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Do you still believe in a "hidden agenda?". All same-sex marriages declared legal

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  • Do you still believe in a "hidden agenda?". All same-sex marriages declared legal

    Another pragmatic decision by the Conservatives, a heart felt one as well I think (I wouldn't be surprised if John Baird had some involvement).

    OTTAWA — The Harper government will change the law to legally recognize the marriages of thousands of foreign gay couples, even if the laws of their home country do not.

    The legislative change will apply to all marriages performed in Canada regardless of the laws of the jurisdiction in which the couple live, Justice Minister Rob Nicholson announced Friday.

    “I want to make it very clear that, in our government’s view, these marriages should be valid,” Nicholson said at a news conference in Toronto. “We will change the Civil Marriage Act so that any marriages performed in Canada that aren’t recognized in the couple’s home jurisdiction will be recognized in Canada.”
    http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01...rob-nicholson/

    All of this arose from the problem that foreign couples were unable to get a divorce in Canada. Reading the Act, the lawyers for the crown argued the marriage wasn't valid. Nice to see this whole issue will be cleared up now, and the act corrected.

    So, do people still think the Conservatives have a hidden social agenda? I don't think this decision would have happened, if that were the case. The Conservatives are becoming the "natural governing party of Canada" very rapidly.
    Last edited by moahunter; 13-01-2012, 01:43 PM.

  • #2
    I love how the usual "professional whiner" types were screaming about an agenda when it was the Liberals who put in a flawed law in the first place.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    • #3
      Originally posted by moahunter View Post
      Another pragmatic decision by the Conservatives, a heart felt one as well I think (I wouldn't be surprised if John Baird had some involvement).

      OTTAWA — The Harper government will change the law to legally recognize the marriages of thousands of foreign gay couples, even if the laws of their home country do not.

      The legislative change will apply to all marriages performed in Canada regardless of the laws of the jurisdiction in which the couple live, Justice Minister Rob Nicholson announced Friday.

      “I want to make it very clear that, in our government’s view, these marriages should be valid,” Nicholson said at a news conference in Toronto. “We will change the Civil Marriage Act so that any marriages performed in Canada that aren’t recognized in the couple’s home jurisdiction will be recognized in Canada.”
      http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01...rob-nicholson/

      All of this arose from the problem that foreign couples were unable to get a divorce in Canada. Reading the Act, the lawyers for the crown argued the marriage wasn't valid. Nice to see this whole issue will be cleared up now, and the act corrected.

      So, do people still think the Conservatives have a hidden social agenda? I don't think this decision would have happened, if that were the case. The Conservatives are becoming the "natural governing party of Canada" very rapidly.
      I would thank international media attention...

      I also don't rule out the "game" of politics. it wouldn't be the first time someone creates a problem just so they can solve it.

      Harper's social conservative policies still remain unpopular. Crime bill is the number one example of that. That's where I will stop.

      I'm a chief believer in.. give enough rope and they will hang themselves.
      "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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      • #4
        Originally posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
        Harper's social conservative policies still remain unpopular. Crime bill is the number one example of that. That's where I will stop.
        I don't think they will be too worried going into an election saying they were tough on crime (which was an election plank). And, most Canadians want more prisions:

        OTTAWA — A majority of Canadians support the Conservatives’ costly prison expansion plan but think the government should be compelled to provide the estimated price tag for its entire law-and-order agenda, according to the results of a new poll.

        Fifty-seven per cent of those surveyed said the prison expansion program, estimated to cost at least $2-billion, is a worthwhile initiative, while 43% said it is unaffordable. Those results will take some wind out of the sails of the opposition parties who argue that Canadians don’t want bigger jails and the government is wasting money at a time when the country has a massive deficit.
        http://www.nationalpost.com/news/can...311/story.html

        I think this government is quite clever. They aren't attempting to change other social issues like opposition parties claimed they would (right to choose, gay marriage, etc.), they are even embracing them (like with gay marriage). But, they have picked one issue that most Canadians are actually quite conservative on socially and that is important to their base, which is crime, and focused on that. Its not a hidden agenda though, they have been very open about it.

        At the next election, IMO "We are tough on crime and built more prisions to house criminals like we said we would" is an easier policy to sound bite and will win more votes than "They were tough in the wrong way", or "they should have been softer on crime", or "they spent too much on crime prevention".
        Last edited by moahunter; 13-01-2012, 02:36 PM.

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        • #5
          Love it...

          http://sorryworld.ca/
          "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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          • #6
            ^those who wrote it clearly haven't read the NDP or Liberal policies, neither of which include decriminalizing marijuana.

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            • #7
              They must have realized it's good for the economy to have tourists spending money here.
              $2.00 $2.25 $2.50 $2.75 $2.85 $3.00 $3.20 $3.25

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              • #8
                Still love it Moa...

                Harper does not represent my Canada.. And as the party moves more central I can't wait to see the Right wing dingbats breakaway and (re)form another party...
                "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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                • #9
                  Tempest in a teapot from the get-go. There's no agenda. Harper, and Canada, are fine with gay marriage and that won't change. At best it would be political suicide, at worst it would hurt the image of Canada as a progressive country.

                  I personally was dismayed at the rhetoric from the left and specifically Dan Savage. I'm a big fan of his, and of gay rights, and feel he used his position to motivate the entire gay rights movement to call for blood before taking the time to understand that some low-level lawyer peon made a stupid call because of stupid Liberal legislation.

                  Right, left, who cares. The Liberals enacted poorly written legislation and now the Conservatives have fixed it so it works as intended. Government actually works for once and no one seems to be happy.
                  "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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                  • #10
                    Hold the nervous breakdown. Ottawa pledges no change to same-sex marriage

                    ^similar thoughts here. The sad thing is, a whole lot of couples got genuinely upset over something that was never the intention of the government, all because of attempts at political point scoring:

                    The federal government spoiled a perfectly good bout of left-wing hysteria on Friday, when it quickly moved to rectify a law that appeared to put the status of some same-sex marriages in doubt.

                    A government official told Postmedia News Ottawa would change the law to ensure the marriages of the thousands of gay couples who travel to Canada to wed are legally recognized here. This parroted a statement by Justice Minister Rob Nicholson on Thursday to the same effect: “I will be looking at options to clarify the law so that marriages performed in Canada can be undone in Canada.” It also followed an assurance by Prime Minister Stephen Harper that his government had no intention of reopening the issue of same-sex marriages.

                    Despite all the assurances, the hounds of the “hidden agenda” were in full throat, baying that social conservatives embedded throughout the government were attempting to export their allegedly anti-gay biases beyond Canada’s borders. Given a choice between taking the Prime Minister and Justice Minister at their word, or assuming they were bald-face liars, the usual suspects within Canada’s media assumed they were lying.
                    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...-sex-marriage/

                    Do you think we will see apologies now from all the media claiming the government wanted to export banning saming sex marriage, even though that has never been governement policy, and was denied immeidatley after the government became aware of this (i.e. on Thursday)? Nah, easier to just shut up and let the ignorant mud try to stick.

                    Its funny, I can't help thinking the "left" media is just sitting in wait, constantly hoping that the government will do something that supports the Liberals earlier claims of a hidden agenda / red-eyed Harper. But, what is infuriating them the most, is that, the Conservatives who always denied this, have proven to be true to their word. The left actually "wants" Stephen Harper to try and impose such an agenda, so they can be proven right (even though such an agenda is exactly what Canada doesn't need, which Harper understands per many interviews since he gained power).
                    Last edited by moahunter; 13-01-2012, 03:58 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
                      I love how the usual "professional whiner" types were screaming about an agenda when it was the Liberals who put in a flawed law in the first place.
                      Writing law is complicated and it is not uncommon for intent and interpretation to differ after a law is passed. I see one of the roles of the courts as hunting for bugs in the law that the government can then correct.

                      "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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                      • #12
                        Do not think that Harper or the conservatives actually care about gay rights...they simply wanted to avoid the mass fallout that would have come if they had held their position.

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                        • #13
                          Harper used gay rights to win his first minority...

                          promising a "free" vote in parliament. When he knew a reversal of the law would never happen. It just pandered to the Right Wing Nut Jobs in his party.

                          People playing partisan politics with my rights is not okay with me
                          "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
                            Originally posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
                            I love how the usual "professional whiner" types were screaming about an agenda when it was the Liberals who put in a flawed law in the first place.
                            Writing law is complicated and it is not uncommon for intent and interpretation to differ after a law is passed. I see one of the roles of the courts as hunting for bugs in the law that the government can then correct.
                            The system actually worked perfectly. The Liberals put in place a piece of legislation that had an unintended flaw. The justice department interpreted that legislation (correctly, but unfairly). And the government of the day has annouced they will fix the legislation to correct the flaw (they actually announced this back on Thursday, although left wing media chose to ignore and run hysterical and false headlines).

                            Why it turned into a political football which has raked Canada's name through the mud, and uneccesarily upset many people, is simply politics as usual (including Conservatives now blaming Liberals, which also isn't fair, albeit it less so than the hidden agenda claims).
                            Last edited by moahunter; 13-01-2012, 04:39 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by edmonton daily photo View Post

                              I would thank international media attention...

                              I also don't rule out the "game" of politics. it wouldn't be the first time someone creates a problem just so they can solve it.

                              Harper's social conservative policies still remain unpopular. Crime bill is the number one example of that. That's where I will stop.

                              I'm a chief believer in.. give enough rope and they will hang themselves.

                              International media? Hard to believe that one. How many other countries recognize gay rights? Must be the same international media that was critical of our bank regulation during the credit crisis.

                              Harper is smart. Don't pick battles you can't win... Or more likely, if it's not on you agenda, don't fight he battle. He's not going to be distracted from his own priorities.

                              On the anti-conservative spin... The other day people were calling in to CBC discussion of the fate of the Liberal Party suggesting that we have to fear a dictatorship, monopoly, etc comping out of the Conservative majority. I thought it was interesting as I bet they'd have never thought that of the Liberal majority post Mulroney.
                              Last edited by KC; 14-01-2012, 08:58 AM.

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