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  • the problem with 91st is that its only got residential on one side really, not very high dense residential either. 66st would be perfect to hit 2 highschools a hospital and the TC.
    be offended! figure out why later...

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    • Originally posted by richardW View Post
      the problem with 91st is that its only got residential on one side really, not very high dense residential either. 66st would be perfect to hit 2 highschools a hospital and the TC.
      There's nothing wrong with serving non- residential areas with LRT. As it stands, the commercial areas in the area are some of the densest in edmonton. It really doesn't matter where the line is as long as the stations are at the major avenues so that bus transfers are easy. From what I understand, a 91st route would cut to the heart of Millwoods along 28ave anyway.

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      • Originally posted by moahunter View Post
        Originally posted by danimalrex View Post
        I've always thought 91st was perfectly laid out for future LRT, but with the current south extension going down to Century, there would only be 20 blocks of separation between the two lines.
        Some routes are just too well suited to LRT to not get it at some point. 87 Avenue on the West End is the same, it is a no-brainer, almost designed for LRT. I don't think the 20 blocks of spearation would be a problem at all - it is probably about right, I find I can walk about 10 blocks, but I'm an exception, many won't walk even this far.
        I agree. There would be little conflict between the two lines, and I wouldn't doubt that a 91St line would be significantly less expensive than a line further east, if done right.

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        • Originally posted by highlander View Post
          Originally posted by moahunter View Post
          Originally posted by danimalrex View Post
          I've always thought 91st was perfectly laid out for future LRT, but with the current south extension going down to Century, there would only be 20 blocks of separation between the two lines.
          Some routes are just too well suited to LRT to not get it at some point. 87 Avenue on the West End is the same, it is a no-brainer, almost designed for LRT. I don't think the 20 blocks of spearation would be a problem at all - it is probably about right, I find I can walk about 10 blocks, but I'm an exception, many won't walk even this far.
          I agree. There would be little conflict between the two lines, and I wouldn't doubt that a 91St line would be significantly less expensive than a line further east, if done right.
          I think walking depends on the season. I walk alot in the summer getting of the bus well ahead of my stop. I can walk 10 + blocks. Would never consider that in -30+ weather though. That is pretty inhuman weather....

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          • Originally posted by Solaris View Post
            Originally posted by highlander View Post
            Originally posted by moahunter View Post
            Originally posted by danimalrex View Post
            I've always thought 91st was perfectly laid out for future LRT, but with the current south extension going down to Century, there would only be 20 blocks of separation between the two lines.
            Some routes are just too well suited to LRT to not get it at some point. 87 Avenue on the West End is the same, it is a no-brainer, almost designed for LRT. I don't think the 20 blocks of spearation would be a problem at all - it is probably about right, I find I can walk about 10 blocks, but I'm an exception, many won't walk even this far.
            I agree. There would be little conflict between the two lines, and I wouldn't doubt that a 91St line would be significantly less expensive than a line further east, if done right.


            I think walking depends on the season. I walk alot in the summer getting of the bus well ahead of my stop. I can walk 10 + blocks. Would never consider that in -30+ weather though. That is pretty inhuman weather....
            While the lines might be only 20 blocks apart, the stations would surely be more distant. the only places where stations could line up is 51ave with southgate, and at whyte ave where density merits it. Otherwise, the southenmost station actually on 91st would likely be at 34 ave, which was skipped by SLRT for some reason, another might be at argyle.

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            • I hadn't thought about swinging east from 91st into Millwoods along 28th Ave. It's definately wide enough to accomidate 4 lanes of traffic plus an LRT line, and would pass directly in front of the Millwoods Rec Center. That routing has pretty good potential too.

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              • ^ with a route like that would there be a stop at Millwoods TC and the reccentre/highshools or would that be too close together
                be offended! figure out why later...

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                • mwtc>wem

                  mwtc>28th ave (rec centers and gmcc) > north to bonniedoon > 82nd ave > old cpr tracks north to High level bridge> over the top> stop above ground on top on grandin LRT >under ground west along jasper stop at 112 and 124 > under 102ave come above ground at 142 st station> south 142st > 87th ave stop at meadowlark TC > wem> lewis estates (c/w park and ride).

                  ok this kind of route just occured to me. there may need to be rough adjustments. Think it might work though???????

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                  • Nope - people in Millwoods most need to get downtown (NAIT may be an important connection for Millwoods too), not to the Legilsature and WEM. Not to mention is that the high level is out of bounds per past experience (and even now - reserved for HST).
                    Last edited by moahunter; 24-12-2008, 04:33 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by moahunter View Post
                      Nope - people in Millwoods most need to get downtown (NAIT may be an important connection for Millwoods too), not to the Legilsature and WEM. Not to mention is that the high level is out of bounds per past experience (and even now - reserved for HST).
                      they would just need to transfer @ grandin then go where ever. I am sure the high level can be retro fitted to adapt to lrt traffic. lets face it $2b is just never going to happen, we have to adjust expectations it is not reasonable to assume that every line will terminate at churchill. They dont even do this in Toronto (if you come in on the bloor line, you need to transfer to the young line to go further into downtown). further they also run some spur lines like in the case of the scarborough lrt.

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                      • Originally posted by Solaris View Post
                        they would just need to transfer @ grandin then go where ever. I am sure the high level can be retro fitted to adapt to lrt traffic. lets face it $2b is just never going to happen,
                        Let's face it, the high level was suitable for LRT and it didn't happen. It couldn't happen then, and it won't happen now, it is set aside for HSR. As to $2 billion, the more track, and the more corners, and the busier road (e.g. around Whyte), then the more expensive it is going to be. I don't think the "bridge" is the big cost with Millwoods LRT. And no, it doesn't have to link at churchill (although that would be ideal - it could join the existing tunnel just south of it) - it could potentially not link at all and go a little north, or start a new station in the Quarters.

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                        • There's no good reason that the high level can't be used for LRT. The current owners are different and would have nothing to gain but much to lose by refusing the city access for LRT. If the city decides that a high level is desirable (it is) and really want it, the top of that bridge is a really low-cost bone to for the province to toss, especially if they can take it back or share the track (they could) when (if) they decide to actually build HSR.

                          On the other hand, any high level route will have to be more direct to millwoods than solaris' proposal if it is to get anysort of ridership. Cutting bonneydoon out of the route and going simply 28-C.P.ROW-Grandin would be much more acceptable to millwoodians.

                          We really do need to look at travel time for any millwoods LRT we propose, because I suspect that the current high transit use stats for millwoods are reflective no of some strangely higher desire of millwooders to use transit, or some demographic characteristic of the area but simply reflects that millwoods already has decent bus service to downtown. In this case especially, if we cant do as well as the currently popular bus, maybe we should just add a little more bus priority and be done with it.

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                          • SE is not just to serve Millwoods. There are alot of neighborhoods and jobs in between.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DanC View Post
                              SE is not just to serve Millwoods. There are alot of neighborhoods and jobs in between.
                              I thought the thread title was LRT to Millwoods?

                              Whatever, The point is that a roundabout route to millwoods has no point.

                              What we have is two totally sepatrate issues:

                              1) Rapid transit to Millwoods, and
                              2) Better transit for the inner South side.

                              We can build a $2B rapid LRT line from downtown to Millwoods to downtown via BonneyDoon.

                              Or we can build a Much less expensive LRT line from grandin to Millwoods via the high level and the CP rows. It's just as good for millwoods>university or Millwoods>govt district, but slightly worse for Millwoods>Financial Core, and no use at all for folks from east of mill creek, but it connects whyte ave right at the busy part, and we still have $1B+ left over to improve transit for the near SE, possibly including multiple streetcar/tram light rail lines, BRT, Trolley bus or whatever else tickles your fancy.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by highlander View Post
                                Originally posted by DanC View Post
                                SE is not just to serve Millwoods. There are alot of neighborhoods and jobs in between.
                                I thought the thread title was LRT to Millwoods?

                                Whatever, The point is that a roundabout route to millwoods has no point.

                                What we have is two totally sepatrate issues:

                                1) Rapid transit to Millwoods, and
                                2) Better transit for the inner South side.

                                We can build a $2B rapid LRT line from downtown to Millwoods to downtown via BonneyDoon.

                                Or we can build a Much less expensive LRT line from grandin to Millwoods via the high level and the CP rows. It's just as good for millwoods>university or Millwoods>govt district, but slightly worse for Millwoods>Financial Core, and no use at all for folks from east of mill creek, but it connects whyte ave right at the busy part, and we still have $1B+ left over to improve transit for the near SE, possibly including multiple streetcar/tram light rail lines, BRT, Trolley bus or whatever else tickles your fancy.
                                Are you just guessing that its going to be 1B+ dollars cheaper? I don't know where that number came from or how you got to it.
                                You seem to be glossing over that a large portion of the ROWs are still in use by heavy freight and would have to be purchased by the City...this isn't free land.
                                With the High Level being designated as part of the HSR route it may also be impossible to use the bridge. If HSR ever happens and the High Level is now an lrt route, we are going to get one stop on the southside and no direct route Downtown. That would work pretty nicely for turning Edmonton into a shuttling point to the Calgary Airport.
                                You are making a ton of assumptions and I'm sure I could be a lot more creative and come up with lots of interesting counterpoints to your route. Just because you got all excited about it doesn't mean that anything you said will hold water. Facts not conjecture would be a starting point.

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