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West LRT | Downtown to Lewis Estates | Conceptual Discussion About Approved Route

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  • "Delayed" until just before the next election. Total coincidence I'm sure.

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    • 2019 2020 2021 2022 total

      Calgary and Edmonton LRT 150,791 192,354 484,572 568,686 1,396,403


      Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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      • kkozoriz & Ian: Thanks: By that time, the money raised for the WLRT project so far might generate enough interest/revenue to get the project going again
        Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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        • Originally posted by kkozoriz View Post
          "Delayed" until just before the next election. Total coincidence I'm sure.
          Not delayed but provincial funding is now kicking in later than anticipated. The CoE has yet to determine how they will approach this however I'm fairly certain that construction will start largely on time (Spring 2021) with the city on the hook for the extra interest payments that will now need to be paid with the provincial funding coming later.
          "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

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          • The UCP government has delayed it once. They can do it again next year when the next cut in business taxes blows another hole in the budget. Already the budget deficit is $2 billion higher than the NDP would have run. Now double the cut in business tax from what it was this year as the rate drops from 11% to 10%. Add to that that the UCP based their budget on oil going up when, in fact, it's been stagnent or dropping in price.

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            • ^ Before construction happens procurement and the bidding for operations (P3?) of the WLRT needs to happen to give the City a clear path forward. Lots of time to get both done and or underway.
              Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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              • Originally posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
                Originally posted by kkozoriz View Post
                "Delayed" until just before the next election. Total coincidence I'm sure.
                Not delayed but provincial funding is now kicking in later than anticipated. The CoE has yet to determine how they will approach this however I'm fairly certain that construction will start largely on time (Spring 2021) with the city on the hook for the extra interest payments that will now need to be paid with the provincial funding coming later.
                It may well play out that way but it's not without risk. The most substantial risk is that the UCP has not actually promised exactly when the funding will be coming: all they've said is sometime after after 2022-23. (source). Many people seem to be interpreting this as funding starting in 2023 but it could be years later. Even if the funding does ever start to flow, there’s also the infamous guillotine clause that allows the funding to the withdrawn unilaterally with only 90 days notice.

                Even if the city does go it alone, there’s also genuine risk involved. Council has already committed to borrowing $621M under the belief that provincial funds will be coming in the form of $1000M of carbon tax revenue. Were the city to commit to borrowing that additional billion for a total of $1600M (with no guarantee when the province will come to the table) they will start to push close to their statutory debt limit under the Municipal Government Act and perilously close to their self-imposed debt limit.

                In fact, looking at the 2019-2022 capital budget, they might not even have room in their debt limit to make up the shortfall. As per the figure below, that budget included a potential range of debt required for LRT expansion of what looks to be about $800M (eyeballed) by 2023 at which time the debt limit is reached. Looking at this figure it's hard to understand how to squeeze in an additional $800M of debt to reach the $1600M required.

                Source: https://www.edmonton.ca/city_governm..._2019_2022.pdf

                This could lead to other potential risks include bond agencies downgrading the city’s credit rating (Standard and Poor’s already changed the City of Edmonton’s outlook from Stable to Negative in 2017) which would increase the cost of borrowing. There are also risks of procurement challenges too if bidders start to worry about the project not being fully financed.

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                • ^ thanks for that OffWhyte. You are right, it certainly makes things more complicated and expensive for the city. If I was Iveson I would simply propose to add 1% to everyone's property tax to cover the costs and squarely place the blame for that on Kenney, which is where the blame belongs of course.
                  "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

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                  • The cities debt limit is currently $5.587 billion and the current debt used is $3.046 billion or 54.5% (page 32).

                    With the dissolving of Alberta Capital Finance Authority the way municipalities borrow money will continue by borrowing through the provincial government.
                    Last edited by SP59; 21-11-2019, 04:54 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by SP59 View Post
                      The cities debt limit is currently $5.587 billion and the current debt used is $3.046 billion or 54.5% (page 32).

                      With the dissolving of Alberta Capital Finance Authority the way municipalities borrow money will continue by borrowing through the provincial government.
                      Yes, thanks. I didn't explain myself very well because the figure I posted was for debt servicing (for which there's also a limit) but my analysis was describing total debt. Either way--total debt or debt servicing--you get close to the limits by 2023. Here's the 2019-2022 capital budget total debt estimations and you can see how close the total debt limit is approached by about 2023. It's not as bad as the debt servicing limit figure but it's not great either.

                      Source: https://www.edmonton.ca/city_governm...al-budget.aspx

                      So it's possible for Council to do this--indeed they probable will do this--but it's not without risk.

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                      • Originally posted by IanO View Post
                        City launches new Valley Line West LRT procurement



                        November 12, 2019

                        The City of Edmonton is launching a new procurement process for the Valley Line West LRT project.

                        The 14-kilometre extension from Downtown to Lewis Farms will be delivered using a design-build-finance (DBF) model. This type of contract requires the successful bidder to undertake the design and construction of the Valley Line West project and provide partial private financing. Once fully complete, the full 27-kilometre Valley Line will provide a reliable continuous light rail transit service connecting major destinations between southeast, downtown and west Edmonton.

                        The City chose the new procurement strategy after engaging with construction industry stakeholders to better understand changes in the market’s capacity to build the Valley Line West LRT. The City will procure light rail vehicles separately and is currently exploring options related to that approach.

                        “Our goal has always been to deliver the Valley Line West LRT project in a manner that provides Edmontonians with the best value for their money and we’re confident our new procurement strategy will achieve that,” said Bruce Ferguson, Branch Manager for LRT Expansion and Renewal.

                        Through competitive procurement, the City ensures fair and rigorous competition among experienced participants in the design and construction industry. The City expects to launch the new procurement process with a Request for Qualifications (RFQ) early in the new year. The successful proponent will be selected by the end of 2020 and the project is expected to be completed by 2027.

                        The new procurement strategy comes after two of the three shortlisted teams withdrew from the previous procurement process in July. The City temporarily paused procurement to fully understand the changing market conditions and evaluate its options before relaunching with a new approach.

                        The Valley Line West procurement strategy report will be presented to Executive Committee for information on November 18.


                        For more information:
                        edmonton.ca/valleylinewest

                        Media contact:
                        Mariam Ibrahim
                        Communications Advisor
                        Communications and Engagement
                        780-496-5088
                        You might be the one to engage on this but it appears all the designs have the LRT (actually not an LRT but a slow streetcar) running right down the middle of 104 Avenue and no left turns allowed for motorists. I have seen the literature indicating this.

                        I am also underwhelmed by the "vision" of plunking 17 to 35 storey buildings all the way up and down with "boutiques" in the podiums. Along with the demolition of all the elements of Oliver Square because they don't want to see parking lots from 104 Avenue. You're probably amply aware of the studies re-imagining all this but it really seems that the planners don't live in Oliver, have no stake in Oliver, and don't understand why people live in Oliver.

                        I want an LRT (a real one and not a streetcar) as any time I go out to visit relatives around Lewis Estates now I can get there quicker by bus than the proposed streetcar would get me there.

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                        • This could easily be done with a BRT line and save the tax payers Billions.
                          To be sure? It has an impact on our supposed aspiration to be a "world class" city.
                          Point taken. Is it really worth another tax hike so that a couple of thousand people can get from suburbia to the CBA during rush hour?
                          This is the point that is never properly assessed.
                          The other point is how this will screw vehicle traffic in the west end.
                          Build dedicated lanes on Whitemud to serve BRT to the extant LRT system.
                          It will not cost 2,3 Billion to add two more lanes to the Quesnell bridge and widen the Whitemud....this is all flat work.
                          The insanity has to end.
                          Yes Iveson, I'm looking at you.

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                          • West LRT Expansion lives on: https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...proved-funding
                            "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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                            • Great news, but not at all surprising. Now let's get this thing going already!
                              "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

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                              • Thank god **** that Cartmell ***** and the others who said no to this project i bet you anything none of this project even goes thru their ridings

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