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A real nation would not let this happen

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  • A real nation would not let this happen

    We care more about postal service, child care and tax credits for the suburban middle class than we do Aboriginal issues. What kind of a nation are we?
    http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/a...t-this-happen/
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  • #2
    I suspect that the long term fix for this problem (renegotiation of treaties to provide a substantial, but final compensation for the occupation of the continent and all other past and present wrongs, and an elimination of all forms of differential treatment going forward) would be horribly unpopular with aboriginals and non-aboriginals alike. No wonder nobody wants to talk about it during an election.

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    • #3
      Ahhh the sandbag thread. I'll bite and start the moral mudslinging.

      First, aboriginals need to start helping themselves...
      Time spent in the Rockies is never deducted from the rest of your life

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      • #4
        Aboriginal issues will start to take a leading role in the future as the rapidly growing Aboriginal population starts to form a key block of voters, especially considering the current trend of "democratic waking up". Previously many Aboriginal people did not vote as it is a tacit acceptance of the colonial system, but now they have had enough and are ready to exert their influence.

        ^ "Pull themselves up by their bootstraps" comments are not helpful. First off, poverty is cyclical. Secondly, there are real fundamental questions about human rights that need to be addressed regarding Aboriginal peoples. Yes, there are corruption problems in some reserves (this is getting better, actually), but that does not negate their rights.

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        • #5
          That being said, they're less than 6% of the population. 6% voting as a block certainly can swing a number of the closer ridings & races but given that most of the First Nations are rural & surrounded by the types of conservative residents who are most opposed to further reforms & support for them it seems like an uphill battle for them from the get go.
          Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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          • #6
            ^ 15-20 years from now there will be a number of ridings with majority Aboriginal population. They will decide who takes the ridings, especially in Mb and Sask which are predicted to be 20-24 per cent Aboriginal by 2031.

            The other huge influence is the "democratic awakening" we are seeing in this community, as many people warm to the idea of voting. That many people finding their voice would make a huge difference in election results.

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            • #7
              I'd definitely see them having a massive impact in everything up to Provincial level politics, but on a Federal level even if a pro-First Nations cadre swept Saskatchewan, Manitoba & the Territories they'd be at less than 10% of the House of Commons.
              Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Jaerdo View Post
                ^ "Pull themselves up by their bootstraps" comments are not helpful. First off, poverty is cyclical. Secondly, there are real fundamental questions about human rights that need to be addressed regarding Aboriginal peoples. Yes, there are corruption problems in some reserves (this is getting better, actually), but that does not negate their rights.
                Given Kitlope's posting history, I would imagine that post was dripping with sarcasm.

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                • #9
                  ^ That is when you just say "whoosh" to me. Sadly I'm more used to hearing that in a serious way than a sarcastic one.

                  Originally posted by noodle View Post
                  I'd definitely see them having a massive impact in everything up to Provincial level politics, but on a Federal level even if a pro-First Nations cadre swept Saskatchewan, Manitoba & the Territories they'd be at less than 10% of the House of Commons.
                  10% is a massive amount of influence when you have three competitive parties constantly around 28-35% share. In fact, they would be one of the most influential special interest groups in the country. The "Aboriginal vote" could swing any one of them into a majority. We will see a lot more pro-Aboriginal policies from all three parties vying for their vote in the future.
                  Last edited by Jaerdo; 02-10-2015, 09:03 AM.

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                  • #10
                    That under-10% is a best-case scenario though, and we've seen over-15% of the House of Commons under the control of a regionally-specific special interest party before & they didn't manage to enact enough change to keep their hold on the electorate & official party status.

                    Are they going to rise in importance as time goes on? Definitely & deservedly so. I just don't think they'll change the face of federal politics in Canada to the degree you do.
                    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jaerdo View Post
                      ^ 15-20 years from now there will be a number of ridings with majority Aboriginal population. They will decide who takes the ridings, especially in Mb and Sask which are predicted to be 20-24 per cent Aboriginal by 2031.

                      The other huge influence is the "democratic awakening" we are seeing in this community, as many people warm to the idea of voting. That many people finding their voice would make a huge difference in election results.
                      The third-world aboriginal birthrate is a result of decades of failed aboriginal policy that has created aboriginal communities with third-world conditions. I hope these problems can be fixed before shifting demographics forces a crisis, but I am not optimistic.

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                      • #12
                        The election is 60 days old, in that time Canadian governments have spent about $1,500.00 on programs per native.
                        http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/mark-mi...b_4455894.html

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                        • #13
                          ^ Running the election will cost $375 million in public dollars.

                          Each of the big three will also likely spend $128,087,430 - the spending limit. That is $759,000,000 spent on an election.

                          Also, in the 60 days that $1500 were spent on programs per native, $750 was spent on health care for every single Albertan and another $250 was spent on k-12 schooling (health care and education for natives is paid for by the fed and constitutes part of that 1500) assuming the old $18 billion health and $6.1 billion k-12 numbers the PCs had. How much more do you think non-natives get in FCSS, parks&rec, infrastructure grants, etc?

                          Far far more per month is spent on non-Aboriginal peoples programs than Aboriginal peoples programs.

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                          • #14
                            Here's a fact to ponder.

                            Aboriginal people in metro Edmonton made 82% of their total income from paid employment. This is slightly higher than the 81.3% of total income that came from paid employment for the total population of metro Edmonton.

                            Sources:
                            http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2...m=&TABID=1

                            http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2...m=&TABID=1

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by East McCauley View Post
                              Here's a fact to ponder.

                              Aboriginal people in metro Edmonton made 82% of their total income from paid employment. This is slightly higher than the 81.3% of total income that came from paid employment for the total population of metro Edmonton.

                              Sources:
                              http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2...m=&TABID=1

                              http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2...m=&TABID=1
                              i think you're cherry picking your statistics more than a little here.

                              yes, the percentage of total after tax incomes from paid employment is pretty much identical but...

                              total mean after tax incomes - which includes aboriginal incomes and would be higher without them - are 32% greater than for aboriginals alone.

                              and total average after tax incomes - which includes aboriginal incomes and would be higher without them - are 26% greater than for aboriginals alone.

                              and if you look at pretax instead of after tax incomes, the above discrepancies become 39% greater for the total population including aboriginals than for aboriginals alone based on mean income and 29% greater for the total population including aboriginals than for aboriginals alone based on average income.

                              it's not nearly as equal as you posited. it's also worth noting that then numbers are only inclusive of individuals who had reported income - even if zero - and individuals who had reported after tax income - even if zero. if all those who did not report - and those who have nothing to report are those most likely not to - where included, the discrepancy would likely be much higher.

                              so ponder away.
                              Last edited by kcantor; 02-10-2015, 06:16 PM.
                              "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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