PDA

View Full Version : Flying back from van....more people talking about Edmonton



IanO
15-01-2007, 12:00 PM
Sitting in row 1 on a westjet flight i had the pleasure of overhearing the 2 westjet "ladies" talking about their funtimes working for westjet. So...here is what i hear next:

"Edmonton again hey...at least we dont have to stay today, boy i find this place terrible"

"Yeah im from calgary and the only times i come up here are for WEM and family....but it is so ugly and quiet, i dont know how it became the capital city, calgary is booming and has banff nearby etc."

"Yeah Edmonton is like regina, im from saskatoon and it is a gorgous city and i find it similar to calgary, whereas edmonton has a regina ugly feel"

"Edmonton is just so cold and dirty and nothing to do. Calgary is friendlier, has the stampede, and the mountains....i dont think Edmonton has much to do other than the river valley for walking or WEM"




Sure it is small talk, but GOOD GOD i am sick and tired of hearing things like this about our city.

need coffee, decaf perhaps.

53latitude
15-01-2007, 12:09 PM
yes I think many of us are tired of it. I do have to say we do have certian things we can improve on. I think Edmonton doesn't realise that it has to act like a city of the north. meaning, they copy blueprints of cities that do not have cold whether issues (ie transit and sidewalks). Just walking from the bus to the LRT today I almost fell because the side walks are icy and snow covered. And why the hell don't we have more indoor heated transit areas? I am so tired of freezing and slipping all the time. What is the city doing about simple things like that? Maybe those simple things are why we have a bad rep?!

ED1
15-01-2007, 12:19 PM
"Edmonton again hey...at least we dont have to stay today, boy i find this place terrible"

"Yeah im from calgary and the only times i come up here are for WEM and family....but it is so ugly and quiet, i dont know how it became the capital city, calgary is booming and has banff nearby etc."

"Yeah Edmonton is like regina, im from saskatoon and it is a gorgous city and i find it similar to calgary, whereas edmonton has a regina ugly feel"

"Edmonton is just so cold and dirty and nothing to do. Calgary is friendlier, has the stampede, and the mountains....i dont think Edmonton has much to do other than the river valley for walking or WEM"

I say the exact same thing about Calgary... to Calgarians! :D

Chump
15-01-2007, 12:27 PM
I live in Saskatoon and it is much more similar to Edmonton than Calgary. That particular comment was simply wrong, period.

There's a big article in today's paper here about Sask ex-pats and the drive to bring them back, now that things are actually going quite well here economy wise, thank you very much....and there are some rather unflattering things said about Calgary in the article.

"i dont know how it became the capital city, calgary is booming and has banff nearby etc." :lol: How old were these two??

Titanium48
15-01-2007, 12:30 PM
Edmonton ugly relative to Calgary? These people must be talking about the view from the air looking west. Otherwise the two cities look pretty much the same, except that most common landscape color in Calgary is brown.

Doug
15-01-2007, 12:38 PM
I heard a similiar conversation on Westjet a couple of years ago. I'm not sure how we change the image. Unfortunately we are a northern city and some things, like the climate, are out of our control. I think it is unfar to say we are an ugly city but we don't have scenery like the mountains and the ocean. We are a city that you have to spend time in and get to know before you can appreciate what we have to offer.

Chump
15-01-2007, 01:13 PM
I heard a similiar conversation on Westjet a couple of years ago. I'm not sure how we change the image. Unfortunately we are a northern city and some things, like the climate, are out of our control. I think it is unfar to say we are an ugly city but we don't have scenery like the mountains and the ocean. We are a city that you have to spend time in and get to know before you can appreciate what we have to offer.

yup

Regarding the image, a heavy tourism advertising push focusing on green spaces and festivals would help, IMHO (in other words if you got it, flaunt it).

Glenco
15-01-2007, 01:29 PM
Typical Calgary rant. I lived there for nine years and heard it all. They are like a bunch of trained seals. The woman from Saskatoon caught on quickly. Saskatoon has absolutely nothing in common with Calgary. Nothing. Zero. She is just repeating the Calgary corporate chant. It is like brain washing.

RichardS
15-01-2007, 01:51 PM
I live in Saskatoon and it is much more similar to Edmonton than Calgary. That particular comment was simply wrong, period.



No kidding. She must not be from Saskatoon, or never ever ever opened her eyes while she lived there. The Toon is a good place...but a lot more like Edmonton.

DebraW
15-01-2007, 01:56 PM
Sitting in row 1 on a westjet flight i had the pleasure of overhearing the 2 westjet "ladies" talking about their funtimes working for westjet. So...here is what i hear next:

"Edmonton again hey...at least we dont have to stay today, boy i find this place terrible"

"Yeah im from calgary and the only times i come up here are for WEM and family....but it is so ugly and quiet, i dont know how it became the capital city, calgary is booming and has banff nearby etc."

"Yeah Edmonton is like regina, im from saskatoon and it is a gorgous city and i find it similar to calgary, whereas edmonton has a regina ugly feel"

"Edmonton is just so cold and dirty and nothing to do. Calgary is friendlier, has the stampede, and the mountains....i dont think Edmonton has much to do other than the river valley for walking or WEM"

Sure it is small talk, but GOOD GOD i am sick and tired of hearing things like this about our city.

need coffee, decaf perhaps.

Okay, IanO where were you on my Westjet flight? I too was returning from Vancouver and heard the same conversation from the front from two lovely Westjet attendants.

Thought it was extremely rude (especially considering the fact that the flight was Going to Edmonton.)

Seriously, do you think this is like the other canned hokey Westjet spiel?

No excuse and so not true! :evil:

IanO
15-01-2007, 02:07 PM
Sitting in row 1 on a westjet flight i had the pleasure of overhearing the 2 westjet "ladies" talking about their funtimes working for westjet. So...here is what i hear next:

"Edmonton again hey...at least we dont have to stay today, boy i find this place terrible"

"Yeah im from calgary and the only times i come up here are for WEM and family....but it is so ugly and quiet, i dont know how it became the capital city, calgary is booming and has banff nearby etc."

"Yeah Edmonton is like regina, im from saskatoon and it is a gorgous city and i find it similar to calgary, whereas edmonton has a regina ugly feel"

"Edmonton is just so cold and dirty and nothing to do. Calgary is friendlier, has the stampede, and the mountains....i dont think Edmonton has much to do other than the river valley for walking or WEM"

Sure it is small talk, but GOOD GOD i am sick and tired of hearing things like this about our city.

need coffee, decaf perhaps.

Okay, IanO where were you on my Westjet flight? I too was returning from Vancouver and heard the same conversation from the front from two lovely Westjet attendants.

Thought it was extremely rude (especially considering the fact that the flight was Going to Edmonton.)

Seriously, do you think this is like the other canned hokey Westjet spiel?

No excuse and so not true! :evil:

today 7am leaving?

DebraW
15-01-2007, 02:19 PM
today 7am leaving?

Scary, last Thursday 0900 leaving YVR to YEG. Literally what you quote is verbatium.

Last night, YEG to Kelowna 17:00 same sort of conversation...

IanO
15-01-2007, 02:25 PM
today 7am leaving?

Scary, last Thursday 0900 leaving YVR to YEG. Literally what you quote is verbatium.

Last night, YEG to Kelowna 17:00 same sort of conversation...


oh i believe it...im pretty sure anytime you need small talk to slag a city ______________ = Edmonton

Rseven
15-01-2007, 02:35 PM
Living in Calgary the last twenty years I hear this crap all the time, but its always from people born and raised in Calgary. The many people I have been friends with and worked with who came here from other parts of the country never bash Edmonton. In fact, there is even a local AM radio station in Calgary which before each set of songs belts out, get this, "live from Canada's greatest city this is 66CFR!!" They truly are full of themselves!

chupa
15-01-2007, 03:33 PM
Wow,these girls sound like they are 5 and 6 respectively.Both from Calgary obviously...And both brainwashed,way to go Calgary!!!There are many Westjet flight attendants from Edmonton aswell,hmmmm wonder what they talk about???This stuff goes to demonstrate that what ever it is that Calgary is teaching its people,its just making them look like a city full of small,very immature people...Both cities are the same with the exception of Edmonton not having the mountains in our back yard.The number of attractions may actually be larger than Calgarys infact.Cant expect much from people who move to Cowtown from Nipawin Saskatchewan for there first big city expirience.Both have problay never been to Edmonton past the airport or there crew hotel in Nisku.Sad,very sad....

Sonic Death Monkey
15-01-2007, 03:53 PM
Typical Calgary rant. I lived there for nine years and heard it all. They are like a bunch of trained seals. The woman from Saskatoon caught on quickly. Saskatoon has absolutely nothing in common with Calgary. Nothing. Zero. She is just repeating the Calgary corporate chant. It is like brain washing.
We are Borg, you shall be assimilated.

RichardS
15-01-2007, 04:04 PM
.Both have problay never been to Edmonton past the airport or there crew hotel in Nisku.Sad,very sad....

Therein lies an issue. Many layovers have crews in the Nisku Inn et al...hardly a rockin place for travellers who can see other cities.

Sonic Death Monkey
15-01-2007, 04:17 PM
Therein lies an issue. Many layovers have crews in the Nisku Inn et al...hardly a rockin place for travellers who can see other cities.
Good point. Not a great impression of our city if stewardesses are forced to bunk with biker gangs. When is that YEG hotel being built again?

Topher
15-01-2007, 04:36 PM
kind of a pity that people actually have the nerve to bash edmonton, if we're so ugly then explain why we were the city with the most "boom" in the last 2-3 years? rah rah calgary my foot. im very surprised at that attitude from westjet as they seem very pleasant and enjoyable but then again that makes it sound like a red-eye coast to coast flight on air canada. although air canada HAS improved significantly lately.

sure calgary might have a better road system and they have ONE widely recognised festival, whilst edmonton has oh how many? thats right TOO MANY TO COUNT!!! oh yeah and another thing calgary lacks.....ever seen a real tree in calgary? sure you can see the mountains but whoop de doo, so we have to drive 3 or 4 hours whats your point?

not to bash saskatchewan but if anyone wants to call saskatoon or regina better than edmonton, you obviously havent been to edmonton or if you have or perhaps you've missed the turnoff.

IanO
15-01-2007, 04:39 PM
i didnt intend this to become "yah but cal or sask that".....calgary is a nice city as is saskatoon, but Edmonton NEEDS to get a more positive image out there.

Caesar555
15-01-2007, 05:50 PM
Sitting in row 1 on a westjet flight i had the pleasure of overhearing the 2 westjet "ladies" talking about their funtimes working for westjet. So...here is what i hear next:

"Edmonton again hey...at least we dont have to stay today, boy i find this place terrible"

"Yeah im from calgary and the only times i come up here are for WEM and family....but it is so ugly and quiet, i dont know how it became the capital city, calgary is booming and has banff nearby etc."

"Yeah Edmonton is like regina, im from saskatoon and it is a gorgous city and i find it similar to calgary, whereas edmonton has a regina ugly feel"

"Edmonton is just so cold and dirty and nothing to do. Calgary is friendlier, has the stampede, and the mountains....i dont think Edmonton has much to do other than the river valley for walking or WEM"




Sure it is small talk, but GOOD GOD i am sick and tired of hearing things like this about our city.

need coffee, decaf perhaps.

If one were bold enough (not that I am), this would be an opportunity to turn around and ask what these girls like to do. Suggestions could be made accordingly.
If they do stay at the Nisku Inn, I would not blame them for their negative attitude. A little education about the things that they could do in Edmonton could turn their opinion right around. Then these girls would have a positive experience about Edmonton and spread the word.

"There was this guy, who was like so friendly, and like told us what we should do in Edmonton, and like, we had, like, a totally great time! I totally didn't know Edmonton was so great!"

Or you could tell them off and say that their uniforms make them look fat.
Whatever works.

RichardS
15-01-2007, 05:55 PM
i didnt intend this to become "yah but cal or sask that".....calgary is a nice city as is saskatoon, but Edmonton NEEDS to get a more positive image out there.

Yes, it does, but the silliness cannot be stopped if even teh folks on airlines cannot take 5 minutes on a layover and look at the town...

RichardS
15-01-2007, 05:57 PM
[Suggestions could be made accordingly.


Been there, done that...but if they have no desire to go anywhere, it sucks...

HR folks at my work have been pleasently surprised when I take them around.

chupa
15-01-2007, 06:36 PM
As most of you know I work for a FBO at YEG,when we get the corporate jet crews into our place we usually give them a list of suggestions of things to do.We had a group of 14 russians in the summer that we sent to the mall,the grand prix,and to various resturants for food.They all seemed pretty happy with the end result and the captain of the cargo aircraft said he didnt want to leave...I more recently sent some americans to various places while on their 4 day stay,again very impressed...And they had just spent 2 days in Calgary...So you can sit around a talk about what we are missing,or you can talk about the great city we live in.Its upto you.

DebraW
15-01-2007, 07:04 PM
If one were bold enough (not that I am), this would be an opportunity to turn around and ask what these girls like to do. Suggestions could be made accordingly.
If they do stay at the Nisku Inn, I would not blame them for their negative attitude. A little education about the things that they could do in Edmonton could turn their opinion right around. Then these girls would have a positive experience about Edmonton and spread the word.

"There was this guy, who was like so friendly, and like told us what we should do in Edmonton, and like, we had, like, a totally great time! I totally didn't know Edmonton was so great!"
.

I tried to draw them out but they were not interested in changing their closed minds, which surprised me for Westjet attendants, as they are usually very different from "scare" Canada.

I only fly Westjet and I HAVE been to the 'Toon', Regina, 'Peg , Calgary (Vancouver…I have been everywhere…) in the last few months and all are wonderful in their own way.... I tired of having to "defend" Edmonton from those who would attempt to slag it.

JayBee
15-01-2007, 07:14 PM
A little education about the things that they could do in Edmonton could turn their opinion right around. Then these girls would have a positive experience about Edmonton and spread the word.

"There was this guy, who was like so friendly, and like told us what we should do in Edmonton, and like, we had, like, a totally great time! I totally didn't know Edmonton was so great!"

I tried that with a Calgarian girl I was seeing one summer in Banff, but she outright refused not even to visit Edmonton, but also to believe that it could be good in any way, even though she'd never even been there. Needless to say that didn't last another week. (Toronto girls are more open minded, I discovered...)


Or you could tell them off and say that their uniforms make them look fat.

Hmmmmn. :? Does that work?

---

Like I was saying in the thread about Bill Mah's 3 year old, Edmonton bashing is too deeply entrenched for us to ignore. Of course we have to also improve Edmonton, but we have to re-take control of our image too. One way we can do that is start city comparisons in areas of our undeniable strengths, like arts, parks, sports, innovation, independance from Texas, balanced political debate, lack of wind, etc... (and in the meantime, turn East Jasper around.)

I know that a lot of people pooh pooh the city comparison stuff, but the thing is, it's already out there. And what's out there now is somewhere between ridiculous exageration and just plain false. And it's creating real problems in attracting and retaining companies, employees, and even immigrants.

Somebody just explain why else the oil head offices ended up 300 km South of the oil processing centre? What is the economic justification for putting the offices anywhere but either the biggest market, or the biggest supply? (And basing them in Fort McMurray wouldn't really bother me either.) Was it to keep Canadian Airlines afloat for forcing half the office workers in Calgary to make weekly trips to Edmonton? Okay, maybe it was, but the point is, if it were left to plain honest economic forces, Edmonton would currently be the size of Vancouver, and Calgary would be the size of, well, Regina plus the Banff international airport.

Get over it, anti-Edmontonism is real and it's entrenched. It's coming from Calgary and it's costing us a lot.

And either we counter it somehow, or it continues.

We do have reality on our side in a lot of categories, but those categories don't have a voice. I suggest we give them a voice and temper the currently one-sided arguement with some hard facts, engage in some playful mockery of the city of Cows (the city that trees forgot), and be prepared to keep it up for a generation or more. We don't need to become crazed and blinded zealots (like they are) but we do need the bashing to take a rest.

And in the meantime, yes, quietly acknowledge and remedy our weaknesses, and build our strengths.

m0nkyman
15-01-2007, 08:18 PM
playful mockery of the city of Cows (the city that trees forgot)

Snerk. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Glenco
15-01-2007, 09:07 PM
Like I have said before I lived in Calgary for nine years and spent another year and a half working there and commutting. The insults I had to endure are legion. There is no science to it. It is just plain ignorant spiteful vomit. The only thing I found that would keep them quiet is to tell them "To shut the f*** up" Works every time.

ChrisD
15-01-2007, 09:50 PM
.Both have problay never been to Edmonton past the airport or there crew hotel in Nisku.Sad,very sad....

Therein lies an issue. Many layovers have crews in the Nisku Inn et al...hardly a rockin place for travellers who can see other cities.
Actually, I believe the majority from AC stay at the Coast on 105, Crowne Plaza as I've seen them there on multiple occasions. I am sure that most of the Westjet folk stay downtown as well.

chupa
15-01-2007, 11:27 PM
Actually the hotels of choice for AC and WS are the royal executive in nisku and believe it or not the Leduc inn.Our hanger is home to a couple of the Majors aircraft when they want hanger and our shuttle driver gets to drive them to there hotels.Perhaps for longer stays they may use the intercity hotels,but for the overnights those are the two most readily used...

IanO
16-01-2007, 11:46 AM
.Both have problay never been to Edmonton past the airport or there crew hotel in Nisku.Sad,very sad....

Therein lies an issue. Many layovers have crews in the Nisku Inn et al...hardly a rockin place for travellers who can see other cities.
Actually, I believe the majority from AC stay at the Coast on 105, Crowne Plaza as I've seen them there on multiple occasions. I am sure that most of the Westjet folk stay downtown as well.

my AC friends stay at greenwood on calgary trail if it is a 12hr or less stay and coast downtown if 12 +

RichardS
16-01-2007, 01:10 PM
It all depends on the duty time that they have...

I see crews going to the Leduc Inn, mainly from the US.

I see crews heading to the Greenwood as Ian mentioned...

In short, the possibilities are changing, but if the WJ'ers are still staying in Nisku, it explains a lot...

daleb
16-01-2007, 04:52 PM
I don't care what Calgary thinks of us. Let's just continue to do our own thing...better. Like our number of Stanley Cups etc. I too know a lot of people down there who hate us and haven't even given us a chance. We're not going to change their minds, so lets move on. As for the West Jet employees...maybe we should tell someone at Westjet that we were offended by their comments. If they're going to crap on our city, then say you'll take your business elsewhere. Not that Air Canada's a great alternative...but sometimes these corporations need to know this stuff is being said during their flights by their employees. I'll do it if you want.

IanO
16-01-2007, 04:53 PM
I don't care what Calgary thinks of us. Let's just continue to do our own thing...better. Like our number of Stanley Cups etc. I too know a lot of people down there who hate us and haven't even given us a chance. We're not going to change their minds, so lets move on. As for the West Jet employees...maybe we should tell someone at Westjet that we were offended by their comments. If they're going to crap on our city, then say you'll take your business elsewhere. Not that Air Canada's a great alternative...but sometimes these corporations need to know this stuff is being said during their flights by their employees. I'll do it if you want.

people are entitled to their own words and it wasnt a bad thing to hear it per se, but more an observation i wanted to pass on.

RichardS
16-01-2007, 06:52 PM
True enough Ian, but back inthe PWA/Canadian days, if a Flight Attendant was caught badmouthing a city and it resulted in a letter, well, that was not taken lightly. Flight crews are ambassadors of the airline, and ther ARE people who live in the city they badmouth...and a bad rep is bad business. They need to keep the city opinions to themselves...

Sonic Death Monkey
16-01-2007, 07:04 PM
True enough Ian, but back inthe PWA/Canadian days, if a Flight Attendant was caught badmouthing a city and it resulted in a letter, well, that was not taken lightly. Flight crews are ambassadors of the airline, and ther ARE people who live in the city they badmouth...and a bad rep is bad business. They need to keep the city opinions to themselves...
Not only that, but someone who's going to Edmonton for the very first time may get a bad impression of the city from overhearing their cow-versation. Say, someone going there for business?

Caesar555
16-01-2007, 08:22 PM
We do have reality on our side in a lot of categories, but those categories don't have a voice. I suggest we give them a voice and temper the currently one-sided arguement with some hard facts, engage in some playful mockery of the city of Cows (the city that trees forgot), and be prepared to keep it up for a generation or more. We don't need to become crazed and blinded zealots (like they are) but we do need the bashing to take a rest.

And in the meantime, yes, quietly acknowledge and remedy our weaknesses, and build our strengths.

Great idea. Key phrase "playful mokery of the city of Cows", nothing spiteful, but respectful downgrading.
For example:
-Its pretty sad when the best thing about a city is that it's close to somewhere else.
-Edmonton is pretty ugly in April when the snow melts and everything is brown. Calgary is like that all year!
- Calgary's a beautiful city if you like the burnt desert and gravel motif.
- I heard people in Calgary eat pancakes everyday and have to say Yippikayea to strangers. What a friendly bunch.

I moved to Cochrane for a year in 1990 and really had a rough time. It seemed to me that they REALLY hated Edmonton back then, REALLY hated us. We've always made fun of them, but the feelings were not as deeply entrenched. Maybe the roles have changed.

TerryH
17-01-2007, 06:00 AM
You have to realize, too, that Calgary sprang up out of nowhere due to the political involvement to move the transcontinental railway closer to the American border and some land speculators (even though the entire settlement had to move 2 miles when the CPR didn't want to build through their first choice).

Their entire history has been to glorify themselves, to bring in noteriety, business and people, and slag other places to do so. Part of their self-glorification was shattered when Edmonton became the provincial capital and Strathcona (not Edmonton like a lot of them think) got the U of A.

It shows in their choice of some of who they idolize as icons. Bob Edwards was more of tabloid tattler than a newspaper publisher and Ed Whelan was best known as some schlock pro wrestling announcer who somehow got into a lot of everyday Calgary sports and brought his wrestling background into everything he did, even Reach for the Top!.

Here, Edwards would've been passed off as a lame joke and Whelan as an oddity in line with Bryan Hall.

Because of stuff like that, anyone who's ever lived down there comes back with tales of the surly attitude and constant antagonism that somehow gets glossed over by the promotional media hyping the city. Their "hospitality" seems to be more trained and forced than natural. Basically, if you want to see the friendliness of Alberta, go elsewhere.

I'm sure there are a lot more "shining" examples of the development of the Cowtown attitude that others can share.

Why we never cared about them was because we were more into developing the city and never having that inferiority complex they did. But, because of politics, media and personal observations, we've seen their snivelling and have finally gotten tired of their antics.

TerryH
17-01-2007, 06:05 AM
A little education about the things that they could do in Edmonton could turn their opinion right around. Then these girls would have a positive experience about Edmonton and spread the word.

"There was this guy, who was like so friendly, and like told us what we should do in Edmonton, and like, we had, like, a totally great time! I totally didn't know Edmonton was so great!"

I tried that with a Calgarian girl I was seeing one summer in Banff, but she outright refused not even to visit Edmonton, but also to believe that it could be good in any way, even though she'd never even been there. Needless to say that didn't last another week. (Toronto girls are more open minded, I discovered...)


Or you could tell them off and say that their uniforms make them look fat.

Hmmmmn. :? Does that work?

---

Like I was saying in the thread about Bill Mah's 3 year old, Edmonton bashing is too deeply entrenched for us to ignore. Of course we have to also improve Edmonton, but we have to re-take control of our image too. One way we can do that is start city comparisons in areas of our undeniable strengths, like arts, parks, sports, innovation, independance from Texas, balanced political debate, lack of wind, etc... (and in the meantime, turn East Jasper around.)

I know that a lot of people pooh pooh the city comparison stuff, but the thing is, it's already out there. And what's out there now is somewhere between ridiculous exageration and just plain false. And it's creating real problems in attracting and retaining companies, employees, and even immigrants.

Somebody just explain why else the oil head offices ended up 300 km South of the oil processing centre? What is the economic justification for putting the offices anywhere but either the biggest market, or the biggest supply? (And basing them in Fort McMurray wouldn't really bother me either.) Was it to keep Canadian Airlines afloat for forcing half the office workers in Calgary to make weekly trips to Edmonton? Okay, maybe it was, but the point is, if it were left to plain honest economic forces, Edmonton would currently be the size of Vancouver, and Calgary would be the size of, well, Regina plus the Banff international airport.

Get over it, anti-Edmontonism is real and it's entrenched. It's coming from Calgary and it's costing us a lot.

And either we counter it somehow, or it continues.

We do have reality on our side in a lot of categories, but those categories don't have a voice. I suggest we give them a voice and temper the currently one-sided arguement with some hard facts, engage in some playful mockery of the city of Cows (the city that trees forgot), and be prepared to keep it up for a generation or more. We don't need to become crazed and blinded zealots (like they are) but we do need the bashing to take a rest.

And in the meantime, yes, quietly acknowledge and remedy our weaknesses, and build our strengths.

You can blame the NEP and Petro-Canada (and Pierre Trudeau, who they should build a large statue to down there) for their latest growth. That allowed the big oil companies to buy off a lot of smaller companies outside of Calgary. Natural forces had little to do with their current growth.

North Guy66
17-01-2007, 10:40 AM
In the incident with the two flight attendants, I would have done the 'playful mockery' with them (nothing against IanO, he was probably tired and not in the mood for confrontation :wink: )

I would have broken the ice by saying something like, "Hey, I live in Edmonton and it isn't that bad at all".

I'll keep the tone kind of playful, these are Westjet employees after all :lol: . As mentioned earlier, the "Calgary is better than Edmonton" thinking is entrenched in a lot of people's minds.

So I would not go into the 'my dad could beat up your dad' game because that would make me, an Edmontonian, sound kind of hickish.

IanO
17-01-2007, 11:37 AM
In the incident with the two flight attendants, I would have done the 'playful mockery' with them (nothing against IanO, he was probably tired and not in the mood for confrontation :wink: )

I would have broken the ice by saying something like, "Hey, I live in Edmonton and it isn't that bad at all".

I'll keep the tone kind of playful, these are Westjet employees after all :lol: . As mentioned earlier, the "Calgary is better than Edmonton" thinking is entrenched in a lot of people's minds.

So I would not go into the 'my dad could beat up your dad' game because that would make me, an Edmontonian, sound kind of hickish.

if it hadnt been 7am...i would have entered into discussion:>

RichardS
17-01-2007, 12:23 PM
I would have broken the ice by saying something like, "Hey, I live in Edmonton and it isn't that bad at all".

.

That is something I regularly do to employees and passengers alike. You want to bash, then bash on fact, not conjecture.....

Sonic Death Monkey
17-01-2007, 02:17 PM
I now have a fear of talking to flight attendents after seeing that TV ad of the one going through nicotine withdrawal syndrome. :oops:

JayBee
18-01-2007, 10:22 PM
Somebody just explain why else the oil head offices ended up 300 km South of the oil processing centre? What is the economic justification for putting the offices anywhere but either the biggest market, or the biggest supply? (And basing them in Fort McMurray wouldn't really bother me either.) Was it to keep Canadian Airlines afloat for forcing half the office workers in Calgary to make weekly trips to Edmonton? Okay, maybe it was, but the point is, if it were left to plain honest economic forces, Edmonton would currently be the size of Vancouver, and Calgary would be the size of, well, Regina plus the Banff international airport.


You can blame the NEP and Petro-Canada (and Pierre Trudeau, who they should build a large statue to down there) for their latest growth. That allowed the big oil companies to buy off a lot of smaller companies outside of Calgary. Natural forces had little to do with their current growth.

I agree that the PetroCan office location was huge lost opportunity, but remember the justification at the time, that they wanted to spy on the oil industry, which had already been solidly established in Calgary. I still blame provincial forces, more than federal. (And yeah, Cowtown has no idea how much they owe Trudeau...)

RichardS
18-01-2007, 10:34 PM
...or is it the fact that the provincial Energy Board was located in Calgary many many years ago... BEFORE Petro Canada ;)

MylesC
19-01-2007, 10:25 AM
Somebody just explain why else the oil head offices ended up 300 km South of the oil processing centre? What is the economic justification for putting the offices anywhere but either the biggest market, or the biggest supply?

That's quite simple and maybe best distilled to three points:

1. When the Social Credit government first set up gas regulatory boards (before oil was around) they put it in Calgary near the southern fields. Also, it wasn't thought that it would ever amount to much, so it was the governmental bone thrown at Calgary.

2. American involvement. What's closer to the US border?

3. Edmontonian incompetence. We had Suncor, we had Imperial. We had a lot....then lost it b/c we wanted corporate vice-presidents to skate up a frozen hill on skates during the winter ;)

JayBee
20-01-2007, 09:06 PM
Somebody just explain why else the oil head offices ended up 300 km South of the oil processing centre? What is the economic justification for putting the offices anywhere but either the biggest market, or the biggest supply?

That's quite simple and maybe best distilled to three points:

1. When the Social Credit government first set up gas regulatory boards (before oil was around) they put it in Calgary near the southern fields. Also, it wasn't thought that it would ever amount to much, so it was the governmental bone thrown at Calgary.

2. American involvement. What's closer to the US border?

3. Edmontonian incompetence. We had Suncor, we had Imperial. We had a lot....then lost it b/c we wanted corporate vice-presidents to skate up a frozen hill on skates during the winter ;)

Okay, so,

Point 1: that is/was a provincial problem too, no?

Point 2: In terms of distance to Montana, 300 km. is significant. Question: is Montana significant?

Point 3: Uh, what? Please explain. Unless you're talking air service, I have no idea what you're refering to, before say 1990 (after which we lost only AEC in oil.)

RichardS
20-01-2007, 09:22 PM
I think Myles is making fun of Tooker's plan to flood the streets in the winter and have people skate to work...

emdubya
20-02-2007, 09:05 PM
Whenever I get the chance I like to travel in Canada. In the last few years I've visited Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa and Vancouver. Of all these cities, I have to say Edmonton was the least attractive for a pedestrian tourist.

If you're a tourist you can visit WEM, then Whyte, the Ft. Edmonton, then wonder why you bothered coming. The river valley is nice, but it really hasn't been exploited as a tourist asset because it's a sacred cow and no local politician has the will to move things forward.

RichardS
21-02-2007, 09:41 AM
/\ I would agree here.

summerdave
21-02-2007, 02:35 PM
emdubya - you're really not a fan of Edmonton at all. What's the deal? It's not all bad.

I totally agree though with your assesment of Edmonton's lack of pedestrian friendliness compared to those other cities.

ShermanT
22-02-2007, 02:07 AM
emdubya - you're really not a fan of Edmonton at all. What's the deal? It's not all bad.

I totally agree though with your assesment of Edmonton's lack of pedestrian friendliness compared to those other cities.

It sounds like their version of "tough love"... at least I hope it is. Really emdubya, you are allowed to give whatever opinion you want, but try to give some suggestions as to how to improve and maybe even try and do something about it.

There are in fact plenty of threads/posters that note the deficiencies in this city but try and phrase it as "constructive criticism" instead of "Edmonton bashing". To do otherwise would make people (myself included) think of you as nothing more than a troll.

This is the "Rant" forum, but not all posts in here have to be "Rant-like" if you know what I mean.

RichardS
22-02-2007, 08:57 AM
...but he has a point though...

Look at the Forks...something that is a no brainer slam dunk for here too on Rossdale, but we will debate and lament and debate and lament and debate and....you get the picture. The solution is right there in front of people and those in the bureaucracy choose to ignore it, or worse yet, know of it and chose NOT to promote it.

WEM, we all cry out for its renovation.

Muttart - nice, but what else can we do with it?

River Valley, I can't tell you how much I agree with him on the fact that this is too sacred of a cow...c'mon Edmonton, a small bistro wouldn't hurt! That tramway and river valley promenade is not obtrusive to nature! Yet, the very SECOND someone proposes this, they will be riddled with eco-nazi bullet holes and the politicians are just too afraid to touch that one...eco-nazi political suicide. NOOOOO, we can't design something that is minimal in its environmental impact, we have to leave it alone, put it under a glass jar, and look at it. Ohh pretty......ok......now I'm bored....what else can we do here?

Solution, we need a serious changing of the guard, not just in the council ranks, but in the rank and file too. I am finding too many people in the civil service so entrenched in 1978 and 1982 that there is no desire to move forward. Too many just waiting out their time until the golden handcuffs can be removed. The fight is gone. The scars are too many. The enthusiasm long since gone. Sure, there are a few that still care, but they eventually (and often too soon) run up into the wall of apathy, lethargy, and complacency that is our bureaucracy today. Trust me, in a few things I've tried to spearhead (even one on our top ten list), I've quickly received a nice pat on the head, a "gee, that's a nice idea", and then a brush off. Others that I know that have tried received the same.

Maybe it is time to offer retirement packages to some?

emdubya
22-02-2007, 09:01 AM
emdubya - you're really not a fan of Edmonton at all. What's the deal? It's not all bad.

I totally agree though with your assesment of Edmonton's lack of pedestrian friendliness compared to those other cities.

It sounds like their version of "tough love"... at least I hope it is. Really emdubya, you are allowed to give whatever opinion you want, but try to give some suggestions as to how to improve and maybe even try and do something about it.

There are in fact plenty of threads/posters that note the deficiencies in this city but try and phrase it as "constructive criticism" instead of "Edmonton bashing". To do otherwise would make people (myself included) think of you as nothing more than a troll.

This is the "Rant" forum, but not all posts in here have to be "Rant-like" if you know what I mean.

I did suggest an improvement: river valley development. Let's butcher this sacred cow already. The solution is not a funicular, although it's a start. You need destinations in the river valley first, and then transit that stops at them. Turn that EPCOR monstrosity into a covered market in the winter and an open-air market in the summer like Montreal has in little italy. Add restaurants. Add boutique shopping. Add... condo developments, bike rentals, and a nordic lodge... DO SOMETHING. Put some jewels in our green belt already.

m0nkyman
22-02-2007, 10:38 AM
Put some jewels in our green belt already.

That is the tagline for the campaign. That's something we can use as a slogan everytime and anytime that we push for something in the valley.

Very Nice.

Chump
22-02-2007, 10:55 AM
I did suggest an improvement: river valley development. Let's butcher this sacred cow already. The solution is not a funicular, although it's a start. You need destinations in the river valley first, and then transit that stops at them. Turn that EPCOR monstrosity into a covered market in the winter and an open-air market in the summer like Montreal has in little italy. Add restaurants. Add boutique shopping. Add... condo developments, bike rentals, and a nordic lodge... DO SOMETHING. Put some jewels in our green belt already.

Yup. And don't forget a weir.

ShermanT
22-02-2007, 12:21 PM
I did suggest an improvement: river valley development. Let's butcher this sacred cow already. The solution is not a funicular, although it's a start. You need destinations in the river valley first, and then transit that stops at them. Turn that EPCOR monstrosity into a covered market in the winter and an open-air market in the summer like Montreal has in little italy. Add restaurants. Add boutique shopping. Add... condo developments, bike rentals, and a nordic lodge... DO SOMETHING. Put some jewels in our green belt already.

This is good stuff. Much better than a drive by one liner about how terrible Edmonton is.

My point is that there can never be improvement if everyone carried the "tough love" attitude about this city all the time. People can sense your disdain for Edmonton and will be affected by your attitude (much like the airline people from the start of this thread). Why bother making things better it if it's all crap anyway?

ShermanT
22-02-2007, 12:24 PM
...but he has a point though...

I know he has a point and I am not arguing that. I just want to make sure that emdubya's message isn't tuned out due to the delivery.

davidnorwoodink
22-02-2007, 12:51 PM
I did suggest an improvement: river valley development. Let's butcher this sacred cow already. The solution is not a funicular, although it's a start. You need destinations in the river valley first, and then transit that stops at them. Turn that EPCOR monstrosity into a covered market in the winter and an open-air market in the summer like Montreal has in little italy. Add restaurants. Add boutique shopping. Add... condo developments, bike rentals, and a nordic lodge... DO SOMETHING. Put some jewels in our green belt already.

Yup. And don't forget a weir.

This actually should probably be in the River Valley section of the Forum, but this is something I wrote in my Edmontonians column more than three years ago.

"I have long advocated the need to develop a portion of the river valley to make it more accessible to more people. It’s wonderful to boast of the largest urban park in North America, and I’m not suggesting that we rip out the heart of the valley. I am suggesting, however, that we need to develop amenities through the centre of the city, perhaps east of the Shaw Conference Centre and west of the Walterdale bridge, like a boardwalk, restaurants and related services, so that people can use the valley year round. I think of how so many other cities have made better use of their riverfronts without sacrificing the overall integrity of the river – Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver (False Creek), Montreal, and, of course, London, Paris, Prague and so on. I admit that I find it ironic that we insist on maintaining the wilderness feel of virtually all of the river bank through the city when we, perhaps more than any other large city in North America, have immediate access to one of the largest areas of wilderness on the planet. Surely we can afford a bit of urban 'civilization' in the heart of the city along the riverfront."

travis
22-02-2007, 03:30 PM
We need a seawall stretching from Louise Mckinney to Government House.

soycd
27-06-2007, 09:49 AM
Figured this thread was as good as any to place this in. Ian Ritchie (sax player from Roger Waters' band) is keeping a blog on his Dark Side of the Moon tour. Heere's what he had to say yesterday about Edmonton.....


2007 : Edmonton : Edmonton doesn't seem to be the most interesting city we have visited so far. I enquired about hiring a bicycle but was told that the only bike hire store had closed. I had a walk round down town then over to Chinatown. Back at the hotel I managed to nab one of the conference rooms for a bit of practise for a couple of hours. In the evening Harry and I went to the Yardbird Suite jazz club hoping to hear some groovy sounds. The band were playing free jazz which wasn't really gelling, so we bailed after a couple ( of quite long ) tunes and went back to the hotel to watch a film.

^ I've highlighted the pertinent.

source -> Ian Ritchie blog (http://ian-ritchie.com/rwblog.htm)

DebraW
27-06-2007, 09:51 AM
Sad commentary.

glasshead
27-06-2007, 10:17 AM
ouch! :oops:

Sonic Death Monkey
27-06-2007, 11:25 AM
So we have a visitor who wanted to tour the river valley with a bike but couldn't. I thought there was that communal bike program?

But rather than get offended by Ian Ritchie's comment, let's take them as good feedback.

IanO
27-06-2007, 11:28 AM
So we have a visitor who wanted to tour the river valley with a bike but couldn't. I thought there was that communal bike program?

But rather than get offended by Ian Ritchie's comment, let's take them as good feedback.


yes there is, but it is for commuters, not tourists from what i know.

RichardS
27-06-2007, 11:39 AM
It is EXCELLENT feedback...

ThomasH
27-06-2007, 11:28 PM
I agree, excellent feedback.
What can we do to rectify the problem?

Perhaps the city could set up a bike rental booth at Churchill Square or some other convenient place where tourists go.

glasshead
28-06-2007, 08:36 AM
I agree, excellent feedback.
What can we do to rectify the problem?

Perhaps the city could set up a bike rental booth at Churchill Square or some other convenient place where tourists go.

or perhaps an entreprenuer that rents out both bicycles and scooters...with approval and support from the city of course.

IanO
28-06-2007, 09:26 AM
rent them at churchill, the legislature and louise mckinney.

soycd
29-06-2007, 09:04 AM
Another entry from Ian Ritchie's blog....


Tuesday 26th June 2007 : Edmonton : I took a very pleasant stroll along the North Saskatchewan River on this nice sunny day. Further upstream I crossed the river and visited the pyramid shaped Conservatory ( glass pyramids filled with exotic plants ). There must be a lot of Masons in Edmonton! ( The Town Hall is also a glass pyramid ). I then made the BIG mistake of exploring Mill Creek! Every flying insect in the area made a beeline for me and took a bite. Scots people must be a very popular menu item with the biting and stinging wildlife in Edmonton.......... Later I had some dinner al fresco in the town square listening to a local band. At 9 it was back to Yardbird Suite ( driven by another cabbie who had no idea where the club was. Jazz is clearly not popular in Edmonton ). There was a jam hosted by Marc Beaudin and his quintet who played a nice, if overly long, set of Dave Holland tunes before commencing the jam. Harry and I were straight up and played a couple of tunes to good effect. Almost immediately we had finished Roger arrived with a few friends to hear us play! We had to explain that we had already had our turn, and a number of other musicians were waiting to play before we were likely to get a second go on stage. Luckily we were called up again at the end of the evening and Roger's patience was rewarded by stirring versions of 'Softly As In A Morning Sunrise' played Latin and a swing version of 'Stella' to round off the jam. It was a pleasure to play with the excellent local guitarist Jim Head.

source -> Ian Ritchie blog (http://ian-ritchie.com/rwblog.htm)

Based on a couple of blog entries by an international globe-trotting musician, it would appear that Edmonton needs to brush up on its ability to cater to out-of-town guests and tourists. Looks like there are some simple things that cold be improved upon.

Do the hoteliers have a local association where they meet to discuss these types of things? On the upside Ian took some nice pics of the Mac Hotel & the river valley that he has posted on his website for all (around the world) to see!

DebraW
29-06-2007, 09:08 AM
Another entry from Ian Ritchie's blog....


Tuesday 26th June 2007 : Edmonton : I took a very pleasant stroll along the North Saskatchewan River on this nice sunny day. Further upstream I crossed the river and visited the pyramid shaped Conservatory ( glass pyramids filled with exotic plants ). There must be a lot of Masons in Edmonton! ( The Town Hall is also a glass pyramid ). I then made the BIG mistake of exploring Mill Creek! Every flying insect in the area made a beeline for me and took a bite. Scots people must be a very popular menu item with the biting and stinging wildlife in Edmonton.......... Later I had some dinner al fresco in the town square listening to a local band. At 9 it was back to Yardbird Suite ( driven by another cabbie who had no idea where the club was. Jazz is clearly not popular in Edmonton ). There was a jam hosted by Marc Beaudin and his quintet who played a nice, if overly long, set of Dave Holland tunes before commencing the jam. Harry and I were straight up and played a couple of tunes to good effect. Almost immediately we had finished Roger arrived with a few friends to hear us play! We had to explain that we had already had our turn, and a number of other musicians were waiting to play before we were likely to get a second go on stage. Luckily we were called up again at the end of the evening and Roger's patience was rewarded by stirring versions of 'Softly As In A Morning Sunrise' played Latin and a swing version of 'Stella' to round off the jam. It was a pleasure to play with the excellent local guitarist Jim Head.

source -> Ian Ritchie blog (http://ian-ritchie.com/rwblog.htm)

Based on a couple of blog entries by an international globe-trotting musician, it would appear that Edmonton needs to brush up on its ability to cater to out-of-town guests and tourists. Looks like there are some simple things that cold be improved upon.

Do the hoteliers have a local association where they meet to discuss these types of things? On the upside Ian took some nice pics of the Mac Hotel & the river valley that he has posted on his website for all (around the world) to see!

Thank you for posting this, hopefully some people who are in positions to affect changes WILL.

Doug
29-06-2007, 11:31 AM
It appears that a lot of the people in our hotel industry do not look at Edmonton as a tourist destination. We really do fall very short in many areas when it comes to selling ourselves. From some of the hotels along Gateway Blvd that don't maintain their properties to the lack of amenities for tourists such as bike rentals we fall really short. Some day it has got to change for the better.

DebraW
29-06-2007, 12:13 PM
It appears that a lot of the people in our hotel industry do not look at Edmonton as a tourist destination. We really do fall very short in many areas when it comes to selling ourselves. From some of the hotels along Gateway Blvd that don't maintain their properties to the lack of amenities for tourists such as bike rentals we fall really short. Some day it has got to change for the better.

I could not agree more.

24karat
29-06-2007, 12:39 PM
A question about bike rentals. Do the major bike stores not rent bikes?

DebraW
29-06-2007, 01:54 PM
A question about bike rentals. Do the major bike stores not rent bikes?

Not anymore.

newfangled
29-06-2007, 02:25 PM
A question about bike rentals. Do the major bike stores not rent bikes?

Not anymore.

I guess that the market of bike-riding touring-musicians isn't all that it's cracked up to be? :?

I just have to wonder - if this is such an obviously good idea, then why is no one currently trying to make any money off of it? And why are the people who were formerly trying to make money off of it no longer in the business?

Also:


At 9 it was back to Yardbird Suite ( driven by another cabbie who had no idea where the club was...

and so logically:


Jazz is clearly not popular in Edmonton.

Please. Firstly, jazz isn't popular anywhere (I've got 50+ jazz CD's, but it is the very definition of a "niche")

And secondly, what cabbie in any city actually knows where they're going?

Edmonton clearly could improve, but let's not make mountains of these molehile sized comments.

More importantly, his complaints are minor annoyances at best, and could be applied to any city. The bigger problem is that he clearly wasn't impressed with Edmonton.

If Edmonton had made a great impression then he wouldn't be complaining about all the piddly little things. And conversly, fixing all of the piddly little things is no guarantee that he would have left with a great impression.

soycd
29-06-2007, 02:29 PM
It appears that a lot of the people in our hotel industry do not look at Edmonton as a tourist destination. We really do fall very short in many areas when it comes to selling ourselves.

I agree.
Totally.
100%.

What really gets me is that a cabbie had NO frickin' clue where the Yardbird Suite is.


On March 23, 1957, the original Yardbird Suite opened on 10444 Whyte Avenue.

In 1959 Yardbird Suite relocated to 9810 Jasper Avenue.

In 1967 an old VW garage across from the old CP station on the south side (corner od 102 Street and 81st Avenue) became Yardbird Suite new location.

In 1973 the EJS re-organized and staged concerts at the Captain's Cabin on 89 Avenue and 99 Street, Palm's Cafe and other locations.

On September 13 1984, with a crew of dedicated jazz volunteers, the Yardbird Suite re-opened in its current location (known at the time as Malone Warehouse) at 11 Tommy Banks Way.

source -> Yardbird Suite (http://www.yardbirdsuite.com/)

The Yardbird Suite has been an Edmonton institution since 1957 and been at it's present location since 1984 and the cabbie had NO clue where it was? Now, I posted that lil history of the Yardbird Suite just so everyone could nod their heads because everyone knows where it is and most know that the Yardbird Suite has a long history here at various locations in the city for the last FIFTY years.

I'm surprised that the cabbies in Edmonton know where the hell the airport is. Don't they (or, shouldn't they) have to write a frickin' test before they are handed the keys to a cab?

The Edmonton International Jazz Festival (http://www.edmontonjazz.com/) is running from June 22nd to July 1st and the Yardbird Suite is one of the venues and the cabbie had NO idea where it was?

God forbid someone asking to be dropped off at the City Centre Airport for the champ car races later in July. They might end up at the International Airport.

This is beyond embarassing.

m0nkyman
29-06-2007, 02:48 PM
Even assuming that they're not that familiar with the city. The Yardbird is on the route from the airport to downtown, and the best route downtown form Whyte Ave. If a cab hasn't noticed a bright blue building on on of their most driven routes, I have to wonder what else they're failing to notice while yakking on their cellphones and scarfing down a shawarma.
http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC01392-tm.jpg (http://aptenobytes.typepad.com/m0nkymans_photo_blog/images/DSC01392.JPG)

mr.steevo
01-07-2007, 09:23 PM
scarfing down a shawarma.


:roll:

Hi,

I read through the rant. Some of the attacks are humorous. I remember how honestly surprised my Edmontonian girlfriend was to see trees in Calgary the first time I showed her around. How stupid is that?

Firstly, Edmonton isn't the only city that gets slagged on. Having been a Calgarian in Victoria for two years I heard all about how crappy my birth town is. It is annoying, but what can you do. I tried explaining that not everybody drives a hummer, wears a cowboy hat, and rapes the land of resources but to no avail. People have their own opinions and there is not much you can do to change them.

Edmonton stinks at promoting itself. All these festivals here but I have never had my buddies from Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto, Victoria, etc ask how the "insert name" festival was. Where's the marketing? Where's the hoopla about the city? If you tell enough people enough times that something is great, pretty soon people are going to start repeating it. And if you don't believe me, just look at how well negative promotion has worked for our city. "Edmonton sucks" has been repeated so many times that it has become truth for people who haven't even been here. How stupid is that? Oh wait...

From the perspective of a tourist, Edmonton needs improved destinations. WEM and Whyte Ave isn't going to cut it for tourists who fly in and stay in a downtown hotel. Sure, Jasper Ave is picking up, but its not a destination that my out of town guests have raved about. It's dirty, run down, and some parts are intimidating. I know Jasper Ave is changing for the better, it just sure is taking its sweet time. Really, the valley has to be better integrated with the downtown area. We HAVE to have cafes, bike rentals, ice cream shops, resturants, hot dogs, buskers...life. Something has to be done with that area to make it a real destination, because NO ONE is going to travel to Edmonton just to see the river valley in its current form (unless you're looking for dinosaurs).

Finally, we need a structural icon that people think of when the think of Edmonton. Quick, what's the first thing you think of when you hear Paris. London. Calgary. Toronto. I bet it is a structure of some kind.

But I am preaching to the converted. *sigh*

DebraW
01-07-2007, 09:38 PM
scarfing down a shawarma.


:roll:

Hi,

I read through the rant. Some of the attacks are humorous. I remember how honestly surprised my Edmontonian girlfriend was to see trees in Calgary the first time I showed her around. How stupid is that?

Firstly, Edmonton isn't the only city that gets slagged on. Having been a Calgarian in Victoria for two years I heard all about how crappy my birth town is. It is annoying, but what can you do. I tried explaining that not everybody drives a hummer, wears a cowboy hat, and rapes the land of resources but to no avail. People have their own opinions and there is not much you can do to change them.

Edmonton stinks at promoting itself. All these festivals here but I have never had my buddies from Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto, Victoria, etc ask how the "insert name" festival was. Where's the marketing? Where's the hoopla about the city? If you tell enough people enough times that something is great, pretty soon people are going to start repeating it. And if you don't believe me, just look at how well negative promotion has worked for our city. "Edmonton sucks" has been repeated so many times that it has become truth for people who haven't even been here. How stupid is that? Oh wait...

From the perspective of a tourist, Edmonton needs improved destinations. WEM and Whyte Ave isn't going to cut it for tourists who fly in and stay in a downtown hotel. Sure, Jasper Ave is picking up, but its not a destination that my out of town guests have raved about. It's dirty, run down, and some parts are intimidating. I know Jasper Ave is changing for the better, it just sure is taking its sweet time. Really, the valley has to be better integrated with the downtown area. We HAVE to have cafes, bike rentals, ice cream shops, resturants, hot dogs, buskers...life. Something has to be done with that area to make it a real destination, because NO ONE is going to travel to Edmonton just to see the river valley in its current form (unless you're looking for dinosaurs).

Finally, we need a structural icon that people think of when the think of Edmonton. Quick, what's the first thing you think of when you hear Paris. London. Calgary. Toronto. I bet it is a structure of some kind.

But I am preaching to the converted. *sigh*

Yes, indeed you are preaching to the converted.

I agree no one comes to Edmonton to "see" the river valley or I would heaven forbid say the majority of our festivals as great as they are unless they are involved with the event.

Yup, we do a lousy job at promoting ourself and I would suggest that changing others perceptions about Edmonton MUST come from the inside. We have to stop comparing ourself to Calgary or Toronto or where ever and instead herald our Edmontoness.

I agree an icon is needed and is what you tend to evoke when thinking of cities...the Eiffel Tower, the CN Tower, the Hollywood sign, the San Fransisco Bridge, the Sydney Harbour Bridge...all are memorable ICONS.

RichardS
02-07-2007, 09:13 AM
(...)
Edmonton stinks at promoting itself. All these festivals here but I have never had my buddies from Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto, Victoria, etc ask how the "insert name" festival was. Where's the marketing? Where's the hoopla about the city? If you tell enough people enough times that something is great, pretty soon people are going to start repeating it. And if you don't believe me, just look at how well negative promotion has worked for our city. "Edmonton sucks" has been repeated so many times that it has become truth for people who haven't even been here. How stupid is that? Oh wait...

(...)

exactly.

Edmonton sucks at promoting itself because some of the bodies that do promote it try and try and try for this group hug concensus amongst all stakeholders - which in turn leads to a watered down, how on earth could this ever offend campaign that is offensive in its own lack of an ability to promote the city.

Meanwhile, "Edmonton Sucks" is uttered by joe layman, and becomes the word of the day...combatted by "It's cooler here?????"

Caesar555
02-07-2007, 10:45 AM
I can't believe the negativity on this site in general. Lots of complaints, no positive spin at all. For me, this represents the biggest "problem" Edmonton has. No positive energy, why would anybody want to go to such a soul sucking place?
I love Edmonton and tell as many people as I can what I like about it. Typically the response is positive, with a tint of surprise that someone is actually speaking positively about Edmonton.
Time to suck it up people and move on to create a positive atmosphere in your city. No one is going to do it for you.

DebraW
02-07-2007, 11:08 AM
I can't believe the negativity on this site in general. Lots of complaints, no positive spin at all. For me, this represents the biggest "problem" Edmonton has. No positive energy, why would anybody want to go to such a soul sucking place?
I love Edmonton and tell as many people as I can what I like about it. Typically the response is positive, with a tint of surprise that someone is actually speaking positively about Edmonton.
Time to suck it up people and move on to create a positive atmosphere in your city. No one is going to do it for you.

That is what we are trying to do...with limited success sometimes.

You truly do not see in general any positive spin on C2E? I see a lot of positivity and genuine attempts to change the status quo.

Takes time to be sure and shifting attitudes is the longest and hardest part of the process but then anything worthwhile always does.

I constantly try to find stories to populate the "Rave" section and would one day like to see this section become the largest!

However, balance is also needed as thing can never change if there are not "rants" or people in positions to affect changes do not know things are wrong.

May I suggest you keep looking (to C2E) as "the times they are a changing" and connect2edmonton is a (huge) part of that process.
:D

RichardS
02-07-2007, 11:22 AM
rcmbrown, please do not interpret the coments as negativity, because this site does offer plenty of solutions. The main issue here in Edmonton is that this city as a whole is struggling to wake up and realize that it is big league now, not bush league.

You'd be surprised at the positive energy here if you think this place is negative. We are, for the most part, not the whiny restaurant complainer that never lets people know their issues, but the one that critiques and offers suggestions while giving the place a second, third, and even fourth chance. We see the potential, we just need to slap a few folks awake in positions of influence. A booster site won't do that, but a site that exposes teh underbelly and undercurrent witha great smattering of people willing to invest personal time to make a difference can. That is what you are, and will continue to see from C2E.

Caesar555
02-07-2007, 08:03 PM
I've been an avid visitor to this forum since March of 2006. DJgirl is an extraordinarily positive poster so I do not mean to come down on her at all.

My point is that I have noticed a lot of negativity on C2E, especially lately. It is easy to slag the negative things about Edmonton; however, that doesn't mean we need to focus on the bad points. I'm not saying we should all be 'Booster Bill Smiths' either, I'm saying that there should be more focus on what is good about Edmonton and the positive direction it is going in rather focussing on what is wrong.

Nothing wrong with a little self deprecation, just in moderation.

Winnipegboy
04-07-2007, 08:39 AM
Look at the Forks...something that is a no brainer slam dunk

The Forks is a huge success story for Winnipeg. It has a variety of shops and restaurants, and get 3-5 million visitors a years. Now with all the development on Luxury Condominiums and mixed-use buildings on Waterfront Drive, the area is exploding with vibrancy.

It's a real gem. :-)