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  • Originally posted by Himser View Post
    Originally posted by Medwards View Post
    This isn't about commuting to job sites.

    this is about paying for social services, big city amenities and sucking off the tit of others, all while living in a tax shelter.

    When was the last time any of the outlying communities had to deal with the issues Edmonton has to deal with all alone. Edmonton pays for the social services of a city of 1.3 Million people, but only get revenue from .8 Million. seems fair eh sundance? These outlying communities - where do people go to shop? play? drink and eat? They for the most part come in to Edmonton... and Edmonton has to build roads and pay for services to support all this. Where do kids go for post-secondary? They come in to Edmonton. ETC ETC ETC ETC. The outlying communities put a great burden on the resources of the big city but do not contribute one single iota!
    No, Edmonton isn't allowed to put up a sales tax.

    So you are saying that Edmonton,,, is burdened by providing the place for all these suburbs to work, Play, Drink and Eat and Shop? and then they go home and pay their residential taxes to a suburb municipality?

    You do realise that all those things, (Work, Eat Drink, Play Shop) All pay the much much much higher and cost effective commercial or industrial taxes vs the measly residential taxes that LOSE money on every dollar they bring in... Yes such a burden on the city spending their money here, and then leaving.

    next i'm going to hear that tourists are bad because they might use a bus to get to Fort Edmonton.

    You may want to look up the concept of tourism (which is what ALL those things are[Yes even Post Secondary]) as a EXPORT that is GOOD for the LOCAL economy. Stop treating all those Suburb and Rural people as leeches and start treating them like the tourists they are.

    and even better they are tourists that come here, buy things and then leave, and use the social service of their own community which,, normally in the case of Suburb Cities and towns is paid for by Residential (highly cost inefficient) tax dollars.
    Sorry what are you saying? What ever it is, its borderline incomprehensible, senseless mumble jumble. You seem to think shopping in Edmonton stores while paying taxes to another municipality is enough to cover costs? Give your head a long, hard shake. Your rural bias shows strong, and clearly you fail to grasp to costs and pressures and burdens place upon Edmonton while all the bedroom towns soak up the good times. Again, Edmonton doesn't have a sales tax. By shopping in Edmonton, you think much money is transferred to the city?
    Last edited by Medwards; 05-08-2015, 06:46 AM.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Drumbones View Post
      There will be less desire or need to go into the city for a lot of people as the satellite communities become larger and have their own amenities. Imagine the different path had Daryl Katz been a proud resident of Leduc. The new arena could have been by the airport. In future you will see some very major developments outside the city limits. It's inevitable long term.
      Quit possibly, but then that takes Medwards argument away 100% as other municipalities provide more services.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Medwards View Post
        Originally posted by Himser View Post
        Originally posted by Medwards View Post
        This isn't about commuting to job sites.

        this is about paying for social services, big city amenities and sucking off the tit of others, all while living in a tax shelter.

        When was the last time any of the outlying communities had to deal with the issues Edmonton has to deal with all alone. Edmonton pays for the social services of a city of 1.3 Million people, but only get revenue from .8 Million. seems fair eh sundance? These outlying communities - where do people go to shop? play? drink and eat? They for the most part come in to Edmonton... and Edmonton has to build roads and pay for services to support all this. Where do kids go for post-secondary? They come in to Edmonton. ETC ETC ETC ETC. The outlying communities put a great burden on the resources of the big city but do not contribute one single iota!
        No, Edmonton isn't allowed to put up a sales tax.

        So you are saying that Edmonton,,, is burdened by providing the place for all these suburbs to work, Play, Drink and Eat and Shop? and then they go home and pay their residential taxes to a suburb municipality?

        You do realise that all those things, (Work, Eat Drink, Play Shop) All pay the much much much higher and cost effective commercial or industrial taxes vs the measly residential taxes that LOSE money on every dollar they bring in... Yes such a burden on the city spending their money here, and then leaving.

        next i'm going to hear that tourists are bad because they might use a bus to get to Fort Edmonton.

        You may want to look up the concept of tourism (which is what ALL those things are[Yes even Post Secondary]) as a EXPORT that is GOOD for the LOCAL economy. Stop treating all those Suburb and Rural people as leeches and start treating them like the tourists they are.

        and even better they are tourists that come here, buy things and then leave, and use the social service of their own community which,, normally in the case of Suburb Cities and towns is paid for by Residential (highly cost inefficient) tax dollars.
        Sorry what are you saying? What ever it is, its borderline incomprehensible, senseless mumble jumble. You seem to think shopping in Edmonton stores while paying taxes to another municipality is enough to cover costs? Give your head a long, hard shake. Your rural bias shows strong, and clearly you fail to grasp to costs and pressures and burdens place upon Edmonton while all the bedroom towns soak up the good times. Again, Edmonton doesn't have a sales tax. By shopping in Edmonton, you think much money is transferred to the city?
        Yes, because every dollar spent in Edmonton vs Leduc or Spruce Grove strengthe the local economy at the EXPENSE of their home municipality. It's the SAME free ken argument that people use to say the counties are hurting edmonton by having industrial areas.

        I may seem bias to you because I care about the region as a whole. Including the city and the suburbs and the Rural areas. Obviously you have no such regard for the region. Only the City matters.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Himser View Post
          Yes, because every dollar spent in Edmonton vs Leduc or Spruce Grove strengthe the local economy at the EXPENSE of their home municipality. It's the SAME free ken argument that people use to say the counties are hurting edmonton by having industrial areas. .
          Basically the jealousy argument, "if strathcona didn't exist, such and such refinery would be built in Edmonton" - well, is that true? I don't know, maybe the business taxes were so horrible in Edmonton that it would have been built outside Red Deer if Strathcona hadn't been there? Same for the businesses in Leduc.

          Competition is a good thing, tourisim is as well.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Himser View Post

            I may seem bias to you because I care about the region as a whole. Including the city and the suburbs and the Rural areas. Obviously you have no such regard for the region. Only the City matters.
            If you care about the region as a whole, how do you share the costs that Edmonton is burden with? Where are the homeless shelters in Strathcona County? Where are the soup kitchens and social programs in Leduc? No where? All that burden and many others are offloaded from the outlying towns and pushed on to Edmonton - with no offer to help pay for those things that a REGION requires. It's time to pay up or amalgamate.

            It would seem you care only about the region at the expense of the city. Try looking at the region and the city as a whole, you'll soon realize that there is major cost savings and efficientices in working together as a single entity rather than 26 chefs making one soup.
            A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by moahunter View Post
              Originally posted by Himser View Post
              Yes, because every dollar spent in Edmonton vs Leduc or Spruce Grove strengthe the local economy at the EXPENSE of their home municipality. It's the SAME free ken argument that people use to say the counties are hurting edmonton by having industrial areas. .
              Basically the jealousy argument, "if strathcona didn't exist, such and such refinery would be built in Edmonton" - well, is that true? I don't know, maybe the business taxes were so horrible in Edmonton that it would have been built outside Red Deer if Strathcona hadn't been there? Same for the businesses in Leduc.

              Competition is a good thing, tourism is as well.
              Competition between cities/jurisdictions for factories/businesses/jobs is NOT a good thing. Government funded infrastructure and tax breaks for desired new businesses (Dell, anyone?) is unfair and ultimately counterproductive. Nobody wins when neighbouring municipalities fight over a walmart, and nobody wins when they fight over a refinery.

              Comment


              • I don't want to wade into this too much, because I just don't feel knowledgeable enough about it. However, what role does the Capital Regional Planning Board have in this, if any?

                I'm fine with the bedroom communities developing into satellite cities on their own, but there needs to be rules to the game they all agree to play by.

                In Calgary recently, there was a public riff between Nenshi and Rocky Mountain View County:

                http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ding-1.2964630

                Comment


                • the CRB has been a good step in the right direction, but needs more power - which may be coming. A good start would be a regional transit service.

                  No, I'm not advocating for current Edmonton city council to take over control of everything. My real idea in short would be to dissovle all local governments+administration and form new regional governance, new wards that make sense for the region... etc.
                  Last edited by Medwards; 05-08-2015, 12:43 PM.
                  A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Snake Eyes View Post
                    I don't want to wade into this too much, because I just don't feel knowledgeable enough about it. However, what role does the Capital Regional Planning Board have in this, if any?

                    I'm fine with the bedroom communities developing into satellite cities on their own, but there needs to be rules to the game they all agree to play by.

                    In Calgary recently, there was a public riff between Nenshi and Rocky Mountain View County:

                    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ding-1.2964630
                    Calgary holds most of the water licenses and uses this to their advantage. Nenshi is also super proactive about 'ensuring' other counties don't steal Calgary's growth. His tactics can are certainly brazen. Recently he went to a small town Council meeting to basically berate their expansion plans.

                    Edmonton has always taken a bit more of a conciliatory approach. I don't think it has really worked in our favour. CRB is important, Edmonton's veto also important, but we need to do more to ensure growth is planned and is in the best interest of Edmonton first.
                    www.decl.org

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by highlander View Post
                      Competition between cities/jurisdictions for factories/businesses/jobs is NOT a good thing. Government funded infrastructure and tax breaks for desired new businesses (Dell, anyone?) is unfair and ultimately counterproductive. Nobody wins when neighbouring municipalities fight over a walmart, and nobody wins when they fight over a refinery.
                      In theory you are right, but in reality, it exists. If Strathcona hadn't done what it took years ago to get all those refineries and faciliteis, maybe they would all be in Inisfail today? So its a good thing Strathcona secured that, I have no certainty at all that COE would have had the competency to.

                      Comment


                      • It has more to do with where the pipeline is, and the railways. A lower tax rate certainly greased the wheels as to which side of the border it fell on.
                        A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

                        Comment


                        • It seems like more than just a coincidence that practically the entire oilfield service industry fell into Leduc. Was it incompetence and greed that kept all of that out of the COE, or just bad luck. I think the former. Now its the sour grapes thing happening. I wanted to say that if Medwards was living in most any other jurisdiction excepting that of Calgary in North America that Windermere would be a separate city or part of a neighboring county. That must be why he lives here where he can be in the suburbs and the city at the same time, best of both worlds. I think he has some good points but I doubt we will ever become a mega city. If we did then Wetaskiwin, Camrose, Millet, Westlock and other communities just outside the mega city would be flourishing and then what. Add them in? Eventually it would just lead to greater sprawl than ever. I would like to see Edmonton get annexation passed, but only to Township Rd 510 and the Crossroads Industrial area that Leduc never developed and excluding any already developed areas. Sherwood Park and Strathcona are now at 100,000 population. It will be nice to see surrounding cities with larger populations like Vancouver has. Then Edmonton can concentrate on density within the city itself. We are now at 1,350,000 with the city itself at 900,000. Two million is getting closer every day. Can you imagine it?
                          Just enjoying another day in paradise.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Medwards View Post
                            Originally posted by Himser View Post

                            I may seem bias to you because I care about the region as a whole. Including the city and the suburbs and the Rural areas. Obviously you have no such regard for the region. Only the City matters.
                            If you care about the region as a whole, how do you share the costs that Edmonton is burden with? Where are the homeless shelters in Strathcona County? Where are the soup kitchens and social programs in Leduc? No where? All that burden and many others are offloaded from the outlying towns and pushed on to Edmonton - with no offer to help pay for those things that a REGION requires. It's time to pay up or amalgamate.

                            It would seem you care only about the region at the expense of the city. Try looking at the region and the city as a whole, you'll soon realize that there is major cost savings and efficientices in working together as a single entity rather than 26 chefs making one soup.
                            I don't know if the women there are homeless but there is a woman's shelter right behind my rental property in Sherwood Park. They don't have a big sign or anything like that because they want to keep their address confidential. I don't think it is for the exclusive use of Strathcona County residents. There is a Strathcona County food bank as well.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Drumbones View Post
                              It seems like more than just a coincidence that practically the entire oilfield service industry fell into Leduc.
                              Really? I'm pretty sure the oilfield industry is split between Fort Sask, Strathcona County, Edmonton and Leduc County (Nisku). Might the international airport location have something to do with Nisku?? Probably.


                              Was it incompetence and greed that kept all of that out of the COE, or just bad luck. I think the former.
                              Lower industrial tax rates certainly had something to do with it. Being in promixity to a major population base too, had something to do with it. Being on the major pipeline... had a lot to do with it.

                              Now its the sour grapes thing happening.
                              Sour Grapes? I don't get this comment. We need to figure out how to make this region work better. This has nothing to do with a vendetta against Leduc, or hating St Albert. My opinion and comments on this subject have all to do with making this region more competitive on the world market, reducing duplication of services, duplication of administration, which is all something we can all benefit from.

                              I wanted to say that if Medwards was living in most any other jurisdiction excepting that of Calgary in North America that Windermere would be a separate city or part of a neighboring county.
                              Windermere would be part of most major cities, and not just Calgary. Winnipeg, Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto (I name those because they have all gone through some sort of annexation or amalagamation), but there is plenty of other places where windermere would be part of the main city.

                              That must be why he lives here where he can be in the suburbs and the city at the same time, best of both worlds.
                              I see you like to make grossly incorrect assumptions. Since your not asking, here's why I live in Windermere: It's a 5 minute walk to my work, and a 5 minute walk to the grocery stores, and a 5 minute walk to the movie theater and a 5 minute walk to just about any where I need to go, and great transit service to downtown. From door to door in 45 minutes! Not bad! I'm not sure what the best of both worlds means, but certainly, I'm taking advantage of the close proximity to my place of employment. If my place of employment was somewhere else, you can bet the I would soon move somewhere close to my place of employment. Sherwood Park, downtown, St Albert, Northside, east side... Why? Because I hate spending hours commuting. Got it? Great. Lets go back to the debate

                              I think he has some good points but I doubt we will ever become a mega city.
                              Megacity? I'm just talking about making this region more competitive on the world market, create efficienticies where theres huge amount of waste. Tell me why you think we need 26 chefs making the same soup?

                              If we did then Wetaskiwin, Camrose, Millet, Westlock and other communities just outside the mega city would be flourishing and then what.
                              Green Belt. No urban developments within the green belt. Wetaskiwin, Camrose, Millet, Westlock and other communities are much to far to see many people living there to commute to the region for work on a regular basis.

                              Add them in?
                              Exclude them. Green Belt. They are too far out anyways to make commuter towns.

                              Eventually it would just lead to greater sprawl than ever.
                              again, green belt. Plus, Edmonton builds are a lot more dense than what is purposed for most of the region by the Leduc Countys and Sturegon countys propose.

                              I would like to see Edmonton get annexation passed, but only to Township Rd 510 and the Crossroads Industrial area that Leduc never developed and excluding any already developed areas. Sherwood Park and Strathcona are now at 100,000 population.
                              I would like to see all municipalties and towns and cities including Edmonton dissolved and a new region governance put in place that respects the needs and wishes of the entire region, and competitive puts the region on the world market place. We are stronger together than competing against each other, and that's exactly what happens.

                              It will be nice to see surrounding cities with larger populations like Vancouver has. Then Edmonton can concentrate on density within the city itself. We are now at 1,350,000 with the city itself at 900,000. Two million is getting closer every day. Can you imagine it?
                              The GVRD is a great example of regional governance working. Sure its not amalagamation, or annexation, but look at their approach to transit, and then compare our 6 different transit services we have here. Same could happen for many civic departments. Why do we need 26 different EMS and police services and the 26 different adminstrations... so much waste. This is only the tip of the icebergs on how inefficient we are as a region.

                              Stop thinking this is "Edmonton city hall" trying to rule all with my idea. It's not. My plan (which is much different that just a simple landgrab/annexation) starts with removing all local governments and starting fresh, under one banner, a game plan for the entire region together, instead of 26 chefs making the same humble pie with their own idea of what the receipe should be, but all competing for the same limited amount of ingredients, driving up costs.
                              Last edited by Medwards; 05-08-2015, 04:45 PM.
                              A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by SP59 View Post
                                Originally posted by Medwards View Post
                                Originally posted by Himser View Post

                                I may seem bias to you because I care about the region as a whole. Including the city and the suburbs and the Rural areas. Obviously you have no such regard for the region. Only the City matters.
                                If you care about the region as a whole, how do you share the costs that Edmonton is burden with? Where are the homeless shelters in Strathcona County? Where are the soup kitchens and social programs in Leduc? No where? All that burden and many others are offloaded from the outlying towns and pushed on to Edmonton - with no offer to help pay for those things that a REGION requires. It's time to pay up or amalgamate.

                                It would seem you care only about the region at the expense of the city. Try looking at the region and the city as a whole, you'll soon realize that there is major cost savings and efficientices in working together as a single entity rather than 26 chefs making one soup.
                                I don't know if the women there are homeless but there is a woman's shelter right behind my rental property in Sherwood Park. They don't have a big sign or anything like that because they want to keep their address confidential. I don't think it is for the exclusive use of Strathcona County residents. There is a Strathcona County food bank as well.
                                There's still a major imbalance on a per capita basis of who provides what. Edmonton is providing the lion share of the needs. I'd bet that in McCauley alone, there is more social services that the rest of the region beyond Edmonton borders combined.
                                A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

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