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DebraW
03-12-2008, 10:20 AM
Harper to address the nation

By Meagan Fitzpatrick, Andrew Mayeda and Juliet O’Neill
December 3, 2008 9:48 AM

OTTAWA - Prime Minister Stephen Harper will address Canadians in a nationally televised speech Wednesday night in an effort to make the Conservative case in the political manoeuvring now under way on Parliament Hill.

An official in Liberal Leader Stephane Dion's office said his party has asked the television networks to give equal time for an address by Dion.

The prime minister's move comes as Gov. Gen. Michaelle Jean returns to Canada from a European tour and is expected to receive a request from Harper to suspend Parliament.

Jean has been kept up-to-date about the developing events that were sparked almost one week ago following the government's fiscal update and opposition moves to form a coalition with the support of the Bloc Quebecois.

Link:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Harper+address+nation/1026300/story.html

soycd
03-12-2008, 10:36 AM
Why would the opposition ask for equal time? After all, they are just that - the sitting opposition. Nothing more.

Damage control? Perhaps, but not just for the citizens of Canada. The impact from this circus is far-reaching....



"Canada is fast getting an international reputation for being a banana republic with snowflakes," said Fen Hampson, director of the Norman Paterson School of International Affairs at Carleton University in Ottawa.


Canada's parliamentary crisis is sowing worry among its international allies at a time of global instability and will drive away foreign investment, Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon said Tuesday.

The charge was immediately rejected by the NDP's foreign affairs critic, Paul Dewar, who cited the accusation as one more example of "hyperbole and exaggeration" by a Conservative government desperate to cling to power.

Link -> Edmonton Journal (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Political+crisis+worries+allies+Canon/1023040/story.html)

I cannot believe that Dewer would suggest that this Parliment Hill fiasco has no impact on the Canadian economy from foreign investors.

Unreal.

etownboarder
03-12-2008, 10:42 AM
I have mixed feelings about this address. Harper better use this time to explain the situation, but not to convince Canadians that things should be done the Conservative way, or no way at all. He better be very careful how he uses his time to speak to Canadians.

moahunter
03-12-2008, 10:44 AM
I'm guessing it will be an explanation of why he has prolonged (sic - that thing is hard to spell) parliament, which I think he will do today. The conservatives will present their budget, and the opposition can then pass their no confidence vote in January, after having got an x-mas ear full from their constituents.

Either that, or he has somehow talked the GG into another election, which the Conservatives would sweep into majority right now.

etownboarder
03-12-2008, 11:03 AM
OTTAWA - Prime Minister Stephen Harper will address Canadians in a nationally televised speech Wednesday night in an effort to make the Conservative case in the political manoeuvring now under way on Parliament Hill.


The Conservative Party better be paying for this... that's all I can say.

Medwards
03-12-2008, 11:06 AM
They are still the party in power... they don't need to pay for this.

etownboarder
03-12-2008, 11:09 AM
They should be paying for this... the Conservative Party is using this time to promote their own side of things concerning Canada's political future, not gov't issues.

Medwards
03-12-2008, 11:16 AM
they are the ruling power. They are the government. Currently, their own side of things is a government issue. Deal with it

davidnorwoodink
03-12-2008, 11:18 AM
One can certainly tell that this address is aimed primarily at Central Canada and Quebec. We'll get to watch it at 5 p.m. here, 4 p.m. in BC. Not exactly prime time in the West.

soycd
03-12-2008, 11:26 AM
... the Conservative Party is using this time to promote their own side of things concerning Canada's political future

You don't know that for a fact.


...not gov't issues.

Contrary to what you mentioned previously, it IS a Parliamentry issue. The Prime Minister is certainly within his rights to speak to the citizens of his country.

HAHA....or, would you prefer a 90 minute prime-time viewpoint show moderated by Ben Mulroney?....

Conservatives: 41 min 48 sec
Liberals: 22 min 30 sec
Bloc: 14 min 18 sec
NDP: 10 min 48 sec
Independents: 36 sec

Equal airtime based on representation?

grish
03-12-2008, 11:29 AM
i think there is a difference in government addressing the people or the conservative party doing an election-type announcement. But all Harper has to do to avoid that conflict is to never mention conservative party and talk on behalf of current government. i doubt this is going to be a big enough issue with other parties. they will probably say something to point out the potential conflict, but it will not go anywhere. governments in power have used this loop-hole for as long as mass media has existed.

soycd
03-12-2008, 11:48 AM
i think there is a difference in government addressing the people or the conservative party doing an election-type announcement. But all Harper has to do to avoid that conflict is to never mention conservative party and talk on behalf of current government. i doubt this is going to be a big enough issue with other parties. they will probably say something to point out the potential conflict, but it will not go anywhere. governments in power have used this loop-hole for as long as mass media has existed.

Harper's political career is hanging by a thread. It will be interesting to see how he handles this.

grish
03-12-2008, 11:50 AM
that reminds me, can I borrow a pair of scissors?

soycd
03-12-2008, 11:53 AM
that reminds me, can I borrow a pair of scissors?

Ask Gilles Duceppe. For a $billion$ or so, he will lend you a pair (no questions asked!)

lux
03-12-2008, 11:55 AM
The rule has always been that the Government can get free airtime to talk about matters of national importance. But the rule has also been that the opposition gets equal airtime to reply, for free.

There is nothing unique about that today and it is fair for both sides.

As an interesting side note, conservative governments under Klein always made sure to purchase their airtime, giving up their right to a free broadcast, to make sure the opposition wouldn't get the equal freebee. Not sure if Stelmach hides from scrutiny in the same way.

Swizzlerz
03-12-2008, 11:56 AM
I hope he calls an election..

RichardS
03-12-2008, 12:04 PM
I expect to be disappointed.

lux
03-12-2008, 12:05 PM
Harper to Address the Nation

I wonder which nation he means?

It was Harper who decided the Quebecois deserve to be called a nation, but now he is calling Quebecers nothing but a bunch of separatists who will hold the country to ransom.

My how times change Mr. Harper!

soycd
03-12-2008, 12:12 PM
Harper to Address the Nation

I wonder which nation he means?

It was Harper who decided the Quebecois deserve to be called a nation, but now he is calling Quebecers nothing but a bunch of separatists who will hold the country to ransom.

My how times change Mr. Harper!

Gee whiz, I wonder which nation he is referring to?

That's the best you can muster? Broad association of Harper with a headline?

Alllll-righty then.

raz0469
03-12-2008, 02:49 PM
Gee whiz, I wonder which nation he is referring to?

Many a constitutional expert asked the same question. I don't know if you weren't paying attention, but the Conservatives passed a motion to recognize the Quebequois as "a unique nation within Canada" with indeterminate implications down the road. So yes, it's incredibly hypocritical of Harper to be chastizing the Coalitition for courting BQ support when he did the exact same thing and re-opened the sovereignty debate at the Federal Parliamentary level.

RichardS
03-12-2008, 02:52 PM
...which is exactly why I disliked that version as much as this one. ...and the exact reason why I know this one is doomed.

The BQ stands for one thing only.

davidnorwoodink
03-12-2008, 03:20 PM
I understand that Dion is getting 10 minutes on national TV to respond to Harper's address.

RichardS
03-12-2008, 05:08 PM
So, I am underwhelmed. As predicted, it said nothing - we've heard it before.

Great. No fire, no fervor, nothing.

grish
03-12-2008, 05:13 PM
the guy doesn't get it. he needs to go.

bicycles
03-12-2008, 05:20 PM
what an inspiring leader we have.

RichardS
03-12-2008, 05:39 PM
Dion - failed as well.

I'm going home and getting drunk. This is a sad sad day in Canada.

ThomasH
03-12-2008, 06:23 PM
All aspects of our government need a compete and total overhaul this includes all parties, personnel, and policies.

PickLeZ
03-12-2008, 06:27 PM
We are in rough, rough shape. Harper has got to go. I am confident the coalition can hold us together long enough to sort everything out. Nothing needs to be done at the political level. Economically, it's really just common sense. None of the opposition parties can do anything radical (despite people's rabid fear of those crazy NDPers)...we just need to get past the next 12 months. Things will stabilize at every level, by that time I'm confident the Tories will have a new leader (as will the Grits), and we will know exactly what we're looking economically....

But Harper has GOT to go....*shakes head*

PickLeZ
03-12-2008, 06:28 PM
All aspects of our government need a compete and total overhaul this includes all parties, personnel, and policies.

yeah...that's exactly what we need right now with the economy hittin' the skids...:rolleyes:

rime ice
03-12-2008, 06:35 PM
The strangest and most bizarre aspect of this spectacle is that an unelected official, read Gov General, has the ultimate decision on how this plays out. Very strange part of a relatively strong political system we have here in Canada. As for the Coup d' etat Canada style, i am very ashamed of our political establishment. We can no longer claim the moral high ground when it comes to Canadian Ethics and Morals in our Government. Whats' that saying if you can't beat them join them. I realize this is all Constitutional, but, that alone does not make this right or acceptable.

grish
03-12-2008, 06:43 PM
can someone find a link to Dion's speech. I missed it and cannot find it on-line anywhere. from a bit I did catch, it looked like it was shot with a web cam. :(

PickLeZ
03-12-2008, 06:48 PM
The strangest and most bizarre aspect of this spectacle is that an unelected official, read Gov General, has the ultimate decision on how this plays out. Very strange part of a relatively strong political system we have here in Canada. As for the Coup d' etat Canada style, i am very ashamed of our political establishment. We can no longer claim the moral high ground when it comes to Canadian Ethics and Morals in our Government. Whats' that saying if you can't beat them join them. I realize this is all Constitutional, but, that alone does not make this right or acceptable.

I don't see anything wrong with how this is playing out. Our system is structured the way it is EXACTLY for times like these. Like it or not, it is HARPER who forced everyone's hands here, including the GG. Think about it. He can't lose. If GG calls an election, worst case Harper loses a few more seats and gets an easy way out should he decide he wants it. He doesn't want power if he can't have unmitigated power (and btw, it's only OUR money paying for the election. If GG prorogues, he wins by scoring political points at every other party's expense. If GG allows the coalition to take power, Harper has ducked the biggest economic crisis the world has seen in 80 years, and may still be there to take up the cause for the election in a year.

Change nothing. The system works. God willing, the GG shows a bit more wisdom than I can currently give her credit for...I'm sick of seeing her jaunting around on the taxpayer dime, promoting minority values and producing nothing tangible from her office.

DebraW
03-12-2008, 06:51 PM
can someone find a link to Dion's speech. I missed it and cannot find it on-line anywhere. from a bit I did catch, it looked like it was shot with a web cam. :(

Ask and you shall receive:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Stephen+Harper+2008+statement/1028147/story.html

Dion's is not working at the moment.

RichardS
03-12-2008, 07:17 PM
Better clips on cbc.ca

grish
03-12-2008, 07:19 PM
i just read Dion's transcript--not very inspiring. Perhaps I am more politically inclined with the liberals or perhaps because my expectations of a leader of the opposition are lower, this speech didn't underwhelm me as much as Harpers speech. But both said basically the same old thing. One thing is for sure, if confidence vote is held on monday, then by the end of May neither Harper nor Dion are leaders of their parties. If only they could take Layton with them. Perhaps that is the positive outcome we all need.

grish
03-12-2008, 07:21 PM
Better clips on cbc.ca

cannot find them there. am I blind or are they hidden? or both?

ps never mind. was blind. all better now!

MrOilers
03-12-2008, 07:22 PM
Watching those speeches made me feel like I went into a time machine back to September 2008.... and also made me realize why so few people bothered to vote last election.

kcantor
03-12-2008, 08:03 PM
The strangest and most bizarre aspect of this spectacle is that an unelected official, read Gov General, has the ultimate decision on how this plays out. Very strange part of a relatively strong political system we have here in Canada. As for the Coup d' etat Canada style, i am very ashamed of our political establishment. We can no longer claim the moral high ground when it comes to Canadian Ethics and Morals in our Government. Whats' that saying if you can't beat them join them. I realize this is all Constitutional, but, that alone does not make this right or acceptable.
no, the strangest and most bizarre aspects of this spectacle is hearing that "Leaders are working to cope with the recession to bring forward the kinds of investments that will help their people and their economies. Rivals are working together. Why not in Canada?" from someone who should be asking that first of himself and his party.

when the person that says that means working with any elected parliamentarian EXCEPT those belonging to the party with the most seats in the house, there is something disingeneous between the phrase and the real goal. that we are expected to believe it anyway... that's strange.

and when the person that says that also says he will work 24 hours a day to find a solution (which means he doesn't currently have one despite criticizing others who have - with the assistance of his party i might add - so far maintained one of the strongest relative economies in the world for not doing enough)... and when he says he will quit in less than five months time whether he has found the solution for us or not... and when he can't even tell us who will be continuing the search in his stead when he does retire next may... that we are expected to accept that as a plan for economic stability... that's bizarre.

rime ice
03-12-2008, 08:07 PM
If the GG has this kind of authority and power under our constitutional monarchy we need an amendment. Under no circumstances should an unelected and appointed citizen be endowed with this sort of power. They should be vetted out publically and be approved by a majority of the sitting MP's. This would ensure we have the most able and objective voice holding this position. Come on, could you imagine Adrienne Clarkson and John Raulston Saul being in this position during their holidays, er i mean, official government business during HRH Clarksons reign. The thought makes me shudder.

nobleea
03-12-2008, 08:35 PM
^ she was selected by the liberals, and harper and the conservatives applauded her selection. i guess that would be the majority of the sitting MPs?

it's a ceremonial post. she really can only give a yes or no answer to whatever the prime minister asks. protocol says she agrees with his advide (call an election, prorogue, etc). the only time the GG went against the advice of the sitting PM was the Lord-Byng affair which, ironically, worked out very well for the sitting PM.

Jimbo
03-12-2008, 09:33 PM
Harper blew a great chance to regain the high ground here. Dion's clip was a disaster. Much like Dion himself.

Did anyone notice the book over his left shoulder. "Hot Air". The clip was delivered late (7:29 Central... Lloyd Robertson: "Apparently the tape has not shown up yet, may not show up yet.... Goodbye for now") - too late for broadcast on CTV, who were stuck waiting for it. Maybe he was doing a few takes, you know, the infamous Dion do-overs. Then it was out of focus, not much better than a webcam.

Jean Lapierre, broadcast journalist and former Liberal MP, stated on CTV that this was the worst performance he'd ever seen from the Liberal Party, and mocked the party's video address.

"This was the cheapest video. I don't know if the Liberal party has financial problems, but they didn't have to go to a high school kid to get their video made," he said on CTV's Mike Duffy Live. "You ask people to forget about their normal TV show tonight. We did that on TVA. We had a million people waiting for a show call 'Le Poulet' -- 'The Chicken.' We didn't even get the egg!"

CTV's Robert Fife reported.

"I'm told that (Bloc Quebecois Leader) Gilles Duceppe ran into Mr. Dion in the elevator and asked 'What the hell happened?' and Mr. Dion said, 'We're not used to being in opposition," Fife said.

I was going to post the link to the YouTube video, but the original has already been altered to remove the "Hot Air" book over his shoulder.

lux
03-12-2008, 09:57 PM
I for one was not judging who should lead the country based on the quality of the camera.

Jimbo
03-12-2008, 10:12 PM
That was my thought too when I first heard of it - so what? Graham Richardson addressed that feeling directly during the same Lapierre interview. I can't quote directly, but he said, in case anyone thinks we are being petty about this and that it isn't a big deal, I assure you it is. He went on.

Duceppe obviously shared the same opinion. The NDP were profoundly disappointed.

Dion's not ready for prime time, and definitely not ready for Prime Minister. The Liberals (who I don't really paint all with the same brush) should throw him under the bus before he brings them all down.

Personally, in a perfect world for me, I'd like a centrist Liberal government with Ignatief as leader, minus Dion, Goodale, and a few other blowhards.

Chump
03-12-2008, 11:00 PM
....right, and what would the pro-coalition crowd be saying if Mr. Harpers video was late and blurry? I wonder....

This entire fiasco is ridiculous. And then this high school video production, handed in late no less, tops it off. Yeah, there's our new leader. Good grief.

MrOilers
03-12-2008, 11:25 PM
I was going to post the link to the YouTube video, but the original has already been altered to remove the "Hot Air" book over his shoulder.

I saw that too! that was the hilghight of the night for me. How the hell could someone setting up the video not notice it? That was so odd it almost looked like the party was deliberately sabotaging Dion. It's probably a book on global warming or something, but in the context of a speech where he was trying to gain the confidence of the people, that was funny!

I can't find a good video of it on the web, either. I don't think they've been doctored, it just looks like the resolution is crappy. I bet a clear copy with the "HOT AIR" will surface somewhere soon enough.

Terry
03-12-2008, 11:35 PM
I'm not gonna take a cyber cheapshot at someone because the video wasn't as clear as the Prime ministers. Of course no one has asked how much money did Harper spend to get his video done.

I find it funny that with all this media covering this story, that both Dion and Harper couldn't be assigned a capable cameraman.

kcantor
04-12-2008, 12:49 AM
I for one was not judging who should lead the country based on the quality of the camera.
nor was i. and while harper's performance has been far from perfect there has certainly been more compromise than was offered from the other side of the floor. instead we have a potential coalition between two groups who want to share the responsiblity of governing the country during what is shaping up to be the most difficult economic climate we have seen in the past century (although we tend to hear that every ten years or so), one of which can't arrange a confidential call-in conference call and the other who can't organize a timely press release. granted, like the quality of the camera neither of these things are earth-shaking events but if you can't even manage the little things, are you really ready to manage the entire country?

JayBee
04-12-2008, 01:10 AM
Ken, for the wildly arogant economic update from a minority postion last week, Harper has rightly lost the confidence of the house, and through lie upon lie is now making a mockery of parliament. Nothing - I repeat - nothing he is accusing the coalition of is anything he and Day hadn't proposed himself, and his utterly ridiculous lies about the stupidest things like whether or not there were flags at the signing are an belittlement to his own job. This is 100% his doing, and you, as a pre-declared partisan should be more outraged than anyone at what he's doing to your party and dare I hope, our country?

Instead you dismiss wildly unethical behaviour as the NDP's fault at teleconferencing? Claim that video quality is more damning than obvious lies and subterfuge?

I don't get you at all.

kcantor
04-12-2008, 02:52 AM
Ken, for the wildly arogant economic update from a minority postion last week, Harper has rightly lost the confidence of the house, and through lie upon lie is now making a mockery of parliament. Nothing - I repeat - nothing he is accusing the coalition of is anything he and Day hadn't proposed himself, and his utterly ridiculous lies about the stupidest things like whether or not there were flags at the signing are an belittlement to his own job. This is 100% his doing, and you, as a pre-declared partisan should be more outraged than anyone at what he's doing to your party and dare I hope, our country?

Instead you dismiss wildly unethical behaviour as the NDP's fault at teleconferencing? Claim that video quality is more damning than obvious lies and subterfuge?

I don't get you at all.
i'm not sure what you don't get - i thought i have been pretty staightforward with my opinion. the conservatives don't have a majority but are the governing party. if any of the other parties think they can secure the confidence of the house they insist the conservatives have lost, they are free to do so and would have my best wishes should they be successful.

failing that those other parties are free to support the government individually or en masse or free to bring down the government and send us all to the polls where they would still have my best wishes. they will be free to campaign on whatever they choose from - from policy to coalitions to exercising common courtesy in deed as well as in word - if they choose and they are free to be elected - or not - on that basis.

poor behavior may well not be excusable (and may well prove not to be re-electible either) but i don't think you have found me excusing it. in any case poor behaviour is still no excuse for incompetence or for the attempted construction of a government absolutely no-one voted for.

i get tired of hearing that the conservatives with - 47% of the seats in the house of commons - have "no mandate" because 63% of voters did not vote for them while on the other hand a coalition government that not a single person in the entire country voted for could somehow have a greater mandate despite the 55.6% of voters who cast their vote for someone other than one of the two coalition members and all of those who did vote for one or the other of them were told they would not support a coalition. where is the mandate in that? as for being a "pre-declared partisan who should be more outraged than anyone", my opinions are pretty well-known but no-one knows who i voted for and whose sign was on my lawn might surprise you. regardless, my opinions here would be the same if harper's and dion's positions were reversed.

what's not to get?

JayBee
04-12-2008, 03:10 AM
Ken, he's been governing like Joe Clarke for crying out loud. It might be construed as proud, but in a position of minority it is plain foolhardy to play this kind of brinksmanship when the economy is credibly under threat. We don't need another election now, we need action, and the only alternative to the coalition right now is inaction. You don't like the prospect of your party out of the drivers seat, that's clear. But the Prime Minister thinks he's James Dean playing chicken and it's in all of our ride.

He has lost all hope of winning a vote of confidence by alienating every other party to this point, and thus we have either an election three scant weeks after the previous election simultaneously when we least need it least due to the economic crisis (which you also understated, meanwhile GM is going bankrupt), when the Liberals have already committed to a leadership race, and what if all we get is another minority anyways?

Yet you're arguing semantics as if there were nothing at stake.

What I don't get is this: Do you seriously care more about your party's ego than the country's economy and state of democracy?

grish
04-12-2008, 06:00 AM
Ken,
Instead of Mrs. Duncan a new NDP MP, the invitation to join the teleconference went to a Mr. Duncan, a conservative MP. Mr. Duncan decides that it would be fun to tape and distribute the conversation that was private and privileged is one example of the low-blow politics that people hate regardless of the party. It certainly does not belong in the governing party who should set an example. I have already been critical of Dion's speech. You claim Harper reached out. What he actually said was--we invited the opposition to join, but they refused and continue to refuse. This is not reaching out. This is placing blame and making excuses. He should act like a prime minister and then he would be rewarded with support. Please take your rose coloured contacts off. Harper has been a very sad mockery of what prime minister should be. He needs to go. I hope people stop making excuses for this clown. Harper's resignation is one good way for all parties to move forward.

kcantor
04-12-2008, 07:34 AM
Ken,
Instead of Mrs. Duncan a new NDP MP, the invitation to join the teleconference went to a Mr. Duncan, a conservative MP. Mr. Duncan decides that it would be fun to tape and distribute the conversation that was private and privileged is one example of the low-blow politics that people hate regardless of the party. It certainly does not belong in the governing party who should set an example. I have already been critical of Dion's speech. You claim Harper reached out. What he actually said was--we invited the opposition to join, but they refused and continue to refuse. This is not reaching out. This is placing blame and making excuses. He should act like a prime minister and then he would be rewarded with support. Please take your rose coloured contacts off. Harper has been a very sad mockery of what prime minister should be. He needs to go. I hope people stop making excuses for this clown. Harper's resignation is one good way for all parties to move forward.
i'm a developer - if we didn't wear rose coloured glasses (never could wear contacts) we'd starve to death. and mr. duncan's doing what he did is no excuse for what was said at that meeting and what it divulged in regard to previous meetings - that mr. layton felt even his own caucus didn't need to know what and how and when he offered their support for a policy that was completely counter to what they campaigned on.

McCauley resident
04-12-2008, 08:40 AM
....right, and what would the pro-coalition crowd be saying if Mr. Harpers video was late and blurry? I wonder....

This entire fiasco is ridiculous. And then this high school video production, handed in late no less, tops it off. Yeah, there's our new leader. Good grief.

These amateurs believe they should run Canada........ :smt078


The timeline (all times ET):

* 6:15-6:30 - The Liberals miss their promised deadline to deliver Dion's statement to the television networks.

* 6:40 - Liberals arrive with a single tape at the press gallery in Ottawa. They were supposed to deliver two tapes: one in French, one in English. They arrived with a single tape in DVD-minicam format, which is not broadcast quality.

* Shortly after 6:40 - The Liberals decide to run back to their offices -- a block away -- because the French portion of the tape needs another edit.

* 7:05 - Liberal staffers are still in their offices as the networks go to air with the Harper address.

* 7:07 - Harper's statement finishes and network anchors are forced to kill time as they wait for Dion's address.

* 7:10 to 7:15 - Liberal staffers arrive back at the press gallery on Wellington Street with a DVD-minicam player that they had taken from their own offices, along with the associated cables. There is still only one tape, not two. A press gallery official tells the Liberals that the gallery is not the feed point and an argument ensues. The Liberals ask why they weren't told that earlier. The feed point is next door at the CBC building, which is the long-established feed play point for all network pools. The Liberals are informed that they need to be walked into the building by authorized staff.

* 7:20 - English network anchors are still live on television, wondering where the tape is. CTV has still had no communications from the Liberals about Dion's address.

* Approximately 7:15 - CBC receives the tape and begins dubbing into French and English versions. This takes about 10 minutes.

* 7:28 - CTV decides to go off-air and back to regular scheduled programming at 7:30. CTV has still not seen a feed of the tape.

* 7:28 - CBC incorrectly punches out the finished feed only to their network.

* 7:30 - CTV signs off broadcast at scheduled time.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081203/dion_video_081203/20081203?hub=TopStories

bpeters
04-12-2008, 09:35 AM
Ken,
Pull the pin now. Save yourself. The pro-co autobots will assimilate you with their pre-programmed rhetoric and monotonous drone.;)

One thing that SEEMS to be prevalent in most of these politcal threads this week is that there is a healthy dislike for Harper. Right across the board. And a lot of the pro-co venom is directed at him. Maybe justified. But this isn't a witch hunt. Think bigger. For the record, I didn't vote for him.
The sanctimonious pro-co approach, thinly veiled behind the Constitution, is just a little frightening. What's next? Torches and pitchforks?

grish
04-12-2008, 09:40 AM
imagine that! constitutional process is compared to lynching.

soycd
04-12-2008, 09:57 AM
Was I the only one that watched the events unfold on CPAC?

You should have seen the puzzlement on Peter Van Dusen's (host of Prime Time Politics) face when he was communicating with his control room when they were confirming that they had the tape or not. Priceless!

Wrecker
04-12-2008, 09:58 AM
To say that a party has lost the confidence of another party, is a dumb statement to begin with, as no party has any confidence/trust/like for the other. The question that should be asked is if a party (the Conservatives) has lost the confidence of the people, or do the people have more confidence in the coalition, and the only way to do that is with an election.


Something that does trouble me is that the appointed GG (who is not even Canadian born) has so much power.....

grish
04-12-2008, 10:00 AM
why do people on various thread find it important to mention that someone is not canadian born? of all the irrelevant things to mention, this one is probably the most irrelevant considering the nature of this country.

Wrecker
04-12-2008, 10:28 AM
why do people on various thread find it important to mention that someone is not canadian born? of all the irrelevant things to mention, this one is probably the most irrelevant considering the nature of this country.


If you think its irrelevant, then I guess you shouldn't have mentioned it. To me, it just seems out of place, kinda like naming a stranger as your executor.

RobW
04-12-2008, 10:43 AM
The comments in this thread are almost as entertaining as the politics under discussion. People can get pretty intense about defending their political parties. Kudos to Kcantor for remaining clear-headed here.

Isn't playing partisan politics really what started this mess??? I see more of the same old same same old continuing to play out like this all across Canada this week. Common sense should rule in Canada, not rhetoric. Jeesh!

I don't care who leads this country as long as they LEAD. If our current elected "leaders" were focusing on what's best for Canada, then this kind of deep embarrassment wouldn't happen.

Luckily, Canadian parliamentary law does have rules that apply to both ruling and opposition parties. There are precedents. Rule of law will determine outcome, not rhetoric, party one-upmanship or sound-bites.

As soon as this circus is resolved, maybe our ruling government will notice there is a financial crisis. Isn't that more important?

Ironically, I expect more rhetoric response here (smile).

McCauley resident
04-12-2008, 10:51 AM
As soon as this circus is resolved, maybe our ruling government will notice there is a financial crisis. Isn't that more important?

I know you mean what you posted, so I present a snippet from the following link...

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=4c09150c-703c-4cc8-b51a-90af83d8865e


For the "truth," here, we need to look to the actual content of the Tory plan, the vilified fiscal and economic update unveiled last week by the Finance Minister.

It is a political fiction and an ideological gambit to claim that Jim Flaherty's update was an empty effort in the face of crisis.

Nobody much reads fiscal updates, and Mr. Flaherty's effort may well be the least read document in Canadian financial history. It fell to the floor and was trampled into oblivion by the hysterical misrepresentations of Mr. Dion, Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe.

It may not be the big-spending interventionist document preferred by the Opposition.

But it most certainly can be seen as a solid and appropriate economic statement, a reasonable pre-budget agenda that shows Ottawa has a steady and systematic approach to policy.

The Flaherty update contained ideas on taxes, spending, infrastructure, deficits and government waste that are sound conservative policy options. It was reasonably based on actual economic forecasts rather than the calamitous and opportunistic speculations of opposition politicians who are looking for a new excuse to bring back massive government spending.

...:smt023

Chump
04-12-2008, 10:58 AM
If you think its irrelevant, then I guess you shouldn't have mentioned it. To me, it just seems out of place, kinda like naming a stranger as your executor.

That's not a great analogy. She moved here when she was 11. She's been in Canada for 40 years. She's a Canadian citizen. She's not a stranger. It's a non issue.

One of the only countries in the western world (maybe the only?) that doesn't have a separate head of state vs head of govt is the US. This is not uncommon.

Harper stated numerous times that he will work with the opposition on the budget prior to delivery in Jan during questions after meeting with the GG. I will be interested to hear their reply to that. That's about it as far as any olive branches go I figure.

kcantor
04-12-2008, 10:59 AM
To say that a party has lost the confidence of another party, is a dumb statement to begin with, as no party has any confidence/trust/like for the other. The question that should be asked is if a party (the Conservatives) has lost the confidence of the people, or do the people have more confidence in the coalition, and the only way to do that is with an election.


Something that does trouble me is that the appointed GG (who is not even Canadian born) has so much power.....
on the other hand, one of the things that often "restores my faith" is seeing how regularly "appointed" individuals are able to rise to the expectations of their office completely independent of their background and of any preconceived strengths or weaknesses attributed to them by others.

Wrecker
04-12-2008, 11:00 AM
^Thats impressive, I thought the NP wasn't Conservative friendly. Anyways, now that the GG has agreed with the PM to suspend parliament, hopefully some sanity will return to our government.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/agrees+suspend+Parliament/1031197/story.html

soycd
04-12-2008, 11:13 AM
Anyone see last night's Mike Duffy interview/discussion with Sheila Copps and two others? I'm tellin' ya, that Sheila Copps is a nut-job. Talk about unreasonable.

RobW
04-12-2008, 11:18 AM
I understand your passion about this issue, MacCauley resident. I would like to be able to defend my party of choice here too, but I am too embarrassed by their recent actions.

However, my real point is that there IS a mechanism in place for a minority government to present a vote of Non-Confidence motion in the House - And a legal process for dealing with it. I doubt our opinions will really have any effect on the the eventual outcome.

Agree or disagree, the rules governing procedures in the House have to be followed. We had our say at election time and this is what we got.

I just find it difficult to defend either party when both parties have created so much to answer for. I would be laughing if it wasn't so serious.

bpeters
04-12-2008, 11:20 AM
imagine that! constitutional process is compared to lynching.

imagine that. another thinly veiled constitutional reference.

Wrecker
04-12-2008, 11:26 AM
If you think its irrelevant, then I guess you shouldn't have mentioned it. To me, it just seems out of place, kinda like naming a stranger as your executor.

That's not a great analogy. She moved here when she was 11. She's been in Canada for 40 years. She's a Canadian citizen. She's not a stranger. It's a non issue.

One of the only countries in the western world (maybe the only?) that doesn't have a separate head of state vs head of govt is the US. This is not uncommon.

Harper stated numerous times that he will work with the opposition on the budget prior to delivery in Jan during questions after meeting with the GG. I will be interested to hear their reply to that. That's about it as far as any olive branches go I figure.

I probably shouldn't have brought it up in this thread, but there were and still are, a lot questions about her.

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2005/08/22/RealGG/

I realize its old, but I thought it raised a lot of the "questions".

McCauley resident
04-12-2008, 12:02 PM
I understand your passion about this issue, MacCauley resident. I would like to be able to defend my party of choice here too, but I am too embarrassed by their recent actions.

However, my real point is that there IS a mechanism in place for a minority government to present a vote of Non-Confidence motion in the House

I can defend my party of choice if need be & I am not embarrassed by their actions.

Having said that, I posted in a different thread (just after the election) that my best case scenario was a Harper minority (just below a majority); he would be the Prime Minister that would be kept on a leash (unlike the dictators Chretien & Martin)...

And I suspect we agree upon the mechanism for turfing out the government then going back to the voters. That would be all opposition parties defeating a confidence motion such as the budget that was to be presented in February.


It is the back room deal by the Bloc, NDP & Liberals to take over the country that disgusts me - not one of their leaders or party platforms suggested that during the very recent election. In fact, they publicly stated that they had almost nothing in common & voters should never support the other parties.

For those three political leaders to be plotting immediately after the election to grab power at any costs against the democratic wishes of Canadians; to make Dion Prime Minister when almost every key member of the Liberal Party said he was not fit to lead their political party; to showcase Dion as Canada's lame duck leader "to the world" until the Liberal Party held a convention...

All of that disgusts me - completely...

MrOilers
04-12-2008, 12:09 PM
I completely agree with that last post by McCauley resident.

I get a strong impression that the opposition parties aren't being honest. I don't think they've "lost confidence" in Harper - they know he is capable, nut are afraid that he is on the brink of getting an elected majority government. Taking him down will force the Conservatives to rebuild, and would be good for the other parties because they can keep the Conservatives in a minority position. That's just the impression I've been getting as this thing unfolds.

JJ young
04-12-2008, 12:19 PM
I completely agree with that last post by McCauley resident.

I get a strong impression that the opposition parties aren't being honest. I don't think they've "lost confidence" in Harper - they know he is capable, nut are afraid that he is on the brink of getting an elected majority government. Taking him down will force the Conservatives to rebuild, and would be good for the other parties because they can keep the Conservatives in a minority position. That's just the impression I've been getting as this thing unfolds.

I disagree I have lost all faith in Harper becuase his word is no good. He screwed me on the income trusts $35B from us seniors when he said he wouldn't. Said he wouldn't run a deficit then he goes and runs one and tries to cover it by selling our assets on fire sale. Wastes our money on a election for no reason at all. Harper will never get my vote again.

Oh and we get a 60% tax increase in Edmonton WOW becuase they don't want to contribute to our city's so now it is the Home owner who gets punished, why should we pay for it all when everyone uses these services. I am so sick of the Tory's right now I won't even be voting for them provincial next election, we need people who care and do their jobs.

Blueline
04-12-2008, 12:26 PM
I am not in favour of a coalition or the prorogue during these economic times. Let cooler heads prevail. Let the political map be re drawn down south by Barak et al which (hopefully) will begin to stabilize the markets. Mend fences and move on. Your country awaits action!
That said:
If you squeeze, prod, poke, punch and kick your opponents thru your political moves whether thru direct statement, attempts to corral thru limiting finance and limiting right to strike ( Wrong venue to have done this but I do agree with it in principal) all done in a thinly veiled guise of "saving the economy". Please, please, please don't act all coy and surprised when they lash back at you!
"Daddy, let's go bug the little wild animals in the tin foil cage you have them in, OK ?"
Maybe you let the foxes into or taught them how to get into the hen house yourself ?

To then have the audacity to wrap yourself in the flag to gain defense is weak at the least and insulting at its height.
What will be used next the Bible?

I hope I have not offended anyone here but this whole soap opera is astounding

Escondido
04-12-2008, 12:50 PM
can someone find a link to Dion's speech. I missed it and cannot find it on-line anywhere. from a bit I did catch, it looked like it was shot with a web cam. :(

Don't know if you found it yet or not, but here's a link to Dion's speech:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Video+Stephane+Dion+reaction/1031098/story.html?tab=VID

Escondido
04-12-2008, 01:06 PM
I completely agree with that last post by McCauley resident.

I get a strong impression that the opposition parties aren't being honest. I don't think they've "lost confidence" in Harper - they know he is capable, nut are afraid that he is on the brink of getting an elected majority government. Taking him down will force the Conservatives to rebuild, and would be good for the other parties because they can keep the Conservatives in a minority position. That's just the impression I've been getting as this thing unfolds.

I disagree I have lost all faith in Harper becuase his word is no good. He screwed me on the income trusts $35B from us seniors when he said he wouldn't. Said he wouldn't run a deficit then he goes and runs one and tries to cover it by selling our assets on fire sale. Wastes our money on a election for no reason at all. Harper will never get my vote again.

Oh and we get a 60% tax increase in Edmonton WOW becuase they don't want to contribute to our city's so now it is the Home owner who gets punished, why should we pay for it all when everyone uses these services. I am so sick of the Tory's right now I won't even be voting for them provincial next election, we need people who care and do their jobs.

A 60% tax increase in Edmonton, you say? Could you send me a link to that news item?
Even if it is so, the system in place now is such that the city has to collect taxes for its own expenses. That's not Harper's fault. It's the way it is, even if it isn't right or fair. Whether through property taxes or income taxes, somebody ends up paying anyway.

Furthermore, the city gets a lot of flack for raising taxes, but Alberta's wages have gone up in the past few years, and that means we are paying more taxes to the provincial and federal coffers since taxes are based on a percentage of income. Do I hear much complaining about that? Not really. But the city hikes taxes and watch out! Everyone's up in arms. People don't make sense sometimes.

Chump
04-12-2008, 01:14 PM
I disagree I have lost all faith in Harper becuase his word is no good. He screwed me on the income trusts $35B from us seniors when he said he wouldn't. Said he wouldn't run a deficit then he goes and runs one and tries to cover it by selling our assets on fire sale. Wastes our money on a election for no reason at all. Harper will never get my vote again.

Oh and we get a 60% tax increase in Edmonton WOW becuase they don't want to contribute to our city's so now it is the Home owner who gets punished, why should we pay for it all when everyone uses these services. I am so sick of the Tory's right now I won't even be voting for them provincial next election, we need people who care and do their jobs.

The silver lining in all of this I guess is the interest this has finally generated in the public about politics in Canada. Obviously people sat up and took notice. I'm on the oppisite side of the fence from you however. As someone who in many ways is philosophically liberal, and has voted the same in past (but not the most recent) elections, I am so furious at this back door take-over attempt that I'm finding it hard to ever consider voting for them again.

JJ young
04-12-2008, 01:31 PM
What will be used next the Bible?

"It's a deal with the DEVIL!"

If you suport a coalition or the NDP BQ Liberal "Satan has corupted your minds" they warship SATAN they burn the bible they partake in satanic rituals. you will all go to HELL!

This is not politics! Harper is god Harper is god see his angel wings .Satan is speaking throuh the the mouths of the french "it's SATAN" he is coming for all us. Vote for Harper and you will be saved.

" its a deal with the Devil"

JJ young
04-12-2008, 01:45 PM
I disagree I have lost all faith in Harper becuase his word is no good. He screwed me on the income trusts $35B from us seniors when he said he wouldn't. Said he wouldn't run a deficit then he goes and runs one and tries to cover it by selling our assets on fire sale. Wastes our money on a election for no reason at all. Harper will never get my vote again.

Oh and we get a 60% tax increase in Edmonton WOW becuase they don't want to contribute to our city's so now it is the Home owner who gets punished, why should we pay for it all when everyone uses these services. I am so sick of the Tory's right now I won't even be voting for them provincial next election, we need people who care and do their jobs.

The silver lining in all of this I guess is the interest this has finally generated in the public about politics in Canada. Obviously people sat up and took notice. I'm on the oppisite side of the fence from you however. As someone who in many ways is philosophically liberal, and has voted the same in past (but not the most recent) elections, I am so furious at this back door take-over attempt that I'm finding it hard to ever consider voting for them again.

Silver lining is we seen the real thoughts and opinions of our leaders. I always wondered why Quebec wants to seperate and now I don't blame them look how our leaders even honest ED smeared them all as the devil. Looking throught the forums the west has no respect for the french at all the name calling the smears. right now I am embarassed to be Canadian. All these partisan tory's who now want to seperate. Face it we have no unity or care for one another all people want to do is divide in self interest greed.

MrOilers
04-12-2008, 01:51 PM
I think if this (slur deleted) is happy, then all Canadians should be concerned:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Blackjebus/200px-Jacques_Parizeau1.jpg

Who Dat?
04-12-2008, 03:54 PM
Holy I think everyone here should just take a deep breath and relax a bit

PickLeZ
04-12-2008, 07:35 PM
What will be used next the Bible?

"It's a deal with the DEVIL!"

If you suport a coalition or the NDP BQ Liberal "Satan has corupted your minds" they warship SATAN they burn the bible they partake in satanic rituals. you will all go to HELL!

This is not politics! Harper is god Harper is god see his angel wings .Satan is speaking throuh the the mouths of the french "it's SATAN" he is coming for all us. Vote for Harper and you will be saved.

" its a deal with the Devil"


Laughing.

+1

RobW
04-12-2008, 07:52 PM
Chuckle. That is the best line yet. We needed a bit o' humour in this thread! Thx.
(It WAS humour, JJ young, wasn't it?)

Admin
04-12-2008, 08:55 PM
There is no need to swear in any post at any point.

Thanks.

bpeters
04-12-2008, 09:29 PM
I think if this (slur deleted) is happy, then all Canadians should be concerned:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Blackjebus/200px-Jacques_Parizeau1.jpg

Mr.Oilers, I laughed out loud when I saw this. Thanks.:smt023