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  • #46
    Originally posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Originally posted by Dave View Post
    Any one who precipitates an election in the next 5 months will probably be severely punished by the voters and I think they know that, so the Conservatives are safe if they want to take that time available and handle it properly. On the other hand, I think its quite possible they will puck it up by trying to push him out a few months early. I think losing the election has effected the competence and judgement of the party as a whole. and not just Scheer was responsible for the election debacle. However, the rest of the party is responsible for how they handle things going forward. I don't mind that the Conservatives have developed a taste for blood and heck I even understand some of the anger, but the time difference of a few months is not worth it to destroy things further.
    So if they manage to pick a leader 2 weeks before a writ drops, their campaign will go swimmingly? The point is that it takes a year or two for a new leader to consolidate support, fundraise/pay off debts, and to create an election platform and strategy. Let alone the 2-3 months that a leadership race itself would take. The Conservatives don't have the luxury of time if they want to be competitive in the next election. Scheer will be gone by Christmas so that they can pick a leader in April.
    There isn't going to be an election by Christmas or by April and probably not even in 2020, so its really a total waste of time and energy. If they want to work themselves into a frenzy over this. its up to them - whatever. It will just show Canadians, its not just Scheer's judgement that is a little off.

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    • #47
      It's like you completely ignored the fact that it takes a year or more for a new leader to get organized and ready for a campaign. Even if the next election is 2 years out, the Conservatives would only be hurting themselves throwing a third or more of that window out with Scheer in place and continuing to founder. They need to choose a new leader as soon as possible so that they can hit the ground running and up to speed by the late summer or fall of 2021. If they wait until April to give him the boot, that means a new leader won't be picked until mid-summer, leaving them barely a year to prepare for an election in late 2021. And don't put it past the Liberals to see that vulnerability and go to the polls early.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
        It's like you completely ignored the fact that it takes a year or more for a new leader to get organized and ready for a campaign. Even if the next election is 2 years out, the Conservatives would only be hurting themselves throwing a third or more of that window out with Scheer in place and continuing to founder. They need to choose a new leader as soon as possible so that they can hit the ground running and up to speed by the late summer or fall of 2021. If they wait until April to give him the boot, that means a new leader won't be picked until mid-summer, leaving them barely a year to prepare for an election in late 2021. And don't put it past the Liberals to see that vulnerability and go to the polls early.
        Some of the organization is up to the party, some of it is up to the leader. I don't think there is any hard and fast rule about how long it takes to organize for an election, you figure out the priorities and focus on them first. A good leader might be able to be organized in six months and I think even Doug Ford actually did it in less than that, a bad leader might take two years and still not have it all together. I don't think the CPC's problems are so much with organization or resources, they need a bit more introspection and that is something best not rushed or avoided.

        Comment


        • #49
          Scheer will do OK. Just like his work experience as an insurance broker, he'll just add "Former Prime Minister" to his resume.

          Comment


          • #50
            Now we see why he picked her as his deputy. Or is she preparing us for Scheer to announce that the Irish should not be able to get married?

            Conservative deputy leader apologizes for comparing Pride parades to St. Patrick's Day events after criticism

            Newly appointed deputy Conservative party leader Leona Alleslev is taking heat and has apologized for equating marching in Pride parades with St. Patrick's Day parades.


            In an interview with CBC Radio's The House, Alleslev was asked about Conservative Leader Andrew's Scheer's struggle to quell questions about his personal beliefs on same-sex marriage during the election campaign.


            The Liberals had resurfaced a video from 2005, when Scheer spoke in the House of Commons against it. Scheer is also the only federal party leader who has not marched in a Pride parade.


            "I think that that's obviously his choice and we live in a country where that's his choice," Alleslev told host Chris Hall. "Have we asked anybody if they marched in a St. Patrick's Day parade?"

            ---

            Conservative insiders expressed their distaste for the comment.


            Jamie Ellerton, who ran Scheer's road campaign, and Melissa Lantsman, who helped the party during the election, recently wrote a scathing opinion article in the Globe and Mail, warning the Conservatives would be eternally relegated to second place if they couldn't move past their current stance on social issues.


            The two retweeted Alleslev's comments. Lantsman wrote "Hope it's all worth it, Leona Alleslev," while Ellerton posted a dozen examples of Scheer attending festivals with various ethnic and religious groups.
            Rachel Curran, who served as former prime minister Stephen Harper's director of policy, said it was "one of the ugliest and most offensive things I've heard in a long time."


            It wasn't just Conservatives weighing in. Liberals and New Democrats poked fun at Alleslev.


            "Even if you choose to ignore the baffling analogical reasoning, Trudeau has actually marched in St. Patrick's Day parades..." read a tweet from Liberal MP Nathaniel Erskine-Smith.


            NDP MP Charlie Angus added some historical context, saying "150 years ago, it would be fitting to ask a Conservative leader why he refused to march in a St. Patrick's Day parade."


            Writer Jesse Hawken added to that point "This comparison would work if there was still widespread and institutional discrimination against the Irish in Canada."

            https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/con...cism-1.5379773


            Comment


            • #51
              ^ If Sheer resigns or get booted out as Conservative leader (actually, a matter of WHEN), does Leona Alleslev become the official opposition leader?

              Or does caucus have to vote for a new interim leader when Sheer gets axed?

              Comment


              • #52
                I've got news for you, the leader REPRESENTS the party. The leader is NOT the party (unless you're some place like North Korea or the Republican party down south)

                Deputy Tory leader questions whether anti-Scheer voices care about the party

                As more criticism of Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer emerges and doubts grow about his likelihood to remain at the party’s helm until the April leadership review, the new deputy Tory leader Leona Alleslev is questioning whether the contrarians who have spoken out care about the future of the conservative movement.


                “I think that there are certain obviously disgruntled people and I'm very disappointed in them, because if they really cared about the country and they really cared about the conservative movement, they would wait for the external review that we are investing in, to find out exactly where we can do better and what we did wrong,” Alleslev said in an interview on CTV’s Question Period with Evan Solomon.

                https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/depu...arty-1.4709058
                Last edited by kkozoriz; 30-11-2019, 03:57 PM.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by kkozoriz View Post
                  Scheer will do OK. Just like his work experience as an insurance broker, he'll just add "Former Prime Minister" to his resume.
                  No, he flunked the "exam!"

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by kkozoriz View Post
                    I've got news for you, the leader REPRESENTS the party. The leader is NOT the party (unless you're some place like North Korea or the Republican party down south)

                    Deputy Tory leader questions whether anti-Scheer voices care about the party

                    As more criticism of Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer emerges and doubts grow about his likelihood to remain at the party’s helm until the April leadership review, the new deputy Tory leader Leona Alleslev is questioning whether the contrarians who have spoken out care about the future of the conservative movement.


                    “I think that there are certain obviously disgruntled people and I'm very disappointed in them, because if they really cared about the country and they really cared about the conservative movement, they would wait for the external review that we are investing in, to find out exactly where we can do better and what we did wrong,” Alleslev said in an interview on CTV’s Question Period with Evan Solomon.

                    https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/depu...arty-1.4709058
                    I think part of the problem is Scheer actually represents the party too well. Definitely socially conservative, but not completely dogmatic about it, too ambiguous about a lot of things including what/how they would cut and how their social conservatism would impact public policy. Perhaps to road to success involves getting a leader that is less tentative and more confident in his or her positions, but I think it also involves getting a leader who will drag the party kicking and screaming somewhat into the current century. However, I am not sure sure the membership really wants that, I think they are mostly comfortable in their 1950's view of the world - the country is not.

                    Maybe there is someone out there as a potential leader who can reconcile somewhat more progressive social views while retaining the potentially less divisive fiscal aspects of conservatism, but I am not very sure about that working either. The PC's tried that here in Alberta and it sort of worked for a while until it completely blew up their party - social conservatives did not take being sidelined well and they are still a large and powerful force in most Conservative parties. By all means, if the Conservatives can't wait to get rid of Scheer, I suppose the caucus can probably force him out before the Christmas holidays are over, it's not very grassroots/membership friendly thing, but all that talk is largely a facade anyways. CPC members have about as much input into running their party as Liberal members do, probably less when Conservatives are in government. Lastly, the bigger problem here is there is no obvious talented person waiting to replace him and it might take a little while for the party to find them, if they even exist, so what is the rush to replace him, if there is no obvious person take over. Conservatives might do well to learn a bit from some recent Liberal history - they replaced the wishy washy Paul Martin with Stephan Dion and then Dion, who turned out to be hapless with Ignatieff who then suffered an even greater electoral defeat. I don't think this helped them. I have a fairly good idea what the CPC did, but don't say you weren't warned.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Scheer doesn't represent the party. Not in my eyes he doesn't, and I have never seen him as PM.
                      I think he's a kind man, not cutthroat enough perhaps, but the leader of Canada, no. However, I dont think JT is either. I think we have a bunch of losers to choose from. Not one person jumps out at me. If Peter McKay ran, or Lisa Raitt, I'd be very happy.
                      Animals are my passion.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Dave View Post
                        Originally posted by kkozoriz View Post
                        I've got news for you, the leader REPRESENTS the party. The leader is NOT the party (unless you're some place like North Korea or the Republican party down south)

                        Deputy Tory leader questions whether anti-Scheer voices care about the party

                        As more criticism of Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer emerges and doubts grow about his likelihood to remain at the party’s helm until the April leadership review, the new deputy Tory leader Leona Alleslev is questioning whether the contrarians who have spoken out care about the future of the conservative movement.


                        “I think that there are certain obviously disgruntled people and I'm very disappointed in them, because if they really cared about the country and they really cared about the conservative movement, they would wait for the external review that we are investing in, to find out exactly where we can do better and what we did wrong,” Alleslev said in an interview on CTV’s Question Period with Evan Solomon.

                        https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/depu...arty-1.4709058
                        I think part of the problem is Scheer actually represents the party too well. Definitely socially conservative, but not completely dogmatic about it, too ambiguous about a lot of things including what/how they would cut and how their social conservatism would impact public policy. Perhaps to road to success involves getting a leader that is less tentative and more confident in his or her positions, but I think it also involves getting a leader who will drag the party kicking and screaming somewhat into the current century. However, I am not sure sure the membership really wants that, I think they are mostly comfortable in their 1950's view of the world - the country is not.

                        Maybe there is someone out there as a potential leader who can reconcile somewhat more progressive social views while retaining the potentially less divisive fiscal aspects of conservatism, but I am not very sure about that working either. The PC's tried that here in Alberta and it sort of worked for a while until it completely blew up their party - social conservatives did not take being sidelined well and they are still a large and powerful force in most Conservative parties. By all means, if the Conservatives can't wait to get rid of Scheer, I suppose the caucus can probably force him out before the Christmas holidays are over, it's not very grassroots/membership friendly thing, but all that talk is largely a facade anyways. CPC members have about as much input into running their party as Liberal members do, probably less when Conservatives are in government. Lastly, the bigger problem here is there is no obvious talented person waiting to replace him and it might take a little while for the party to find them, if they even exist, so what is the rush to replace him, if there is no obvious person take over. Conservatives might do well to learn a bit from some recent Liberal history - they replaced the wishy washy Paul Martin with Stephan Dion and then Dion, who turned out to be hapless with Ignatieff who then suffered an even greater electoral defeat. I don't think this helped them. I have a fairly good idea what the CPC did, but don't say you weren't warned.
                        A lot of the Conservatives problems are self inflicted. When the Reformers split off, it gave an independent voice to the social conservative wing that the Federal Progressive Conservatives had manged to keep relatively under control. Stephen Harper, Stockwell Day and the rest then arraigned a merger between the two parties that was much like a shotgun wedding between two cousins. However, the Reform voice became dominant.

                        Harper never believed in the concept of a "progressive" conservative, as he told a crowd in Washington in 1997:

                        In fact, before the Reform Party really became a force in the late ’80s, early ’90s, the leadership of the Conservative party was running the largest deficits in Canadian history. They were in favour of gay rights officially, officially for abortion on demand. Officially -- what else can I say about them? Officially for the entrenchment of our universal, collectivized, health-care system and multicultural policies in the constitution of the country.

                        At the leadership level anyway, this was a pretty liberal group. This explains one of the reasons why the Reform party has become such a power.
                        So, right there Harper shows that the Reform Part came to power to oppose the concepts of gay rights, Pro-choice in regards to abortion, our socialized form of medicine as well as multiculturalism.

                        So we have a party made up of two diametrically opposed wings that are now fighting for control. Scheer is very much on the Harper side of the equation and it appears that the progressives of the Conservative party are starting to make their voices heard.

                        The problem that they're facing now is how do they move forward without causing a schism between the two wings? Last time they tried that, they ended up with the Reform party federally and the Wild Rose, somewhat later in Alberta.

                        How can they go back to the concept of a Progressive Conservative party that can appeal to a broad swath of Canadians without alienating a large number of their own members? Is a new, further right political party on the horizon if the progressives come out ahead? Will the progressives try to form a new party in the center, a position that is largely dominated by the Liberals? Or will the progressives just swap their blue for red and try to move the Liberals to the right from within?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          More bad news for Scheer.


                          ​​​​​​Andrew Scheer's personal numbers suggest he was part of the problem in October
                          Over the last four election campaigns, Scheer is the only major party leader whose approval rating dropped

                          ​​​​​​Between the beginning and the end of the recent campaign, Scheer's net approval rating (approval minus disapproval) decreased by an average of 10 points, according to polls conducted by Forum Research and Campaign Research. That's the biggest decrease in a major party leader's net rating in any of the last four federal election campaigns.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by kkozoriz View Post
                            More bad news for Scheer.


                            ​​​​​​Andrew Scheer's personal numbers suggest he was part of the problem in October
                            Over the last four election campaigns, Scheer is the only major party leader whose approval rating dropped

                            ​​​​​​Between the beginning and the end of the recent campaign, Scheer's net approval rating (approval minus disapproval) decreased by an average of 10 points, according to polls conducted by Forum Research and Campaign Research. That's the biggest decrease in a major party leader's net rating in any of the last four federal election campaigns.

                            Ouch !! That is bad

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Scheer announces he's stepping down

                              ​​​​​​
                              Andrew Scheer stepping down as Conservative Party leader

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Well, well, well, isn't this an interesting turn.

                                Andrew Scheer resigns as Conservative leader after new allegation surfaces

                                ​​​​​​Mercedes Stephenson, a reporter for Global News, said that senior Conservatives are alleging that Scheer had been using Conservative party funds to pay for his children’s private school education. “#CPCsources tell Global News that members of the Conservative Fund are outraged and demanded Scheer’s resignation when they found out party money was being spent on private schooling. Sources say the expenditures were made without the knowledge or approval of the Fund,” she tweeted.

                                https://nationalpost.com/news/andrew...rvative-leader

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