Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

ScootScoop Edmonton: Free Removal of Abandoned eScooters

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    I say b.s. to your story right from the first line.

    You don't have friends....
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
      I say b.s. to your story right from the first line.

      You don't have friends....
      Does anyone that posts go c2e?

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
        I say b.s. to your story right from the first line.

        You don't have friends....
        Pretty sure its you who doesnt have any friends and you just need to project that on to others that fact its really sad

        Comment


        • #94
          Haven't looked at every post in the thread but I think its fair to be a bit critical of the Edmonton decision to allow these things on roadways.

          On one hand Edmonton is locked into its mandate of Vision zero to reduce accidents and injuries. Its gone full bore on that one transforming speed limits drastically to limit schoolground/playground accidents that were not prolific in the first place.

          Then it gives cursory blanket acceptance to adoption of motorized scooters just because some other cities are doing it.

          This despite Calgary experiencing 60 injuries that were significant to require hospital visits in the first two weeks of roll out of these damn things.

          https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ries-1.5227244



          So in the least theres huge inconsistency here on the part of the COE. Is the mandate reducing accidents or not.

          Theres been tons of reported problems with the usage of these vehicles. People are not using helmets, they are not familiar with the operation of the scooters, while they are going 20k they are not comfortable in the braking or how well these vehicles actually brake. Most people using these motorized scooters have probably never been on a scooter before. Seems like a bad idea to have these people in traffic, on roads, none of whom are required to have a licence. At the very least usage of these should require a free training prerequisite. Learn to handle it properly with some supervision in a controlled space. The difference between these, and say bike sharing is that everybody has rode a bicycle before.

          The ridiculous fare cost on these things, paying by the minute, also results in some users probably going faster than they should to limit the cost of the trip. The cost is ridiculous. It cost more to rent a scooter than it costs me to rent a cargo van at a hardware store that has a sticker price 50 times that of these scooters.

          Finally, the adoption of these junk scooters is obscene from an environmental pov. They replace essentially walking, or cycling, etc and the average bird motorized scooter lasts about 28 days from prior reports. So in otherwards this conveyance is disposable junk. So poorly put together that its just another thing that piles up as garbage. This is disposable conveyance. This is not a green mode of conveyance when one considers that these don't last. These scooters are not manufactured to be commercial use. They are stated and intended to be personal limited use, by people 200lbs or under, for limited distance rides and are not intended for use in winter. As public modes these last on average around 28 days. Ridiculous.
          Last edited by Replacement; 20-08-2019, 10:28 AM.
          "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

          Comment


          • #95
            One silo not talking to another silo? Doesn't sound like City of Edmonton administration at all!!!!


            /s
            A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Replacement View Post
              Haven't looked at every post in the thread but I think its fair to be a bit critical of the Edmonton decision to allow these things on roadways.

              On one hand Edmonton is locked into its mandate of Vision zero to reduce accidents and injuries. Its gone full bore on that one transforming speed limits drastically to limit schoolground/playground accidents that were not prolific in the first place.

              Then it gives cursory blanket acceptance to adoption of motorized scooters just because some other cities are doing it.

              This despite Calgary experiencing 60 injuries that were significant to require hospital visits in the first two weeks of roll out of these damn things.

              https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ries-1.5227244
              But Calgary's bylaw is opposite, only allowed on sidewalks, not streets.

              Calgary
              Minimum age 18
              Users can ride only on sidewalks, pathways and in bike lanes. It is illegal to ride these single-user devices on city roads.

              Even so, I can see some rider going down the sidewalk at 20kph, dodging pedestrians and then shooting across an intersection in the crosswalk as the light changes and someone in an SUV making a right or left turn crossing their path.
              Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 20-08-2019, 11:11 AM.
              Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

              Comment


              • #97
                Seems like the city did no real research on this mode of conveyance, or they just don't really care about Vision zero. Or sarcastically I could say the COE is displaying zero vision in allowing these things.

                The record on these is well established, and its bad. These are far more trouble than they are worth.

                https://mashable.com/article/e-scoot...-injury-study/

                "The most common injuries were to peoples heads."

                4% of users wear helmets. Its social Darwinism at best except the injuries also occur to those unsuspecting pedestrians that are hit by e scooters.

                This is a winter city. Full of potholes every spring, into early summer, and these vehicles crater in any pothole sending their user victims head first into whatever object.


                Next users of course require no insurance and the many accidents involving other vehicles or pedestrians are not settled by Bird or Lime, who have a flock of lawyers saying its user fault. Get injured or have your property or vehicle damaged by these and you get no compensation. Tons of accidents involving these scooters and pedestrians ON SIDEWALKS which the COE has falsely stated wanting to protect.

                Like most places these operate, the Edmonton roads, sidewalks, multiuse lanes just got more dangerous.

                This city loves any fad it seems and has to try everyone, no matter how spectacular a failure these have been in all other jurisdictions. This isn't even a profitable business endeavor because of the limited lifespan of these e scooters.
                "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
                  Originally posted by Replacement View Post
                  Haven't looked at every post in the thread but I think its fair to be a bit critical of the Edmonton decision to allow these things on roadways.

                  On one hand Edmonton is locked into its mandate of Vision zero to reduce accidents and injuries. Its gone full bore on that one transforming speed limits drastically to limit schoolground/playground accidents that were not prolific in the first place.

                  Then it gives cursory blanket acceptance to adoption of motorized scooters just because some other cities are doing it.

                  This despite Calgary experiencing 60 injuries that were significant to require hospital visits in the first two weeks of roll out of these damn things.

                  https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ries-1.5227244
                  But Calgary's bylaw is opposite, only allowed on sidewalks, not streets.

                  Calgary
                  Minimum age 18
                  Users can ride only on sidewalks, pathways and in bike lanes. It is illegal to ride these single-user devices on city roads.

                  Even so, I can see some rider going down the sidewalk at 20kph, dodging pedestrians and then shooting across an intersection in the crosswalk as the light changes and someone in an SUV making a right or left turn crossing their path.
                  I don't know if Edmonton's approach is a reaction to the number of accidents in Calgary, but before we get too excited about that, really every mode of transportation has accidents, bikes do and cars do also. Unless we all put on bubble wrap before leaving our homes there is a chance we will get injured. We need to consider the rate and severity of the accidents and not just take a number out of context.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
                    Originally posted by Replacement View Post
                    Haven't looked at every post in the thread but I think its fair to be a bit critical of the Edmonton decision to allow these things on roadways.

                    On one hand Edmonton is locked into its mandate of Vision zero to reduce accidents and injuries. Its gone full bore on that one transforming speed limits drastically to limit schoolground/playground accidents that were not prolific in the first place.

                    Then it gives cursory blanket acceptance to adoption of motorized scooters just because some other cities are doing it.

                    This despite Calgary experiencing 60 injuries that were significant to require hospital visits in the first two weeks of roll out of these damn things.

                    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ries-1.5227244
                    But Calgary's bylaw is opposite, only allowed on sidewalks, not streets.

                    Calgary
                    Minimum age 18
                    Users can ride only on sidewalks, pathways and in bike lanes. It is illegal to ride these single-user devices on city roads.

                    Even so, I can see some rider going down the sidewalk at 20kph, dodging pedestrians and then shooting across an intersection in the crosswalk as the light changes and someone in an SUV making a right or left turn crossing their path.
                    The EJ, as we saw in the article even had the user on a sidewalk, flouting the rules, on the front page of the paper. Sidewalk usage is occurring all over. At the fringe they are darting around anywhere. Pedestrian dodge seems to be a new game.

                    The accidents you foresee with vehicles have all occurred in other jurisdictions. With damages to new vehicles up to 4-5 K. With no compensation paid. With people having to eat those costs through their own insurance, paying the deductible, and having their rates go up due to the claim.

                    Bird and Lime have notorious records and absolve themselves of all blame. They even try to deny the presence of one of their e scooters at accident scenes when street cameras and bystanders have reported the accident and the scooter being involved. Any of these claims is obfuscated by Bird and Lime.
                    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dave View Post
                      Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
                      Originally posted by Replacement View Post
                      Haven't looked at every post in the thread but I think its fair to be a bit critical of the Edmonton decision to allow these things on roadways.

                      On one hand Edmonton is locked into its mandate of Vision zero to reduce accidents and injuries. Its gone full bore on that one transforming speed limits drastically to limit schoolground/playground accidents that were not prolific in the first place.

                      Then it gives cursory blanket acceptance to adoption of motorized scooters just because some other cities are doing it.

                      This despite Calgary experiencing 60 injuries that were significant to require hospital visits in the first two weeks of roll out of these damn things.

                      https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ries-1.5227244
                      But Calgary's bylaw is opposite, only allowed on sidewalks, not streets.

                      Calgary
                      Minimum age 18
                      Users can ride only on sidewalks, pathways and in bike lanes. It is illegal to ride these single-user devices on city roads.

                      Even so, I can see some rider going down the sidewalk at 20kph, dodging pedestrians and then shooting across an intersection in the crosswalk as the light changes and someone in an SUV making a right or left turn crossing their path.
                      I don't know if Edmonton's approach is a reaction to the number of accidents in Calgary, but before we get too excited about that, really every mode of transportation has accidents, bikes do and cars do also. Unless we all put on bubble wrap before leaving our homes there is a chance we will get injured. We need to consider the rate and severity of the accidents and not just take a number out of context.
                      E scooter accidents are far more prevalent per user/kilometer than either the walking or bus riding they replace. The accidents, often involving head injuries are also far more serious.

                      The bubble wrap argument is always silly in context of a known dangerous conveyance.

                      As stated earlier people know how to ride bikes, in the case of bikes they are using their own bikes and are familiar with its usage, its braking, handling, etc. These rent scooters offer zero such familiarity and so that the handling of these is much more dangerous and subject to driver error and accidents. The wheel and clearance profile is also entirely different. Any road uncomformity or pothole will basically swallow these small wheels sending the user careening. These e scooters profile and wheels are NOT suitable for usage on anything but perfect condition paths and roadways. Not what is encountered in a winter pothole city.

                      Nor are bicycles limited to under 200lbs only, or subject to such advised limited usage and with such enormous known defects. From reports sometimes the brakes on e scooters are said not to work, or not to work or function as expected.
                      Last edited by Replacement; 20-08-2019, 11:41 AM.
                      "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Replacement View Post
                        Originally posted by Dave View Post
                        Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
                        Originally posted by Replacement View Post
                        Haven't looked at every post in the thread but I think its fair to be a bit critical of the Edmonton decision to allow these things on roadways.

                        On one hand Edmonton is locked into its mandate of Vision zero to reduce accidents and injuries. Its gone full bore on that one transforming speed limits drastically to limit schoolground/playground accidents that were not prolific in the first place.

                        Then it gives cursory blanket acceptance to adoption of motorized scooters just because some other cities are doing it.

                        This despite Calgary experiencing 60 injuries that were significant to require hospital visits in the first two weeks of roll out of these damn things.

                        https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ries-1.5227244
                        But Calgary's bylaw is opposite, only allowed on sidewalks, not streets.

                        Calgary
                        Minimum age 18
                        Users can ride only on sidewalks, pathways and in bike lanes. It is illegal to ride these single-user devices on city roads.

                        Even so, I can see some rider going down the sidewalk at 20kph, dodging pedestrians and then shooting across an intersection in the crosswalk as the light changes and someone in an SUV making a right or left turn crossing their path.
                        I don't know if Edmonton's approach is a reaction to the number of accidents in Calgary, but before we get too excited about that, really every mode of transportation has accidents, bikes do and cars do also. Unless we all put on bubble wrap before leaving our homes there is a chance we will get injured. We need to consider the rate and severity of the accidents and not just take a number out of context.
                        E scooter accidents are far more prevalent per user/kilometer than either the walking or bus riding they replace. The accidents, often involving head injuries are also far more serious.

                        The bubble wrap argument is always silly in context of a known dangerous conveyance.

                        As stated earlier people know how to ride bikes, in the case of bikes they are using their own bikes and are familiar with its usage, its braking, handling, etc. These rent scooters offer zero such familiarity and so that the handling of these is much more dangerous and subject to driver error and accidents. The wheel and clearance profile is also entirely different. Any road uncomformity or pothole will basically swallow these small wheels sending the user careening. These e scooters profile and wheels are NOT suitable for usage on anything but perfect condition paths and roadways. Not what is encountered in a winter pothole city.

                        Nor are bicycles limited to under 200lbs only, or subject to such advised limited usage and with such enormous known defects. From reports sometimes the brakes on e scooters are said not to work, or not to work or function as expected.
                        Actually it is not silly, people are KILLED in car accidents daily in this world, yet somehow we seem not to get to worked up about it very much if at all, also ever heard about brakes on a car "not working or functioning as expected"? People in this city have been KILLED hit by ETS buses or walking in marked cross walks, more than once in recent years too. What is actually silly is all the hysteria about something new. Yes, it may take a while for users and other people around to familiarize themselves well with something new, but they are not inherently so terribly dangerous. Life is inherently dangerous.

                        Yes there are potholes in some places, but Edmonton is not that much more pothole ridden than most more southerly places. I used to bike more and found them to be a concern in places, but fairly quickly figured out which roads were well maintained and which not. If anything the roads here are much better maintained than 10 or 15 years ago - there was a time when governments really slipped in maintenance.

                        As for someone shooting across an intersection as a cross walk light changes and a SUV hitting them, well I'm fairly sure you can't blame that one on either of the two mechanical devices. Has an SUV ever "shooted" through a light changing with bad consequences before scooters? Sure that never happened!

                        Comment


                        • What is silly is your comments.

                          Scooters are not new, they have been around for over 100 years. So have automobiles.

                          The safety of the automobile has risen drastically with crumple zones, safety glass, seatbelts, airbags, hydraulic brakes, better tires etc.

                          Scooters, not so much.

                          It is not just something new with huge issues on liability, safety and consistent laws. Automobiles require a license, vehicle registration, insurance and clearly defined and consistent laws.

                          Scooters have higher accident rates per kilometer used.

                          You cannot compare the millions of kilometers driven daily to the paltry amount of kilometers of scooter use.

                          A CNBC story in March found that trauma centers around the country were experiencing a spike in e-scooter related injuries.

                          According to the CDC study, the most common wound after head injuries involved upper extremity fractures at 27%, followed by lower extremity fractures at 12%. The study, which lasted nearly three months, found the e-scooter injury rate was 14.3 per 100,000 trips. (143,000 per billion)


                          The median age for people injured was 29. The majority of injuries occurred on the street, with 29% connected to first-time riders and 18% involving motor vehicles.


                          “Interventions aimed at these risks and education to first-time riders could potentially reduce injury incidence and severity,” the report said.
                          https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/01/cdc-...h-helmets.html


                          Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 20-08-2019, 01:21 PM.
                          Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
                            What is silly is your comments.

                            Scooters are not new, they have been around for over 100 years. So have automobiles.

                            The safety of the automobile has risen drastically with crumple zones, safety glass, seatbelts, airbags, hydraulic brakes, better tires etc.

                            Scooters, not so much.

                            It is not just something new with huge issues on liability, safety and consistent laws. Automobiles require a license, vehicle registration, insurance and clearly defined and consistent laws.

                            Scooters have higher accident rates per kilometer used.

                            You cannot compare the millions of kilometers driven daily to the paltry amount of kilometers of scooter use.
                            Actually, they are new to our roads in larger numbers, so it will take a while for everyone to get used to them.

                            Using the word accident can obscure the severity of it. A bruise or a sprain could be considered an accident and yes, people may even go to the hospital for it.

                            Autos go at much, much higher speeds, so of course you might expect and require more safety features. Of course, all these safety features did not happen all at once. I think it was a while between when they started appearing in early in the 20th century, say about 80 or 90 years before airbags, etc. Wasn't there a well known book called "Unsafe at any speed" while millions were already happily driving away in the 1960's? Maybe some would argue we are at the pinnacle of auto safety now, but as I recall people have also been killed or injured by faulty airbags, so like everything it remains a work in progress, not to mention the serious environmental issues we are grappling with.

                            Also, if an auto hits a pedestrian, those airbags don't do so much for them.

                            Comment


                            • You still miss the point.

                              It has very little to do with scooters being "new"

                              They have a higher accident rate than any automobile contrary to you gaslighting that cars are more dangerous.
                              Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
                                You still miss the point.

                                It has very little to do with scooters being "new"

                                They have a higher accident rate than any automobile contrary to you gaslighting that cars are more dangerous.
                                Gee you seem to have totally missed all my points too. You know hysteria is a two way street - scooter ACCIDENTS!!! automobiles KILL!!

                                I will type slowly and try to use different words ... new not only relates to the date of invention, but also time of user adoption. Did you know that new car drivers have more accidents too? Again, not the fault of the mechanical device.

                                By the way, any opinion contrary to yours is not always gaslighting, it is just a different point of view. Try have an open mind.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X