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  • #31
    Could we get back on topic please?
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

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    • #32
      BTW, this decision is a month old. Postmedia fail.
      www.decl.org

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      • #33
        Originally posted by RichardS View Post
        Originally posted by kcantor View Post
        (...) other than a lack of willingness and support to do just that.

        I know we're not supposed to just say bingo...so does my preamble count...oh "quality of post overlords"?
        So Villeneuve needs to increase tax base to support the upgrades to the water and sewer to make the airport viable.

        Villeneuve steps up to do it on their own initiative and get shot down by the Captial Board Vetos and berated here.......hmmmm

        So far...
        - EIA hasn't made the improvements
        - COE hasn't offered to help with Vill
        - The Province has not yet committed

        and we have an airport closing.

        The road improvements will be required for safe medivac anyway.

        Interesting problem and the clock is ticking.

        Does anyone else see the quandary of affordable housing with no bus service or transit being unworkable?

        You know, lower income workers not being able to afford to commute.

        Anyone else figure out that the market for what they are offering is such that it will just more to the Capital Region's edge on really good farm land, instead of beside an airport.

        Just expressing an opinion but.......
        Last edited by Thomas Hinderks; 05-09-2012, 09:57 PM. Reason: word change

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Medwards View Post
          Could we get back on topic please?

          Thank you ...

          ...for while this conversation on suburban vs urbanista is full of new information since the last 32 rounds of this discussion...oops...it introduced exburb...yippee...


          ...this sprawl conversation is a red herring...St Albert doesn't have an anti-sprawl agenda...the thread this broke off of was called St Albert annexation...they are just against more lots on their border that are twice the size...with half the cost to buy...and 2/3 less taxation...

          ...even more of a red herring is the Edmonton position as presented by Con. Gibbons

          http://www.630ched.com/news/edmonton...spx?ID=1767520


          ...right...becasue there is not an example in Alberta of a city that would send aviation services...say scheduled ones...or charter...or medivac...

          ...to another airport....

          ...not within its boundaries...

          ...and not receive tax benefit for it...

          ...but still financially, physically, and in every promotional way support it anyway...

          ...and do this willingly because this is the right and good decision...good for the region per se...


          no...none at all...
          President and CEO - Airshow.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
            So Villeneuve needs to increase tax base to support the upgrades to the water and sewer to make the airport viable.

            Villeneuve steps up to do it on their own initiative and get shot down by the Captial Board Vetos and berated here.......hmmmm

            So far...
            - EIA hasn't made the improvements
            - COE hasn't offered to help with Vill
            - The Province has not yet committed

            and we have an airport closing.

            The road improvements will be required for safe medivac anyway.

            Interesting problem and the clock is ticking.

            Does anyone else see the quandary of affordable housing with no bus service or transit being unworkable?

            You know, lower income workers not being able to afford to commute.

            Anyone else figure out that the market for what they are offering is such that it will just more to the Capital Region's edge on really good farm land, instead of beside an airport.

            Just expressing an opinion but.......
            First I've heard that Villeneuve is being considered for medivac. What is the source for this information? I'd been under the impression that medivac was moving to the International.

            Until I am informed otherwise, connecting the Villeneuve mega-hamlet ASP to airport improvements seems like a clever ruse by Sturgeon County to apply pressure to the City to not veto the proposal. Improvements to Villeneuve airport are the responsibility of Edmonton Airports, not Sturgeon County or the City of Edmonton.

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            • #36
              First I've heard that Villeneuve is being considered for medivac. What is the source for this information?
              Well you can start with RichardS's link above and search the media reports...it has been an option for months.

              Improvements to Villeneuve airport are the responsibility of Edmonton Airports, not Sturgeon County or the City of Edmonton.
              Sewer and water are not part of the airport but are an essential part of making it work. A cistern can only carry you so far.

              More over, what major improvements have happened in the last (2) decades at Vill?

              Water and sewer are still an issue as an example.
              Last edited by Thomas Hinderks; 06-09-2012, 08:36 PM. Reason: wording

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              • #37
                Originally posted by East McCauley View Post

                First I've heard that Villeneuve is being considered for medivac. What is the source for this information? I'd been under the impression that medivac was moving to the International.

                Until I am informed otherwise, connecting the Villeneuve mega-hamlet ASP to airport improvements seems like a clever ruse by Sturgeon County to apply pressure to the City to not veto the proposal. Improvements to Villeneuve airport are the responsibility of Edmonton Airports, not Sturgeon County or the City of Edmonton.

                ...first you've heard...sorry then...ZVL has ALWAYS been talked about as the alternate landing site for medivac...in fact...many promises were made during the conversation in 2009 that actually had improvements to ZVL on the table to support medivac, larger private aircraft that you do not want in the circuit at YEG, and yet another opportunity to expand the aviation industry in the region...the circular conversation has always been who pays for it...

                ...it even has the ability to handle more than YXD could...and I am not suggesting scheduled service...

                ...clever ruse...or an attempt to pay for a development and extend the necessary infrastructure...tomato, tomatoe...

                I will not pretend for one second that I am impressed that the development being tethered to ZVL's improvements...but I am even less impressed that after 20+ years ZVL is still being treated like the red headed stepchild of the aviation assets...

                ...and be careful on the "who pays" bit...while EIA does become the funding engine and asset operator...and they go through rigorous board approvals and investor meetings just like any organization...they get grants from all levels of government to make some necessary accomodations...and with proper documentation and capital IRR presentations...even get backstopped...they are first and foremost a transportation engine and logistics hub for this region..which puts the interest of the Province and Feds intrinsicly involved in the success..the C of E as well as others pitch in with various assitance and funding...it doesn't have to be direct cash in hand...


                ...the game has to end...there is a solution...but it isn't free...
                President and CEO - Airshow.

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                • #38
                  Thank you Tom Hinderks.

                  Villeneuve had a solution to pay for the water and sewer improvements that are needed at Villeneuve Airport for when YXD is shut down. That is, grow the community of Villeneuve to pay for it.

                  The City of Edmonton vetoed it. I guess this means Councillor Gibbons will be voting in favour of the City of Edmonton and Edmonton Airports to lay pipe to Villeneuve before YXD is closed. Correct?

                  BTW, anyword on the new ILS and the extension of Rwy 16/34? Villeneuve, not Calgary, not Red Deer, will be the back up sight for the medivacs. Anyone who has been buy YEG lately may have seen a big hanger with STARS on the side, when are they moving out ot YEG?

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                  • #39
                    BTW, anyword on the new ILS and the extension of Rwy 16/34?
                    Haven't heard word one...

                    That said after Mr. Gibbon's after this veto and Mr. Gibbon's comments I would guess the push will be back on Namao.

                    My opinion

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
                      BTW, anyword on the new ILS and the extension of Rwy 16/34?
                      Haven't heard word one...

                      That said after Mr. Gibbon's after this veto and Mr. Gibbon's comments I would guess the push will be back on Namao.

                      My opinion
                      i have not "heard word one" either but have heard rumors about ils and a runway extension to 6,500' along with a commented "only 8 minutes to the hospital". like you this is all "my opinion only" but my opinion only is that it's too bad this got sidetracked with a rural subdivision application/discussion because it's been out off far too long already. we have a successful model to emulate already in springbank and the longer we take the more difficult we make it. how "edmontonian".
                      "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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                      • #41
                        Thank you Ken
                        we have a successful model to emulate already in springbank
                        So successful it''s repeating all the traditional mistakes.

                        http://www.liveinharmony.ca/overall-plan.html

                        Wonder how soon after development the noise complaints will start?

                        Mind you the infrastructure it brings to Springbank Airport is a major advantage to it's future growth....like the Villeneuve proposal.

                        BTW
                        Why is it that the public has this need to build adjacent to the airport and then complain there's an airport?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
                          Thank you Ken
                          we have a successful model to emulate already in springbank
                          So successful it''s repeating all the traditional mistakes.

                          http://www.liveinharmony.ca/overall-plan.html

                          Wonder how soon after development the noise complaints will start?

                          Mind you the infrastructure it brings to Springbank Airport is a major advantage to it's future growth....like the Villeneuve proposal.

                          BTW
                          Why is it that the public has this need to build adjacent to the airport and then complain there's an airport?
                          i was referring to springbank as an airport, not an overall development model but even so - as with the recent villeneuve decision - there is a lot of opposition to harmony, to the point where i wonder if they had been bundled at the beginning they may well have hit the same brick wall early and gone nowhere.

                          as for your last question, assuming it's not a rhetorical one, i'm not sure it's a public need as individuals (which i would question) or a combination of not enough foresight when selecting the airport location initially (remember the still current complaints of hiw distant eia is?) combined with a lack of political will to prevent it (which ironically is what's being objected to here ).
                          "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by kcantor View Post
                            (...)i have not "heard word one" either but have heard rumors about ils and a runway extension to 6,500' along with a commented "only 8 minutes to the hospital".

                            (...)

                            already. we have a successful model to emulate already in springbank and the longer we take the more difficult we make it. how "edmontonian".

                            ...I certainly hope that the 6,500' extension rumour is correct...that is the length I, and others, have been pushing for...not the 5,000' that keeps surfacing on the rumour mill....

                            ...6,500X150' would be awesome...but adds cost...6,500X100' will do for most aircraft that would use this...150 just adds ZVL as an IFR alt for YEG for flight planning to more aircraft...

                            ...ILS would be a part as well...discussion on some av boards have this plan well discussed...even the $$$ amount...just, yet again, is a discussion on whose $$$$ it is...and I don't take that discussion flippantly...I firmly beleive there is a great business model at ZVL that could outperform Springbank (YBW)...especially since there is a better runway configuration...and other really great assets...


                            ...as for the bolded part... is all I can say
                            President and CEO - Airshow.

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