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West LRT | Downtown to Lewis Estates | Conceptual Discussion About Approved Route

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  • GizmoForMayor
    replied
    I think the final decision is expected March 12

    Leave a comment:


  • Foolworm
    replied
    There has been an update on the City website: There are also 3 teams in the running, including the remaining contender from the last round.

    Let's hope 2 don't pull out again this time.

    Leave a comment:


  • noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by stilicho View Post
    why this project is so aimless, expensive, and poorly-planned.
    Because it was designed for the maximum benefit of property developers & not the efficient transportation of people. The CoE laid that out in black & white when they selected the route. Any positive social engineering/impact the LRT is to accomplish has to be filtered through the pockets of developers & land speculators first.

    Leave a comment:


  • stilicho
    replied
    Originally posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    ^ I use transit every single day

    This line has been consulted to death and every single resident of this city had plenty of opportunity to give input. What I'm hearing from you is that because some suburbanites (presumably you included) have "no plans to surrender their vehicles" the city should just give in and built more freeways because that suits your lifestyle. Well that's not going to happen...that 1960s way of thinking is luckily a thing of the past in this city. This line will get built and you might as well get used to it.
    I haven't had the time to spend replying to the forum as I have been busy lately.

    #1] I returned to Edmonton after living elsewhere for almost two decades, in June of 2018.
    #2] I returned to live in Oliver, where I had lived before. I've always lived in the downtown core or the immediate adjacent communities (mainly Rossdale and Oliver).
    #3] The city councillors (notably excepting Mike Nickel) appear to be uniformly arguing for increased LRT expansion without appearing to care how it affects vehicular traffic patterns.
    #4] I attended three separate "engagement" meetings. At one of them, I asked an individual representing the city how they planned to accommodate vehicle users in Oliver (projected to increase our population by over 15,000 in the next three decades) with about 10,000 new cars originating in this neighbourhood along with a lane reduction on SPR each way--with a tramway running down the middle of the street. The woman behind the table giggled and answered something like "oh, that is a little funny, isn't it?"
    #5] I wrote a note at one of them where people were encouraged to leave a "sticky" suggesting the city not spend one thin dime more on LRT projects until they fixed the Metro Line's signalling issue.
    #6] I am a lifelong pedestrian. One thing about not owning a vehicle is how sympathetic you become towards impatient or angry motorists. You acquire that sympathy because your life is literally in their hands--especially at intersections.

    I hope this answers your lingering concerns about my genuineness.

    Nobody is asking the city to build more freeways. Those built in my absence appear to be working as they should. People are, however, genuinely misinformed and misdirected by city councillors and city employees. They still have the "draft" of the SPR-West extension on the City website as though this is all still very much up for debate. Meanwhile they're moving infrastructure on 104 Avenue as though the plan is already set in stone. That includes the extremely unsafe and frankly ludicrous scheme to have the LRT ploughing down the middle of one of the busiest arteries in the city centre.

    We have an election next year and I'm encouraged that people I have spoken with in person are going to ask those seeking re-election why this project is so aimless, expensive, and poorly-planned.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iron
    replied
    Originally posted by sundance View Post
    The constrained nature of Stony Plain Road makes surface rapid transit impossible, doesn't have much influence with bored tunnels.
    And where is the money coming for this...?
    My obvious question? Why the hell do they not run it down 100 Ave instead It obviates the problems on SPR and the McKinnon Freeway allowance on this arterial has ample space.
    If people can't walk one (truncated) city block to get on the train? What does this say about the future of Mass Transit in the GEA?
    My company has been actively involved in new construction in this specific area over the past few years. The buyers of these new homes are wagering on the fact that the COE will indeed deliver a rapid transit system to serve the area. None of this development is on SPR. It's all a couple of blocks north or south and as such? The catchment area is already established and these people are the ones who WILL walk the extra two or three blocks to get on the train.
    There is little to be offered by messing up traffic on SPR that would not serve the area if they just ran down the 100 Ave easement instead. Perhaps I'm missing something significant here?
    Is the idea to "force" social redevelopment on SPR between 149 and 156 St.'s?
    As any long time resident knows? This is going to be an exercise in frustration. People need porn, bars, pawn shops, and weed vendors in this area.
    You can't wave a magic wand (LRT) and solve all of society's problems.

    These are endemic issues and will require years of social engineering before any appreciable effect will be realized.
    In my opinion?

    Actively integrating the "Disadvantaged masses" into the average Joe by running the LRT right though the heart of their "turf"?

    Problematical.

    Move it one block over (to 100 Ave) and this is far less of a problem.

    The average commuter is not going to be happy dealing with "susie-p1ssed-her-pants" and the meth/crack heads on a daily basis.

    The demographic of this 10 block area along SPR is going to be a "problem" for some years to come.

    Stuffing a train down this already constricted corridor, screwing up traffic (which is the only thing that is keeping this area relevant), and bringing a whole pile of "undesirables" in close contact with the average commuter is a recipe for failure.

    My two cents.

    Leave a comment:


  • sundance
    replied
    The constrained nature of Stony Plain Road makes surface rapid transit impossible, doesn't have much influence with bored tunnels.

    Leave a comment:


  • East McCauley
    replied
    Originally posted by sundance View Post
    I think the Stony Plain corridor was the right choice, however they need to invest in separating the road from rail, best option is tunnelling, yes it's more expensive but it is a long term investment in how we want our city to be in the future.
    The constrained nature of the SPR corridor makes it unsuitable for high speed rail based transit. Additional grade separations add major costs with only marginal improvement in travel times. For less money, the City could have built a completely grade separated high floor line from Lewis Estates to South Campus Station using the 87 Avenue corridor. An option that was advocated by many of us but to its eternal shame rejected by City Council.

    Leave a comment:


  • The_Cat
    replied
    To a certain extent, the Stony Plain Road business community is partly to blame, turning down the opportunity to have a one-way road going westbound from 151-156 Street/

    Leave a comment:


  • sundance
    replied
    I think the Stony Plain corridor was the right choice, however they need to invest in separating the road from rail, best option is tunnelling, yes it's more expensive but it is a long term investment in how we want our city to be in the future.

    Leave a comment:


  • East McCauley
    replied
    ^stilicho should not have made this about Eva Cheung . She was likely not even working for the City when City Council made the ill-advised decision 10 years ago to route the West LRT through the already constrained Stony Plain Road corridor. It was the wrong decision then and it is still the wrong decision today. But as project manager Eva's job is to implement a decision made by Council and the senior City staff of the day.

    But where did you get the idea that stilicho wants to build more freeways? stilicho's point that a slow street car running down a constrained corridor will not get drivers out of their cars and on to transit is backed by mountains of evidence.

    Leave a comment:


  • GizmoForMayor
    replied
    ^ I use transit every single day

    This line has been consulted to death and every single resident of this city had plenty of opportunity to give input. What I'm hearing from you is that because some suburbanites (presumably you included) have "no plans to surrender their vehicles" the city should just give in and built more freeways because that suits your lifestyle. Well that's not going to happen...that 1960s way of thinking is luckily a thing of the past in this city. This line will get built and you might as well get used to it.

    Leave a comment:


  • stilicho
    replied
    Originally posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Oft forgotten in arguments around mass transit are environmental impacts and also the future density of our city. We don't just build for today, so while the car trip out to Lewis Farms may take roughly the same time as the LRT at first, that balance will shift dramatically as development densifies over time and residential areas continue to grow outside of the henday. The development of LRT is also going to provide an environmentally friendly alternative to driving (and provide an option for those who don't own cars, a growing demographic). Busses have their purpose, but for a number of reasons they are simply not as effective as LRT (higher cost of operation, not as weather-proof, not ideal for TOD developers, etc.). Building this line is the right decision for the city and I can't wait for it to really get underway.
    I suspect you don't rely on transit.

    Buses are reliable and flexible. Try using transit some time. I can guarantee you that Eva Cheung does not use transit and never will.

    Planners argue they have consulted with residents and yet I can guarantee doubly they have never canvassed the nearly 40,000 commuters who depend on the Stony Plain Road access each day and have no plans to surrender their vehicles to Eva and her mob of well-wishers.

    This impending mistake of an LRT must immediately become an election issue for 2021. They're scurrying to ram it through in the 2020 budget but that probably won't work.

    Leave a comment:


  • Medwards
    replied
    ^and you've finally come full circle.

    Again - I like the streetcar idea - in the built up areas/central district/mature areas.. For the suburbs, you need a different type of service, a fast direct commuter service. This hybrid idea isn't fit to accomplish either purpose very well.

    There's this whole hierarchy of transit service for different purposes and needs and Edmonton seems to want to ignore it all.
    Last edited by Medwards; 21-01-2020, 02:08 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Edmonton PRT
    replied
    Makes you wish we had something like this GRT/PRT People mover for nonstop direct station to station automated transit.

    Would give the Transit Union a coronary.



    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinentaxi

    Leave a comment:


  • GizmoForMayor
    replied
    ^ I would agree with you if it was the kind of line that Medwards proposes (pretty much an express train to the burbs that hardly stops along the way). The low floor type of LRT that the CoE is building serves the people who live along the line as much as, and possibly more than, the people near Lewis Farms. If it was up to me the line would stop at WEM and we would invest the rest of the money into LRT elsewhere rather than the burbs. This will densify our city considerably, leading (ideally) to a reduced need for city tax payers to continuously build new infrastructure out in the far flung corners of the city. We will only end up with a more built up city near the core if we have the transportation systems to go along with it.

    Leave a comment:

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