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MrOilers
24-05-2017, 12:28 PM
For eight years, President Obama endlessly talked about "middle class" economics. All the while, middle-class family incomes were stagnant. Now they are on the rise. Could Trumponomics be the reason?

In April, real median household income reached $59,361, according to the latest report from Sentier Research. That's up 2% since January, and is as high as it's been since February 2002. Expressed as an index, median household income was 100.9 in April, which is the first time this index has topped 100 since December 2008.

By comparison, this index was also lower when Obama left office than when he came in — it stood at 99.2 in January 2009, and was 98.9 in January 2017. It was just 1.7% higher than when the recession ended in June 2009. Last year, incomes barely budged, Sentier data show.

Another way to look at it: median income has climbed faster in President Trump's first three months in office than it did during 7-1/2 years of Obama's economic "recovery."


http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/trump-effect-median-household-income-reaches-15-year-high/

Medwards
24-05-2017, 12:33 PM
Trump just riding on the Obama effect, taking credit for stuff he had no business taking credit for.

https://www.advisorperspectives.com/images/content_image/data/0b/0b0535023ec8eb7173b8092398702b6d.png


https://www.advisorperspectives.com/images/content_image/data/cd/cd670a44c6a649ca74e83c30ad8de8b8.png

Edmonton PRT
24-05-2017, 12:48 PM
Thanks Medwards for the informative information rather than the previous post that cherry picked information out of context.

moahunter
24-05-2017, 12:51 PM
US incomes started rising when business started to flourish in anticipation of a Republican victory, and then tax breaks. I find it funny reading all these European and Canadian elites ripping into Trump. The unemployment rate in the US is at historic lows with many states now below 4%. That's less than half of what we have under Notley.

Medwards
24-05-2017, 12:56 PM
^ holy $#%#$%$#%

KC
24-05-2017, 01:07 PM
For eight years, President Obama endlessly talked about "middle class" economics. All the while, middle-class family incomes were stagnant. Now they are on the rise. Could Trumponomics be the reason?

In April, real median household income reached $59,361, according to the latest report from Sentier Research. That's up 2% since January, and is as high as it's been since February 2002. Expressed as an index, median household income was 100.9 in April, which is the first time this index has topped 100 since December 2008.

By comparison, this index was also lower when Obama left office than when he came in — it stood at 99.2 in January 2009, and was 98.9 in January 2017. It was just 1.7% higher than when the recession ended in June 2009. Last year, incomes barely budged, Sentier data show.

Another way to look at it: median income has climbed faster in President Trump's first three months in office than it did during 7-1/2 years of Obama's economic "recovery."


http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/trump-effect-median-household-income-reaches-15-year-high/


"according to the latest report from Sentier Research."


Well - here's their chart - show me where this is correct:

"For eight years, President Obama endlessly talked about "middle class" economics. All the while, middle-class family incomes were stagnant. Now they are on the rise. "




"all the while" ????????? "Now they are on the rise." ?????????






http://www.sentierresearch.com/Charts/HouseholdIncomeIndex_UnemploymentRate_04_2017.jpg

http://www.sentierresearch.com/Charts/HouseholdIncomeIndex_UnemploymentRate_04_2017.jpg

The report:
http://www.sentierresearch.com/reports/Sentier_Household_Income_Trends_Report_April2017_0 5_23_17.pdf

KC
24-05-2017, 01:09 PM
US incomes started rising when business started to flourish in anticipation of a Republican victory, and then tax breaks. I find it funny reading all these European and Canadian elites ripping into Trump. The unemployment rate in the US is at historic lows with many states now below 4%. That's less than half of what we have under Notley.

Ok - show me.

I posted the research chart above.


And more here:

How unemployment fared under US presidents in history, in one chart
Pedro Nicolaci da Costa
May 22, 2017
http://www.businessinsider.com/unemployment-under-us-presidents-chart-and-implication-for-trump-2017-5

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5922e64d34911b19008b5525-975/history%20jobless.png
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5922e64d34911b19008b5525-975/history%20jobless.png

Edmonton PRT
24-05-2017, 01:10 PM
I thought that Trump claimed that the real unemployment rate was 42%

http://fortune.com/2017/03/10/donald-trump-jobs-report-phony-fake/

moa, do you mean to say that Trump cut unemployment from 42% to less than 4% in 4 months! WOW! Fantastic! UNBELIEVABLE!

MrOilers
01-06-2017, 03:55 PM
GDPNow estimate rises to 4.0% from 3.8% for 2Q

http://news.forexlive.com/!/the-atlanta-fed-gdpnow-estimate-rises-to-40-from-38-for-2q-20170601


Wow - a 4.0% increase in GDP for second quarter 2017 is really good. Just for reference, the US GDP growth did not surpass 3.0% for any quarter during Obama's entire 8 years.

Edmonton PRT
01-06-2017, 04:03 PM
While in Canada with the guy with better hair...

Canadian GDP soars 3.7 per cent in first quarter, slightly below analyst expectations
http://business.financialpost.com/ne...-first-quarter (http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/canadian-gdp-soars-3-7-per-cent-in-first-quarter)

Hilman
01-06-2017, 04:07 PM
GDPNow estimate rises to 4.0% from 3.8% for 2Q

http://news.forexlive.com/!/the-atlanta-fed-gdpnow-estimate-rises-to-40-from-38-for-2q-20170601


Wow - a 4.0% increase in GDP for second quarter 2017 is really good. Just for reference, the US GDP growth did not surpass 3.0% for any quarter during Obama's entire 8 years.


Job creation surged in May thanks to a jump in construction positions and a boom in professional and business services, according to a report Thursday from ADP and Moody's Analytics.Private payrolls increased by 253,000, well ahead of expectations. Economists surveyed by Reuters expected the report to show that private payrolls grew by 185,000 in May from 174,000 in April.
The growth "is three times the rate of the growth in the underlying labor force," Mark Zandi, the chief economist at Moody's Analytics, told CNBC. "So that means the unemployment rate, which is 4.4 percent, is quickly headed to 4 percent. This labor market is rip-roaring and getting really tight."

Services broadly led the way with 205,000 new jobs, with professional and business services contributing 88,000 — its best month in about three years — and education and health services adding 54,000.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/01/adp-private-sector-payrolls-may-2017.html

H.L.
01-06-2017, 04:30 PM
GDPNow estimate rises to 4.0% from 3.8% for 2Q

http://news.forexlive.com/!/the-atlanta-fed-gdpnow-estimate-rises-to-40-from-38-for-2q-20170601


Wow - a 4.0% increase in GDP for second quarter 2017 is really good. Just for reference, the US GDP growth did not surpass 3.0% for any quarter during Obama's entire 8 years.

That is good news!

Hilman
01-06-2017, 04:55 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/870297052776992768/NJ1O462A?format=jpg&name=600x314


Maybe it's time to look in the mirror???

Medwards
01-06-2017, 06:16 PM
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/3770722/thumbs/o-DONALD-TRUMP-SOUNDBITE-GENERATOR-HUFFINGTON-POST-900.jpg?7

H.L.
01-06-2017, 06:19 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/870297052776992768/NJ1O462A?format=jpg&name=600x314


Maybe it's time to look in the mirror???


She would never look in that mirror.

Dave
01-06-2017, 06:35 PM
I thought that Trump claimed that the real unemployment rate was 42%

http://fortune.com/2017/03/10/donald-trump-jobs-report-phony-fake/

moa, do you mean to say that Trump cut unemployment from 42% to less than 4% in 4 months! WOW! Fantastic! UNBELIEVABLE!

UNBELIEVABLE - you mean like fake news? I realize Trump wants to con everyone, but either his acolytes here are very gullible or they think the rest of us are.

Dave
01-06-2017, 06:47 PM
GDPNow estimate rises to 4.0% from 3.8% for 2Q

http://news.forexlive.com/!/the-atlanta-fed-gdpnow-estimate-rises-to-40-from-38-for-2q-20170601

Wow - a 4.0% increase in GDP for second quarter 2017 is really good. Just for reference, the US GDP growth did not surpass 3.0% for any quarter during Obama's entire 8 years.

That is good news!

Wow that sort of seems like really great news, but wait there are twelve months in the year. A quarter of that is three months. The second quarter therefore ends at the end of the sixth month of the year, which is not until June 30, 2017. Therefore, the figure you just gave actually hasn't happened yet. We are at the end of May, not the end of June - hope nothing bad or unexpected happens in June.

Maybe you can predict the future and know that June's growth is going to be really TERRIFIC, but perhaps we should probably wait until the end of June to actually see what really happens. Of course, even if it is around 4%, that would just make up for their poor first quarter so the average growth for the first six months would still be below 3%.

kkozoriz
01-06-2017, 07:08 PM
GDPNow estimate rises to 4.0% from 3.8% for 2Q

http://news.forexlive.com/!/the-atlanta-fed-gdpnow-estimate-rises-to-40-from-38-for-2q-20170601

Wow - a 4.0% increase in GDP for second quarter 2017 is really good. Just for reference, the US GDP growth did not surpass 3.0% for any quarter during Obama's entire 8 years.

That is good news!

Wow that sort of seems like really great news, but wait there are twelve months in the year. A quarter of that is three months. The second quarter therefore ends at the end of the sixth month of the year, which is not until June 30, 2017. Therefore, the figure you just gave actually hasn't happened yet. We are at the end of May, not the end of June - hope nothing bad or unexpected happens in June.

Maybe you can predict the future and know that June's growth is going to be really TERRIFIC, but perhaps we should probably wait until the end of June to actually see what really happens. Of course, even if it is around 4%, that would just make up for their poor first quarter so the average growth for the first six months would still be below 3%.

Actually, the growth results are based on the fiscal year, not calendar year.



CANADA'S FISCAL YEAR
The fiscal year of the Canadian federal government and the country's provincial and territory governments is April 1 to March 31, just like most other British commonwealths (and Britain itself). This is different than the tax year for Canadian citizens, however, which is the standard January 1 to December 31 calendar year. So if you're paying personal income taxes in Canada, you'll follow the calendar year.

https://www.thoughtco.com/canadian-fiscal-year-510404

Dave
01-06-2017, 07:33 PM
GDPNow estimate rises to 4.0% from 3.8% for 2Q

http://news.forexlive.com/!/the-atlanta-fed-gdpnow-estimate-rises-to-40-from-38-for-2q-20170601

Wow - a 4.0% increase in GDP for second quarter 2017 is really good. Just for reference, the US GDP growth did not surpass 3.0% for any quarter during Obama's entire 8 years.

That is good news!

Wow that sort of seems like really great news, but wait there are twelve months in the year. A quarter of that is three months. The second quarter therefore ends at the end of the sixth month of the year, which is not until June 30, 2017. Therefore, the figure you just gave actually hasn't happened yet. We are at the end of May, not the end of June - hope nothing bad or unexpected happens in June.

Maybe you can predict the future and know that June's growth is going to be really TERRIFIC, but perhaps we should probably wait until the end of June to actually see what really happens. Of course, even if it is around 4%, that would just make up for their poor first quarter so the average growth for the first six months would still be below 3%.

Actually, the growth results are based on the fiscal year, not calendar year.



CANADA'S FISCAL YEAR
The fiscal year of the Canadian federal government and the country's provincial and territory governments is April 1 to March 31, just like most other British commonwealths (and Britain itself). This is different than the tax year for Canadian citizens, however, which is the standard January 1 to December 31 calendar year. So if you're paying personal income taxes in Canada, you'll follow the calendar year.

https://www.thoughtco.com/canadian-fiscal-year-510404



Ok. It is a US Fed figure, so it may refer to a different period than say when a Canadian bank economist is talking about quarters, as the Canadian banks are not government agencies. It just had 2017: Q2 in the article, but it doesn't refer to which months anywhere so that is why I was thinking it was calendar year.

However, I also noticed that it released by the Atlanta Fed so I think this forecast would be for the part of the US this Fed covers and not the whole country.

In particular, I noticed the last line of the article which said:

The next estimate will be released on Friday, June 2nd. ON that day the NY Fed will release their estimate for GDP growth as well. Their most recent estimate is for a more modest 2.2% gain.

So these must not be national figures, apparently growth in the New York area is not a rosy as the Atlanta area.

MrOilers
02-06-2017, 09:56 AM
US unemployment hits a 16-year low in May 2017:

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/870619274334932993

moahunter
21-06-2017, 10:45 AM
Once you get past the horror of the chattering classes / liberal media, and look at what's actually happening - its a very different story. Huge win for the republicans in Georgia:


If anything, this race proves Republicans have no reason to be defensive as a result of Obamacare’s demise. It shows Republicans have nothing to hide from in the age of Trump. And it signifies that nothing about the current faux-scandal-ridden environment has produced a downdraft for Republicans.

Democrats thought they were going to walk away from Tuesday’s race victorious, but they have yet to produce a viable person-to-person message for their candidates to work with. They still don’t have an economic message for voters who want something more than the liberal call for more welfare. And they have no legitimate response to the national call for a shift away from the status quo.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/ed-rogers-sorry-trump-haters-the-gop-victory-in-georgia-is-huge-and-heres-why/wcm/e7307fb4-ca2f-46e0-8046-d40302016a65

Marcel Petrin
21-06-2017, 10:57 AM
Thank you for that wonderful op-ed from a paid Republican/Saudi/Raytheon shill. Very informative.

https://www.mediamatters.org/people/ed-rogers

champking
21-06-2017, 03:27 PM
No doubt Trump's policy's of ridding many of the rules and regulations , dropping the tax rate will attract business and investment . It was primary reason I closed shop . Just waiting for the 15% tax rate and my money's all going Trump land

H.L.
21-06-2017, 03:31 PM
Once you get past the horror of the chattering classes / liberal media, and look at what's actually happening - its a very different story. Huge win for the republicans in Georgia:


If anything, this race proves Republicans have no reason to be defensive as a result of Obamacare’s demise. It shows Republicans have nothing to hide from in the age of Trump. And it signifies that nothing about the current faux-scandal-ridden environment has produced a downdraft for Republicans.

Democrats thought they were going to walk away from Tuesday’s race victorious, but they have yet to produce a viable person-to-person message for their candidates to work with. They still don’t have an economic message for voters who want something more than the liberal call for more welfare. And they have no legitimate response to the national call for a shift away from the status quo.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/ed-rogers-sorry-trump-haters-the-gop-victory-in-georgia-is-huge-and-heres-why/wcm/e7307fb4-ca2f-46e0-8046-d40302016a65

Thanks for the link! :)

KC
26-06-2017, 02:43 PM
Why Americans Feel So Good About a Mediocre Economy - Bloomberg

There's a divergence between "soft" measures of sentiment and "hard" data. Partisan leanings offer an explanation.
By Noah Smith June 26, 2017

"One big source of systematic error is partisanship. It’s well known that the party of the president has a dramatic effect on people’s views of the economy. Before the election in November, Democrats held a much more favorable view of the economy than did Republicans; after Trump won, that gap promptly flipped. Republicans now claim to be extremely confident about the economy, while Democrats report pessimism."


https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-26/why-americans-feel-so-good-about-a-mediocre-economy

Dave
26-06-2017, 03:27 PM
Why Americans Feel So Good About a Mediocre Economy - Bloomberg

There's a divergence between "soft" measures of sentiment and "hard" data. Partisan leanings offer an explanation.
By Noah Smith June 26, 2017

"One big source of systematic error is partisanship. It’s well known that the party of the president has a dramatic effect on people’s views of the economy. Before the election in November, Democrats held a much more favorable view of the economy than did Republicans; after Trump won, that gap promptly flipped. Republicans now claim to be extremely confident about the economy, while Democrats report pessimism."


https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-26/why-americans-feel-so-good-about-a-mediocre-economy

I suppose partisanship does play a role, but what passes for analysis here is not that vigorous these days. There is a fairly even split between Democrats and Republicans in the US, so any change in power should not increase or decrease overall confidence, it should just change who is confident vs. who is not.

I believe unemployment rates, hours worked, etc... have more of an effect on overall confidence than partisanship. While the US economy is not moving ahead quickly, unemployment is continuing to go down. Given that the unemployment rate is more of a lagging indicator than a leading one, I think consumer confidence is more of a predictor of the present than the future. In other words, not much of a predictor at all.

It could be that the economic recovery is now spreading to parts of the country that were lagging (such as mid west and rural US - more Republican areas) from the big cities. A more even economic recovery might be more robust and therefore a good thing. However, if consumer confidence is now falling in the more Democrat bigger cities that might point to some weakness and possibly some future problems.

The last recession started under the Republicans. The recovery started and continued under Obama. I would argue that to this point, this is just a continuation of that recovery, as the new administration has not implemented any major tax or budget changes yet.

MrOilers
25-07-2017, 10:13 AM
S&P 500 hits record high:

https://twitter.com/DRUDGE_REPORT/status/889843349053612032

moahunter
25-07-2017, 10:20 AM
^I guess its all because of Obama - you know, all the consumption he is doing sailing round on massive billionaire yachts, that type of thing...

Medwards
25-07-2017, 10:22 AM
^ sounds like you're on to something houston

MrOilers
25-07-2017, 10:31 AM
^I guess its all because of Obama - you know, all the consumption he is doing sailing round on massive billionaire yachts, that type of thing...

I know, right? Why do people criticize the new president for golfing and tweeting all the time when the last guy already fixed everything?

kkozoriz
25-07-2017, 11:08 AM
I am your voice I alone can fix it. I will restore law and order.

Donald Trump, Republican National Convention


Well Donald, get to it. Fix that healthcare that you say should cost $12 a year. Defeat ISIS within your first 90 days with your super secret plan that you can't tell anyone about but it's the best. Solve the problems of Israel and Palestine which you have said is not nearly as difficult as people say.

If he alone can do it, then he cannot cast the blame on anyone else. It's all on him. Let's see how he's done, shall we?

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/roundup_v3.png?w=2560

https://qz.com/971930/trumps-100-days-a-scorecard-trump-made-28-promises-in-a-contract-with-the-american-people/

Hilman
25-07-2017, 11:29 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFl1qh8UQAAxKNw.jpg
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/889871789198802944

That huge dip is coincidentally when Obama was in office ;)

Highlander II
25-07-2017, 11:43 AM
You mean Bush.

Pretty much hit bottom before Obama was actually president.

kkozoriz
25-07-2017, 11:57 AM
Obama was sworn in Jan. 20, 2009. So pretty much all the improvement shown happened during his administration.

champking
25-07-2017, 12:15 PM
Trump hasn't even made his tax cuts yet. .....U.S is headed for a mega boom ! Jobs for all !

KC
25-07-2017, 12:39 PM
You mean Bush.

Pretty much hit bottom before Obama was actually president.

By some measures I wouldn't be surprised if most of the jobs and factories left the US for China under Bush Jr.


What people don't get is that "us richer" may not mean "you richer". You may become poorer whole others become much richer. The loosers in such 'progressive changes' get a hard lessen in society's lack of compassion when those destined to win by enriching foreigners and other countries then pull the rug out from under their own citizens in the name of "win-win" globalization.





US Manufacturing Job Losses Show How Much Richer Chinese Imports Have Made Us




This paper links the sharp drop in US manufacturing employment after 2000 to a change in US trade policy that eliminated potential tariff increases on Chinese imports. Industries more exposed to the change experience greater employment loss, increased imports from China, and higher entry by US importers and foreign-owned Chinese exporters. At the plant level, shifts toward less labor-intensive production and exposure to the policy via input-output linkages also contribute to the decline in employment. Results are robust to other potential explanations of employment loss, and there is no similar reaction in the European Union, where policy did not change.



We can see that post-2000 change there. That's a secular, structural, change, it's not, as before, associated particularly with a recession or other economic bad times. And it doesn't stop when the good times return. And as the paper points out that drop in manufacturing employment is due to more open trade with China, it's Chinese imports causing that.
...

But they didn't stay unemployed - they're now working in the service sector ...

The result of this is that now we can consume those Chinese imports plus the services being made by those ex-manufacturing workers. We're richer, we are able to consume more.
...


https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/07/03/us-manufacturing-job-losses-show-how-much-richer-chinese-imports-have-made-us/#4f49760a6912






Bolding was mine

Brexit, Trump ... surprise? Not to those sidelined and permanently damAged by trade policy etc.

Marcel Petrin
25-07-2017, 12:54 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFl1qh8UQAAxKNw.jpg
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/889871789198802944

That huge dip is coincidentally when Obama was in office ;)

Your statement is factually untrue, and you should be ashamed of yourself for being incredibly intellectually dishonest. Obama was not inaugurated until late January 2009, and it takes months for policy to be made, laws to be passed, and so on. That "huge dip" is entirely at George W. Bush's feet.

Hilman
25-07-2017, 01:47 PM
You got me, only 7 of the 8 year dip was Obama lol. Odd that Trump can alter change in the labor market without months and months of policies to be made, laws to be passed and so on.....

KC
25-07-2017, 01:49 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFl1qh8UQAAxKNw.jpg
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/889871789198802944

That huge dip is coincidentally when Obama was in office ;)

Your statement is factually untrue, and you should be ashamed of yourself for being incredibly intellectually dishonest. Obama was not inaugurated until late January 2009, and it takes months for policy to be made, laws to be passed, and so on. That "huge dip" is entirely at George W. Bush's feet.

Well, investors and so to a degree markets try to be forward looking - until they panic that is. So I'd say it's often fair to go back to the time of the election and try to assess election impact on markets. Most times I'd say it's a wasted effort on a largely inconsequential event. Anyway, that's stock markets.

Labour markets though are more likely to deal with the here and now or lagging factors. In a growth period, employees are kept but at some point the direction changes and predictions flip from 'temporary bump' to 'the boss may fire me if I don't fire people'. So after orders start to slow, near certain says prospects fail to materialize, inventory builds, etc, then the layoffs occur. Then there's the lag in stats and definitions that come into play.

Highlander II
25-07-2017, 02:03 PM
You got me, only 7 of the 8 year dip was Obama lol. Odd that Trump can alter change in the labor market without months and months of policies to be made, laws to be passed and so on.....

Ah, so you don't understand the graph. That explains it.

I'll explain.

The graph does not show relative losses or gains per year, it shows income relative to a baseline.
So what you see is not continued, though shrinking, losses for almost all of Obama's tenure, it shows a massive drop in bush's last couple years that stabilized at the same time that Obama became president, two-3 years with little change and then 5 years of constant gains that have continued with no change under Trump.

KC
25-07-2017, 02:08 PM
You got me, only 7 of the 8 year dip was Obama lol. Odd that Trump can alter change in the labor market without months and months of policies to be made, laws to be passed and so on.....

Bankruptcies tumbled under Obama after a while. They see to be rising under Trump. "Because of what" is another question.

Those that can't think very well, just cherry pick and attribute anything they don't like to the president or party they don't like.
However... when, where and why should a new President or political party be blamed on bad numbers, or credited with good numbers under their term is a matter best left for those wiling and able to think with their own brains.





Great Debt Unwind: Consumer Bankruptcies Jump, First since 2010. Commercial Bankruptcies Spike
by Wolf Richter • Apr 8, 2017

The Fed’s monetary policies have purposefully encouraged businesses and consumers to borrow. But debt doesn’t just go away. It accumulates. By now, an increasing number of businesses and consumers are suffocating under this debt overhang in an economy that never developed the “escape velocity” needed – and hyped by Wall Street for years – to outgrow this debt. Rising bankruptcies are a turning point in the “credit cycle.” They’re not exactly a positive mile-marker for the economy.

The irony is thick: In all major sentiment surveys, economic confidence has soared since November: consumers, owners of small businesses, and corporate executives are riding high on their own ebullience. But the economic reality is tough for businesses and consumers struggling under the hangover from eight years of ultra-low interest rates.

I hope the model is wrong. Read… Atlanta Fed GDPNow Forecast Spirals Toward Zero "

http://wolfstreet.com/2017/04/08/commercial-bankruptcies-rise-consumer-bankruptcies-up/


http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user230519/imageroot/2017/04/09/2017.04.09%20-%20Bankrupt%202.JPG






Consumers and Businesses Buckle under their Debts
by Wolf Richter • Jul 6, 2017

Commercial Chapter 11 bankruptcies – an effort to restructure the business, rather than liquidating it – jumped 16% year-over-year in June to 581 filings across the US. Total commercial bankruptcies of all types, by large corporations to tiny sole proprietorships, rose 2% year-over-year to 3,385 filings, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute. This was up 39% from June 2015 and up 18% from June 2014.

Commercial bankruptcies topped out at 9,004 in March 2010. By that time, credit conditions had been easing for a year, and liquidity was chasing yield. Not much later, even zombie companies – if they were large enough – were able to refinance their debts and borrow more to fund their operations and keep creditors happy. Bankruptcies fell sharply: In September 2015, they bottomed out at 2,217 filings....

The chart shows the trend since 2013: Sharp year-over-year decreases in bankruptcies as consumers recovered from the Financial Crisis. The decreases gradually tapered off, as would be expected – bankruptcies are not going to fall to zero. But now a new phase has commenced: year-over-year increases in bankruptcies.

Clearly, consumers aren’t yet all of them together collapsing under their debts in one fell-swoop, but the “early red flag” is being confirmed as more and more consumers are buckling....

http://wolfstreet.com/2017/07/06/consumer-commercial-bankruptcies-credit-cycle/

Marcel Petrin
25-07-2017, 02:23 PM
You got me, only 7 of the 8 year dip was Obama lol. Odd that Trump can alter change in the labor market without months and months of policies to be made, laws to be passed and so on.....

The labor market, in terms of job creation, has slowed down since Trump was elected in November. Not to a significant degree, but it can be quantified. It has not accelerated, as you again falsely claim: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0000000001?output_view=net_1mth

Why do you find numbers so difficult to relay honestly?

Edmonton PRT
25-07-2017, 02:41 PM
Don't worry Marcel, facts are not part of Hilman's lexicon.

seamusmcduffs
25-07-2017, 04:30 PM
You got me, only 7 of the 8 year dip was Obama lol. Odd that Trump can alter change in the labor market without months and months of policies to be made, laws to be passed and so on.....

Ah, so you don't understand the graph. That explains it.

I'll explain.

The graph does not show relative losses or gains per year, it shows income relative to a baseline.
So what you see is not continued, though shrinking, losses for almost all of Obama's tenure, it shows a massive drop in bush's last couple years that stabilized at the same time that Obama became president, two-3 years with little change and then 5 years of constant gains that have continued with no change under Trump.


Yup, he saw that the Obamas presidency on the graph was below an arbitrary line, and decided that that must mean anything below that line is negative.

MrOilers
26-07-2017, 11:31 AM
Dow hit another record high today: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/26/us-stocks-boeing-earnings-fed.html

Medwards
26-07-2017, 11:49 AM
Which means absolutely zilch.

kkozoriz
26-07-2017, 02:07 PM
Let's put it in perspective.



What Really Happened to the Stock Market During the Obama Years

Since Obama's first inauguration on Jan. 20, 2009, U.S. equities have surged 12% a year, not counting dividends, in what turned out to be the second-longest bull market in history.


To put that in perspective, those price gains were nearly four percentage points per year more than domestic equities have averaged since the end of World War II. They also compare favorably to the 4.6% annual losses suffered by the S&P 500 index of U.S. stocks under the eight years of Obama's predecessor, President George W. Bush.

Here's one other way to think about it: If during the upcoming administration of President-elect Donald Trump, the stock market were to replicate the success it enjoyed under Obama, rising by a factor of 2.5, then the Dow Jones industrial average -- which currently stands at just under the 20,000 level -- would have to climb all the way up to 50,000.

http://time.com/money/4636241/stock-market-investments-presidents-obama/

H.L.
26-07-2017, 02:19 PM
Dow hit another record high today: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/26/us-stocks-boeing-earnings-fed.html

Yes, I saw that!!

Swillv8
26-07-2017, 02:30 PM
Two massive announcements today on the job front. Apple going to start manufacturing in the USA. Also wal mart going to start buying/ manufacturing in USA. 10000job projection from apple 1.5 million from wal mart.. I don't come on here to listen to most of the irrational bickering. I feel I'm on the same wavelength of the average American who does little engagement with the loud left. And quick question to the left of trumpers: at what point can

food stamp dependence decrease?
Job participation increase?
home ownership increase?
House values increase?
Manufacturing jobs increase?
stock markets increase?
business confidence increase?

Im sure this list could be expanded quickly. But my question to the never trumps out there is simple. At what point would some numbers have to increase for y'all to eat your hat? I want to here some hard answers not deflection. Add to my list I don't mind. Love or hate the guy is fine but I find it straining that some will never give credit when due yet we live in an inclusive tolerant society?

Medwards
26-07-2017, 02:48 PM
I'll start giving Trump credit if these trends continue for sure over the next 6 months. Right now, its pre-mature to give him credit for a lot of these things as these are mostly the results of work of the previous administration.

H.L.
26-07-2017, 03:03 PM
Two massive announcements today on the job front. Apple going to start manufacturing in the USA. Also wal mart going to start buying/ manufacturing in USA. 10000job projection from apple 1.5 million from wal mart.. I don't come on here to listen to most of the irrational bickering. I feel I'm on the same wavelength of the average American who does little engagement with the loud left. And quick question to the left of trumpers: at what point can

food stamp dependence decrease?
Job participation increase?
home ownership increase?
House values increase?
Manufacturing jobs increase?
stock markets increase?
business confidence increase?

Im sure this list could be expanded quickly. But my question to the never trumps out there is simple. At what point would some numbers have to increase for y'all to eat your hat? I want to here some hard answers not deflection. Add to my list I don't mind. Love or hate the guy is fine but I find it straining that some will never give credit when due yet we live in an inclusive tolerant society?


Who cares about them? Kudos to the President..

Edmonton PRT
26-07-2017, 03:33 PM
I'll start giving Trump credit if these trends continue for sure over the next 6 months. Right now, its pre-mature to give him credit for a lot of these things as these are mostly the results of work of the previous administration.

If he doesn't quit first and move in with roommate, Vladimir...

Highlander II
26-07-2017, 03:58 PM
Two massive announcements today on the job front. Apple going to start manufacturing in the USA. Also wal mart going to start buying/ manufacturing in USA. 10000job projection from apple 1.5 million from wal mart.. I don't come on here to listen to most of the irrational bickering. I feel I'm on the same wavelength of the average American who does little engagement with the loud left. And quick question to the left of trumpers: at what point can

food stamp dependence decrease?
Job participation increase?
home ownership increase?
House values increase?
Manufacturing jobs increase?
stock markets increase?
business confidence increase?

Im sure this list could be expanded quickly. But my question to the never trumps out there is simple. At what point would some numbers have to increase for y'all to eat your hat? I want to here some hard answers not deflection. Add to my list I don't mind. Love or hate the guy is fine but I find it straining that some will never give credit when due yet we live in an inclusive tolerant society?

So a search for apple manufacturing news gets me a story about apple planning a 2,000 job plant in Arizona that's been in planning since 2009.

"Walmart manufacturing news" gets me a story about walmart making some recommendations based on their 2013 US manufacturing program, and some conjecture about the possible benefits nation wide, IF all their recommendation were enacted and IF they had the results that their optimistic model predicts.

noodle
26-07-2017, 04:06 PM
Anyone who takes Cheeto Mussolini's tweets about Apple at face value is a maroon, especially without corroboration or comment from Apple themselves.

GenWhy?
26-07-2017, 04:23 PM
Heard Apple is moving offices to downtown Vancouver from the US. Where in the US, not sure.

noodle
26-07-2017, 04:30 PM
Heard Apple is moving offices to downtown Vancouver from the US. Where in the US, not sure.

Why would they do that? They just opened up a 12,000 person, 2,800,000 square foot office to centralize their workforce in Cupertino.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Building_and_ship_comparison_to_the_Pentagon2.svg/600px-Building_and_ship_comparison_to_the_Pentagon2.svg. png

Green circle is Apple Park. The pentagon is The Pentagon.

Edmonton PRT
26-07-2017, 04:37 PM
Or that Cheeto Il Duce saved all those Carrier jobs and stopped that Ford plant from moving to Mexico...

600 layoffs coming to Carrier plant Trump claimed to save last year
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/600-layoffs-coming-to-carrier-plant-trump-claimed-to-save-last-year/article/2626836After Trump pressured Ford out of moving factory to Mexico, company decides to build the new Focus in China
Ford Motors announced it would manufacture the new Focus in China, rather than Mexico as previously planned
http://www.salon.com/2017/06/20/after-trump-pressured-ford-out-of-moving-factory-to-mexico-company-decides-to-build-the-new-focus-in-china/

Dateline April 12th, 1945
Bunker under Berlin

Are you getting tired of winning?

Signed A.Hitler

Hilman
01-08-2017, 04:45 PM
Trump's 'Magic Wand': MacDonald Says Dow Up 20% Since Dire Election Day Predictions
Elizabeth MacDonald said on "Risk & Reward" that the Dow Jones Industrial Average is up 20 percent since Election Day.

Tuesday marked its 48th record close since last November.

In addition, about 863,000 jobs have been created in that time.

MacDonald looked back on several dire warnings from the media after Trump was announced the winner of the 2016 election.

"Markets around the world are in turmoil at this hour," CNN's Alisyn Camerota said on November 7.

Over on MSNBC, Ali Velshi reported on global markets "sinking" with the news of Hillary Clinton's defeat.

Many others offered a dire forecast for the American economy as it entered the Trump years.

MacDonald played a clip of President Barack Obama asking where Trump's "magic wand" was that will bring back jobs to America.

"How exactly are you going to do that?" Obama asked an audience in 2016. "He just says it... What magic wand do you have?"
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/08/01/stock-market-record-close-donald-trump-magic-wand-obama-cnn-economy

Hilman
04-08-2017, 07:27 AM
Toyota to build $1.6 billion U.S. plant with rival Mazda: source
(http://www.reuters.com/journalists/joseph-white)
WASHINGTON/DETROIT (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=7203.T)) and rival Mazda Motor Corp are expected to announce plans on Friday to build a $1.6 billion U.S assembly plant as part of a new joint venture, a person briefed on the matter said.
The plant will be capable of producing 300,000 vehicles a year, with production divided between the two automakers, and will employ about 4,000 people when it opens in 2021, the person said.
A new auto plant would be a major boost to U.S. President Donald Trump, who campaigned on promises to increase manufacturing and expand employment for American autoworkers.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-mazda-idUSKBN1AJ2O4?il=0

H.L.
04-08-2017, 07:44 AM
Toyota to build $1.6 billion U.S. plant with rival Mazda: source
(http://www.reuters.com/journalists/joseph-white)
WASHINGTON/DETROIT (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=7203.T)) and rival Mazda Motor Corp are expected to announce plans on Friday to build a $1.6 billion U.S assembly plant as part of a new joint venture, a person briefed on the matter said.
The plant will be capable of producing 300,000 vehicles a year, with production divided between the two automakers, and will employ about 4,000 people when it opens in 2021, the person said.
A new auto plant would be a major boost to U.S. President Donald Trump, who campaigned on promises to increase manufacturing and expand employment for American autoworkers.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-mazda-idUSKBN1AJ2O4?il=0

That's good for the US.

Edmonton PRT
04-08-2017, 09:11 AM
Good to hear that Toyota/Mazda are opening a plant in the US. The bidding war will be intense.

If the trend continues, the taxpayer will pay for the multinational corporation welfare.

So much for "Making America Great Again"
More like, take money from the 99% and give it to the 1%

On a previous announcement, the bidding war cost $3 billion in subsidies


Foxconn gets $3 billion in tax subsidies to build plant in WisconsinBy George Marlowe 31 July 2017
The Taiwanese electronics supplier Foxconn—known for its brutal exploitation of workers in sweatshop factories in China and internationally—recently announced it would open a plant in the economically depressed area of southeast Wisconsin. Republican Governor Scott Walker and the Trump administration worked out the deal with Foxconn in exchange for massive tax subsidies.
Foxconn, the iPhone manufacturer and world’s largest consumer electronics makers, stands to receive nearly $200 million a year in state tax incentives over 15 years. While numerous states, including Michigan, were in a bidding war to get Foxconn to build a factory in their states, Wisconsin offered the most lucrative package that would effectively siphon off public funds to allow the company to exploit a low-wage workforce.


It is telling that the corporations and the government, with the full backing of the unions, have reduced the wages of American workers to such a low level that cheap labor specialists like Foxconn are now investing in America’s “Rust Belt” states.


In total, Foxconn will receive nearly $3 billion in tax subsidies with $150 million in sales tax exemption. The state of Wisconsin is only expected to receive about $116 million in tax revenue in return annually, effectively handing the multinational corporation over $74 million a year. These figures exclude the details of the local funding for infrastructure spending for roads and sewers that have yet to be released.


According to Walker, the deal worked out with Foxconn comes with lofty promises that 3,000 jobs will be created by 2020. Wisconsin officials and the Trump administration also boasted last week that Foxconn could hire as many 13,000 at the plant and create more than 20,000 jobs indirectly.


Governor Walker was elected in 2010 on the promise that he would create more than 250,000 jobs in the state through the slashing of corporate taxes, deregulation and the gutting of social programs. In 2011, these attacks sparked a mass movement against Walker, which was sabotaged by the unions, which diverted opposition behind a fruitless campaign to recall Walker and elect a Democratic governor.


While Foxconn claims its 3,000 workers will have all-in pay of $53,000 a year—which includes health care and other benefits—that is only 50 cents an hour higher than the average wage in Wisconsin. Incredibly, the state of Wisconsin will pay Foxconn $66,000 per employee based on tax breaks and other incentives.

The grand promises of Walker, Trump and Foxconn of job creation and economic growth are belied by the reality of state-funded deals made with such corporations. In 2013, Foxconn promised to build a $30 million factory in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, which would employ over 500 workers. In fact, no such plant was built nor a single job created. Similar deals were made by Foxconn in other countries, such as Brazil and Vietnam.


Similarly, General Motors once promised to build its Saturn plant in return for state funding. It played 24 states against each other for public money. The bidding war resulted in the state of Tennessee forking over $240 million to the corporation, or paying nearly $26,000 for each job created. Other corporations, including Mercedes Benz, have also looted public funds to build factories in other states.

Hilman
04-08-2017, 09:17 AM
Things are doing well there, DOW at an all time high, they just announced that the economy added 209,000 jobs in July and has unemployment rate down to 4.3%. Thanks Obama ;)

Edmonton PRT
04-08-2017, 09:18 AM
Obama added sometimes 300,000 jobs in a month.

The US job reports show that Trump is not performing any better than Obama in previous years.

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i7NR.0oa0Gxg/v2/1000x-1.png

Hilman
04-08-2017, 09:25 AM
The U.S. economy beat expectations by adding 209,000 jobs in July, as robust hiring continued to encourage new job seekers.

The labor market has gained steam over the last two months. June brought 231,000 new jobs, up from an initial count of 222,000, and July job growth easily kept pace above the first-half monthly average of 180,000 jobs. Hiring in the last month was strong enough to absorb new entrants into the workforce. The labor force participation rate ticked higher to 62.9% from 62.8%, but the unemployment rate fell to 4.3% from 4.4%, tying a 16-year low.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/08/04/us-economy-adds-more-jobs-in-july-than-expected.html

noodle
04-08-2017, 09:30 AM
The unemployment rate was lower in every month from June 2000 to March 2001. And in four months in 2005 and 2006, the unemployment rate was also 4.4 percent.
It’s important to note, however, that unemployment has been steadily declining since the end of the recession in 2009. So neither Mr. Trump nor any other president takes all the credit.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/01/us/politics/fact-check-trump-claims-low-unemployment-booming-economy.html

MrOilers
04-08-2017, 09:31 AM
Record 153,513,000 Employed: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/record-153513000-employed-july-629-labor-force-participation

US trade deficit is narrowing: http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/us-trade-deficit-narrowed-436-billion-june-49031342

US jobless rate matched a 16-year low, workers are seeing monthly wages grow: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-04/payroll-gain-of-209-000-wage-pickup-show-u-s-labor-strength

Toyota & Mazda building new plant in the USA creating 4,000 new jobs: https://twitter.com/AP/status/893394077772898304



Lots of positive financial news for the USA this week.

noodle
04-08-2017, 09:41 AM
You're forgetting about the best financial news of the week.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/this-trump-real-estate-deal-looks-awfully-like-criminal-tax-fraud/2017/08/03/653055fe-786e-11e7-8839-ec48ec4cae25_story.html?utm_term=.388bf9cfea0b


It’s possible the president filed the right paperwork. But without a full release of his tax returns, the available evidence suggests he hasn’t. According to New York City property records, Trump paid (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3873461-2016042800883001-amp-Page-1-12.html#document/p10/a359594) $13,000 in state and local transfer taxes for these two sales. That is the correct amount for a sale between strangers. But if he paid state and local transfer taxes, that means he didn’t treat the transfers as gifts. And on the real estate forms filed (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3873461-2016042800883001-amp-Page-1-12.html#document/p10/a359594) in New York, Trump didn’t check any of the boxes indicating that these were sales between relatives or sales of less than the entire property. It would seem, then, that he treated the transactions as if they were sales for fair market value to a stranger.

Since Trump did not cast the transactions as gifts for state and local tax purposes, it is almost certain that he did not do so for federal gift tax purposes, either. In our combined 40 years of experience as tax lawyers, we are unaware of a situation in which a taxpayer would report a transaction as a fair market value between strangers on the state level (and thus incur real estate taxes) but treat it as a gift at the federal level (and thus incur an additional tax). It’s fair to infer that Trump didn’t follow the rules.


I mean, what's a little fraud & tax evasion? Just dad trying to help his son out & attempting to weasel out of taxes. No big deal, no sir.


Willful failure to file a tax return, including a gift tax return, is a misdemeanor (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7203) , punishable by a $25,000 fine, imprisonment of up to one year or both. Fraudulent failure to file — meaning an overt act of evasion — may elevate willful failure to a felony (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7201). That carries a fine of up to $100,000, imprisonment of up to five years or both, along with the costs of prosecution. According to internal guidance provided (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/tax_crimes_handbook.pdf) by the IRS to its agents, factors indicating potential fraud include repeated contacts by the IRS, failure to cooperate with IRS agents or employees, knowledge of the filing requirements, offering implausible or inconsistent explanations, substantial tax liability, and refusal or inability to explain failure to file.

Oh. Guess it is a big deal.

Hilman
04-08-2017, 09:41 AM
Investing.com -- A new study by economists from Harvard and Princeton indicates that 94% of the 10 million new jobs created during the Obama era were temporary positions.

The study shows that the jobs were temporary, contract positions, or part-time "gig" jobs in a variety of fields.
Female workers suffered most heavily in this economy, as work in traditionally feminine fields, like education and medicine, declined during the era.
The research by economists Lawrence Katz of Harvard University and Alan Krueger at Princeton University shows that the proportion of workers throughout the U.S., during the Obama era, who were working in these kinds of temporary jobs, increased from 10.7% of the population to 15.8%.
Krueger, a former chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, was surprised by the finding.

The disappearance of conventional full-time work, 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. work, has hit every demographic. “Workers seeking full-time, steady work have lost,” said Krueger.
Under Obama, 1 million fewer workers, overall, are working than before the beginning of the Great Recession.
https://www.investing.com/news/economy-news/nearly-95-of-all-job-growth-during-obama-era-part-time,-contract-work-449057

noodle
04-08-2017, 10:04 AM
Let's go to the conclusions of the actual study (which aren't really conclusions, because they need more research, just leading explanations) :


Many possible factors could have contributed to the large increase in the incidence of alternative work arrangements for American workers from 2005 to 2015 that we have documented in this paper. Although a fuller evaluation will have to await further research, here we provide an initial evaluation of some leading explanations.

The first explanation is that alternative work is more common among older workers and more highly educated workers, and the workforce has become older and more educated over time. A shift-share analysis, however, indicates that shifts in the age and education distribution of the workforce account for only about 10 percent of the increase in the percentage of workers employed in alternative work arrangements from 2005 to 2015. Other supply-side factors, such as a possible increase in demand for flexible work hours (perhaps supported by the increased availability of health insurance as a result of the Affordable Care Act) may also have contributed, although it is unlikely that supply-side factors account for the lion’s share of the rise in alternative work arrangements since the rise in employees who are hired out to other firms through contract firms or temporary help agencies accounts for more than half of the overall rise in the share of employment in alternative work arrangements in the last decade.

Second, technological changes that lead to enhanced monitoring, standardize job tasks and make information on worker reputation more widely available may be leading to greater disintermediation of job tasks. Coase’s (1937) classic explanation for the boundary of firms rested on the minimization of transaction costs within firm-employee relationships. Technological changes may be reducing the transaction costs associated with contracting out job tasks, however, and thus supporting the disintermediation of work.

Third, Abraham and Taylor (1996) argue that contracting out is often sought because firms seek to restrict the pool of workers with whom rents are shared, as well as to reduce the volatility of core employment. A rise in inter-firm variability in profitability is thus consistent with a greater desire for contracting out to reduce rent sharing (although increased contracting out could also have contributed to the rise in inter-firm variability in profits). Relatedly, Weil (2014) argues that competitive pressures are causing a “fissuring” of the workplace, with either workers being misclassified as contract employees or work being redefined to make greater use of contract workers and independent contractors.

Finally, it is plausible that the dislocation caused by the Great Recession in 2007-2009 may have caused many workers to seek alternative work arrangements when traditional employment was not available. Although we cannot assess how much of the rise in alternative work arrangements occurred in the aftermath of the Great Recession, if this is the case then one might expect a return to a lower percentage of workers employed in alternative work arrangements over time, as the effects of the recession continue to fade.


The only part of the conclusions of the actual study (and not right-wing rhetoric based on cherrypicking the report out of context) that can even be attributed directly to the Obama Administration is that more people may not be working in traditional employment because they are no longer forced to, thanks to the wider availability of health care outside of said employment structure.

Damn that Obama, freeing people from forced servitude to earn what the rest of the developed world considers a basic human right without toiling away in a job they don't like or want! Health care is meant to be doled out only to those who deserve it through their hard work & bootstrap-pulling-up-ness! What's next, doling it out universally to everyone instead of a complicated system of insurance, middlemen, HMOs, hospitals & doctor networks, like some sorta socialists?!

https://krueger.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/akrueger/files/katz_krueger_cws_-_march_29_20165.pdf

moahunter
04-08-2017, 10:12 AM
^^I believe its the first time Mazda will be building in North American (well, post their old links with Ford). People may not like Trump, but the business community has taken to heart the risk of losing US marketplace if they don't have US manufacturing (even if there is no teeth behind the threat).

Edmonton PRT
04-08-2017, 10:23 AM
Canada’s job market runs hot as jobless rate hits 9-year low
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/canadas-economy-adds-10900-jobs-jobless-rate-falls-to-63/article35880487/

I guess we have to credit Trump for Canada's booming job market as well. It certainly can't be credited to Trudeau.


How much credit can you give Trump for the US job numbers that have been a long term trend for nearly 8 years, not 8 months?

noodle
04-08-2017, 10:28 AM
A little more than 1/12th?

KC
04-08-2017, 11:22 AM
A surprisingly thorough article here. Trump's looking great in several respects!

How Do Trump's Dow Records Stack Up? - Bloomberg

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-03/does-trump-stack-up-to-a-record-setting-dow

Spudly
04-08-2017, 11:45 AM
The stock market makes money for folks holding (or cashing in) stocks. Regular Americans though, will be affected by the US dollar dropping over Trump's term.

moahunter
04-08-2017, 11:47 AM
The stock market makes money for folks holding (or cashing in) stocks. Regular Americans though, will be affected by the US dollar dropping over Trump's term.
No, regular Americans (and Canadians) depend on the stock market to fund their retirements, the biggest investors in corporations are pension funds, regular folks / middle class.

H.L.
04-08-2017, 11:59 AM
The stock market makes money for folks holding (or cashing in) stocks. Regular Americans though, will be affected by the US dollar dropping over Trump's term.
No, regular Americans (and Canadians) depend on the stock market to fund their retirements, the biggest investors in corporations are pension funds, regular folks / middle class.
Of course they do. God, if this was Mr O, people would be shrieking his praises!

kkozoriz
04-08-2017, 12:06 PM
Seeing as under Obama the market has increased much more that under Trump and the fact that Obama started from a much, much weaker position, yeah.

Trump is like a baseball player who was born on third base claiming he's great because he hit a triple.

Spudly
04-08-2017, 12:15 PM
The stock market makes money for folks holding (or cashing in) stocks. Regular Americans though, will be affected by the US dollar dropping over Trump's term.
No, regular Americans (and Canadians) depend on the stock market to fund their retirements, the biggest investors in corporations are pension funds, regular folks / middle class.
Of course they do. God, if this was Mr O, people would be shrieking his praises!

Stocks are only worth anything if they're cashed in, so inflated 401k and RRSP numbers are misleading measures of wealth, for only those who hold the paper. A change in the value of the dollar has an immediate impact on everyone.

That's why Trump is only trumpeting the rise in the Dow: it looks good.

H.L.
04-08-2017, 12:32 PM
The stock market makes money for folks holding (or cashing in) stocks. Regular Americans though, will be affected by the US dollar dropping over Trump's term.
No, regular Americans (and Canadians) depend on the stock market to fund their retirements, the biggest investors in corporations are pension funds, regular folks / middle class.
Of course they do. God, if this was Mr O, people would be shrieking his praises!

Stocks are only worth anything if they're cashed in, so inflated 401k and RRSP numbers are misleading measures of wealth, for only those who hold the paper. A change in the value of the dollar has an immediate impact on everyone.

That's why Trump is only trumpeting the rise in the Dow: it looks good.

I had CNN on they were talking about it.Where did I say Trump was talking about It?
Get off many jock, leftie !

noodle
04-08-2017, 12:36 PM
I had CNN, they were talking about it.Where did I say Trump was talking about It?
Get off many jock, leftie !

Do you smell toast? Are you having a stroke?

MrOilers
07-08-2017, 12:24 PM
Is The Trump Jobs Boom Beginning?

So are Trump's efforts to get the economy going again through a series of bold executive orders starting kick in? It sure looks that way.

As Timothy Doescher of the Heritage Foundation's Daily Signal news blog notes, the recent pick up in job gains come "without major substantive reforms like repealing ObamaCare or tax cuts. Instead, gains have likely come from reductions in harmful regulations that make it easier to run businesses in the U.S."


http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/is-the-trump-jobs-boom-beginning/

MrOilers
07-08-2017, 12:28 PM
Construction industry sees wages increase since the crackdown on illegal immigration:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/02/texas-home-builders-relying-on-immigrant-labor-feel-effects-immigrant-crackdown.html

moahunter
07-08-2017, 12:35 PM
^not surprising, I was told by Texans in the past, the reason their housing is so cheap, is all the illegal immigrant labor. Its bizarre to me that the left wing in the US, who supposedly care about worker salaries, also want illegal immigration (who basically get abused for minimal compensation which removes jobs for blue collar American workers).

MrOilers
07-08-2017, 12:48 PM
^ It's the same argument the Democrats used back 1800s when defending slavery - i.e. "Without slaves, who will pick the cotton for such a low wage?"

Edmonton PRT
07-08-2017, 12:53 PM
We have plane loads of Mexican immigrant construction workings coming to Canada every summer season as well.

In the real world, most of the hand picked crops are done by immigrant, seasonal and illegal workers. If they completely cut the tide, everything from strawberries to peaches would rot in the fields because few 'white' students, new generation and welfare recipients want to bend down in the dirt for minimum wage and work.

Labor shortages do increase the price of goods and services.

Home prices will then rise as well as food prices.

Good in some ways unless you want to go to the grocery store. Wanna pay $10 for a basket of strawberries?

MrOilers
07-08-2017, 02:31 PM
I've also seen lefties defending the exploitation of illegal aliens because illegals can be paid slave wages.

Edmonton PRT
07-08-2017, 03:12 PM
You buy products made in China, don't you?

norwoodguy
07-08-2017, 04:34 PM
Trump's plan to reduce/eliminate regulations should help small businesses. So we could see real wage growth if the labor market becomes really tight.

kkozoriz
08-08-2017, 12:25 AM
Yeah, Trump's really a fan of hiring American. Here's a thought, what if he offered more money to the workers?


Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort applies for 70 foreign worker visas during 'Made in America' week
The 'Winter White House' claims it could find no Americans to fill non-agricultural seasonal jobs
The company is seeking 35 waiters and waitresses at Mar-a-Lago along with 20 cooks and 15 maids. A listing is also posted for six cooks at the Trump National Golf Club in Jupiter, Florida.


The jobs pay anywhere from $10.33 to $20.01 per hour. They run from Oct. 1 to May 31.


Between 2013 and 2015, his Mar-a-Lago property in Florida employed 246 workers on the H-2B visa. Since 2000, Mr Trump received 1,024 H-2B visas for his businesses for waiters, kitchen, and housekeeping staff, according to a CNN report.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-foreign-worker-visas-mar-a-lago-made-in-america-week-a7853436.html

MrOilers
08-08-2017, 09:51 AM
Are they legal workers?

moahunter
08-08-2017, 10:27 AM
^there doesn't seem to be any evidence Trump is sneaking them in illegally and paying them less than minimum wage (which is what the entire illegal immigration debate is about).

Edmonton PRT
08-08-2017, 10:30 AM
Why does he not find staff who live in Florida?

Drumbones
08-08-2017, 10:44 AM
You obviously have never owned a business of any size. It can be very difficult to find help. Without help you don't have a business. Donald Trump was never against immigration or legal workers from abroad. He was against illegal aliens , people sneaking in across the borders by the millions and being in the country illegally, working illegally, not paying taxes and generally using the system. Get your facts straight.

Medwards
08-08-2017, 11:22 AM
Help is hard to find when you want to pay low wages. Help is never hard to find when you pay a reasonable amount for the work being done.

Drumbones
08-08-2017, 11:41 AM
$10 to $20 is fairly good for those particular jobs in that area. Some of these jobs would also be tipped well.

MrOilers
08-08-2017, 11:53 AM
Those aren't high wages, but arguing that the solution is to hire illegals to do it instead is actually kind of racist.

kkozoriz
08-08-2017, 11:55 AM
If those were good wages, Trump would be able to find people locally to work there.

The Foreign Workers of Mar-a-Lago
The President has a dim view of extending visas to employees in the technology industry. But, when it comes to his club, it’s a different story.


When it comes to America’s technology industry, Donald Trump takes a dim view of foreign workers. “I will end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program”—it provides visas for technical and skilled employees—“and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers for every visa and immigration program,” he said in a statement a year ago. “No exceptions.”


When it comes to the hospitality industry, though, Trump is much more, well, hospitable. His Administration recently made it harder to get H1-B visas, but he has expressed no objection to the visa category that hotels and resorts use—the H-2B—to attract low-cost, low-skilled seasonal labor. In fact, at Mar-a-Lago, his Palm Beach club, the visas are still in active use. Why the exception to the no-exception rule?

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/20/the-foreign-workers-of-mar-a-lago



Says he won't raise the minimum wage. That wages are too high.


Donald Trump said wages are 'too high' in his opening debate statement

"We are a country that is being beaten on every front — economically, militarily," Trump said. "Taxes too high, wages too high, we're not going to be able to compete against the world ... People have to go out, they have to work really hard, and they have to get into that upper stratum."

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-wages-too-high-2015-11

Drumbones
08-08-2017, 12:00 PM
Those aren't high wages, but arguing that the solution is to hire illegals to do it instead is actually kind of racist.

Ya it's stupid. I had an illegal Brit on a jobsite once and immigration and the RCMP hauled him off. He was deported directly. He had even bought a house here. Canada upholds the laws why can't DT

Edmonton PRT
08-08-2017, 12:14 PM
You obviously have never owned a business of any size. It can be very difficult to find help. Without help you don't have a business. Donald Trump was never against immigration or legal workers from abroad. He was against illegal aliens , people sneaking in across the borders by the millions and being in the country illegally, working illegally, not paying taxes and generally using the system. Get your facts straight.

Well you are wrong. I have three companies. I have hired many people over the years and never had to resort to sourcing foreigners on work visas.

It may be legal to do so but flies in the face of what Trump yells at the top of his lungs. He does not practice what he preachs. Rather than hiring local people, he brings in foreign workers. And he gets his line of Trump clothing made in Mexico, China and other foreign countries with low wages.

Get YOUR facts straight!

Edmonton PRT
08-08-2017, 12:15 PM
Those aren't high wages, but arguing that the solution is to hire illegals to do it instead is actually kind of racist.

Ya it's stupid. I had an illegal Brit on a jobsite once and immigration and the RCMP hauled him off. He was deported directly. He had even bought a house here. Canada upholds the laws why can't DT

FYI, two out of every three Haitians coming into Canada from the US are being deported.

kkozoriz
08-08-2017, 12:16 PM
But let's just let the crops rot in the fields. That'll show 'em!



Alabama immigration: crops rot as workers vanish to avoid crackdown
The day before harsh new laws came into effect, Brian Cash had 65 Hispanic men picking tomatoes. Now he has none
Cash says that losing his pickers is much more than a commercial disaster. "Many of these people are friends and like family to us. They have been working for my family for years."


The crew leader for Cash's fields has been working for his family for 17 years. "He's my age and we pretty much grew up together," he says.


Cash has sponsored him in his application for American naturalisation – a process that the immigration authorities have said will take up to nine years and cost up to $17,000.


The crew leader already has permanent residency status and his two children are US citizens, but because his wife is undocumented he was fearful of the new law and left abruptly along with the others the minute the provisions came in.


Cash gets angry when people tell him that his Hispanic workforce was taking jobs away from Americans. Since the new law began two weeks ago only two American citizens have come by his farm asking for work.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigration-law-workers

(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigration-law-workers)

MrOilers
08-08-2017, 12:46 PM
So you prefer seeing slaves working the plantations?

To each their own.

Drumbones
08-08-2017, 12:51 PM
Those aren't high wages, but arguing that the solution is to hire illegals to do it instead is actually kind of racist.

Ya it's stupid. I had an illegal Brit on a jobsite once and immigration and the RCMP hauled him off. He was deported directly. He had even bought a house here. Canada upholds the laws why can't DT

FYI, two out of every three Haitians coming into Canada from the US are being deported.

Exactly what I said. Canada upholds it's immigration laws, why can't Donald Trump

Drumbones
08-08-2017, 12:59 PM
You obviously have never owned a business of any size. It can be very difficult to find help. Without help you don't have a business. Donald Trump was never against immigration or legal workers from abroad. He was against illegal aliens , people sneaking in across the borders by the millions and being in the country illegally, working illegally, not paying taxes and generally using the system. Get your facts straight.

Well you are wrong. I have three companies. I have hired many people over the years and never had to resort to sourcing foreigners on work visas.

It may be legal to do so but flies in the face of what Trump yells at the top of his lungs. He does not practice what he preachs. Rather than hiring local people, he brings in foreign workers. And he gets his line of Trump clothing made in Mexico, China and other foreign countries with low wages.

Get YOUR facts straight!

I've had a lot of people working for me over the years too, never had problems and paid higher wages or by contract but that's the trades not restaurant and golf course workers. There is not much of a margin, why do you think Tim's and the others have all the Filipinos and others. It's because selling coffee and doughnuts is not the same margin as construction contracts. Nothing will register with you. Just plain hard headed. Do you think he pays his electricians and mechanical contractors $10 to $20. No he sure does not. It's just not the same thing. If he paid restaurant workers and housekeepers $25 or $40 bucks an hour he would no longer have those particular businesses as they would be bankrupt. Same goes for Tim's and the others.

kkozoriz
08-08-2017, 02:12 PM
No, Trump hires contractors and then after paying them half of what the contract calls for just stops paying them. Time after time after time....



Trump D.C. Hotel Contractors Say They're Owed Millions

During a ribbon-cutting ceremony, Trump told the crowd that the two-year, roughly $200 million renovation project at the historic Old Post Office Building was done ahead of schedule and under budget, thanks to what he called an incredible team of people — "including hundreds of construction workers, electricians, maintenance workers and so many others who helped make this project a reality. They're really the important ones."


Now some of those companies would like final payment for their work. Documents obtained by NPR show three Washington-area companies have filed liens against Trump International Hotel totaling more than $5 million.


One company, Joseph J. Magnolia Inc., filed a $2.98 million mechanic's lien in December. According to the filing, the firm worked on the hotel from September 2014 to December 2016 and "completed all plumbing, mechanical and HVAC work, along with site sewer, water, storm and water services."

http://www.npr.org/2017/01/11/509168365/trump-d-c-hotel-contractors-say-theyre-owed-millions


And



'He's a crook!'; 'Little guy' contractors lost millions after Trump's Taj casino went bankrupt
'If ethics or morality has nothing to do with business, he's a very good businessman'



A quarter of a century had passed since Donald Trump refused to pay US$1.2 million for the paving stones her late husband installed at Atlantic City's Taj Mahal casino. But for Paone and others like her -- the dozens of contractors and their families who never got all they were owed -- it could have happened yesterday.


The contractor who provided the onion domes atop the Taj had to eat $2 million in losses. The contractor who supplied the Carrara marble from Italy ended up filing for personal bankruptcy. The contractor who put in the bathroom partitions had to lay off his brother.

---

After the Taj opened in April 1990, the self-anointed "King of Debt" owed $70 million to 253 contractors employing thousands who built the domes and minarets, put up the glass and drywall, laid the pipes and installed everything from chandeliers to bathroom fixtures. A year later, when the casino collapsed into bankruptcy, those owed the most got only 33 cents in cash for each dollar owed, with promises of another 50 cents later. It took years to get the rest, assuming the companies survived long enough to collect.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/06/29/hes-a-crook-little-guy-contractors-lost-millions-after-trumps-taj-casino-went-bankrupt





And




TRUMP ACCUSED OF ROUTINELY STIFFING HIS OWN EMPLOYEES
Thousands of complaints allege the billionaire failed to pay workers what he owed.

According to a USA Today investigation, Trump has received at least 3,500 official complaints for failing to pay employees, contractors, and other business affiliates money owed. The paper also found at least 60 lawsuits, 24 instances where Trump failed to pay overtime and minimum wage, and countless out-of-court settlements. Among those to whom Trump owed money, according to USA Today: dishwashers, bartenders, painters, real-estate brokers, and ironically, even his own lawyers. In 1990, a casino commission audit of the Trump Taj Mahal, then about to open, revealed that Trump owed an astounding $69.5 million to 253 subcontractors. Marty Rosenberg, the owner of a plate glass company who was owed $1.5 million, said that he was only able to recover 70 cents on the dollar for his work, and that he was one of the lucky ones. “Yes, there were a lot of other companies. . . Yes, some did not survive,” he told USA Today.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/06/donald-trump-lawsuit-contractors


But, to those on the right, it just makes him a smart businessman.

kkozoriz
12-08-2017, 12:21 PM
Tell me again how good Trump is for the stock market? Even splitting the blame, they're both on the hook for $500,000,000,000


Nuclear Fears Wipe $1 Trillion Off Global Stock Markets
Threats of global cataclysm tend not to inspire market confidence.


LONDON, Aug 11 (Reuters) - The damage inflicted on world stocks this week by the escalating war of words over North Korea topped US$1 trillion (C$1.27 trillion) on Friday, as investors again took cover in the yen, the Swiss franc, gold and government bonds.


With the tense mood pushing European shares down for a third day and Wall Street set to fall again, global stocks were on course for their worst week since Donald Trump won November's U.S. presidential election.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/08/11/nuclear-fears-wipe-1-trillion-off-global-stock-markets_a_23074645/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage

MrOilers
12-08-2017, 11:50 PM
Think of how bad the stock market would be after NK's threats without having all those gains already!

kkozoriz
19-08-2017, 04:46 PM
From that well known lefty business mag, Forbes.



Donald Trump Is Beginning To Lose To Obama In His Favorite Metric: Stock Market Performance

President Donald Trump is beginning to fall behind his predecessor President Barack Obama on one key gauge of his agenda: The stock market.


From Trump's Inauguration Day to present, the S&P 500 Index has gained around 7%. That's less than a third of the 25% gain the S&P posted over the same horizon after Obama took office in 2009. Going forward Trump, who ran on an agenda of business-friendly policies such as tax cuts and deregulation, may find Obama a tough foe when it comes to stock market gains.


During Obama's eight years in office, the S&P 500 returned 235% or 16.4% annually, one of the best performances of any recent president, as markets recovered from the carnage of the financial crisis and the U.S. economy emerged from the "Great Recession." By the time he left office, Obama's stock market performance was in-line with gains posted under President Ronald Reagan amid a curbing of inflation, a revival of growth and the market's quick recovery from the 1987 crash. President Bill Clinton holds the mantle for the biggest gains of any recent president, having held office during the technology boom of the 1990s.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoinegara/2017/08/18/donald-trump-is-beginning-to-lose-to-obama-in-his-favorite-metric-stock-market-performance/#53c500e46a51






And this:



Donald Trump wipes $5.7bn off the value of Amazon with single tweet

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/donald-trump-amazon-value-5-billion-drop-off-shares-tweet-social-media-jeff-bezos-a7896266.html

MrOilers
19-08-2017, 11:36 PM
Unemployment dropping significantly in states that Trump flipped - Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Iowa, Ohio, and Florida.

https://archive.fo/kow8m


If this keeps up, 2020 is a lock for him.

Hilman
20-08-2017, 08:16 AM
That was definitely all due to Obama ;)

MrOilers
30-08-2017, 09:08 AM
US revised second-quarter GDP up 3.0%

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/30/us-revised-second-quarter-gdp.html


The GDP never reached 3% during Obama's presidency.

Marcel Petrin
30-08-2017, 09:49 PM
US revised second-quarter GDP up 3.0%

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/30/us-revised-second-quarter-gdp.html


The GDP never reached 3% during Obama's presidency.

Do you lie out of sheer ignorance, or mendacity?

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdp_glance.htm

Quarterly GDP was above 3% in Q3 and Q4 2013, Q2 and Q3 2014, and Q1 2015. And that's only going back to halfway through 2013, which is barely a third of his presidency.

Spill
30-08-2017, 10:09 PM
Some here lie because of the money. Some because they're maniacally partisan. Some simply enjoy the perfidious trolling opportunity that anonymity bestows. Though, after a certain level of inanity/impotence/incompetence, the ROI has got to be worth walking away from.

Don't you agree, Hypocrisy League?

Marcel Petrin
31-08-2017, 02:20 PM
No response, MrOilers? Have you no sense of shame or embarrassment in how you repeatedly post falsehoods? Also, it's worth reminding you that Canadian GDP in the second quarter was up by 4.5%, annualized. Once again, I find it odd that you're not trumpeting that. Pun intended.

Spudly
31-08-2017, 02:38 PM
Why fill this thread, or any other, with this nonsense? Just to see who can whiz farther? Quit taking the bait! You're not going to convince anyone, or "correct" or "teach" them, even yourselves. MrOilers has clearly won because he's got y'all giving him attention, arguing about a lifelong attention wh0re.

MrOilers
31-08-2017, 03:14 PM
Canadian GDP in the second quarter was up by 4.5%, annualized. Once again, I find it odd that you're not trumpeting that.

Why is that odd? This is the US politics thread, not Canada's.


But on that note, thank goodness Paul Martin's Liberal and Stephen Harper's Conservative governments were more responsible so that Canada didn't have to suffer the nightmare of the US economy under Dubya and Obama.

KC
20-10-2017, 08:18 PM
U.S. ends fiscal 2017 with $666 billion budget deficit - MarketWatch

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-ends-fiscal-2017-with-666-billion-budget-deficit-2017-10-20

Edmonton PRT
20-10-2017, 08:30 PM
That was definitely all due to Trump.

With a deficit, best thing to do is to cut revenue by reducing taxes.

Drumbones
21-10-2017, 04:24 AM
666, the mark of the devil. Someone must be scripting this stuff.

KC
21-10-2017, 11:10 AM
666, the mark of the devil. Someone must be scripting this stuff.

“The devil you say”

:-)

MrOilers
19-11-2017, 01:24 PM
Credit Trump for boosting business and fueling our economic growth

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/360456-credit-trump-for-boosting-business-and-fueling-our-economic-growth




Unable to credibly ignore this economic surge, the current tactic for progressive Democrats is to deny its cause. Congresswoman Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) recently stated that Trump deserves “absolutely” no credit for the growing economy because he has yet to pass “any legislation,” has not been “involved in public policy” and “doesn’t know really what’s going on on Wall Street.” While few people look to Representative Waters for economic guidance, CNN’s global economic analyst Rana Foroohar claimed, “We’ve fact checked the fact that Donald Trump does not deserve credit for anything good that has happened in the American economy in the last six months.”

This “Trump gets no credit” approach says a lot about how poorly progressive Democrats understand what drives economic growth. It isn’t more government; its less. In his first nine months, President Trump has taken a machete to the Obama era’s rules and regulations that have been choking American businesses like parasitic vines. In fact, a recent analysis by the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI), a libertarian think tank, found that Trump is deregulating the economy at a pace no other president ever has.

kkozoriz
23-11-2017, 05:49 PM
Don Jr. obviously doesn't read.


Donald Trump Jr screws up and makes Thanksgiving even worse for Donald Trump

Donald Trump Jr – who has blocked Palmer Report on Twitter because we keep calling him out on these kinds of things – thought he was being clever by posting a link to a new article from the Economist. He braggingly tweeted “You know you’re winning when even the Economist acknowledges POTUS is making things work for the middle class as promised.” The trouble: he clearly didn’t read the Economist article in question before he posted a link to it.

Here’s a sampling of what the Economist article actually says about the U.S. economy under Donald Trump: “Has Mr Trump kept his promise to revive American manufacturing, mining and the like? A more probable explanation is that he came to office just as America began to run out of willing workers to fill all of its job vacancies.” (link). In other words, the article is acknowledging that the U.S. economy was built up under President Obama, and now Trump just sort of happens to be there.

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/jr-screws-up/6186/

Dave
23-11-2017, 06:16 PM
Don Jr. obviously doesn't read.


Donald Trump Jr screws up and makes Thanksgiving even worse for Donald Trump

Donald Trump Jr – who has blocked Palmer Report on Twitter because we keep calling him out on these kinds of things – thought he was being clever by posting a link to a new article from the Economist. He braggingly tweeted “You know you’re winning when even the Economist acknowledges POTUS is making things work for the middle class as promised.” The trouble: he clearly didn’t read the Economist article in question before he posted a link to it.

Here’s a sampling of what the Economist article actually says about the U.S. economy under Donald Trump: “Has Mr Trump kept his promise to revive American manufacturing, mining and the like? A more probable explanation is that he came to office just as America began to run out of willing workers to fill all of its job vacancies.” (link). In other words, the article is acknowledging that the U.S. economy was built up under President Obama, and now Trump just sort of happens to be there.

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/jr-screws-up/6186/



Well not the Economist apparently, but I wouldn't say he's doesn't read at all. He seems more like a comic book guy.

KC
29-12-2017, 09:50 AM
Most often the doom and gloom forecasts don’t materialize - not as predicted anyway.

The Brexit fearmongers had it being disastrous too.




UK stock markets close at a record high - BBC News

“US stock markets have also hit new peaks over the year, helped by Donald Trump's sweeping tax reforms.
Stephen Eckett, author of the annual Harriman Stock Market Almanac, said: "All the dangers that were anticipated with a Trump administration haven't materialised." “

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42512023

Edmonton PRT
29-12-2017, 09:53 AM
Trump still trying to ride the Stock Market as his baby. If it slumps in 2018, how will he distance himself from the loses?

Swillv8
29-12-2017, 11:20 AM
The left for the majority will not credit trump. Even after 24000 pts on the Dow there were articles crediting Obama.

it has been a HUGE spike 25%? In 1 year. With most spikes do come dips eventually, when ;it's hard to say. Even if America engages in full out war this will not stop this confidence train. 2018 will be another banner year even if the Dow " only" goes to 27000 pts and maintains.

If the market comes down all the knives will be out and will be trumps fault. There is an information war going on right now. Multiple Academic papers being released one notably from Harvard showing Trump getting 90+ percent coverage that was negative through media outlets. Mainstream media untill the very last minute would not admit Trump even had a chance of winning the election and this was supported by hundreds of polling numbers through research firms supposedly independent. This same media is claiming constantly Trump does not have the support of the American people but there are so many aspects that say otherwise one being the stock market and business confidence levels and employee confidence levels .

kkozoriz
29-12-2017, 11:22 AM
Putin's got great numbers too! The best!

Edmonton PRT
29-12-2017, 11:53 AM
The left for the majority will not credit trump. Even after 24000 pts on the Dow there were articles crediting Obama.

it has been a HUGE spike 25%? In 1 year. With most spikes do come dips eventually, when ;it's hard to say. Even if America engages in full out war this will not stop this confidence train. 2018 will be another banner year even if the Dow " only" goes to 27000 pts and maintains.

If the market comes down all the knives will be out and will be trumps fault. There is an information war going on right now. Multiple Academic papers being released one notably from Harvard showing Trump getting 90+ percent coverage that was negative through media outlets. Mainstream media untill the very last minute would not admit Trump even had a chance of winning the election and this was supported by hundreds of polling numbers through research firms supposedly independent. This same media is claiming constantly Trump does not have the support of the American people but there are so many aspects that say otherwise one being the stock market and business confidence levels and employee confidence levels .

Reality Check


I still chuckle when Trump states that he "inherited a mess". If a mess is a rising stock market, low unemployment and a growing economy, as of Jan 20th 2017, what would he have done if he became President in Jan 20th, 2009 when another guy took over and inherited G.W. Bush's mess?


Have a look at this chart that compares past Presidents to Trump. It shows that Trump lags Obama in increasing the Stock Market performance in the first 11 months in office.
Obama, 30.3%
Trump 25.0%
Clinton 13.4%
Reagan -7.6%
G.W. Bush -8.0%

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president

Swillv8
29-12-2017, 12:11 PM
Good point.

can we compare apples to apples though? Obama inherited an economy in the deepest recession since the Great Depression, hence the moniker " the Great Recession". With the shear amount of public dollar spent in his entire 8 years as president he doubled the national debt which took 43 previous presidents to spend. The taps were already open from bush however Obama spent trillions, with round after round of quantitative easing, enabling the rich to get filthy rich.

Now we could say the taps are still open from obama and trump era is seeing stimulus which we could not entirely overlook. He is definitely trying pretty hard to close taps, spend less in some aspects, tax cuts etc. Trump era economy was not in the bottom of a recession. It's plateaued maybe a small amount of growth or typical for the last decade 1.5 ( just throwing a number under2%)percent GDP growth . Trump era economy is climbing off of what America has accepted as steady "growth " from Obama era.

Selective charts are as bad as the article in the financial post today claiming record growth in Canadian dollar. While it may be true to a point it hasn't appreciated our dollar in a wholly way only from the depths of the bottom

Edmonton PRT
29-12-2017, 12:42 PM
Trump is the only guy who could run a casino into bankruptcy...

Spudly
29-12-2017, 12:49 PM
4 casinos - he's that good

Swillv8
29-12-2017, 01:34 PM
One of a select few in USA history to become a president. No matter what y'all do in life, never will you accomplish half of what trump has done; good or bad. Mediocre is what describes majority of people

kkozoriz
29-12-2017, 02:18 PM
Fixed that for you


One of a select few in German history to become a Führer. No matter what y'all do in life, never will you accomplish half of what Hitler has done; good or bad. Mediocre is what describes majority of people

See, it still works.

Swillv8
29-12-2017, 02:21 PM
You must have a mental condition, comparisons like this are unfounded and very ignorant to the Jewish people

Edmonton PRT
29-12-2017, 02:23 PM
One of a select few in USA history to become a president. No matter what y'all do in life, never will you accomplish half of what trump has done; good or bad. Mediocre is what describes majority of people

you are right.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmmYZ15W8AASKYr.jpg

Nobody fails better than Trump, HUGE!

kcantor
29-12-2017, 02:30 PM
One of a select few in USA history to become a president. No matter what y'all do in life, never will you accomplish half of what trump has done; good or bad. Mediocre is what describes majority of people
and even fewer are selected to be president of indonesia or the philipines or zaire but suharto and marcos and seco all managed the feat. and all were pretty despicable examples of humanity.

if simply securing the office is the sole criteria and performance counts for naught, i'll take the mediocre majority thank you very much.

as with others who have attained the title of president or prime minister or chancellor or fuhrer or general secretary of the central committee or chairman, the current president of the united states will be judged on his legacy after he has left office, not for securing it and i for one will be happy never to be compared to the donald either before or after his securing it.

kkozoriz
29-12-2017, 02:30 PM
You must have a mental condition, comparisons like this are unfounded and very ignorant to the Jewish people

Merely pointing out that rising to the top of a country politically does not mean that you're a good leader. And I'll tell my great grand parents on my father's side that you think I'm being unfair to them.

Edmonton PRT
29-12-2017, 02:32 PM
One of a select few in USA history to become a president. No matter what y'all do in life, never will you accomplish half of what trump has done; good or bad. Mediocre is what describes majority of people
and even fewer are selected to be president of indonesia or the philipines or zaire but suharto and marcos and seco all managed the feat. and all were pretty despicable examples of humanity.

if simply securing the office is the sole criteria and performance counts for naught, i'll take the mediocre majority thank you very much.

as with others who have attained the title of president or prime minister or chancellor or fuhrer or general secretary of the central committee or chairman, the current president of the united states will be judged on his legacy after he has left office, not for securing it and i for one will be happy never to be compared to the donald either before or after his securing it.

Well said.

Gotta get that "Like" button back...

Swillv8
29-12-2017, 02:39 PM
People who call others down, like here is amazing. Such judgement, from what I can tell arguments against trump are merely deflections, and always reactive. Love to see how pure arm chair posters lives are? Let me pick apart your lives? Seems like many against trump are boiling with hatred, life is to short for that,

kcantor
29-12-2017, 02:45 PM
People who call others down, like here is amazing. Such judgement, from what I can tell arguments against trump are merely deflections, and always reactive. Love to see how pure arm chair posters lives are? Let me pick apart your lives? Seems like many against trump are boiling with hatred, life is to short for that,
well if that isn't textbook deflection, i don't know what is...

as for your "challenge", let me know if you want a cv and personal and business references in addition to what's publicly available already on linkedin and elsewhere. i'll be happy to send them to any identifiable e-mail address you care to provide by private message or otherwise.

PS. i was always a believer in the american doctrine that "the office made the president", not the other way around, and 14 months ago was prepared to give the donald the benefit of a doubt. it would appear, however, that the donald will be the first american president to truly put that myth to bed.

Edmonton PRT
29-12-2017, 02:47 PM
People who call others down, like here is amazing. Such judgement, from what I can tell arguments against trump are merely deflections, and always reactive. Love to see how pure arm chair posters lives are? Let me pick apart your lives? Seems like many against trump are boiling with hatred, life is to short for that,

Keep drinking the Trump Kool-Aid

kkozoriz
29-12-2017, 02:53 PM
Yeah, The Donald is full of the milk of human kindness.


https://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.2675889.1448572153!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpg




"Look at that face," the real estate mogul turned Republican frontrunner is quoted as saying of Mrs Fiorina. "Would anyone vote for that?"


"Can you imagine that, the face of our next next president?" Mr Trump continued. "I mean, she's a woman, and I'm not s'posedta say bad things, but really, folks, come on. Are we serious?"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/donald-trump/11855165/Trump-on-Fiorina-Look-at-that-face.-Would-anyone-vote-for-that.html






Back when George HW Bush was US President, Trump spoke to Esquire magazine about the media: "You know, it doesn't really matter what [they] write as long as you've got a young and beautiful piece of ***."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/donald-trump-sexism-tracker-every-offensive-comment-in-one-place/

And, of course....


“I’ve gotta use some tic tacs, just in case I start kissing her. You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful - I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait.”


“And when you’re a star they let you do it,” Trump says. “You can do anything.”


“Whatever you want,” says another voice, apparently Bush’s.


“Grab them by the p----,” Trump says. “You can do anything.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/07/donald-trump-on-groping-and-kissing-women-when-youre-a-star-they/



But you're right. People are just jealous of him.

Swillv8
29-12-2017, 03:11 PM
im willing to have a conversation, kcantor you seem like a person I could sit,drink a pint and have a conversation. My opinion is broad, I'm not stuck in one train of thought, I'm open to sway if reasonable arguments are made. I will finish with an opinion that there are alot of people who try to speak loader and stronger and therefore the other side becomes silent. I commented here to give an opinion,which I do not do much. I will fade away maybe because I'm not educated enough to defend myself,I don't like typing,or I feel hopeless even carrying on a conversation that is going to consist of me with my back against a wall.

The human condition is interesting nonetheless. I judge myself on milestones also, my " resume" and a moral compass( interestingly I've done well given the cards in my life, I cannot and will not try to take anything away from others without a mile in their shoes kinda thing. I'm a firm believer that my opinion is not " right" and neither is the other guys. Life in its simplest way is basic, we are all just trying to get by.

Dave
29-12-2017, 03:28 PM
Most often the doom and gloom forecasts don’t materialize - not as predicted anyway.

The Brexit fearmongers had it being disastrous too.

UK stock markets close at a record high - BBC News

“US stock markets have also hit new peaks over the year, helped by Donald Trump's sweeping tax reforms.
Stephen Eckett, author of the annual Harriman Stock Market Almanac, said: "All the dangers that were anticipated with a Trump administration haven't materialised." “

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42512023

I think Brexit is turning out to be the balloon slowly deflating, rather than popping which is what some predicted initially. Lower growth than the rest of Europe, rising inflation, stagnant wages it is not pretty in the UK, but not a sudden crash. It will take time for the large financial firms in London to move staff, find/open new locations in the EU, so right now it is just a trickle but that will increase as the deadline for Brexit nears. London's role as an international financial centre will probably be diminished considerably and that is likely to have economic effects as they are good paying jobs, but I don't know it will superseded by any one city as places like Dublin, Paris and Frankfurt are all attracting some interest and investment.

There seems to be a disconnect between the political rhetoric in the US, which might lead many to conclude there is more international instability and the markets which seem to be focusing more on the current overall strength of the economy as opposed to what might go wrong. I wonder if this will last in 2018. Markets don't usually take international instability well.

kcantor
29-12-2017, 03:41 PM
Most often the doom and gloom forecasts don’t materialize - not as predicted anyway.

The Brexit fearmongers had it being disastrous too.

UK stock markets close at a record high - BBC News

“US stock markets have also hit new peaks over the year, helped by Donald Trump's sweeping tax reforms.
Stephen Eckett, author of the annual Harriman Stock Market Almanac, said: "All the dangers that were anticipated with a Trump administration haven't materialised." “

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42512023

I think Brexit is turning out to be the balloon slowly deflating, rather than popping which is what some predicted initially. Lower growth than the rest of Europe, rising inflation, stagnant wages it is not pretty in the UK, but not a sudden crash. It will take time for the large financial firms in London to move staff, find/open new locations in the EU, so right now it is just a trickle but that will increase as the deadline for Brexit nears. London's role as an international financial centre will probably be diminished considerably and that is likely to have economic effects as they are good paying jobs, but I don't know it will superseded by any one city as places like Dublin, Paris and Frankfurt are all attracting some interest and investment.

There seems to be a disconnect between the political rhetoric in the US, which might lead many to conclude there is more international instability and the markets which seem to be focusing more on the current overall strength of the economy as opposed to what might go wrong. I wonder if this will last in 2018. Markets don't usually take international instability well.
while the american markets have had a [very] good year in isolation, they have been far from the best performing markets worldwide...

furthermore, when that growth in world wide markets is converted to american dollars from local currencies, they overshadow the american market performance even more as the dollar continues to drop.

https://www.yardeni.com/pub/peacockglstkytd.pdf

Edmonton PRT
29-12-2017, 03:53 PM
People who call others down, like here is amazing. Such judgement, from what I can tell arguments against trump are merely deflections, and always reactive. Love to see how pure arm chair posters lives are? Let me pick apart your lives? Seems like many against trump are boiling with hatred, life is to short for that,

Who pulled the first punch? Did we hate Trump from the start or did he hate others first? If he had come in as an outsider with business acumen, solid points of view, creative solutions and a vision of leadership, many of us would have supported him.

Instead, he attacked his opponents including other Republican Presidential candidates, with vile mudslinging, propaganda, lies and seeding hatred against others. All the while he boasted his (questionable) accomplishments, changed his positions multiple times and blamed everyone else including Obama, Hillary and the press.

Then he became President and stated that he would be soooo Presidential that we would be bored.

Tell me when he has become Presidential?

Edmonton PRT
29-12-2017, 05:47 PM
I love how Trump compares himself with Obama on popularity on this date with a singular Rasmussen poll. Not mentioning that on Dec 28th, 2009 it was the bottom of the Great Recession and Obama was just gaining traction on his policies to overcome the Bush mess. You know, the tendency of the economy to take a year to react to a new administration. Then Trump takes full credit for the past 11 months, even taking credit for all the gains of the past 8 years. Not once but every time he speaks.

I thought that the "real unemployment rate" was 40% accoring to his statements as a fake candidate.

KC
29-12-2017, 09:08 PM
Charlie Munger:




An Interview with Charlie Munger, Vice Chairman of Berkshire Hathaway – December 20, 2017 | Dr. David Kass


In this 55 minute University of Michigan Business School interview with Charlie Munger, Charlie imparts 93 years of wisdom including current advice: “Bitcoin is insanity…avoid it like the plague”. (Note: Charlie Munger will be 94 on January 1, 2018.)

http://blogs.rhsmith.umd.edu/davidkass/uncategorized/an-interview-with-charlie-munger-vice-chairman-of-berkshire-hatahway-2017/



...


Scott DeRue: Charlie, what I hear you saying is you're not going to be investing in Bitcoin is that that's fair?

Charlie Munger: It’s fair.

Scott DeRue: So let me move to a similarly maybe controversial topic but there's a lot of tax policy conversation going on both here in California and nationally as well what's your thoughts on where this ends up in terms of the policy?

Charlie Munger: I think that we will get a tax bill. I think they will squeak it through and they’ll make whatever adjustments they have to do to get the last few votes. I don't think it's a bit crazy to give this extra $2000 a year to all those people that make $70,000 a year and have a lot of children. That strikes me as good politics and probably good policy. I also do not think it is crazy to reduce the corporate income tax on the C corporation. If you look at the world a lot of the places that work best including Singapore and so forth, have that policy and may even have good macroeconomic consequences. A lot of the people are screaming about it. And are so sure it won't work.

They may not be right it may actually work pretty well. It causes the capital values of the companies to come up and there's a wealth effect from the increased market value of all the companies. Everybody recognizes there's an effect but some people say it's small and some people say it's going to be large and I'll tell you what they all have in common. None of them knows. It is not totally inconceivable that it would work pretty well and with so much of the world doing well with similar tax policy. And of course, the Democrats go berserk on the subject. I think they're wrong. It may actually help them. I'm not sure it'll work. It may not but it's not totally crazy.

...

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.valuewalk.com/2017/12/charlie-munger-bitcoin/amp/

http://www.valuewalk.com/2017/12/charlie-munger-bitcoin/


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S9HgIGzOENA

MrOilers
02-01-2018, 10:35 AM
US Manufacturing Optimism Reaches an All-Time High: https://archive.fo/ZejXq

kkozoriz
06-01-2018, 12:02 PM
So much winning



Internet mocks Fox News after it’s forced to admit job growth was stronger under Obama than Trump


The official monthly jobs report for December 2017 was a disappointment, as the Labor Department estimated that the economy added just 148,000 jobs over the last month.


And despite the fact that President Donald Trump has bragged about his first year in office being an unqualified economic success, it turns out that average monthly job growth in 2017 was 171,000 jobs per month — which was down significantly from the 187,000 jobs per month that were added in 2016.


What’s more, the monthly average of 171,000 jobs created in 2017 was actually the lowest average monthly job growth since 2010, when just 88,000 jobs were added per month.


https://www.rawstory.com/2018/01/internet-mocks-fox-news-after-its-forced-to-admit-job-growth-was-stronger-under-obama-than-trump/

kkozoriz
13-01-2018, 09:44 AM
But the tax cuts will boost the economy soooooo much.


Walmart is reportedly cutting thousands of store co-managers after raising wages

Walmart is cutting thousands of store manager positions and adding new lower-paid positions, Bloomberg reports.


The retailer is removing 3,500 salaried co-managers and adding 1,700 assistant store managers.

http://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-firing-managers-report-2018-1

MrOilers
13-01-2018, 02:02 PM
Incomes rising, salaries rising, stock markets (and people's investments, pensions and retirement savings) at all-time highs, unemployment rates falling everywhere, almost everybody keeping their money saved on taxes, millions of new jobs, billions of dollars being repatriated, and the headline you choose to post is about a handful of Wal-Mart jobs lost due to restructuring their management. :smt042

MrOilers
13-01-2018, 05:22 PM
Wall Street Journal estimates that more than 90% of workers will have bigger take-home pay starting next month under new tax plan.


https://archive.fo/eHnuk#selection-2105.0-2105.110

Swillv8
13-01-2018, 05:45 PM
Fake news!!!!!!!

Canada is the best; until they tax the crap out of the people like Trudeau and notley they should shut the fucc up

Medwards
14-01-2018, 11:45 AM
Wall Street Journal estimates that more than 90% of workers will have bigger take-home pay starting next month under new tax plan.


https://archive.fo/eHnuk#selection-2105.0-2105.110

Isn't wall street journal owned and run by murdoch who meets weekly with Trump to discuss propaganda strategies? (The same owner of foxnews?)

kkozoriz
14-01-2018, 01:33 PM
If they have more take home pay they're still going to end up with less due to the loss of deductions, the expiry of the tax cuts for individuals (corporate cuts are permanent) and rising health care costs due to the undermining of the ACA such as the removal of the Individual Mandate which will allow currently healthy people to give up their insurance, leaving the poor and sick to cover the greater costs.

But hey, tax cuts! The right's solution for everything. Economy good? Taking too much money, cut taxes. Economy bad? Can't afford taxes, cut them. War (as in Iraq)? Cut the taxes and the war will pay for itself.

kkozoriz
15-01-2018, 09:29 AM
https://images.dailykos.com/images/494736/story_image/TMW2018-01-17color.png?1515794417

MrOilers
15-01-2018, 10:16 AM
If they have more take home pay they're still going to end up with less

So you think that having more money means you have less?

Does that mean that losing money to higher taxes means you have more?

Edmonton PRT
15-01-2018, 10:20 AM
If you get a $1,000 tax break but you lose your health insurance, are you really ahead?

BTW, those tax breaks are temporary for the voters but permanent for the corporations.

MrOilers
15-01-2018, 11:07 AM
Laws can (and do) change.

noodle
15-01-2018, 11:12 AM
Yeah, that's basically Trump's entire legislative effort: rolling back laws passed by his predecessor who's guilty of the two biggest crimes against the Real America (Presidenting while being a Democrat & the most egregious crime of all, Presidenting while black) regardless of their substance, simply out of spite.

But that knife cuts both ways.

kcantor
15-01-2018, 11:46 AM
Yeah, that's basically Trump's entire legislative effort: rolling back laws passed by his predecessor who's guilty of the two biggest crimes against the Real America (Presidenting while being a Democrat & the most egregious crime of all, Presidenting while black) regardless of their substance, simply out of spite.

But that knife cuts both ways.
i'm starting to think even this might be giving trump too much credit and that his entire presidential legislative agenda is nothing more than pure payback for obama's comedy routine at the white house press dinner in 2011 (an event that used to be private and closed to the public).

would that be nothing short of petty and vindictive? absolutely. but the donald is well documented as maintaining and elevating high levels of pettiness and vindictiveness for long periods of time.

noodle
15-01-2018, 12:00 PM
His racist axe to grind predates the press dinner, what with him being a keystone of the whole Birther movement.

That being said I'm sure it's quite a melange of racism, ignorance, jealousy, petty revenge, & vindictiveness powering his core beliefs & we're both likely in the right. All that's left is semantics & hair-splitting.

Edmonton PRT
15-01-2018, 01:00 PM
The ultimate Ugly American.

MrOilers
15-01-2018, 02:26 PM
Yeah, that's basically Trump's entire legislative effort: rolling back laws passed by his predecessor

It's one big part of it. The state of the USA deteriorated under Obama's presidency.

noodle
15-01-2018, 02:31 PM
Yeah, that Obama ruined EVERYTHING. I mean, look at his economic policy's outcome:


The U.S. economy is in much better shape now than it was in the aftermath of the Great Recession, which cost millions of Americans their homes and jobs and led Obama to push through a roughly $800 billion stimulus package as one of his first orders of business. Unemployment has plummeted from 10% in late 2009 to below 5% today; the Dow Jones Industrial Average has more than doubled.

http://www.pewresearch.org/2017/01/10/how-america-changed-during-barack-obamas-presidency/

The fact you'd outright lie about the economic consequences of the Obama Administration's tenure & falsely ascribe it to Donald Trump is a perfect example of why most of the posters in the politics threads know you're vomiting poop when you purport to be "telling it like it is" just like your role model Trump.

MrOilers
15-01-2018, 02:37 PM
Build Obama up all you like (and I know you will), but there was no huge difference between his and Dubya's presidencies. Too much money spent and too much involvement in pointless wars in Middle Eastern countries (and, in the process, turning several of them into shitholes).

Medwards
15-01-2018, 02:46 PM
And Trumps done what with those wars since coming into power just under a year ago?

(don't forget all the new tension he's brought to the middle east with Israel and the twitter nuclear war he's having with Kim Jong Un... and several other things)

noodle
15-01-2018, 02:52 PM
Build Obama up all you like (and I know you will), but there was no huge difference between his and Dubya's presidencies.

Yeah, now you're clearly completely divorced from reality.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/07f769cae7119b662a375326a2a14e29/tumblr_inline_n4rzc4IKPQ1qfuo5k.gif

MrOilers
15-01-2018, 02:59 PM
And Trumps done what with those wars since coming into power just under a year ago?

(don't forget all the new tension he's brought to the middle east with Israel and the twitter nuclear war he's having with Kim Jong Un... and several other things)


Most ISIS-held territory (including major centers like Raqqa and Mosul) has been liberated. Millions of Syrian people are able to home because it is safe again. Trump help accomplish that while avoiding a hot proxy war against Russia in Syria. Saudi Arabia has taken major steps to jail and freeze assets of billionaires who are major funders of terrorist organizations and Islamic militias. Opium fields in Afghanistan are being bombed so much that the Taliban cannot rely on generating income from selling heroin anymore (which goes directly into buying arms for violent Islamists).

North and South Korea have just had some peaceful talks, and moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is something that Congress and the US Senate have been voting (and encouraging for the better part of the last 20 years).

That is just some of the progress achieved during the Trump presidency off the top of my head.

noodle
15-01-2018, 03:05 PM
You realize this is the economic Trump thread, right?

Edmonton PRT
15-01-2018, 04:00 PM
Bush started the wars and Obama wound them down. Buchanan started the great recession and Obama turned it around and rebuilt the economy, saving GM, Chrysler and many banks that were too big to fail. Guess you forgot that.

Trump did not inherit a mess, it was handed to him like everything else, on a silver platter.

Trump has not done anything of substance except give out corporate handouts.

MrOilers
15-01-2018, 04:20 PM
Bush started the wars and Obama wound them down.

Which war did Obama "wind down"? His terrible decisions completely destabilized Syria and Iraq, and his poor foreign policy decisions (with Hillary as Secreatry of State) destabilized Libya, leading to growth of Africa's slave market and the massive refugee catastrophe flooding out of Africa that is now afflicting Europe.

A lot of the things I dislike about Obama are debatable/disputable, but his awful foreign policy decisions is not one I'll budge on.

Edmonton PRT
15-01-2018, 04:32 PM
The Iraq war was already winding down under Bush and continued under Obama. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_U.S._troops_from_Iraq


So what is the solution you would propose ? . A massive influx of troops in Iraq and invading Syria with 100,000 troops?

Come on, let's get real.

Medwards
15-01-2018, 04:34 PM
MrOilers - Syria was liberated with the efforts Obama made. Trump sure likes claiming success for things he had nothing to do with, but happens to be the president after Obama.

If Trump actually did something, please list what efforts he took to achieve that.

Medwards
15-01-2018, 04:36 PM
Republicans (bush Iraqx2, Afghanistan, Syria as a result of Iraq#2) start wars. Democrats come in clean up the mess, get things sorted out and nearly resolved, and then the next republican president comes in and claims it was all his doing while never doing anything. Classic Trump/Republicans


and the clueless alt-right gobbles up misinformation and MrOilers regurgitates it here.

MrOilers
15-01-2018, 04:43 PM
Democrats come in clean up the mess


:smt042

howie
15-01-2018, 05:32 PM
Build Obama up all you like (and I know you will), but there was no huge difference between his and Dubya's presidencies. Too much money spent and too much involvement in pointless wars in Middle Eastern countries (and, in the process, turning several of them into shitholes).
I don't know if they were turned in any way. I lived in south-eastern Turkey for about a year, and it's a bit of an eye-opener. I have zero desire to ever go back there.

Dave
15-01-2018, 06:00 PM
Build Obama up all you like (and I know you will), but there was no huge difference between his and Dubya's presidencies. Too much money spent and too much involvement in pointless wars in Middle Eastern countries (and, in the process, turning several of them into shitholes).
I don't know if they were turned in any way. I lived in south-eastern Turkey for about a year, and it's a bit of an eye-opener. I have zero desire to ever go back there.

Yes, those countries had many problems before the US got involved. Maybe US involvement failed to solve all their problems, but it is also not responsible for all the problems of these countries.

I think Obama was trying to best manage the huge mess he was left with by the previous Republican administration. He inherited a war in Iraq and a recession among other things. At least the recession ended and he left his successor an economy that was recovering quite well.

I feel sorry for the US President that has to take over after Trump. He has p*ssed of most of the US allies and irritated those countries that do not like the US. I think his motto must be - if its not broken, break it.

Creativemind
15-01-2018, 06:01 PM
MrOilers - Syria was liberated with the efforts Obama made. Trump sure likes claiming success for things he had nothing to do with, but happens to be the president after Obama.

If Trump actually did something, please list what efforts he took to achieve that. From the richest country in Africa to now a slave trade hub liberated ? Wow this site is weird .http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2017/11/migrants-sale-slave-trade-libya-171126063748575.html

kkozoriz
15-01-2018, 08:34 PM
And don't think for a moment that this is an unintended consequence.


GOP tax law a one-two punch to charities — and American giving

For the first time in their lives, millions of middle-class donors will be effectively shut out from claiming any charitable deduction under the GOP’s new tax law. At the same time, the wealthy will get a still larger share of the tax benefit, even when sacrificing a smaller share of their income.


Indeed, the few concessions by tax writers to promote charitable giving are aimed at the very high end of the income scale. The end result is a law that does more to promote gifts to pay for a grandchild’s private schooling than it does to encourage the same grandparents to go outside their family and give to the local Boys & Girls Club.


The unprecedented partisanship of the tax debate in Congress was remarkable in itself. But the negative impact on charitable giving touches something deeper in the American character.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/13/gop-tax-law-charities-giving-339039

Medwards
16-01-2018, 08:43 AM
Democrats come in clean up the mess


:smt042

I knew you'd agree. If you didn't agree, you would write more.

MrOilers
17-01-2018, 09:38 PM
Dow closes above 26,000

Amazing!

kcantor
17-01-2018, 09:42 PM
Dow closes above 26,000

Amazing!
and the sun also rose for the 365th time in the last year.

Edmonton PRT
17-01-2018, 09:44 PM
Changing the subject are we, with the typical "Oh LOOK over here at this shiny destraction" ploy?

MrOilers
18-01-2018, 10:28 AM
Dow closes above 26,000

Amazing!
and the sun also rose for the 365th time in the last year.

But does the Dow close above 26,000 every day, 365 days per year?

Marcel Petrin
18-01-2018, 10:32 AM
Dow closes above 26,000

Amazing!
and the sun also rose for the 365th time in the last year.

But does the Dow close above 26,000 every day, 365 days per year?

Stock markets inevitably rise over time, yes.

MrOilers
18-01-2018, 10:36 AM
It has taken off like a rocket in the last year.

kkozoriz
18-01-2018, 10:38 AM
And it doesn't start a zero with each new president.

kcantor
18-01-2018, 10:46 AM
It has taken off like a rocket in the last year.
just like virtually every major exchange in the world? and, while canada has lagged somewhat in comparison (although still been quite strong), most other major exchanges have outperformed the dow. which I presume will have you counter that the donald’s policies are good for the world. except that’s counter to “make america great again/america first” isn’t it? after all, he can’t take credit for two opposites at the same time. or maybe he - and you - can but that won’t make either one true.

MrOilers
18-01-2018, 10:48 AM
most other major exchanges have outperformed the dow.

Those didn't have 8 years of Obama to correct for.

Medwards
18-01-2018, 10:54 AM
most other major exchanges have outperformed the dow.

Those didn't have 8 years of Obama to correct for.

Maybe you should take a look at the stock market since Obama took office... and compare that to what has continued to happen once Trump took office. Need me to post a graph (again) for you?

Medwards
18-01-2018, 10:55 AM
I know its not fox news, but have a read: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/jan/08/how-trump-obama-compare-stock-market/

Knowing that you wont read it because it's not one of your fake news sites... I'll select a piece you should focus on:


Starting with Trump’s inauguration, the Dow has risen from 19,827.3 to 25,075.1 -- an increase of 26 percent. That’s impressive.
But it’s not as impressive as its performance during the equivalent period under Obama. Under Obama, the Dow increased from 7,949.1 to 10,572 — a rise of 33 percent.

kcantor
18-01-2018, 11:03 AM
most other major exchanges have outperformed the dow.

Those didn't have 8 years of Obama to correct for.
that was a pretty quick - and somewhat predictable - response. but it’s 180 degrees off course in terms of being a credible rebuttal isn’t it? if obama’s policies were so bad for the u.s and so good for the rest of the world that trump needs to turn them upside down, wouldn’t those exchanged have outperformed the dow in those 8 years and lagged since the donald took the reins?

Edmonton PRT
18-01-2018, 11:04 AM
and why was the DOW so far down in the first place before Obama? Need me to explain the answer?

Edmonton PRT
18-01-2018, 11:05 AM
most other major exchanges have outperformed the dow.

Those didn't have 8 years of Obama to correct for.

Maybe you should take a look at the stock market since Obama took office... and compare that to what has continued to happen once Trump took office. Need me to post a graph (again) for you?

No point, you just can't fix stupid.

MrOilers
18-01-2018, 11:08 AM
and why was the DOW so far down in the first place before Obama?

Bush was just like Obama.

Both terrible Presidents.

MrOilers
18-01-2018, 11:10 AM
most other major exchanges have outperformed the dow.

Those didn't have 8 years of Obama to correct for.
that was a pretty quick - and somewhat predictable - response. but it’s 180 degrees off course in terms of being a credible rebuttal isn’t it? if obama’s policies were so bad for the u.s and so good for the rest of the world that trump needs to turn them upside down, wouldn’t those exchanged have outperformed the dow in those 8 years and lagged since the donald took the reins?


We all realize that the USA is such a massive player in the world economy that US wealth creates global wealth (just as a US recession literally triggers wide-scale global recession).

Edmonton PRT
18-01-2018, 11:14 AM
and why was the DOW so far down in the first place before Obama?

Bush was just like Obama.

Both terrible Presidents.

Bush trashed the economy
Obama saved the economy
******** is not fit to clean toilets


Trump "is not fit to clean the toilets in the Barack Obama Presidential Library or to shine the shoes of George W. Bush."
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2017/12/13/usa-today-editorial-board-donald-trump-not-fit-shine-shoes-george-w-bush/947785001/

amazing, the POTUS can say ******** but the term gets struck out when you post ******** comments from a ******** President.

MrOilers
18-01-2018, 11:41 AM
Please. I did not hear a single person anywhere predict that "Obama's economy" would skyrocket in 2017. Not one. Nobody here did, either.

Instead, everyone on the news (and many on this forum) was predicting how the sky would fall and how the economy would tank if Trump got elected.

noodle
18-01-2018, 11:57 AM
It has taken off like a rocket in the last year.

It's the best performance for a Republican, but less than Obama's first year. Or FDR's. Or Johnson's

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dows-gains-in-trumps-first-year-are-best-ever-for-a-republican-but-4th-overall-2017-12-20

Edmonton PRT
18-01-2018, 11:57 AM
^^Really

https://pics.me.me/the-dow-according-to-trump-supporters-24-000-22-000-20-000-18-000-27052409.png
https://www.religiousforums.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fvirtueofselfishinves ting.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Freports%2F2017%2 F4675%2Fhistory_of_market_corrections2-hires.png%3Flink%3Dmktw&hash=e858b54b02c711a0d19aff41f2cc59ca

kcantor
18-01-2018, 12:14 PM
Please. I did not hear a single person anywhere predict that "Obama's economy" would skyrocket in 2017. Not one. Nobody here did, either.

Instead, everyone on the news (and many on this forum) was predicting how the sky would fall and how the economy would tank if Trump got elected.
really? every expert i saw predicted a rise in the stock market after the election regardless of who would have one. that's because the stock market always rises after an election regardless of who wins. the test is never the first year, it's the next four because that's when you start to see the long-term implications of policy changes.

KC
18-01-2018, 12:33 PM
Please. I did not hear a single person anywhere predict that "Obama's economy" would skyrocket in 2017. Not one. Nobody here did, either.

Instead, everyone on the news (and many on this forum) was predicting how the sky would fall and how the economy would tank if Trump got elected.
really? every expert i saw predicted a rise in the stock market after the election regardless of who would have one. that's because the stock market always rises after an election regardless of who wins. the test is never the first year, it's the next four because that's when you start to see the long-term implications of policy changes.

You folks may be comparing apples to oranges, short term vs long term.

I recall most predictions being for an immediate drop if Trump got elected.

I recall that because immediately after the election I’d posted on Seeking Alpha that it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to pile into the market. (I didn’t because I’d been backing for a while by that time out due to the high valuations. I did expect a short term spike. I didn’t expect it to keep rising as it has and as Trump has raised thd propspdvg of massive debt-driven spending. But hey, everyone like tax cuts now vs the future, even if their comparative NPV makes them worse off in time.)


This is what could happen to the stock market if Donald Trump wins

Excerpt:

“Wall Street's long-running view that Hillary Clinton would easily become the next president has been replaced by a new fear that Donald Trump could win, and it probably won't be a pretty picture for stocks if he does.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/02/this-is-what-could-happen-to-the-stock-market-if-donald-trump-wins.html



“Mark Cuban Predicts a Stock Market Crash if Trump Wins the White House“
“Mark Cuban Predicts Stock Market Mayhem if Trump Wins the White House” | Fortune
http://fortune.com/2016/09/07/mark-cuban-criticizes-trump/

Edmonton PRT
18-01-2018, 01:03 PM
The biggest drop since Trump took office is his job approval rating.

On Jan 20th 2017 he was 44.3% positive vs 44.2% negative. A 0.1% margin

On Jan 16th 2018 he is now at 39.3% positive vs 55.8% negative. a -16.5% margin a 16,500% drop

SAD

Medwards
18-01-2018, 01:51 PM
The current number the stock market is at has little to do with the health of the american economy, nor the majority of it's population. It also has little affect on average house income.

I find it amusing that many of trumpsters are parading around like it's so amazing that the stock market has continues to recover since 2008, however they only took wind of it in late 2016, and even more amusing is their complete and utter denial when facts are put out on the matter, but they still want to keep pushing trumps lies and misleading information. What's even better than that is when trumpsters are asked how Trump achieved what they are claiming he achieved, the subject is changed, or a blank stare is given. :D

Edmonton PRT
18-01-2018, 03:58 PM
Meanwhile, over at Carrier...


‘He made promises that he didn’t keep’: Laid-off factory workers feel betrayed by Trump
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/18/factory-workers-trump-jobs-345493


President Donald Trump’s path to becoming “the best jobs president that God ever created” was supposed to run straight through Indianapolis and the Carrier manufacturing plant that had for decades employed thousands of workers there.


Instead, more than a year after the then-president-elect stood before a crowd of cheering workers and trumpeted a deal to save their jobs — and months after the company’s name faded from the headlines and the president himself moved on to other talking points — more than 1,500 once-employed residents are now out of work, Indiana union officials say. More than 200 Carrier employees clocked out of their final shift at the plant just last week.

Trump’s campaign promises to punish companies that move factories overseas, bring back manufacturing jobs and revive the once-thriving Rust Belt sector became a constant refrain that helped him win the Midwest and ultimately the White House in the 2016 election. But they were also pledges he’ll find difficult to keep.


In the year since he took office, the president who once pledged to slap tariffs on trading partners and crack down on China has so far softened or abandoned — at least for now — many of his hard-line stances on trade. Trump has moved instead to cut the corporate tax rate and launch a deregulatory push, heralding a wave of announcements from other companies planning to invest and create new U.S. jobs. The president plans to tout those achievements during a visit Thursday to Pennsylvania.


But those plans offer no comfort for the Steel Valley workers at companies like Carrier that had counted on him to keep their jobs in Indiana.



“The workers that I talk to feel betrayed, because he made promises that he didn’t keep,” said Robert James, president of United Steelworkers Local 1999, which represents workers at firms including Carrier, its parent company United Technologies, Rexnord Corp. and Vertellus — all of which have laid off workers since late 2016.

At Carrier, workers found themselves at the center of the spotlight when Trump brokered a one-off deal between the firm and the state of Indiana that his team used as an example of what he would do as president. “They’re not gonna leave this country, and the workers are gonna keep their jobs,” Trump, then president-elect, said that day in December 2016.


Despite the show at the Carrier plant, the company has eliminated more than 500 jobs since July. And union officials fear that the $7 million Carrier received in state incentives as part of the Trump deal to keep jobs is only going to be invested in automation — ultimately leading to a need for even fewer employees.



“Things are going really well for our economy, a subject the Fake News spends as little time as possible discussing!” Trump tweeted last month, listing accomplishments that included companies returning to the U.S. and a stock market at “another RECORD HIGH.”

A record stock market may demonstrate record profits but the middle class are taking the hit.

noodle
18-01-2018, 04:10 PM
https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/irEC7ow2jF34/v2/800x-1.png


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-15/how-america-s-inequality-machine-is-firing-the-dow-into-orbit

Edmonton PRT
18-01-2018, 04:23 PM
More from your source

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iRe8V3g0ecWc/v1/1000x-1.png

MrOilers
19-01-2018, 09:32 AM
That graph really shows how things changed under the Reagan, Clinton, Bush, and Obama presidencies

Edmonton PRT
19-01-2018, 09:52 AM
Yeah, how the bottom 90% gained under Obama and even Clinton, reversing the trends of the trickle down Presidents, Reagan, Bush I & II.

MrOilers
19-01-2018, 10:42 AM
Yeah, how the bottom 90% gained under Obama and even Clinton

How come you don't attribute it to the presidents that came before Clinton (Bush I), and before Obama (Bush II)?

noodle
19-01-2018, 10:46 AM
How come you don't attribute it to the presidents that came before Clinton (Bush I), and before Obama (Bush II)?

Because he can read a graph? See how things got worse 2001-2007? That's Bush II territory. See how it got worse between 82-90? That's Reagan & Bush.

noodle
19-01-2018, 11:34 AM
In bizarre reversal under Trump, consumer agency reveals moves to protect payday lenders

In what would be a laughable move if it wasn’t so incredibly tragic, the Trump administration’s newly emasculated Consumer Financial Protection Bureau this week sided with payday lenders over consumers.You heard right. The CFPB, now led by an appointee of a businessman-politician whose companies have gone bankrupt a half-dozen times, has decided to back off from a planned crackdown on one of the financial sector’s most blood-sucking industries.


http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-cfpb-payday-lenders-20180119-story.html

I'm sure one of the Trumpeteers will be along shortly to let us know why this is good for the average American.

kkozoriz
19-01-2018, 11:50 AM
If this guy were Muslim, Trump would be sending up a tweetstorm about terrorism.


Bystanders tackle knife-carrying Tucson man after he assaults Muslim women outside of Starbucks

A Tucson man has been taken into custody after he yelled racist slurs and attacked a group of Muslim women sitting outside of a Starbucks — only to be tackled by bystanders as he attempted to flee.


According to TucsonNewsNow, 44-year-old Manuel Lewis was arrested on Sunday, Jan. 14, around 9 p.m after confronting the women on the coffee shop patio, yelling slurs at them and then flipping over their table before bolting.

http://www.rawstory.com/2018/01/bystanders-tackle-knife-carrying-tucson-man-after-he-assaults-muslim-women-outside-of-starbucks/

MrOilers
22-01-2018, 09:20 AM
The Republican Rally
New reason to believe the GOP can hold the House.

"The reason there is more room for improvement in Republican political fortunes is that according to the New York Times, most survey respondents still don’t believe they’re getting a tax cut. In fact, almost all of them are. As this reality becomes manifest in paychecks this winter, there’s no reason to think the signature Republican legislative achievement of the 115th Congress won’t become even more popular.

As for the President who signed that legislation into law, ratings on a critical question are already on the rise. Mr. Trump remains underwater on the general question of his handling of the presidency, with a majority in virtually every poll expressing disapproval. But he is showing increasing strength on the issue of the economy, which just happens to be the issue that frequently decides elections."



https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-republican-rally-1516399468?shareToken=st7e7256efe3854193a21609a445 eb51e7&reflink=article_email_share


It's going to be tough for people to vote AGAINST the Republicans and against trump when more people are working and also taking home more money because of tax cuts working in their favor. It's the same reason Reagan kept gaining popularity through the 80s.

Medwards
22-01-2018, 09:55 AM
and yet, some how, despite all the glaring logic by MrOilers and Murdoch and co, Trumps support takes another tumble this week to the lowest yet!

KC
22-01-2018, 10:04 AM
MrOilers, do you have an ideological position on whether governments should take on a lot of debt, and if so, then when is that ok?

kcantor
22-01-2018, 10:52 AM
The Republican Rally
New reason to believe the GOP can hold the House.

"The reason there is more room for improvement in Republican political fortunes is that according to the New York Times, most survey respondents still don’t believe they’re getting a tax cut. In fact, almost all of them are. As this reality becomes manifest in paychecks this winter, there’s no reason to think the signature Republican legislative achievement of the 115th Congress won’t become even more popular.

As for the President who signed that legislation into law, ratings on a critical question are already on the rise. Mr. Trump remains underwater on the general question of his handling of the presidency, with a majority in virtually every poll expressing disapproval. But he is showing increasing strength on the issue of the economy, which just happens to be the issue that frequently decides elections."



https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-republican-rally-1516399468?shareToken=st7e7256efe3854193a21609a445 eb51e7&reflink=article_email_share


It's going to be tough for people to vote AGAINST the Republicans and against trump when more people are working and also taking home more money because of tax cuts working in their favor. It's the same reason Reagan kept gaining popularity through the 80s.
so you honestly believe that a vote can be bought for 3 dollars and 12 cents biweekly (or whatever the temporary cut is for the average voter?)?

and do you honestly believe the average voter won’t compare his/her tax cut to his/her lost or more expensive health care costs?

and do you honestly believe those still unemployed/underemployed who won’t get a tax cut because they aren’t paying taxes won’t vote accordingly?

Medwards
22-01-2018, 11:16 AM
The Republican Rally
New reason to believe the GOP can hold the House.

"The reason there is more room for improvement in Republican political fortunes is that according to the New York Times, most survey respondents still don’t believe they’re getting a tax cut. In fact, almost all of them are. As this reality becomes manifest in paychecks this winter, there’s no reason to think the signature Republican legislative achievement of the 115th Congress won’t become even more popular.

As for the President who signed that legislation into law, ratings on a critical question are already on the rise. Mr. Trump remains underwater on the general question of his handling of the presidency, with a majority in virtually every poll expressing disapproval. But he is showing increasing strength on the issue of the economy, which just happens to be the issue that frequently decides elections."



https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-republican-rally-1516399468?shareToken=st7e7256efe3854193a21609a445 eb51e7&reflink=article_email_share


It's going to be tough for people to vote AGAINST the Republicans and against trump when more people are working and also taking home more money because of tax cuts working in their favor. It's the same reason Reagan kept gaining popularity through the 80s.
so you honestly believe that a vote can be bought for 3 dollars and 12 cents biweekly (or whatever the temporary cut is for the average voter?)?

and do you honestly believe the average voter won’t compare his/her tax cut to his/her lost or more expensive health care costs?

and do you honestly believe those still unemployed/underemployed who won’t get a tax cut because they aren’t paying taxes won’t vote accordingly?

Ken, If Trump tells his base what he wants them to believe, they are going to believe it, despite facts being presented that offer a 'different' truth. MrOilers falls for it every time Trump speaks.

(I hope you are okay with me using your real first name... don't want to upset Admin again)

kkozoriz
22-01-2018, 11:23 AM
The Republican Rally
New reason to believe the GOP can hold the House.

"The reason there is more room for improvement in Republican political fortunes is that according to the New York Times, most survey respondents still don’t believe they’re getting a tax cut. In fact, almost all of them are. As this reality becomes manifest in paychecks this winter, there’s no reason to think the signature Republican legislative achievement of the 115th Congress won’t become even more popular.

As for the President who signed that legislation into law, ratings on a critical question are already on the rise. Mr. Trump remains underwater on the general question of his handling of the presidency, with a majority in virtually every poll expressing disapproval. But he is showing increasing strength on the issue of the economy, which just happens to be the issue that frequently decides elections."



https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-republican-rally-1516399468?shareToken=st7e7256efe3854193a21609a445 eb51e7&reflink=article_email_share


It's going to be tough for people to vote AGAINST the Republicans and against trump when more people are working and also taking home more money because of tax cuts working in their favor. It's the same reason Reagan kept gaining popularity through the 80s.
so you honestly believe that a vote can be bought for 3 dollars and 12 cents biweekly (or whatever the temporary cut is for the average voter?)?

and do you honestly believe the average voter won’t compare his/her tax cut to his/her lost or more expensive health care costs?

and do you honestly believe those still unemployed/underemployed who won’t get a tax cut because they aren’t paying taxes won’t vote accordingly?


Why not? It worked with Ralph Bucks

MrOilers
22-01-2018, 12:03 PM
The Republican Rally
New reason to believe the GOP can hold the House.

"The reason there is more room for improvement in Republican political fortunes is that according to the New York Times, most survey respondents still don’t believe they’re getting a tax cut. In fact, almost all of them are. As this reality becomes manifest in paychecks this winter, there’s no reason to think the signature Republican legislative achievement of the 115th Congress won’t become even more popular.

As for the President who signed that legislation into law, ratings on a critical question are already on the rise. Mr. Trump remains underwater on the general question of his handling of the presidency, with a majority in virtually every poll expressing disapproval. But he is showing increasing strength on the issue of the economy, which just happens to be the issue that frequently decides elections."



https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-republican-rally-1516399468?shareToken=st7e7256efe3854193a21609a445 eb51e7&reflink=article_email_share


It's going to be tough for people to vote AGAINST the Republicans and against trump when more people are working and also taking home more money because of tax cuts working in their favor. It's the same reason Reagan kept gaining popularity through the 80s.
so you honestly believe that a vote can be bought for 3 dollars and 12 cents biweekly (or whatever the temporary cut is for the average voter?)?

and do you honestly believe the average voter won’t compare his/her tax cut to his/her lost or more expensive health care costs?

and do you honestly believe those still unemployed/underemployed who won’t get a tax cut because they aren’t paying taxes won’t vote accordingly?


According to this writer at the Wall Street Journal, the answer is "yes".

Edmonton PRT
22-01-2018, 12:05 PM
I thought you said many time that the Wall Street Journal is BIASED FAKE NEWS.

Changing horses when it suits you?

Medwards
22-01-2018, 12:19 PM
no, the washington post is fake news according to Trump/MrTroilers.

Wall Street Journal is owned by _____ who also owns ____ ____, who meets weekly to discuss what propaganda to deploy this week.

MrOilers
22-01-2018, 12:22 PM
I thought you said many time that the Wall Street Journal is BIASED FAKE NEWS.


You are confusing grandpa's newspaper (WSJ) with Jeff Bezos' Amazon Washington Post.

noodle
22-01-2018, 01:19 PM
So the WP can't be trusted because it's owned Jeff Bezos, but the WSJ can be, even though it's owned by Rupert Murdoch who controls Fox News (the network that leaves you less informed than watching nothing) and a host of infamous trash papers in the UK?

Interesting double standard & blinders you've got going on there.

Dave
22-01-2018, 02:41 PM
The Republican Rally
New reason to believe the GOP can hold the House.

"The reason there is more room for improvement in Republican political fortunes is that according to the New York Times, most survey respondents still don’t believe they’re getting a tax cut. In fact, almost all of them are. As this reality becomes manifest in paychecks this winter, there’s no reason to think the signature Republican legislative achievement of the 115th Congress won’t become even more popular.

As for the President who signed that legislation into law, ratings on a critical question are already on the rise. Mr. Trump remains underwater on the general question of his handling of the presidency, with a majority in virtually every poll expressing disapproval. But he is showing increasing strength on the issue of the economy, which just happens to be the issue that frequently decides elections."



https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-republican-rally-1516399468?shareToken=st7e7256efe3854193a21609a445 eb51e7&reflink=article_email_share


It's going to be tough for people to vote AGAINST the Republicans and against trump when more people are working and also taking home more money because of tax cuts working in their favor. It's the same reason Reagan kept gaining popularity through the 80s.
so you honestly believe that a vote can be bought for 3 dollars and 12 cents biweekly (or whatever the temporary cut is for the average voter?)?

and do you honestly believe the average voter won’t compare his/her tax cut to his/her lost or more expensive health care costs?

and do you honestly believe those still unemployed/underemployed who won’t get a tax cut because they aren’t paying taxes won’t vote accordingly?

Why not? It worked with Ralph Bucks

Well, sort of. Didn't he get "retired" shortly after that?

At least Ralph was very lucky with economic cycles, he came in when things were on the upswing (end of the early 1990's recession) and left before the 2008 recession. With the US economic recovery being quite long in the tooth, Trump better hope a downturn doesn't happen in his last two years in office.

Edmonton PRT
22-01-2018, 02:56 PM
Last two years in office???

He will spend those in the Robert Mueller Grey Bar Hotel

noodle
22-01-2018, 02:58 PM
With the US economic recovery being quite long in the tooth, Trump better hope a downturn doesn't happen in his last two years in office.

Given that they're now doing to the US writ large what was tried & failed in Kansas, I'd say a downturn is imminent & of the GOP's own devising.

MrOilers
22-01-2018, 05:19 PM
So the WP can't be trusted because it's owned Jeff Bezos, but the WSJ can be

I look at everything with a skeptical eye, but I don't trust the Washington Post at all.

Medwards
22-01-2018, 05:40 PM
Thats rich coming the guy quoting breitbart

kcantor
22-01-2018, 06:35 PM
Ken, If Trump tells his base what he wants them to believe, they are going to believe it, despite facts being presented that offer a 'different' truth. MrOilers falls for it every time Trump speaks.

(I hope you are okay with me using your real first name... don't want to upset Admin again)not to worry - i’ve been called/addressed by far greater insults than my own first name... :)

East McCauley
22-01-2018, 07:05 PM
Rather predictable that a 40% corporate tax cut (from a top 35% rate to a top 21% rate) will be good for increasing shareholder value and thereby US stock markets. Especially for the 30 blue chip stocks that comprise the Dow Jones Index where companies get replaced if they under-perform relative to other up and coming companies.

What I plan to follow in the coming months is the monthly US government budget reviews published by the Congressional Budget Office:

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/53443

How much are the Republican tax cuts (personal as well as corporate) going to add to the already massive US federal government budget deficit and accumulated debt? Will the US dollars' status as a reserve currency continue to make this deficit and debt immune to the political and economic fall-out that any other country with such a big and growing hole in its federal government finances would incur?

Edmonton PRT
22-01-2018, 07:32 PM
Funny how the US nation debt broke the $20 trillion dollar mark under Trump and the media did not cover it


Must be a deep green state conspiracy

kkozoriz
22-01-2018, 09:19 PM
I'm sure all those thousands of solar installers could find jobs mining coal, right?


President Trump Slaps Tariffs on Solar Panels in Major Blow to Renewable Energy

In the biggest blow he’s dealt to the renewable energy industry yet, President Donald Trump decided on Monday to slap tariffs on imported solar panels.


The U.S. will impose duties of as much as 30 percent on solar equipment made abroad, a move that threatens to handicap a $28 billion industry that relies on parts made abroad for 80 percent of its supply. Just the mere threat of tariffs has shaken solar developers in recent months, with some hoarding panels and others stalling projects in anticipation of higher costs. The Solar Energy Industries Association has projected tens of thousands of job losses in a sector that employed 260,000.

http://time.com/5113472/donald-trump-solar-panel-tariff/

Edmonton PRT
22-01-2018, 09:23 PM
The ******** President is just mad because Santa gave him a lump of coal

MrOilers
23-01-2018, 11:54 AM
Trump's 30% tariff on imported solar tech will be a gain for Tesla and other American manufacturers.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/01/trump-puts-30-tariff-on-imported-solar-cells-and-modules/

Marcel Petrin
23-01-2018, 12:05 PM
And will likely cost tens of thousands of jobs in the solar installer industry. Strange how you don't quote that:


In a statement, the SEIA said, "The decision effectively will cause the loss of roughly 23,000 American jobs this year, including many in manufacturing, and it will result in the delay or cancellation of billions of dollars in solar investments."

kkozoriz
27-01-2018, 11:53 AM
A sample.


A Partial List of Companies That Definitely Could Have Afforded to Pay Their Employees a Good Wage at Any Point Before the GOP Tax Bill

AT&T
The headline: In December, the telecom giant announced it will give 200,000 employees a $1,000 bonus, supposedly as a result of the GOP tax bill:


In a statement, AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson hailed “Congress, working with the President” for taking a “monumental step” that will “create good-paying jobs.”


The fine print: AT&T is in the process of trying to acquire Time Warner in an $85 billion merger. Last November, the Department of Justice’s antitrust division sued AT&T to block the merger. Stephenson’s praise for the GOP tax bill one month after the feds blocked his company’s mega-merger smacks of corporate brown-nosing.


Stephenson is one of the highest-paid CEOs in the country. In 2016, he took in $28.4 million in corporate salary—a 13 percent pay bump from the prior year. By comparison, a senior customer service representative at AT&T makes an average annual salary of $22,900, according to Payscale. AT&T’s CEO makes 1240 times more per year than an AT&T customer service representative.


But sure, this multi-billion company couldn’t have afforded to give their employees a livable wage without the GOP’s tax cut.

https://splinternews.com/a-partial-list-of-companies-that-definitely-could-have-1822372762

kkozoriz
28-01-2018, 02:22 PM
So much winning! Just wait until other countries start "protecting" their industries from american manufacturers. Watch Trump and company start screaming when American exports start tanking.


TRUMP HURTING SOLAR POWER INDUSTRY GROWTH? COMPANY PUTS JOB EXPANSION ON HOLD AFTER TARIFF ANNOUNCEMENT

American energy company Sun Power announced that it would postpone its $20 million U.S. factory expansion project in the wake of the Trump administration’s decision this week to place tariffs on imported solar panels.


Officials for the U.S. based company are demanding an exception from the 30 percent tariff imposed this week so they can continue to grow the company in California and Texas while relying on manufacturing locations in the Philippines and Mexico. The Trump administration move comes as part of an effort to protect American manufacturers and jobs from foreign competitors.

http://www.newsweek.com/solar-power-company-puts-expansion-hold-due-trump-tariffs-793039

Edmonton PRT
28-01-2018, 02:42 PM
Flip-flop ******** President make U-Turn on Paris Agreement

Donald Trump says US could re-enter Paris climate deal
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/28/donald-trump-says-us-could-re-enter-paris-climate-deal-itv-interview



Trump Says Ice Caps `Setting Records' as He Mulls Climate Accord
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-28/trump-hints-he-d-be-open-to-remaining-in-paris-climate-pact

kkozoriz
28-01-2018, 02:56 PM
Again, he's right. The ice caps are setting records. Just not the way that he thinks.


Baked Alaska and 2017 in review

Arctic sea ice extent in December 2017 was below average in both the far northern Atlantic and the Bering Sea, and notably high temperatures prevailed over most of the Arctic, especially over Central Alaska. We look back at the year’s events, and examine Arctic sea ice trends since 1850 based on a new compilation of data from maps, ship reports, and other records.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/



NSIDC is part of the University of Colorado Boulder Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences (CIRES), and is affiliated with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) National Geophysical Data Center through a cooperative agreement. NSIDC serves as one of twelve Distributed Active Archive Centers funded by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration to archive and distribute data from NASA's past and current satellites and field measurement programs. NSIDC also supports the National Science Foundation through the Exchange For Local Observations and Knowledge of the Arctic (ELOKA) and other scientific research grants. NSIDC is also a member of the ICSU World Data System. Mark Serreze is the director of NSIDC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Snow_and_Ice_Data_Center

MrOilers
29-01-2018, 07:37 AM
Flip-flop ******** President make U-Turn on Paris Agreement

Donald Trump says US could re-enter Paris climate deal
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/28/donald-trump-says-us-could-re-enter-paris-climate-deal-itv-interview



Being open to the possibility to renegotiate an agreement is a good thing.

That is not a flip-flop.

KC
29-01-2018, 07:42 AM
Flip-flop ******** President make U-Turn on Paris Agreement

Donald Trump says US could re-enter Paris climate deal
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/28/donald-trump-says-us-could-re-enter-paris-climate-deal-itv-interview



Being open to the possibility to renegotiate an agreement is a good thing.

That is not a flip-flop.

Yeah I think he said it was based on a hoax but later he said he’d consider a new agreement.

He’s shown the world again how fickle and untrustworthy democracies are in terms of any long term deals.

Edmonton PRT
29-01-2018, 07:49 AM
Flip-flop ******** President make U-Turn on Paris Agreement

Donald Trump says US could re-enter Paris climate deal
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/28/donald-trump-says-us-could-re-enter-paris-climate-deal-itv-interview



Being open to the possibility to renegotiate an agreement is a good thing.

That is not a flip-flop.

Actions speak louder than words

Opening drilling in the arctic, deregulating EPA standards and promoting dirty coal production are counter to the reducing CO2 production, deal or no deal.

What is going to renegotiate? Lowering the bar on targets and taking out penalties for underperforming in meeting those low goals? Why do you trust anything that the charlatan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan) says?

He the the flip-flop King.

Overall, he is a complete flop.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan

The charlatan is usually a salesperson of a certain service or product, who does not try to create a personal relationship with his "marks" or set up an elaborate hoax using roleplaying. Rather, the person called a charlatan is being accused of resorting to quackery, pseudoscience, or some knowingly employed bogus means of impressing people in order to swindle his victims by selling them worthless nostrums and similar goods or services that will not deliver on the promises made for them. One example of a charlatan is a 19th-century medicine show operator, who has long since left town by the time the people who bought his "snake oil" or similarly named "cure-all" tonic realize that it does not perform as advertised.

kkozoriz
30-01-2018, 01:00 PM
Trump and the GOP basically used Kansas as a model for their budget cuts.


Outgoing Tea Party Gov. decries underfunded hospitals and prisons that he spent 7 years running into the ground

“You’ve got these state assets that we haven’t put any money into for years,” he said.


Kansas’s state budget was in disarray for years after Brownback and the Kansas legislature slashed taxes starting in 2012, as revenue for the state routinely fell well short of projections. This has led the government to make several unpopular budget cuts, including cuts to higher education, that led even Republicans in the state willing to roll back some of the Brownback tax cuts.

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/01/outgoing-tea-party-gov-decries-underfunded-hospitals-prisons-spent-7-years-running-ground/

KC
30-01-2018, 09:23 PM
I’m waiting for the smart money to say that all the good news (for stocks) is out, it’s all priced into the market, the interest rate and low inflation rate bonanza have run their course, tax cuts are now built into the prices and so, it’s time to take their money off the table.

If that happens I wonder what the Republican spin will be as markets tumble.

kkozoriz
31-01-2018, 02:11 AM
It's Obama's fault.

H.L.
31-01-2018, 08:03 AM
It won't tumble, no matter how much you wish

Marcel Petrin
31-01-2018, 09:13 AM
It won't tumble, no matter how much you wish

There's almost certainly going to be a stock market correction at some point in his first term. A correction being a broad based decline of 10-15%. These happen with regularity every 3-4 years, if not more often, and the last one I believe was early 2015. And there's a strong possibility we'll see an actual bear market as well (20-40% decline), given that we're at the tail end of a 8-9 year bull market, and the business cycle tends to be about 5-8 years. We're overdue, really. None of that really has anything to do with Trump for good or ill.