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In Wilson-Raybould's own words.

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  • #16
    How ridiculous the scenes in parliament that Rayboulds support emanates from everybody across the house and the attacks emanate from her own party, an most specifically Trudeau and Boissoinault addressing her with contempt. 3 times yesterday during the Boissoinault attack Raybould had to ask the chair to intervene. That's her own party.


    Sometimes we have to stop and think how bad this is. Also that the one liberal here invoking integrity is the one being villifed by much of the rest of the party. "Difficult to get along with" "Stubborn" "Seeing things her own way" This person being muzzled, spoken for (erroneously by the PM on multiple occasions) and being fired.


    Sunny days though. Theres nothing possibly wrong with this latest Liberal scandal.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

    Comment


    • #17
      [QUOTE=Replacement;921689]
      Originally posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
      Interesting that you're siding with JT on this and framing it as manipulative, self serving, female blind ambition, on the part of Raybould. What a disgustingly ironic pov.
      In fairness, I don't think EDP was framing Raybould's possible political ambitions as specifically female.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by sweetcrude View Post
        This not only is a political blemish, this sinks the election for the Liberals.

        Or, perhaps Canadians can't be awaken from their slumber and nothing will happen. Canadians though, in my experience, sway their votes much more wildly than other countries so I'd expect a mandate change this coming election.
        Interesting views. But swing, from the context of Canada, or Alberta politics isn't all that remarkable. I have less faith in the electorate than you are voicing. This electorate returned Chretien govts. The country remains as partisan as ever. Now with more parties its even much more likely that vote splitting occurs and that the Liberals maintain a majority government.

        I hold more hope in this scandal being pursued and investigated and with possible criminal charges.

        Next, its not necessarily slumber. Everybody is talking about this scandal. Everybody aware of it. But few like the alternative. Scheer. It seems the conservatives picked poorly.
        "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

        Comment


        • #19
          Scary thing. Clerk of the privy council will be in charge of monitoring fake news during the election. He has been exposed as involved deeply in this. Who can trust him? His testimony last week, was full of it!
          Animals are my passion.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by overoceans View Post

            In fairness, I don't think EDP was framing Raybould's possible political ambitions as specifically female.
            Neither did Wernick I guess.

            Watch this and see if it changes your perspective on any of this. Michelle Rempel specifically starts confronting Trudeau brand feminism around 5:30 but the whole speech is worth hearing. Especially what the Liberals have done to a strong woman, Raybould.



            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Vx6kmfutc

            Raybould throughout this has been bullied, pushed, talked down to, considered inferior and requiring more input, and not capable of making her own decisions as AG. When she was strong enough to stand ground she was fired for doing so. By a cadre of liberal men, foremost Trudeau, putting undue influence and with Wernick even stating "Trudeau is in kinda a mood that he will make this happen" For all of Rayboulds testimony, and facts, she is told "she is just perceiving this differently"


            Its interesting as well that probably no MP has been more a thorn in Trudeaus side than the strong Rempel who has called out Trudeau's phony feminism countless times. Its interesting how much push back Trudeau is getting from strong females.

            btw I'm using the "strong women, strong female" vernacular out of tribute to Rempel, who invoked it.
            Last edited by Replacement; 28-02-2019, 08:26 AM.
            "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Replacement View Post
              Originally posted by sweetcrude View Post
              This not only is a political blemish, this sinks the election for the Liberals.

              Or, perhaps Canadians can't be awaken from their slumber and nothing will happen. Canadians though, in my experience, sway their votes much more wildly than other countries so I'd expect a mandate change this coming election.
              Interesting views. But swing, from the context of Canada, or Alberta politics isn't all that remarkable. I have less faith in the electorate than you are voicing. This electorate returned Chretien govts. The country remains as partisan as ever. Now with more parties its even much more likely that vote splitting occurs and that the Liberals maintain a majority government.

              I hold more hope in this scandal being pursued and investigated and with possible criminal charges.

              Next, its not necessarily slumber. Everybody is talking about this scandal. Everybody aware of it. But few like the alternative. Scheer. It seems the conservatives picked poorly.
              Largely agree with your statements, except one: "Everybody is talking about this scandal."

              While you and I and other engaged citizens will gladly have hearty discussions about our ongoing history, I know many that literally don't care. It's disappointing, but apathy is probably more broadly prevalent than we hope it to be. Perhaps this story is significant enough to draw people's sustained attention to it.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by sweetcrude View Post
                Largely agree with your statements, except one: "Everybody is talking about this scandal."

                While you and I and other engaged citizens will gladly have hearty discussions about our ongoing history, I know many that literally don't care. It's disappointing, but apathy is probably more broadly prevalent than we hope it to be. Perhaps this story is significant enough to draw people's sustained attention to it.
                The biggest point in your favor is possibly the low voter returns in the byelections which is quite disappointing. I would wonder about the age breakdown in voting as well. It is true that Millennials for instance still exercise their voting rights less? Its important for them to join in democracy to a great extent. They are well represented in public office, but not in the voting.


                Is caring about democracy, and politics age related more than has been demonstrated in studies. If so its one of the main reasons democracy is dying.


                If theres individuals that do not care about what is going on right now in regards to SNC and judicial integrity how and when will they ever care?
                "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

                Comment


                • #23
                  Rempel never needs notes,JT does. She's another very strong woman I applaud.
                  Animals are my passion.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
                    Originally posted by H.L. View Post
                    Why did Trudeau expect JWR to change her mind on SNC?


                    Because there will be an election and he's the MP for Papineau. ..
                    A blatant attempt to influence the justice system for political gain...huge trouble ahead for him and his stink
                    Again, in JER’s own words. It wasn’t illegal. She was never made or directly told to do something specific. She chose not to resign, which is the appropriate thing to do, like those in the Saturday night massacre did. She took another position incabnet and even after stepping down from cabinet has remained a liberal.

                    JWR has her own political ambitions. The volume of calls/meetings may leave a poor taste in our mouths but on the other hand this is poltics. And you cant expect things not to be explored through a political Lense. She was the minister and she had control and made her choice not to interfere. It’s not like she personally choose to procecute. That’s the job of the justice department who will truest be run by the deputy ministers of justice, they are the heavily lifters.

                    I won’t be surprised if JWR has ambitions to be PM. Good on her for it as well....but doesn’t mean she didn’t leak this story and leak it in such a way that it’s done to her benifit.

                    I can respect people who believe that large corporations should be allowed to fail like small ones are. That industries like the oil patch, bombardier, Ford, gm and banks should not get subsidies.. we may even find some common ground. It is not however a reason to make fun or belittle people for things like choosing education as a career and field of study.

                    Outside of a handful of people who are poli geeks I don’t know who will hear any of this over the noise of Cohen and Trumps failed summit. It’s hard to continue to be upset when the person who should be the most upset didn’t resign from the party and admits that nothing illegal was done.
                    She didn’t resign but she was essentially fired from her job and it sure appears that she was fired because she refused to act unprofessionally according to the wishes of people in high places.

                    Her not resigning earlier on is very much like religious followers who stick with their religion and even continue to attend the same church, temple etc. even though they’ve been molested or abused by that religion’s leader(s).

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      She was demoted for not bowing to pressure. She gave her reasons for not resigning, they were clear and concice and nothing to do with being a follower. The one thing JWR isn't, is a follower.
                      Last edited by H.L.; 28-02-2019, 09:21 AM.
                      Animals are my passion.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        What we need is a good honest dictator to straighten this dam country out.
                        Just enjoying another day in paradise.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Replacement View Post
                          Originally posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
                          Originally posted by H.L. View Post
                          Why did Trudeau expect JWR to change her mind on SNC?


                          Because there will be an election and he's the MP for Papineau. ..
                          A blatant attempt to influence the justice system for political gain...huge trouble ahead for him and his stink
                          Again, in JER’s own words. It wasn’t illegal. She was never made or directly told to do something specific. She chose not to resign, which is the appropriate thing to do, like those in the Saturday night massacre did. She took another position incabnet and even after stepping down from cabinet has remained a liberal.

                          JWR has her own political ambitions. The volume of calls/meetings may leave a poor taste in our mouths but on the other hand this is poltics. And you cant expect things not to be explored through a political Lense. She was the minister and she had control and made her choice not to interfere. It’s not like she personally choose to procecute. That’s the job of the justice department who will truest be run by the deputy ministers of justice, they are the heavily lifters.

                          I won’t be surprised if JWR has ambitions to be PM. Good on her for it as well....but doesn’t mean she didn’t leak this story and leak it in such a way that it’s done to her benifit.

                          I can respect people who believe that large corporations should be allowed to fail like small ones are. That industries like the oil patch, bombardier, Ford, gm and banks should not get subsidies.. we may even find some common ground. It is not however a reason to make fun or belittle people for things like choosing education as a career and field of study.

                          Outside of a handful of people who are poli geeks I don’t know who will hear any of this over the noise of Cohen and Trumps failed summit. It’s hard to continue to be upset when the person who should be the most upset didn’t resign from the party and admits that nothing illegal was done.
                          Interesting that you're siding with JT on this and framing it as manipulative, self serving, female blind ambition, on the part of Raybould. What a disgustingly ironic pov.

                          The most obvious thing in this whole proceeding is that Raybould is exhibiting integrity. But accepting that would cause you to question the liberals, and JT, and so instead you throw integrity under the bus and say its at fault. Blame it on the person that believed in right over wrong and that believed in the integrity and impartiality of the judicial system.
                          You are saying I’m siding with jt.... I never said that.

                          Nor did I deride any ambitions she may or may not have and I even offered support should she have them. What I did say is unpalatable is not the same as illegal and whoever “leaked” this story had reasons.... you can’t ignore that fact.

                          This story has always had and continues to have many interesting angles and it’s not black and white as JWR has pointed out. There are things about it stinks on all sides but everyone agrees nothing illegal happened and JWR ultimately felt that it was so bad that she needed to leave the liberal party. For me actions speak louder than words.

                          As a political nerd i’m very intrigued about the whole mess. I’m also very intrigued about the whole copy cat optic we have going on with all these congressional hearings down in the USA, but our sick fascination to find USA political happenings in Canada is a topic for another thread.
                          Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 28-02-2019, 10:38 AM.
                          "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Replacement View Post
                            Originally posted by sweetcrude View Post
                            This not only is a political blemish, this sinks the election for the Liberals.

                            Or, perhaps Canadians can't be awaken from their slumber and nothing will happen. Canadians though, in my experience, sway their votes much more wildly than other countries so I'd expect a mandate change this coming election.
                            Interesting views. But swing, from the context of Canada, or Alberta politics isn't all that remarkable. I have less faith in the electorate than you are voicing. This electorate returned Chretien govts. The country remains as partisan as ever. Now with more parties its even much more likely that vote splitting occurs and that the Liberals maintain a majority government.

                            I hold more hope in this scandal being pursued and investigated and with possible criminal charges.

                            Next, its not necessarily slumber. Everybody is talking about this scandal. Everybody aware of it. But few like the alternative. Scheer. It seems the conservatives picked poorly.
                            I don’t know how you can expect criminal charges when the former Justice Minister, the PM and the head of the civil service alll agree nothing illegal transpired.
                            "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by H.L. View Post
                              She was demoted for not bowing to pressure. She gave her reasons for not resigning, they were clear and concice and nothing to do with being a follower. The one thing JWR isn't, is a follower.
                              To be fair I doubt you know JWR at all and aren’t really qualified to make such statements. Have you met her? Worked for her?

                              I love the idea of the incorruptible hero, the preverbal political Paladin. However, everyone has bias and blind spots.
                              "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Drumbones View Post
                                What we need is a good honest dictator to straighten this dam country out.
                                The head of SNC sounds like one, heck he even provides hookers for Gaddafi's son! Sick little man, with JT in his back pocket!
                                Animals are my passion.

                                Comment

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