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The BC and Green Hypocrite Lobby Today

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  • #16
    Keep on digging while you pontificate.


    • #17
      The basic flaw in the article, all ideology aside, is evident in the first few words.

      It is not 1951. Nor 1980, nor 2000, nor 2015 --- nor 2019. It is 2018.

      At this point, today, now, it is largely fair to say the strong majority in BC does not want the pipeline, the overwhelming majority in Alberta demands it, and Canadians as a whole are split down the middle. So say the latest polls I've seen; and really a few percent up or down makes no real difference.

      Building pipelines, before it is a business issue, a scientific issue, an economic issue, or even a constitutional issue, is a social one. And really, on each of these grounds it is as easy to find reasons against as it is to find reasons for.

      Business: we are not all Kinder Morgan shareholders, nor should we be. Science: every study is rendered meaningless by whatever cost is assigned to the inevitable first spill when it does occur, and by the subjective decision whether to accept it or not. Economics: I have no idea whether our dependence on oil on balance hurts us or not; but it's clear that, much in the same way as the modern Oilers and their demands for infrastructure are not an unalloyed benefit for Edmonton and Edmonton's worshipful pressure is not good for the quality of play of the Oilers, the negative feedback loops simply have not been discussed as fully as the positive ones. And finally the constitution and the social parts, on which a single sentence cannot say enough.

      Environment is not mentioned explicitly in the division of powers clauses of the BNA act. But if you accept that energy is a provincial responsibility, then Alberta is quite at liberty to mine in whatever form and to give away as much of its oil to the oil industry as it population agrees to. But by the same token you cannot dictate what BC or any other place does about it. You can mine it all you like; but you cannot expect any other place to bring it to market for you -- unless you appeal to a higher authority.

      That higher authority is of course the federal government. By demanding it do something, you are demanding a national energy policy. Much like the one your province agreed to thirty-seven years ago, in another world, but for the same reason -- to transport your crude to market.

      But for years you have said no to any national policy. Your oil, you have all claimed, is yours alone. Now, you are scurrying like little cowards to the feds, to demand what you've always denied.

      And for what? The feds have already sided with you. What exactly do you want them to do more of? Send in tanks? Good god. The feds are stymied by the simple fact that the province next to you has as much social right to its demands as you do for yours, and has definite levers of power on its territory it is no more willing to give away than your own government is willing to give away the levers it has within Alberta.

      You are all like bulls with granite vulva, demanding that the feds do more, more, more, more than they possibly can, while not giving them an iota of credit for having done for you already all they can practically.

      And the people of BC have as much right to their views as you have to yours. You may have more say about what to do with the tar as it is mined; but it is their land you want to send it across, and there their voice has the greater authority. And until you are prepared to accept the practical limits of your desires, you will be as thwarted as you are ever frustrated and full of unbearably tiresome anger -- decades of it.
      Last edited by AShetsen; 24-02-2018, 12:00 AM.


      • #18
        Yet they shall bring across their land all that they may need for their own consumption and business goings on. Without it they would be crippled as 80% of what greater vancover uses comes through Kinder Morgan across the mountains from Alberta. Maybe they should continue to bite the hand that feeds them and they could import oil by ship and rail from other countries the same as eastern and central Canada does. Why that would only make sense. Leave Canada's oil in the ground, import more expensive oil at world price. Leave Canada without billions of dollars and jobs to export and sell surplus oil and keep the entire country poorer. Makes perfect sense. Let's shut everything down today. I hope you have somewhere to go for a new job as Alberta shrinks and all levels of government rack up more and more debt and Saudi and other world suppliers keep expanding, laughing at us all the way to the bank.
        Last edited by Drumbones; 24-02-2018, 06:04 AM.
        Just enjoying another day in paradise.


        • #19
          Alberta's oil does not feed BC.

          It's quite easy to google the following figures from official sources:

          BC's GDP in 2016 was 263 billion dollars.

          Kinder Morgan claims a capacity of 300,000 barrels a day for the pipeline. Canadian prices in 2016 averaged $330/m3 or $52.50 per barrel for conventional oil, and $241/m3 or $38.3 per barrel for the heavy oil. Conventional oil production was running at about 2.4 million m3 or 380,000 barrels per month throughout 2016; heavy crude was variable but typically around 12 million m3 or just under 2 million barrels per month, which averages to an effective value of around CAD $40 per barrel for Alberta crude.

          At this price of 40 dollars a barrel, the pipeline transported a maximum capacity of $4.4 billion dollars. Assuming BC ate all of it, that represents 1.67% of their GDP.

          Now assume they have to replace all that oil with the international supply. The average oil price in 2016 was $45 US or approx $60 CAD.

          This represents a 2.2 billion dollar hit to the BC economy, or 0.8-0.9% of GDP. That's not quite "being fed" by Alberta, and local boosters should simply get over themselves.

          And in any case, they may be willing to pay it if they feel that strongly about the environmental (and political/land claims etc) consequences of the pipeline. It is as much their choice as it is the choice of Albertans to keep drinking oil.

          Because the reason you keep wanting to drink, er, mine, oil is the reason you may have to look for a job somewhere else. No one has a responsibility to consume the oil you produce.
          Last edited by AShetsen; 24-02-2018, 01:01 AM.