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North-South Freeway

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  • Currently the COE is trying to daylight the outflow of Mill Creek in the river valley

    There is no way in hell that the COE will reverse their direction 180 degrees and build anything, not even LRT down Mill Creek., especially a freeway

    I don't know how old you are yeggator but many people remember that one determined small group, stopped the COE in the midst of their plans from turning MacKinnion Ravine into a freeway in the 1970's. This was to be an extension of the River Valley Road, to make a direct route from downtown to the West End. They effectively killed the entire METS plan

    Here is a detailed paper on the whole history and the change in attitudes towards preserving natural park space

    Please read it

    The Affordances of MacKinnon Ravine:
    Fighting Freeways and Pursuing Government Reform in Edmonton, Alberta

    Superintendent Jack R. Wright, head of Parks and Recreation
    for the City of Edmonton in the mid-1960s, was outspoken in his
    concerns over the sacrifice of potential parkland for transportation infrastructure.

    In November 1962, he went on the record
    with his apprehension about coming pressures on the river
    valley.42 While city council was quite willing to pass motions to
    reserve valley land as parkland, Wright seems to have become
    increasingly convinced that no real action would follow.

    When it became clear that the city was moving ahead with the METS
    plan, Wright became a public critic of the mentality he saw
    underlying the plan. In early 1965, Wright was quoted in the
    Edmonton Journal as saying that automobiles “have been given
    an inflated social and psychological value that has no connection with their utility as a transportation machine.”

    So profound were Wright’s concerns that the matter seems to have figured in
    his decision to resign his position with the city.

    The loudest and most persistent voice against the METS plan
    emerged from a citizens group that dubbed itself the Save Our
    Parks Association (SOPA).Formed in spring 1965 in opposition to what
    they perceived as METS’s incursions on the river valley, the organization
    orchestrated significant and sustained
    actions on areas that were threatened by the initial stages of the
    METS plan.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 13-02-2020, 06:57 AM. Reason: quote
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.


    • Originally posted by yeggator
      If we were to build a north-south freeway, the Mill Creek Ravine would honestly be our best option.
      What is with your desire to ruin our special places? Just let this idea of yours die already, It will never ever ever ever ever happen. Millcreek is not going to be turned into a freeway, no matter how great of an option you think this is.
      A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.


      • Originally posted by yeggator View Post
        By the way, I've just considered this. The impact on Mill Creek could be minimized further if we built a viaduct with one set of lanes (northbound) running on an elevated viaduct above the other set of southbound lanes on the ground below. And let's not forget wildlife crossings.
        Just no. No Viaduct, leave Mill creek alone. We don't really need a north-south freeway anyways. 75st can be improved.
        A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.


        • Originally posted by Medwards View Post

          Just no. No Viaduct, leave Mill creek alone. We don't really need a north-south freeway anyways. 75st can be improved.
          So let's punch the Manning freeway down 75 St. then. The problem is how to side step over to the 91 St. alignment without bringing out the bulldozers en mass.
          Come to think of it?
          Swerving westward after crossing Argyll (and under that conveniently elevated LRT) , parallel to the existing CP ROW, would probably work really well. Might cost a bit in land acquisition to evict
          some of the warehouse/industrial tenants but then again? The CPR might also relax with regards to a minimal encroachment on their ROW, depending on how the matter is handled politically.
          SPUI's at 101, 98, and 82 Aves. RI/RO @ 76 Ave. Reconfigure the 106 Ave interchange to a full Diamond (there are designs of this configuration from the initial Studies). Three lanes N/S with a Jersey barrier would allow the existing service roads along 75 St. to "just" remain, but only just. Sound walls between 98th Ave and 82nd Ave, along the freeway corridor would be required.
          The only real problems along this section would be buying back the "pork chops" at 82 Ave (for the SPUI) and the engineering for the grade separation with the CPR @ 75 St.
          Continuing southward, (this assumes an ROW which has crossed to the south of the CPR and follows it to 91 St.) limited access interchange @ 91 st with freeway priority given over N/S movements on 91 St. There are a number of different Interchange designs which could be used here (there is a considerable footprint available at the location). For the intent of the exercise (and to minimize cost) a simple flyover of 91 st for southbound freeway traffic and a high speed graded ramp for the northbound freeway should suffice.
          51 Ave: SPUI
          Whitemud: Full Systems Interchange, free flow ramps in all directions. This intersection is already designed with this necessity in mind.
          Millwoods Road: RI/RO
          34 Ave: SPUI
          28 Ave: RI/RO with a fly over to eastbound 28 Ave from the south freeway. (tons of space for this).
          23 Ave.: Full systems interchange; free flow in all directions. Again, the space is there.
          Anthony Henday: Full system interchange (although I have no idea how to do this...I''m not an engineer LOL) .
          Examining the extant infrastructure and the space available for the weave zone between 91 W/B, Gateway NB, and Cal Tr. SB, all trying to get on or off the Henday, It might make the most sense to drop this freeway into the southbound Calgary Tr. flow by means of a lane expansion and a fly over?
          North bound traffic looking to access the freeway (coming off of Hwy 2) can just use the existing interchange.
          The only problem I see is integrating SB 91 St into WB Anthony Henday.
          If SB is a fly-over then the only way is recreating the Fiasco at Terwilligar/Whitemud, with a lane joining on the left and as this weave zone is already "challenging" to some of our drivers around here? Making it even more complicated is not going to work well, particularly if they now have to merge into the fast lane (110+km) on the Henday.

          There you have it.
          A North/South freeway that uses extant infrastructure.
          Last edited by Iron; 16-02-2020, 03:46 PM.


          • The speed limit on the henday is 100.
            A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.


            • Are trucks still banned on the segment of 75th Street between 90 and 98 Avenue?
              "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.


              • Yup
                Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.


                • Originally posted by yeggator View Post
                  By the way, when it comes to building this North-South Freeway, just imagine what they've got in Calgary with Deerfoot Trail. Yes, there may be a lot of congestion at times, but otherwise, they're blessed to have a freeway like it, which is especially useful for cargo movement inside the city. As for everyone who says we shouldn't be supporting this in an effort to turn away from sprawl, the car culture and suburbanization is already well-established and won't go away anytime soon. The developed suburban areas already necessitate better north-south connections in our city. Our neighboring municipalities will definitely continue to see suburban growth, even if we try to curb it within Edmonton. It's inevitable and we should plan for it.
                  Deerfoot suffers congestion levels unseen in Edmonton though. Its construction also destroyed the Nose Creek valley, and would have done the same to Fish Creek if Lougheed hadn't intervened to save it. Like it or not, ecological concerns trump whatever time savings said freeway would have promised.


                  • ^ add to that the fact that Deerfoot right of way is between 150m and 500m wide which would require the expropriation of billions of dollars in housing and businesses. Then you have the cost of relocating and building replacement housing and the urban sprawl that just increases longer commute times and more traffic. Once completed, the surrounding neighborhoods would have increased noise and drastically lower market value which would severly lower tax revenue.

                    As someone who was expropriated, the COE severely underestimated the costs of expropriation by an order of magnitude and then kept the whole thing secret.

                    The Court battles alone would cost the COE 10's of millions
                    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.


                    • In reply to post #216.

                      Right you are, Captain Obvious.
                      It doesn't really obviate the fact that the left lane of the W/B Henday moves at 110 km an hour in that location.

                      What I proposed is most likely the only way that we will ever see a north-south free flow freeway.
                      It is 100% doable, but the cost of such a venture (with all of the required interchange structures), will not be practical for quite some time.

                      In our part of the world, personal vehicles (whether they are powered by gasoline, diesel, electric, hydrogen...or rainbows and unicorn farts for that matter) are not going away anytime soon.

                      As such? We are still going to need roads.

                      The proper completion of the "inner loop" (170, Yellowhead, Gretzky, and Whitemud) has been slowly inching toward realization over the years. That we are finally fixing the Yellowhead is a major step forward. 170 St. is functional as it sits, due to it's proximity to the ring road.
                      The next major roadwork priority after Yellowhead is complete needs to be fixing (I.e. building out) Terwilliger properly (in conjunction with the Province), which will include full build-out of the system interchange at the Anthony Henday.

                      Only after this part is done would any project on the east side (75th St.) gain relevance IMO.

                      In all likelihood I will either be dead, or living in an old folks home by this time anyways.

                      " Just another sad old man... All alone and dying of cancer...wohohh!!" (Roger Waters; Animals, Pink Floyd, 1977)


                      • Originally posted by yeggator View Post
                        Hello everyone. I'm a new member to C2E, but this is a thread that has kept me interested for some time. I've noticed that it's been inactive for a while, but I'm here to change that. Something I've noticed reading through this thread is that while people gave route suggestions and arguments for or against a north-south freeway, regardless of arguments, I want to visualize what I think a north-south freeway should look like for Edmonton. Below is a google slide with detailed maps showing the alignment of the freeway and its ramps.


                        For those of you who don't want to spare the time to take a look at it (or for annotations of the maps), here are the details.

                        North Side Alignment
                        • The north-south freeway would begin from the very northern city limit in the Edmonton Energy and Technology Park on the Highway 28A alignment (which would eventually connect to Highway 28 and Highway 63) going due south
                        • It would then curve southwest to follow the present-day Manning Drive alignment, and would then cross a large systems interchange with a potential new Outer Ring Road
                        • Still following the Manning Drive alignment, the freeway would cross the Henday, and the existing interchange would still be there, though one loop will be replaced with a flyover
                        • Still following Manning Drive route, there will be diamond interchanges with 167th Avenue and 153rd Avenue, a 144th Avenue overpass, diamond interchange with 50th Street and a 137th Avenue overpass
                        • The freeway would then curve south (and Fort Road would branch off of here) and curve southwest again, crossing through the site of the Sentinel Storage facility (it'll have to go ) and the abandoned Canadian Tire Store, through the Belvedere Park'n'Ride (will be relocated) and run just east of and parallel with the LRT tracks; two ramps will have access to 132nd Avenue
                        • The freeway would cross an interchange with 66th Street at an angle, and then it would cross Yellowhead Trail, with a giant spaghetti interchange that mostly occupies the south side of Yellowhead Trail (some buildings will need to be demolished here)
                        • The freeway would curve south and through those commercial areas with the strip club and hockey puck building (demolish them), cross an interchange with 118 Avenue, then follow the Wayne Gretzky Drive alignment
                        • It would pass under 112th Avenue, with ramps on the south side of the overpass only, before crossing the North Saskatchewan on a widened Capilano Bridge

                        South Side Alignment
                        • The freeway would pass under 106th Avenue, which would have ramps only north of the overpass, before curving towards the southwest and going through the Capilano Ravine, Forsland Park and then curving to travel due west towards downtown; 75th Street would slip off the freeway, and 98th Avenue would pass over it, with some ramps from NB freeway to EB 98th and WB 98th to SB freeway; houses would have to be demolished in this area (Forest Heights), but care would be taken to ensure Jewish cemetary is left alone
                        • The freeway would curve southwest through Gallagher Park and enter a tunnel under Connors Road and this big ridge, before resurfacing in the Mill Creek Ravine
                        • A small freeway spur would connect in Mill Creek going to the Low Level Bridge crossing (NB fwy to NB spur, SB spur to SB fwy)
                        • The freeway would travel south (pool needs to be demolished), with an interchange at Whyte Avenue, then travelling further south, crossing under 76th Avenue, and finally emerging from the ravine at an interchange with Argyll Road
                        • The freeway would continue due south, passing over 51st Avenue, then crossing over a large stack interchange at Whitemud Drive; Mill Woods Road overpass; interchange with 34th Avenue; 28th Avenue overpass; 23rd Avenue interchange
                        • The freeway would travel further south past the developed areas of the Research Park, then curve southwest through the fields and cross Anthony Henday Drive, where some ramps would be added to the adjacent systems interchange with Highway 2
                        • The north-south freeway now forms part of the envisioned collector-express system for the QEII highway between Edmonton and Leduc, where the Calgary Trail/Gateway Boulevard lanes become the collector lanes and the new north-south freeway forms the express lanes
                        • Interchange at Ellerslie Road; 30th Avenue SW should cross the QEII and connect to 25th Avenue SW, with an interchange here; interchange at 41st Avenue SW; freeway continues south as expanding QEII Highway

                        Other Notes About the Freeway:
                        • It should be designed for the speed limit to be 100 km/h within the Henday and 110 km/h outside of it
                        • Corridor should be able to accommodate 8-lane freeway (4 lanes per direction)
                        WOW! I went through you google slide show and quite enjoyed it! Honestly, something like this could potentially help with urban hear me out before I get attacked....IF you want people who work in Nisku or Fort Sask to live downtown, you have to give them quick north/south access to their place of work from their home. Having a freeway built along your alignment, would accomplish that, and could lead to further infill as commute times would be drastically reduced.


                        • A lot of thought and effort put into this slide show.
                          "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.


                          • Yes, a lot of thought and good graphics.

                            BUT putting a 100km/hr freeway down Mill Creek is a nonstarter for the detailed explanation that was given before and the political suicide that would come from promoting a hugely expensive freeway through neighborhoods that would see their home values destroyed and the incredible numbers of lawsuits that would be sure to follow.

                            Nonstarter for certain.
                            Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.


                            • With AHD there is less of a need for a north south freeway. Perhaps the LRT also helps to remove some traffic, might improve a bit when the Mill Woods LRT opens