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  • #16
    Originally posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Originally posted by KC View Post
    So what lessons from the private school experience can be brought to the debate about funding or de-funding Alberta's private school?
    That one is easy KC.

    Diversity in schooling is good. Cirriculum must be mandated and teaching standards must also be high and enforced.

    Funding should be attached to the student K-12 then let the families decide ... all schools should be considered public schools, as long as all students are welcomed.

    IMO
    This is Alberta. Don't we prefer all our eggs in one basket?

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    • #17
      If you look at education taxes, the province isn't paying for the student, the taxpayers are. So why should the province dictate where the money goes? Assign a dollar value for a student for a grade (some grades will be cheaper and others more expensive to teach) and let the money follow the student.

      Curriculum is already mandated and in ways enforced by the achievement tests and diploma exams. They should re-instate the 50% school, 50% diploma exam final score that existed before.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by sundance View Post
        If you look at education taxes, the province isn't paying for the student, the taxpayers are. So why should the province dictate where the money goes? Assign a dollar value for a student for a grade (some grades will be cheaper and others more expensive to teach) and let the money follow the student.

        Curriculum is already mandated and in ways enforced by the achievement tests and diploma exams. They should re-instate the 50% school, 50% diploma exam final score that existed before.
        Couple things Sundance
        1) The Education Tax no where near covers the costs of K-12 Schooling is hugely funded from General revenues. You can confirm through the alberta.gov website.

        2) Funding K-12 is already attached to the student ... on a sliding scale per student dependent on grade, special needs etc. EX: Afew years ago base funding for K-6 was approx $3500.00 per student with no special needs. I am sure it is drastically more now. The money follows the student to which ever school they attend in the public/catholic/distance learning sectors, including charter but not private as I recall.

        IIRC and its all in the Provincal Education Budget and the EPSB Budget.

        IMO

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        • #19
          Okay so school taxes cover a part, but general revenue comes from taxes and oil/gas royalties which arguably a form of tax. The taxpayer is still paying the bill not the government.

          Comment


          • #20
            In 2016 it was $248 million and now it is $162 million?


            Public school board lobbies for government to phase out private school funding | Edmonton Journal

            “Citing the $162-million annual cost of private schools that could be diverted into public schools, the trustees voted 8-1 to lobby Education Minister David Eggen to wean independent schools off public coffers.

            Opposed was trustee Sherry Adams, who said she campaigned on school choice in last fall’s civic election. The five per cent of Alberta students who attend independent schools use two per cent of provincial education funding, she said. If public funding evaporated, private schools would close, and public education expenses would jump as students went into the public system, Adams said. “

            Vice-chairwoman Bridget Stirling said it’s myth that defunding private schools prompts them to close. She pointed to Ontario private schools that operate without public funds.

            Most Alberta independent schools get 70 per cent of the funding per student that a public school receives, ...”


            http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...school-funding
            Last edited by KC; 21-02-2018, 06:49 AM.

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            • #21
              So, again, are special education schools exempt? Why would they be exempt?

              Is it that the School Board doesn’t want to deal with the issues of properly providing for such student needs and having to meet their full educational costs?
              Last edited by KC; 21-02-2018, 12:46 PM.

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              • #22
                Some good philiosophical arguments here in the first article. So don’t these apply equally to the Catholic school system or does this proposal include it?

                Edmonton Public School Board calls on province to phase out funding for private schools

                http://www.cbc.ca/1.4544479


                ‘The system is corrupt’: Edmonton trustee calls for merger of public, Catholic school boards - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

                https://globalnews.ca/news/3758770/t...school-boards/



                Education Facts in Alberta | Fraser Institute

                “The basic math of this argument doesn’t add up. Parents choosing independent schools receive only a partial grant to offset private tuition costs. Specifically, accredited independent schools in Alberta receive either 60 or 70 per cent of the equivalent operating cost per pupil for public schools in the region.

                And this funding only covers operating costs—not capital costs, so the overall contribution is actually less than 60-70 per cent. Put simply, the provincial treasury saves between 30 and 40 per cent of the operating cost of every student attending an independent school plus the entirety of capital costs.

                The second faulty premise is that Alberta doesn’t spend enough on education. Again, this assertion doesn’t comport with the facts. In 2011-12, the most recent year of available data, Alberta spent more per student than any other province on public K-12 education—$13,497 per student in 2011-12 compared to the $11,835 national average. ...”

                ...

                Alberta is one of only three provinces that provide fully-funded Catholic education, and one of only two provinces that provide fully-funded French Catholic education, within the public (and unionized) system. Meanwhile, B.C., which has more than two-and-a-half times the percentage of students attending independent schools, offers religious and a plethora of other choices in education for parents through independent schools—not the public system, like in Alberta.

                This model is considerably less expensive. B.C. spends 85 per cent of what Alberta does on a per pupil basis, with comparable education performance. And the 12.0 per cent of students in independent schools in B.C. underestimates parental demand since more than half of independent schools surveyed in 2011 indicated a wait list for entry....”
                https://www.fraserinstitute.org/arti...-facts-alberta
                Last edited by KC; 21-02-2018, 08:59 AM.

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                • #23
                  If we defund Private Schools then the funding of Catholic Schools needs to be abolished also IMO.
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                  • #24
                    our school boards are so messed up that they shouldn't be attacking other peoples school choices. Let's focus on our students. Let's focus on more important matters.

                    Why do we elect these school board trustees? I think we would be better served by having people with experience running our schools.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Seems like empire building to me.

                      Alberta Education has curriculum standards that all schools must follow to get any funding; and that should be good enough.

                      The public School board seems happy that there is funding for specialized schools of all kinds as long as the money flows through them.
                      There can only be one.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by gwill211 View Post
                        our school boards are so messed up that they shouldn't be attacking other peoples school choices. Let's focus on our students. Let's focus on more important matters.

                        Why do we elect these school board trustees? I think we would be better served by having people with experience running our schools.
                        Curious what kind of experience would you expect them to have? What would make them qualified, in your mind?
                        They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Komrade View Post
                          If we defund Private Schools then the funding of Catholic Schools needs to be abolished also IMO.
                          It is interesting. How much is the Catholic system’s budget?

                          Also proposing to defund some religious schools but not all seems like a deliberately discriminatory action. Even if a position is put forth to defund all religious schools, doing so in the knowledge that there are some sort of constitutional guarantees favouring certain religions and preventing universal secular schooling, is essentially religious discrimination couched in idealized language. It’s a tough situation with our legacy of old beliefs and practices.

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                          • #28
                            I think it would be reasonable to defund further expansion of the Catholic system but otherwise I think that our current system is pretty much ideal.

                            All schools other than public are responsible for their own facilities, while public facilities are all paid for from the public purse. Sounds good.

                            Private and independent schools get 65-75% of the basic instructional funding, only if they follow provincial curriculum and meet provincial standards. Sounds good to me too. Funding schools that don't meet provincial standards or don't follow the curriculum is, I think, where most people would see a problem.
                            There can only be one.

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                            • #29
                              Maybe the taxes parents pay should be assignable. This would remove the added funding that is creating larger pooled funding going to such private schools. That way parents that continue to send their kids to private schools won’t essentially be double taxed for education while other taxpayers without children in school won’t be subsidizing private education.

                              However, again note how they are not going after the funding to all private schools, just some. You really have to wonder about the ethics of the people behind this move. Just note the fair and equitable comment.


                              Public school proponents push for budget cut to Alberta private schools | Edmonton Journal

                              “...

                              The cut should not apply to private schools that educate students with disabilities, said French, who has no relation to...

                              ...

                              “Every dollar that goes to an elite private school is a dollar taken away from the public school that is open to all Albertans for a fair, equitable education,” said Marle Roberts, Alberta president of the Canadian Union of Public Employees. ...”


                              http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...rivate-schools
                              Last edited by KC; 05-03-2018, 10:07 PM.

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