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Neighbours should pitch in for big-city amenities, Edmonton mayor argues

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  • #16
    Fort Edmonton is getting some federal funding to upgrade its facilities.

    How much extra cost do patrons from outlying regions really add to the use of city facilities? The city should review whether library fees should remain free.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    • #17
      Let's post someone at LRT stations and on buses to check proof of residency. That should make things more efficient.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by kkozoriz View Post
        Originally posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
        A one time visit is different than a community that forked out money to build an entity for its citizen. I think that process is fair. The same would be applied if Edmontonian use the St. Albert or Sherwood Park's received Centre. Stop your insane postualtion! RAM is not an Edmonton tax funded but provincial, so process something this simple before yapping!
        So what are you going to do, base it on their home address? Live in Strathcona County and you pay more but if you live in Lamont County, you pay the same as Edmontonians? Someone from Leduc would pay more but not someone from Wetaskiwin?

        I admit I erred is using the RAM as an example but couldn't we do the same thing provincially? If you're from BC or Manitoba, you pay an extra fee to go to the RAM or go camping in a provincial park?

        Why not go national? Stick it to all those tourists who come here, don't pay taxes and use our facilities?
        This is about rec entres. If one is a REGULAR user then a monthly pass should be slighter higher as that will help offset the burden of Edmontonians.One has to show identification when one buys a pass which will then show which jurisdiction one is in. Edmontonians pay this much, and anyone outside of the city's limit pay an extra amount of this much - for the sake of argument we'll say 5 dollars extra per month. If one is a guest for 1 or two times that is different. Why do you have to make a simple process like it is a UN charter?
        " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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        • #19
          The mayor disagrees with you. As does the name of this thread

          Neighbours should pitch in for big-city amenities, Edmonton mayor argues
          a·men·i·ty
          noun
          plural noun: amenities
          a desirable or useful feature or facility of a building or place.

          Are rec centres the only thing you'd call amenities? What about QE or Borden Park pools? What about the single sheet rinks? Is the LRT desirable or useful? Is Churchill Square? What about the free movies that are shown in the square? Time for an ID check to make sure those sneaky St.Ablertans aren't ripping us off?

          Why do you have to make something more complex than it is? Are we going to maintain a database to make sure someone doesn't sneak in a third time without paying? Would your $5 fee be per rec centre or for all?

          Also, the arena is owned by the city as is Commonwealth. They're certainly "big city" amenities.

          You want the outlying areas to pay? Do it at a civic level. Of course, if they're paying then they should get a voice in how it's run, no?
          Last edited by kkozoriz; 09-12-2018, 07:39 PM.

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          • #20
            If I come in and see a play at the citadel, should I be charged more, or, am I helping the arts IN Edmonton? Iverson needs to rethink what he said..he really does. Rec centres? We have them, but the Enjoy spa and wellness centre in SA, is used by many, from Edmonton, don't they have spas there?
            Animals are my passion.

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            • #21
              The Citadel isn't owned by the city. Neither is the Jubilee.

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              • #22
                The
                Originally posted by H.L. View Post
                If I come in and see a play at the citadel, should I be charged more, or, am I helping the arts IN Edmonton? Iverson needs to rethink what he said..he really does. Rec centres? We have them, but the Enjoy spa and wellness centre in SA, is used by many, from Edmonton, don't they have spas there?
                It’s an interesting viewpoint. Much like the city admin wanting to charge the memorial park bench people a few hundred bucks a year in maintenance charges. I’d assumed that people buying those memorial benches were donating $2-3,000 bucks in exchange for a little memorial plaque saying it was dedicated to a loved one. Never thought that park benches were a huge burden on the City. Similarly if the City decides to lower the public access fees on facilities I wouldn’t have expected them to complain that the inevitability of seeing more users (from within and without) would be an unexpected burden.

                If the access/pricing needs to differentiate between citizens and non-citizens then why not simply have it differentiate between between citizens and non-citizens? (It’s a natural outcome of underpricing any service.) as for roads, etc. That’s why areas get annexed. It’s an old old solution.


                Additionally, before the facilities are built it would seem wise to ask thd neighbours to share in the cost? In exchange they could have some say in placement
                Last edited by KC; 10-12-2018, 05:45 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by kkozoriz View Post
                  Let's post someone at LRT stations and on buses to check proof of residency. That should make things more efficient.
                  Ever been to the Lower mainland? The Solution is simple. if you live in outlying regions you userpay more for transit. Different regions, different costs. If you want lines built out to outlying regions regional cost sharing is involved. Yet here we allow Strathcona and ST Albert route busses instead of them cost sharing in regional transit, vs their own specific transit. We even have a ETS bus going out to the Edmonton International airport, and the local shopping Center and hotels out there now. How much kick back is Edmonton getting from the IA, from all the facilities, businesses, that are only viable due to Edmonton? That only exist due to Edmonton.
                  "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Replacement View Post
                    Originally posted by kkozoriz View Post
                    Let's post someone at LRT stations and on buses to check proof of residency. That should make things more efficient.
                    Ever been to the Lower mainland? The Solution is simple. if you live in outlying regions you userpay more for transit. Different regions, different costs. If you want lines built out to outlying regions regional cost sharing is involved. Yet here we allow Strathcona and ST Albert route busses instead of them cost sharing in regional transit, vs their own specific transit. We even have a ETS bus going out to the Edmonton International airport, and the local shopping Center and hotels out there now. How much kick back is Edmonton getting from the IA, from all the facilities, businesses, that are only viable due to Edmonton? That only exist due to Edmonton.
                    i’m pretty sure eia subsidizes the 747 to the airport with hard cash (or at least they did when it started) and thought the county did as well. it might be the only break even route in the system as a result. regardless, it’s still primarily edmonton residents paying edmonton taxes who are riding it on roads maintained by others.
                    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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                    • #25
                      I can see both sides of this debate. There is no 'right answer' here. For many years, these smaller communities grew up on the amenities and services of the city of Edmonton, until they grew up big enough, and can now pay to build and maintain their own....

                      It's like Edmonton helped raise these kids (by providing services and amenities when they didn't have any/too small/too new to have any) , the kids are now moving out and providing for their own, but they are thankless for the years that they spooned off Edmonton as a parent, and never offer to help the parents now that they've moved out. Now that they have their own place, they stick their nose up at Edmonton and its problems. Social services? We don't need those out here, cause the parents have the problem! And anytime they do have big city problems, they usually offload those into Edmonton. How many homeless shelters and soup kitchens and other social programs from the vulnerable are out their for these child-cities? How often do they willing offer to help with these problems? Never?
                      Last edited by Medwards; 10-12-2018, 07:50 AM.
                      A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Replacement View Post
                        Originally posted by kkozoriz View Post
                        Let's post someone at LRT stations and on buses to check proof of residency. That should make things more efficient.
                        Ever been to the Lower mainland? The Solution is simple. if you live in outlying regions you userpay more for transit. Different regions, different costs. If you want lines built out to outlying regions regional cost sharing is involved. Yet here we allow Strathcona and ST Albert route busses instead of them cost sharing in regional transit, vs their own specific transit. We even have a ETS bus going out to the Edmonton International airport, and the local shopping Center and hotels out there now. How much kick back is Edmonton getting from the IA, from all the facilities, businesses, that are only viable due to Edmonton? That only exist due to Edmonton.
                        Isn't St. Albert and Strathcona County running their own busses better for the city than cost sharing? By running them they are paying costs. the cost to use the commuter bus is $6.10 per trip. Isn't that more than what a fare costs in the city?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Medwards View Post
                          I can see both sides of this debate. There is no 'right answer' here. For many years, these smaller communities grew up on the amenities and services of the city of Edmonton, until they grew up big enough, and can now pay to build and maintain their own....

                          It's like Edmonton helped raise these kids (by providing services and amenities when they didn't have any/too small/too new to have any) , the kids are now moving out and providing for their own, but they are thankless for the years that they spooned off Edmonton as a parent, and never offer to help the parents now that they've moved out. Now that they have their own place, they stick their nose up at Edmonton and its problems. Social services? We don't need those out here, cause the parents have the problem! And anytime they do have big city problems, they usually offload those into Edmonton. How many homeless shelters and soup kitchens and other social programs from the vulnerable are out their for these child-cities? How often do they willing offer to help with these problems? Never?

                          Shouldn't these social services be the responsibility of the province?

                          There is a women's shelter right behind my townhouse in Sherwood Park. It has been there since the mid 80's. So not never?

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                          • #28
                            They should... 100%. Social services are the responsibility of the province.... but if you look into it, you'll see who's paying for what.
                            A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Medwards View Post
                              They should... 100%. Social services are the responsibility of the province.... but if you look into it, you'll see who's paying for what.
                              and who do you think is paying for what when you factor in municipal infrastructure grants and matching grants and monies from the big city charter and grants in lieu for property taxes etc. that don't go to any of the surrounding municipalities even though they pay the same provincial taxes edmontonians do?

                              the problem is too many people - including our mayor - seem to be assuming this is a zero sum game - or a series of zero sum games - when it isn't.
                              "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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                              • #30
                                All I know is its a big mess, and there is no right or wrong opinion in this matter, and it really depends on a multitude of factors.

                                If you want my personal opinion, Edmonton should be allowed to annex the urban areas in the region, and a greenbelt limiting urban growth enforced by the province, similiar to how Ontario has done it for Ottawa or Toronto
                                A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

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