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City debt increases by 700% in just over 10 years

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  • City debt increases by 700% in just over 10 years

    Mayoral candidate and current city councillour, Kerry Diotte, wants to know how much your property taxes has increased over the years.

    Did you know that Edmonton's debt has increased by 700% in over a decade?

    And, in the last 10 years alone (2004-2013), Edmonton property taxes have gone up an average of 50%.

    Read Kerry's latest post on this and feel free to share your property tax stories!

    Visit www.kerrydiotte.com

    Sincerely,

    Jasmine Franklin

  • #2
    ^And, in the last 10 years alone (2004-2013), Edmonton property taxes have gone up an average of 50%

    Well, I think it could be safe to say that house prices have gone up by 50% from the 2003 levels. Higher assessment = higher taxes. One also just has to look at how the city has grown with new development in that same time frame to realize they had to collect more taxes to sustain growth. School taxes have also gone up in that period of time. When the school taxes are put on the same bill as city taxes it makes the pothole brigade blow a gasket because psychologically the amount due looks bigger and there brains short circuit and they cannot separate the two. There will always be death and taxes. Add to all that the city employees that need to be paid a fair wage to keep up with their growing costs. You cannot pay them more if the city does not collect more taxes.
    My tax story, well my house has at least doubled in value in the last 10 years, but then again so has bread, milk, eggs, utilities and a whole host of other things. It's called 'inflation', look it up.
    Last edited by Gemini; 12-06-2013, 07:18 PM.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Gemini View Post
      Well, I think it could be safe to say that house prices have gone up by 50% from the 2003 levels. Higher assessment = higher taxes.
      Not true. Higher assessments do not mean higher taxes. Only if your assessment is growing faster than the rest of the houses in the city.

      What a well thought out and eloquent post by Mr Diotte. He clearly explains why the debt has increased and what projects/programs he would cut to reduce the debt level and our tax burden.

      Wait, you mean he didn't? Just mindless 'i will lower taxes' tripe? oh.

      Comment


      • #4
        city's debt have increase due to city's population growth.
        Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by nobleea View Post
          Originally posted by Gemini View Post
          Well, I think it could be safe to say that house prices have gone up by 50% from the 2003 levels. Higher assessment = higher taxes.
          Not true. Higher assessments do not mean higher taxes. Only if your assessment is growing faster than the rest of the houses in the city.

          What a well thought out and eloquent post by Mr Diotte. He clearly explains why the debt has increased and what projects/programs he would cut to reduce the debt level and our tax burden.

          Wait, you mean he didn't? Just mindless 'i will lower taxes' tripe? oh.
          Oh, here am I thinking the city uses the market value assessment of a home to assess the taxes. Since the market value of nearly 99% of the houses in Edmonton have risen in the last 10 years one would have thought that is why the taxes have risen. What was I thinking...............

          ^Jag, you have a point. It would be interesting to get stats on how the city has grown in the last 10-20 years, in size and population.
          Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

          Comment


          • #6
            Or we could follow Diotte's model of not spending anything on infrastructure that was needed decades ago and let everyone fend for themselves in a world that falls apart.
            $2.00 $2.25 $2.50 $2.75 $2.85 $3.00 $3.20 $3.25

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, Edmonton *is* a city, and the city needed to pay to make our LRT go somewhere, plus they need to catch up on repairing all these crumbling roads, sidewalks, sewers, storm drains, and bridges somehow.

              Former councils cheaped out too much too often, and we have to pay for it now.

              Great math, too - 700% of practically nothing is only 7 times that.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gemini View Post
                Originally posted by nobleea View Post
                Originally posted by Gemini View Post
                Well, I think it could be safe to say that house prices have gone up by 50% from the 2003 levels. Higher assessment = higher taxes.
                Not true. Higher assessments do not mean higher taxes. Only if your assessment is growing faster than the rest of the houses in the city.
                Oh, here am I thinking the city uses the market value assessment of a home to assess the taxes. Since the market value of nearly 99% of the houses in Edmonton have risen in the last 10 years one would have thought that is why the taxes have risen. What was I thinking...............
                That line is incorrect. I assume you're being facetious, but its hard to tell with the internet. The increase in taxes has everything to do with the city's budget and almost nothing to do with the increase in your home's assessment (unless you did substantial renovations).

                "Municipal property taxes are affected by two factors:

                The City budget for all services and programs for the year.
                Edmonton's total market value assessment.

                These two factors determine the tax rate, which fairly distributes the costs of services among all Edmonton properties:

                City budget ÷ total city property assessment = municipal tax rate

                If the budget increases, property taxes will likely increase. For 2013, the overall increase for residential property taxes (including apartments) is 3.3%.
                The tax rate and your property’s market value assessment are then used to calculate municipal property taxes:

                Your property’s market value assessment X tax rate = municipal property taxes

                If your property’s assessed value changed more or less than the average change in Edmonton, your tax increase will be more or less than the average tax increase."

                http://www.edmonton.ca/for_residents...tax-facts.aspx

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jstock View Post
                  Or we could follow Diotte's model of not spending anything on infrastructure that was needed decades ago and let everyone fend for themselves in a world that falls apart.
                  Odd comment?.. Diotte's priority, as I read it, is to spend on essential infrastructure rather than p!ssing it away on vanity projects and shiny baubles.
                  "The only really positive thing one could say about Vancouver is, it’s not the rest of Canada." Oink (britishexpats.com)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Out of those past 10 years, Diotte sat in council and did nothing about it for 3 years. If elected, he'll continue to do nothing. Yay for doing nothing!

                    Jasmine Franklin is a paid promoter of Kerry Diotte (Communications Coordinator, Coun. Kerry Diotte)
                    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nobleea View Post
                      Originally posted by Gemini View Post
                      Originally posted by nobleea View Post
                      Originally posted by Gemini View Post
                      Well, I think it could be safe to say that house prices have gone up by 50% from the 2003 levels. Higher assessment = higher taxes.
                      Not true. Higher assessments do not mean higher taxes. Only if your assessment is growing faster than the rest of the houses in the city.
                      Oh, here am I thinking the city uses the market value assessment of a home to assess the taxes. Since the market value of nearly 99% of the houses in Edmonton have risen in the last 10 years one would have thought that is why the taxes have risen. What was I thinking...............
                      That line is incorrect. I assume you're being facetious, but its hard to tell with the internet. The increase in taxes has everything to do with the city's budget and almost nothing to do with the increase in your home's assessment (unless you did substantial renovations).

                      "Municipal property taxes are affected by two factors:

                      The City budget for all services and programs for the year.
                      Edmonton's total market value assessment.

                      These two factors determine the tax rate, which fairly distributes the costs of services among all Edmonton properties:

                      City budget ÷ total city property assessment = municipal tax rate

                      If the budget increases, property taxes will likely increase. For 2013, the overall increase for residential property taxes (including apartments) is 3.3%.
                      The tax rate and your property’s market value assessment are then used to calculate municipal property taxes:

                      Your property’s market value assessment X tax rate = municipal property taxes

                      If your property’s assessed value changed more or less than the average change in Edmonton, your tax increase will be more or less than the average tax increase."

                      http://www.edmonton.ca/for_residents...tax-facts.aspx
                      Well you have just basically said what I said only you added a few more characters to get to the point and cloud the waters.
                      Your property price usually rises (or falls) on supply and demand and what the market can bear. The 'market' is the buying consumer. If there is a supply shortage and a big demand property prices rise. Therefore the market value for your house goes up. The city assesses your house at the market value. The market value of 99% of the houses in Edmonton has gone up in the last 10 years. (surely Diotte knows this).Yes, there will be variables in houses that are even side by side. You might have built a garage, have a fire place, fixed your basement and the only improvement you neighbor has made is mirrors on the bedroom ceiling. Some houses are going to be worth more than others because of this. Still does not get away from the fact the city calculates your taxes on the fair market value of your house. Market value for your house x municipal mill rate = your tax bill. Remember, the mill rate can also change. (If I was being sarcastic I would have put this after my post.
                      Last edited by Gemini; 12-06-2013, 09:34 PM.
                      Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by expat View Post
                        Originally posted by jstock View Post
                        Or we could follow Diotte's model of not spending anything on infrastructure that was needed decades ago and let everyone fend for themselves in a world that falls apart.
                        Odd comment?.. Diotte's priority, as I read it, is to spend on essential infrastructure rather than p!ssing it away on vanity projects and shiny baubles.
                        1% of an infrastructure project's budget goes toward public art. Peanuts.
                        $2.00 $2.25 $2.50 $2.75 $2.85 $3.00 $3.20 $3.25

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JasmineFranklin View Post
                          Mayoral candidate and current city councillour, Kerry Diotte, wants to know how much your property taxes has increased over the years.

                          Did you know that Edmonton's debt has increased by 700% in over a decade?

                          And, in the last 10 years alone (2004-2013), Edmonton property taxes have gone up an average of 50%.

                          Read Kerry's latest post on this and feel free to share your property tax stories!

                          Visit www.kerrydiotte.com

                          Sincerely,

                          Jasmine Franklin
                          Well, since moving to Edmonton three years ago, I've spent just shy of $4K on vehicle repairs as a direct result of our roads (i.e. cracked oil pan, new tires, alignment tie-rods, etc.) so I'd gladly pay higher municipal taxes if it meant I didn't have to do that. You can take that back to Kerry.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Market value is very loosely correlated with replacement cost so in that sense one can expect taxes to rise as construction, maintenance, land and other costs rise. If its happening to property owners then its probably happening to the city too, to some extent. The doubling and tripling of house prices in the last decade though did not directly cause taxes to rise via the tax formula.


                            http://www.edmonton.ca/for_residents...tax-facts.aspx
                            "Setting taxes
                            Each year the City determines the budget required to pay for the services and programs for the year. As part of this process, it determines the amount of the total budget that the City must bring in from property taxes. Then it uses assessed property values to determine each property owner’s share of the total property tax revenue required.

                            Overall market value changes do not affect the total revenue the City collects from the property tax. The City only collects enough taxes to realize the revenue required in the budget.

                            The tax rate
                            Municipal property taxes are affected by two factors:

                            The City budget for all services and programs for the year.
                            Edmonton's total market value assessment.
                            These two factors determine the tax rate, which fairly distributes the costs of services among all Edmonton properties:

                            City budget ÷ total city property assessment = municipal tax rate ..."
                            Last edited by KC; 12-06-2013, 10:49 PM. Reason: Add city website info.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by expat View Post
                              Originally posted by jstock View Post
                              Or we could follow Diotte's model of not spending anything on infrastructure that was needed decades ago and let everyone fend for themselves in a world that falls apart.
                              Odd comment?.. Diotte's priority, as I read it, is to spend on essential infrastructure rather than p!ssing it away on vanity projects and shiny baubles.
                              I doubt relatively little over the past ten years went towards baubles. Most of it would have gone for essential infrastructure, either catchup on deferred maintenance and replacement or new infrastructure related to the city's growth.

                              Generally, voters demand restraint and cost control when recessionary times hit and then loosen up like mad when good times return. As a result they miss opportunities to finance cheaply or spend when wages are depressed, then when the economy improves they compound their error by pilling on costs as wage and material costs rise. A philosophy comparable to the investment world's buy high, sell low habit if you will. Crazy as it is, if hard times return, watch the public then demand restraint in a big way.

                              So here we are again much like the very early 1980s. Remember the bumper sticker: "Please God, let there be another oil boom and this time I promise not to p _ _ _ it all away."

                              Some quick, random thoughts... the EdTel fund, if it's still around, has likely returned once in a lifetime or two, or three, returns on its bond allocation. Going forward, prospective returns may not funnel much into City coffers if that's what has been done to date. A shift to equities? Double jeopardy. City debt? - rising yields, if they ever come, will raise the risk on rolling debt. Good thing they've borrowed cheap in the past few years. Pray for defeasance opportunities on the pre'08 debt, like those missed by the City in the 90s. Oil prices bailing us out? Maybe if demand rises faster than all the new supply and effect of conversion to natural gas and lack of local pipeline/refining capacity. Infrastructure requiring less R&M? Hmm, the city expanded like mad in the 70s so it's now 30-40 yrs old. Labour cost control? ??? Selling assets? Privatizing?
                              Last edited by KC; 12-06-2013, 11:26 PM.

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