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West LRT | Downtown to Lewis Estates | Conceptual Discussion About Approved Route

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  • Edmonton PRT
    replied
    If people want to have a huge house on a huge lot, and a big driveway and garage for their 4 Euro sedans and luxury SUV's, in a low density golf course community like Lewis Estates built outside the AHD and more than 14km from downtown; do not deserve to also get a multi-billion dollar taxpayer funded streetcar to their area.

    I supported the NE line because the original only cost $65 million and included 2 massive underground stations, service to the stadium and arena.

    Even 45 years later, the development along that route is marginal and the TOD on Fort Road (Staition Pointe) is a complete disaster. Moreover Fort Road has been widened to handle all the commuter traffic while LRT ridership on that route are flat. This proves that unfortunately, a lack of modal shift and the promise of public transit using LRT that has first mile and last mile barriers.

    Spending approximately $150 million per kilometer for a sloth slow streetcar to a golf course community is just a farce driven by COE bureaucrats that live in Sherwood Park and St. Albert to benefit huge construction contractors and LRT equipment manufacturers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Medwards
    replied
    Yes, look at all that development around the NE LRT line...
    This line will not attract new ridership
    Will not help with a modal shift
    Will keep car drivers, driving.
    LRT is locked into a fixed route, buses provide flexiblity.
    Strong doubt LRT is 'cheaper' - buses don't require billions of dollars of investment and very little in ongoing maintenance and the operators make the same coin.

    I don't have a problem with LRT, but I don't think a streetcar should reach out to lewis estates, which is what is being built. A streetcar, hybrid at best.

    Leave a comment:


  • GizmoForMayor
    replied
    Oft forgotten in arguments around mass transit are environmental impacts and also the future density of our city. We don't just build for today, so while the car trip out to Lewis Farms may take roughly the same time as the LRT at first, that balance will shift dramatically as development densifies over time and residential areas continue to grow outside of the henday. The development of LRT is also going to provide an environmentally friendly alternative to driving (and provide an option for those who don't own cars, a growing demographic). Busses have their purpose, but for a number of reasons they are simply not as effective as LRT (higher cost of operation, not as weather-proof, not ideal for TOD developers, etc.). Building this line is the right decision for the city and I can't wait for it to really get underway.

    Leave a comment:


  • Edmonton PRT
    replied
    You are 100 percent right Medwards. It is just spending billions in churning ridership and offers no benefits for travel mode changes.

    This is more a benefit for construction contractors, the streetcar manufacturer and the transit union which wields control of public transit.

    Read as: Not user friendly and corporate welfare.

    Leave a comment:


  • Medwards
    replied
    So we are spending 4.2 billion dollars on a system that:

    -wont be faster than the existing express buses that already serve us using exisiting infrastructure
    -wont be anymore reliable that cars on a road
    -has major conflict points which affect its reliability
    -wont attract new ridership


    bravo

    Leave a comment:


  • Medwards
    replied
    Originally posted by rupikhalon001 View Post

    Over the years with the South LRT, how many accidents have happened at intersections ? In fact, how many times has the South LRT been delayed because of an auto accident ?
    Theres been a few times, however the south lrt is setup in a much different fashion than this new lrt.

    Leave a comment:


  • Medwards
    replied
    Originally posted by Glenco View Post

    Sh*t happens. Crash in west Edmonton creates traffic delays on Whitemud

    Other drivers caught behind the crash reported waiting over an hour — in some cases, 90 minutes — in traffic.
    https://globalnews.ca/news/6437894/c...lays-whitemud/
    Shizt happens. Lets mitigate our transit to avoid as much shizt as possible.

    I bet you never ride transit

    Leave a comment:


  • noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by rupikhalon001 View Post

    ^ I'm sure it wont be that bad
    No, the whole lack of separation from traffic is a feature of the Valley Line. Making it more like a bus is by intent, despite the obvious drawbacks.

    Leave a comment:


  • rupikhalon001
    replied
    Originally posted by noodle View Post

    South LRT is far, far more separated from the roadway than anything that's not elevated on the tram line. It's entirely in its own ROW, with signal priority, dedicated signals & gates. None of which are a thing for the tram line.
    ^ I'm sure it wont be that bad

    Leave a comment:


  • noodle
    replied
    Originally posted by rupikhalon001 View Post

    Over the years with the South LRT, how many accidents have happened at intersections ? In fact, how many times has the South LRT been delayed because of an auto accident ?
    South LRT is far, far more separated from the roadway than anything that's not elevated on the tram line. It's entirely in its own ROW, with signal priority, dedicated signals & gates. None of which are a thing for the tram line.

    Leave a comment:


  • Glenco
    replied
    Originally posted by Medwards View Post
    It would be cheaper to buy everyone a car. Do the math. 2.2 B for the Mill woods line and another ~2 B for the west end part. 4.2 Billion dollars - without accounting for ongoing maintenance/operations.

    That's 210,000 vehicles at 20,000$

    If we are spending billions to encourage people to take a train because they might not take a bus.... seems kinda ridiculous that we are building a train that won't be any faster than a bus... It's not going to provide that carrot.
    You should be driving down the road with a big smile on your face, because you certainly got your money’s worth from that Camry. Consumer Reports (www.consumerreports.org/) says the average life expectancy of a new vehicle these days is around 8 years or 150,000 miles. Of course, some well-built vehicles can go 15 years and 300,000, if properly maintained.
    The LRT is supposed to last a minimum 30 years so it is hard to make a cost comparison.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/12040753/n.../#.XiYU5S8TGhA

    Leave a comment:


  • rupikhalon001
    replied
    Originally posted by Medwards View Post
    Rail will be embedded in the road surface, and although it has it's own separate lane, it will still be subject to accidents that happen at intersections. If an accident happens in an intersection the LRT goes through... what do you think will happen? Train just going to plow through disabled vehicles waiting for a tow truck?
    Over the years with the South LRT, how many accidents have happened at intersections ? In fact, how many times has the South LRT been delayed because of an auto accident ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Glenco
    replied
    Originally posted by noodle View Post
    How is a vehicle that's unable to change routes & running with as little grade separation as possible less impacted by accidents? It's functionally a big bus that can't turn off of congested roads.
    Sh*t happens. Crash in west Edmonton creates traffic delays on Whitemud

    Other drivers caught behind the crash reported waiting over an hour — in some cases, 90 minutes — in traffic.
    https://globalnews.ca/news/6437894/c...lays-whitemud/

    Leave a comment:


  • Medwards
    replied
    Rail will be embedded in the road surface, and although it has it's own separate lane, it will still be subject to accidents that happen at intersections. If an accident happens in an intersection the LRT goes through... what do you think will happen? Train just going to plow through disabled vehicles waiting for a tow truck?

    Leave a comment:


  • rupikhalon001
    replied
    Cars will be on the street, train will be on rails. Unless the cars are driving down on the rails, how can a backed up lane stop the train ?

    Leave a comment:

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