM   #1511
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That's good to hear. I will have to pass by there tomorrow and have a quick look. I think the retail in the area really has a chance to start to work if things just keep progressing. Now if we can just start seeing some activity at the cornerstone building of RHW, the Kelly Ramsey, then I think this area can really coming back to life.
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Old 19-03-2012, 09:42 PM   #1512
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Hopefully that roof construction on the Telus Toll building will finish sometime this decade so that some scaffolding can be removed from RHW.
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Old 19-03-2012, 10:02 PM   #1513
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there is definitely a whole new section up there that is just starting up.
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Old 19-03-2012, 10:22 PM   #1514
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I noticed that too the other day. I too hope that they can complete the construction so they can open things up again.
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Old 22-03-2012, 01:22 PM   #1515
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The Instaloans beside the Hat is now closed with a sign directing people to their 105th Street location. Hmmm, possibilities are numerous into what could go into that space.
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Old 22-03-2012, 01:33 PM   #1516
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Old 23-03-2012, 09:28 AM   #1517
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Craft beer place under construction under the Treasury:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...r.html?cmp=rss

Sounds interesting, but I'm not keen on lining up at the same entrance as all the douche-bags going into the Treasury.
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Old 23-03-2012, 09:53 AM   #1518
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And unfortunately that might be the one disadvantage of that space. Too bad they wouldn't be able to have a seperate entrance location. This could also be good for the hotels nearby, more ammenities to offer to the people that stay at the hotels.

Now we need to see some more retail move onto Jasper ave.
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Old 23-03-2012, 09:56 AM   #1519
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Too bad they couldn't put it in the Churchill's space.

I'll definitely be a customer at this place though.
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Old 23-03-2012, 10:03 AM   #1520
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Actually that would have been a whole lot better.
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Old 23-03-2012, 10:47 AM   #1521
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Instead of underground, I would have preferred something more street level...say, the old Japanese Village space.
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Old 23-03-2012, 11:23 AM   #1522
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Any rumours about what IS happening at Churchills? This morning I spotted a couple of young, well-dressed folk coming out of the space minus hardhats and safety footwear. That's the first time I've see civilians in the area since construction started in earnest.
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Old 23-03-2012, 11:25 AM   #1523
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No plans for Churchill's yet... the space was taken off the market for a while, but the party that financed it is looking to put it back on the market this spring! I have confidence that there will be some movement.

The renovation to the roof, though, is essentially done and that space will be opened up again to NCL residents.
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Old 23-03-2012, 11:28 AM   #1524
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And since "cash mobs" are a popular topic of discussion around here these days how about a "sweep mob" who shows up outside The Treasury to clean their sidewalks in an attempt to shame them into buying a push broom.
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Old 23-03-2012, 11:29 AM   #1525
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^^thanks Fblack.
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Old 23-03-2012, 11:30 AM   #1526
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Saw about 15 people with clipboards and hardhats checking out the retail kiosk space in Central Station yesterday too. Not sure what they were up to.
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Old 23-03-2012, 12:33 PM   #1527
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City Centre Mall news...Telus is opening in the old Hakim Optical space (lower level east). I wonder if they're closing the kiosk in the pedway near Timmys?
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Old 23-03-2012, 01:01 PM   #1528
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^

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Old 23-03-2012, 07:52 PM   #1529
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Hello Everyone,

Just back from trips to Calgary and Winnipeg. Second time I have been to Winnipeg this month. They don't have as much economic vitality as Edmonton, but there downtown as alot of nice features: not everything is a square block, beautiful buildings, and their main blvd is quite attractive. They even have a few choice skyscrapers. All this, plus a new museum (human rights), MTS hockey center, new football field, beautiful baseball diamond, and a really nice airport (an upgrade from Edmonton's), and Winnipeg seems to be doing great.
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Old 23-03-2012, 09:10 PM   #1530
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^


So before Christmas they shifted two cellphone kiosks from the mall space in front of the former Hakim Optical store over to ECC West. And now ECC is going to either shift the Telus kiosk to take up retail space in an actual store. Or just duplicate the kiosk in the pedway next to Timmies with another store just roughly two levels down.

So whats next? Perhaps filling the former GAP store with another Starbucks? That would almost be as logical .

ECC needs more than just enlarged phone kiosks morphing into store fronts to fill the vacancies.

But they did the same with Wind. It went from a kiosk to an actual store that always seems far too dead, the former Wind kiosk would have sufficed just fine.

Obviously the Oxford leasing department is not getting any substantial tenant inquiries to fill the "obvious" vacancies so they will accept. Wind, Telus, Virgin, Bell, Rogers etc to fill the dark empty stores.

They might as well rename it Edmonton Cell Centre (ECC) They at least can keep the initials the same.
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Old 23-03-2012, 09:25 PM   #1531
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Well from a comment told to me by one of the tennants the mall has been trying to move their focus to something more like southgate in style of stores.
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Old 23-03-2012, 10:07 PM   #1532
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Well from a comment told to me by one of the tennants the mall has been trying to move their focus to something more like southgate in style of stores.
Since Southgate basically have almost all their cell retailers in kiosks (there are a couple of major exceptions "ie Apple") ECC is not accurately following the way Southgate is filling the spaces with popular fashion, jewellry, homestore like tenants and leaving the phones in kiosks.

To me anyways, but that is just my opinion.
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Old 23-03-2012, 10:54 PM   #1533
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Don't panic...maybe Telus sees the value of a full service store in the mall. God knows that kiosk in the pedway is always busy, and any time I needed some servicing with my phone they always sent me to their 118 Ave/149 St location.
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Old 23-03-2012, 11:45 PM   #1534
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Don't panic...maybe Telus sees the value of a full service store in the mall. God knows that kiosk in the pedway is always busy, and any time I needed some servicing with my phone they always sent me to their 118 Ave/149 St location.

I will agree with you on the point that yes the Telus kiosk is busy. So in a certain way a larger store to replace the kiosk would work. It just seems to me that ECC is constantly losing other "various types" of businesses then replacing them more with service retailers. (ie phones, dental clinics, opticians (though Hakim that did not last all that long)

Yes I do realize that phone kiosks/stores do have a strong customer base and are very successful but when they keep increasing the amount of space within the complex to those types of tenants it diminishes the attractions to other customers not presently requiring a new cell or the needs to service it.

When Telus moves into the space in ECC east it will be bigger than the kiosk but "if" they close the present location it really will not diminish the wait time all that much anyways.

The fact that they have not filled GAP's former space (except for that one day Free Store) tells me they are either asking too much, or not trying hard enough to find a desirable tenant on the upper floor that has large steady crowds that pass by during the lunch hour and afterwork rushes between EEC, Manulife, HSBC and Commerce Place.

It totally strikes me as a missing front tooth in someones smile. In my opinion it comes down to the management of ECC does not seem to be working hard enough to fill that space with something desirable or unique to either downtown or the entire Edmonton market.

It looks like they are just managing to shuffle some existing tenants to other larger spaces and perhaps even striking them "A Deal" in lease rates to fill some larger spaced gaps.....pun intended.
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Old 24-03-2012, 11:49 AM   #1535
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Telus is loosing their main floor store in the Telus Building when ATB moves in. This is their new main location.
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Old 24-03-2012, 01:01 PM   #1536
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I'm referring to that ECC wants to have the mall as mainly a fashion mall.
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Old 24-03-2012, 01:09 PM   #1537
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^I have heard similar from a source at oxford
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Old 24-03-2012, 04:19 PM   #1538
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Hey brett, I noticed your place is closed now. What are your plans now?
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Old 24-03-2012, 05:05 PM   #1539
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We sell our products out of a few other stores like Ascendant Books , the River Cree gift shop , some City of Edmonton shops in Ft. Edmonton Park and the RAM.. as well as our online store.
Unfortunately we had to shut down because of staffing issues, it wasn't due to a lack of sales. We were only originally planning to be open November and December so we hadn't planned staffing longer term than that haha.
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Old 24-03-2012, 06:09 PM   #1540
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^What products are those?
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Old 24-03-2012, 06:33 PM   #1541
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^What products are those?
Seriously I have tried some of their products and they are some of the best soap and skin products I have ever used. I'm now a loyal customer it is also great to support such a fantastic local business who definitely knows how to produce great products.

Honestly wherever they are sold they are worth the slight hunt to aquire use them. Enabling them to expand to being even a greater local business.
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Old 25-03-2012, 02:41 PM   #1542
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Common a coming, can't wait.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/life/...804/story.html
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Old 26-03-2012, 10:12 PM   #1543
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Just went for a walk, the new bar in the Jaffer building on 104th is open, it was pretty busy in there with a 'now open' sign in the window... looks like a pretty cool space, cant wait to get there for a few drinks . Anyone know what it is called? No sign up yet.
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Old 26-03-2012, 11:05 PM   #1544
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Awesome. Will stopping by this week.
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Old 27-03-2012, 12:25 AM   #1545
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Hey that's great to hear. So I wonder, are they now going to start working on the convenience store? I would really like to see that space completed to help further add more life to that corner.
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Old 27-03-2012, 08:23 AM   #1546
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^I would guess that we see action in there very quickly.
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Old 27-03-2012, 09:51 AM   #1547
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I was at the 711 on 109st and they had signs posted hiring for a "new location opening soon"...
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Old 27-03-2012, 01:54 PM   #1548
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I was at the 711 on 109st and they had signs posted hiring for a "new location opening soon"...
Dear God, I hope they don't cover their windows with fruit decals.
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Old 27-03-2012, 01:58 PM   #1549
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Just went for a walk, the new bar in the Jaffer building on 104th is open, it was pretty busy in there with a 'now open' sign in the window... looks like a pretty cool space, cant wait to get there for a few drinks . Anyone know what it is called? No sign up yet.
"Cask and Barrel" according to Jaffer website

http://www.jafferinc.com/
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Old 29-03-2012, 09:27 AM   #1550
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Cask and barrel:

Hit it up last night. Great size, nice mix of seats, good prices, nice menu, great owners.
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Old 29-03-2012, 10:12 AM   #1551
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^ 104 and Jasper is open already? or is this a different location?
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Old 29-03-2012, 10:56 AM   #1552
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All they need now is some signage to show that they are there. I walked past the location the other night and when I got right up to the business I could see all kinds of activity inside but when looking from Jasper ave you'd never know anything is there.
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Old 29-03-2012, 12:12 PM   #1553
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Hey Ian, Any word on when are the 25 foot tall elms going in on the west side of 104 th ?
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Old 29-03-2012, 03:09 PM   #1554
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Anything further on "Mercer Tavern" The sign says opening this spring.
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Old 29-03-2012, 03:19 PM   #1555
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Old 29-03-2012, 03:29 PM   #1556
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Do they serve any interesting microbrews? So tired of Big Rock...
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Old 29-03-2012, 03:37 PM   #1557
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Their bottled beer selection was pretty good that I saw. They didn't have the 606 IPA that I asked for, so I settled for a Fort Garry Dark Ale instead. First drink was free too! They also had Yellowhead on tap.

Panini was good. Beef vegetable soup was pretty bad, to be honest, bland and tasteless. I liked the room, Edmonton needs a lot more of these small, unique pubs/bars. Most of the ceiling is still to be completed, but overall I liked the decor.

Once they get everything sorted I'm sure it'll be a hit. Looks like they'll also have a sidewalk patio, or at least I'm basing that assumption on a double door that can open on to the sidewalk. From 5:30-7pm last night the place appeared to be half full or more. Not bad for a soft opening.

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Old 29-03-2012, 03:45 PM   #1558
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Anything further on "Mercer Tavern" The sign says opening this spring.
construction seems to be moving along nicely. They have workers in there prettymuch daily.
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Old 29-03-2012, 10:12 PM   #1559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmontonfan View Post
Anything further on "Mercer Tavern" The sign says opening this spring.
construction seems to be moving along nicely. They have workers in there prettymuch daily.
May long target
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Old 30-03-2012, 08:46 AM   #1560
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Blo blow dry bar opening soon downtown in the Saveon complex. It's a popular chain/franchise out of Vancouver.

http://blomedry.com/locations/blo-edmonton
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Old 30-03-2012, 11:09 AM   #1561
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^interesting
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Old 30-03-2012, 12:26 PM   #1562
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^^ I think there's already a similar place next to the Starbucks
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Old 30-03-2012, 03:52 PM   #1563
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Blo blow dry bar opening soon downtown in the Saveon complex. It's a popular chain/franchise out of Vancouver.

http://blomedry.com/locations/blo-edmonton
Hmmm, they could hire a decent designer for their website to start...
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Old 30-03-2012, 08:17 PM   #1564
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I would be surprised if apple is opening up at ECC.
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Old 31-03-2012, 10:27 AM   #1565
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The Starbucks in the Quest has officially shut down . Papered up windows and a sign on the door saying it is now closed directing people to other locations.
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Old 31-03-2012, 10:40 AM   #1566
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Maybe Regency should think about un-tinting those windows...
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Old 31-03-2012, 10:54 AM   #1567
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Thats odd! the place was always packed. But i did notice that depending on the day the vast majority of customers seemed to be MacEwan students hooked up to their laptops almost using it as a "study hall"
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Old 31-03-2012, 12:14 PM   #1568
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The Starbucks in the Quest has officially shut down . Papered up windows and a sign on the door saying it is now closed directing people to other locations.
Crazy!! I have never seen a Starbucks close down in the city!
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Old 31-03-2012, 12:17 PM   #1569
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^WHAT! Blame BK for the tinted windows! And blame our lack of contiguous urban fabric, lack of density, and pedestrian connections for them shutting down. Maybe we'll get something better though!
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Old 31-03-2012, 01:27 PM   #1570
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I would be surprised if apple is opening up at ECC.
Well that's good... You won't be disappointed at least cause Apple will not be opening up a store at Edmonton City Centre. It WON'T happen... Ever! Moving on...
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Old 31-03-2012, 03:43 PM   #1571
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Stopped by Cask & Barrel last night. What a great space!!!
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Old 31-03-2012, 09:57 PM   #1572
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^WHAT! Blame BK for the tinted windows! And blame our lack of contiguous urban fabric, lack of density, and pedestrian connections for them shutting down. Maybe we'll get something better though!
So True, but who needs density now that we have the Henday......sprawl to leduc and nisku now. !!
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Old 02-04-2012, 07:21 AM   #1573
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I was at The Common Friday night (9910-109 street); what a incredible change from what was there before. Nicely decorated and some really neat light fixtures. There are some unique beers on tap including Sapporo, Blanche de Chambly and another Unibroue flavour (Maudite?, I forget). It was a nice place for after-work beers Friday and by the time the DJ started up around 9 or 10, the place was packed.

The menu has been revamped and they will start opening for lunch on Tuesday. They are closed Sundays and Mondays for now.
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Old 02-04-2012, 09:31 AM   #1574
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^so I hear. I know where I am going later this week. Great new addition.
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:40 AM   #1575
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We need more of these articles/stories

People told him downtown was dead by mid-afternoon. He smiled, nodded. He keeps the place open until midnight; there’s a help-wanted sign in the window, for day and night shifts.

Given time, Zee could list 10,694 reasons why he loves Edmonton.

“This is the best city to raise your kids,” says the man who has lived all over the world. “This is a beautiful life here.”

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Cafe+...172/story.html
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:53 AM   #1576
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We need more of these articles/stories

People told him downtown was dead by mid-afternoon. He smiled, nodded. He keeps the place open until midnight; there’s a help-wanted sign in the window, for day and night shifts.

Given time, Zee could list 10,694 reasons why he loves Edmonton.

“This is the best city to raise your kids,” says the man who has lived all over the world. “This is a beautiful life here.”

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Cafe+...172/story.html
I read the same article and one thing came across to me. His get up and go and hardworiking desire and attitude made me realize it that in many ways its is newcomers to Edmonton that seem to be more willing to take that chance and make things change for the better.

While for some reason many longtime residents/business owners (frequently not all the time) seem to be afraid to take that chance or are just happy it seems with "the way things are"
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:01 AM   #1577
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Great article.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:08 PM   #1578
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Jaffer Building:
Job No 122257263-001: To change the use from a Specialty Food Service to a Convenience Retail Store (7-11)
10355 - JASPER AVENUE NW
Plan 5727HW Blk 3 Lot 74A
7-11 CANADA

Starbucks Quest:
Job No 122338157-001: To change the use from General Retail to a Specialty Food Services (684 sqft of Public Space in CRU #6 (Suite 10382))
10382 - 105 STREET NW
Condo Common Area (Plan 1025042)
LAN'S ASIAN GRILL LTD

Manhattan Building:
Job No 122209592-001: To operate a Health Services use within an existing Professional Financial office Support Services Building; and to construct interior and exterior alterations (New front and rear entry)
10345 - 105 STREET NW
Plan NB1 Blk 4 Lots 158-159
WOLSKI DESIGN GROUP LTD.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:11 PM   #1579
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Lan's is pretty good. Nice to see them growing past their 118th ave location.
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:22 PM   #1580
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Are they moving from 118 Ave, or opening a 2nd location?
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:24 PM   #1581
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Not sure.
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:53 PM   #1582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
Starbucks Quest:
Job No 122338157-001: To change the use from General Retail to a Specialty Food Services (684 sqft of Public Space in CRU #6 (Suite 10382))
10382 - 105 STREET NW
Condo Common Area (Plan 1025042)
LAN'S ASIAN GRILL LTD
So is Lan's going into the Starbucks location or the other empty bay.

Quote:
Manhattan Building:
Job No 122209592-001: To operate a Health Services use within an existing Professional Financial office Support Services Building; and to construct interior and exterior alterations (New front and rear entry)
10345 - 105 STREET NW
Plan NB1 Blk 4 Lots 158-159
WOLSKI DESIGN GROUP LTD.
Will this be into the bay fronting the street or upstairs?
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:04 PM   #1583
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Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
Starbucks Quest:
Job No 122338157-001: To change the use from General Retail to a Specialty Food Services (684 sqft of Public Space in CRU #6 (Suite 10382))
10382 - 105 STREET NW
Condo Common Area (Plan 1025042)
LAN'S ASIAN GRILL LTD
So is Lan's going into the Starbucks location or the other empty bay.

Quote:
Manhattan Building:
Job No 122209592-001: To operate a Health Services use within an existing Professional Financial office Support Services Building; and to construct interior and exterior alterations (New front and rear entry)
10345 - 105 STREET NW
Plan NB1 Blk 4 Lots 158-159
WOLSKI DESIGN GROUP LTD.
Will this be into the bay fronting the street or upstairs?
Lan's into the old Starbucks location.

Probably front bay. The top floor was completely leased by Urban Systems a while ago.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:23 PM   #1584
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Well if it's the front bay I hope that the windows are not covered up. I wonder what kind of Health Services will be moving into the building.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:28 PM   #1585
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Speaking of window coverings...another offender is that health supplement shop in the old Second Cup space (2 doors from Suede).
They have covered theirs with lifestyle posters and the doors have tinted glass. I keep thinking it's a private fitness club or something, therefore I never go in.
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:29 PM   #1586
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Greeny - vinyl walk is this weekend.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:31 AM   #1587
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at the manhattan building the dentist who owns the building is taking the entire main floor save for 750 square feet. the rear will be the dental clinic, and the front a training centre. this likely means the windows will be blocked out. from what i was told, the landlord is looking for a similar use for the corner space
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:32 AM   #1588
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manhattan building?
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:40 AM   #1589
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^105st just north of the legacy.

I miss 'Bronze' nightclub
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:08 PM   #1590
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Urban Systems and GEC Architecture are tenants in this building.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:48 PM   #1591
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Apparently 'Sanku 2' on Jasper/103st will become 'Phat Noodle'
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:06 PM   #1592
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Falafel 101 is opening on 101 St beside Swedish Jewelers. Temporary signage on the building looks like it was written by a kindergarten child.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:39 AM   #1593
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Apparently 'Sanku 2' on Jasper/103st will become 'Phat Noodle'
Literally jumped pho joy when I saw that sign.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:52 AM   #1594
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^LOL

We really do need 1 or 2 good places pho pho downtown
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:41 AM   #1595
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Citadel eatery to have yet another go...

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/life/...005/story.html
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:48 AM   #1596
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Citadel eatery to have yet another go...

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/life/...005/story.html
Hope they improve the service. I went there twice. Both times they took one look at my dining-alone, non-young, non-trendy self and put me in the worst table, served me reluctantly and the food was cold.

I still tipped reasonably because that is my policy, but I didn't go back.

Eve
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:13 PM   #1597
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^Simply put, it is invisible. They need to do a small addition to the west and a much nicer/semi covered patio.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:38 PM   #1598
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It's more than mystifying how an eatery with a built in client base from the Winnie + Cit cannot make a go of it
Too small
poor kitchen
bar on the far side of the resty
??????????????????????????????
I cannot figure it out ..........
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Old 15-04-2012, 02:20 PM   #1599
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The retail spot in the Central LRT pedway (next to old Churchills and entrance to Cambridge Lofts) is looking like it will open very soon; it appears to have lots of post office boxes inside and will also apprently be offering coffee. Their website is: http://www.orbitslrt.ca/ but it appears to be under construction as well.
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Old 15-04-2012, 07:13 PM   #1600
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^Simply put, it is invisible. They need to do a small addition to the west and a much nicer/semi covered patio.
No the NW corner - would be better...even if it costs a few bucks. They can spill into the garden area a bit.
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