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  • New Arena | Entertainment | Discussion

    Everyone has a right to their own opinion and i very much respect freedom of speech, but i cannot stand when people write on a topic that they obviously know little about. Ignorance be damned.

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    Downtown arena has too much downside
    The Edmonton Journal
    Published: 2:32 am

    Re: "Downtown arena closer to reality: Mandel welcomes Katz offer to add $100M to pot," The Journal, Dec. 14.

    As the pressure for a downtown arena increases, I hope city council will have the courage to resist.

    The tidal wave of parking demand created by an arena would swamp the parking facilities that have slowly grown to accommodate the downtown cultural complex: the library, the Citadel, the Winspear and the art gallery -- not to mention shopping and restaurant facilities.
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    The proximity of an LRT station will have no more effect on parking demand than it has for the current arena in the northeast.

    Thousands will continue to travel by car to hockey games.

    If patrons of the downtown arts and shopping facilities cannot park because hockey fans have filled the parkades, they will stay home. Boards of the arts facilities will then have to choose between letting their organizations die or moving to new locations -- a consequence which will add millions of dollars to the ultimate cost of building a downtown arena.

    There is no need to set the arts and sports communities at loggerheads.

    Douglas Elves, Edmonton


    © The Edmonton Journal 2007


    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  • #2
    It's the equivalence of me writing on the benefits of reindeer droppings on coniferous shrubs in Northern Finland. I know nothing about it, and trying to come across like I do would make me look like a complete fool to anybody how has the slightest idea.

    The guy from Viking cracked me up too.

    Comment


    • #3
      As someone who lives in the downtown 'warehouse' district, I am pleased with the idea of having an arena downtown. Toronto's ACC is right downtown and lots of people are willing to take the train. Sadly there are not enough people who frequent the shopping etc in the arts district at present to even fill parking lots. Downtown is still very much a 'ghost town' in the evenings and I think an arena will bring some life to the area and allow shops to stay open into the evening hours.

      not to mention my property value will skyrocket

      Comment


      • #4
        Unless Douglas Elves is the man in charge of making sure these downtown shopping facilities are open even remotely close to the time a hockey game/concert/monster truck rally (wait, those stay at Rexall) starts during the week, he's so far off base the base is a speck on the horizon. And even if he is, he's still off his rocker.

        As there's more commuters in the core (30000) than spectators in a hockey game (18500) plus the weekly patronage at AGA (2001 annual number for the EAG was 66000, so we'll be generous and double that for post-revamp AGA, and say 2500 a week) plus the entire seating capacity @ The Citadel (~2000 as per their website) and they seem to manage arriving and leaving in a roughly synchronized manner and don't seem to have an issue with parking or traffic. In fact, that's still 7000 people LESS than commuting, and people tend to go to sporting and arts events with more people than they commute to work with.

        A friend of mine was shooting a photo shoot that needed a grimy parkade background this summer. I told him to go to any of the downtown parkades after 6pm as they're almost deserted. He later remarked that his model felt uncomfortable because of the eerie silence in such a large public space.

        it's also almost insulting to think that people who shop, enjoy the arts, and watch sporting events are mutually exclusive?
        Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

        Comment


        • #5
          ^i wouldnt say ghost town, but it definitely needs a ton more people, more attractions, and more places to go to.

          the arena will be HUGE for this city, the oilers, and the downtown.


          Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: This kind of attitude

            Mr. Elves,

            Your concern about the downtown arena competing against other facilities is understood. With a new arena, I would imagine that downtown could get about 7,000 cars, on top of the numbers already parked at existing facilities for concerts, shows or shopping.

            I think if the City goes ahead with the downtown arena, Edmonton needs to consider two things:

            (1) Something like a downtown arena should be factored into Edmonton's Transportation Master Plan. I agree, the new arena will have a significant impact on traffic. Connors Road, 99 Street and Calgary Trail will have rush hour traffic levels, along with 97 Street and 104 Avenue/Stony Plain Road. LRT should be planned for West and SE Expansion, and another bridge across the North Saskatchewan River should be considered.

            (2) The Edmonton downtown parkades will have to coordinate for the additional demand at night. Properly done, we could accommodate the extra cars.

            I look forward to seeing the stakeholders working out a plan.
            "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: This kind of attitude

              Originally posted by The_Cat
              Mr. Elves,

              Your concern about the downtown arena competing against other facilities is understood. With a new arena, I would imagine that downtown could get about 7,000 cars, on top of the numbers already parked at existing facilities for concerts, shows or shopping.

              I think if the City goes ahead with the downtown arena, Edmonton needs to consider two things:

              (1) Something like a downtown arena should be factored into Edmonton's Transportation Master Plan. I agree, the new arena will have a significant impact on traffic. Connors Road, 99 Street and Calgary Trail will have rush hour traffic levels, along with 97 Street and 104 Avenue/Stony Plain Road. LRT should be planned for West and SE Expansion, and another bridge across the North Saskatchewan River should be considered.

              (2) The Edmonton downtown parkades will have to coordinate for the additional demand at night. Properly done, we could accommodate the extra cars.

              I look forward to seeing the stakeholders working out a plan.

              A sold out Oiler game in a new rink might be 18-20,000 which is far less than daily workforce rush hour. Traffic will be no worse and actually less than that. The infrastructure is there and if people complain about driving and parking...take the LRT which will be below the rink.

              parkades wont need to coordinate..they work very well as is


              Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

              Comment


              • #8
                Car vs. City
                Round xⁿ

                Car: ∞
                City: 0

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by bagould
                  Car vs. City
                  Round xⁿ

                  Car: ∞
                  City: 0
                  Not that I agree with this post really, but I just enjoy that someone made an argument using math as the form.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    city - car = + marginal utility


                    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: This kind of attitude

                      Originally posted by IanO
                      Everyone has a right to their own opinion and i very much respect freedom of speech, but i cannot stand when people write on a topic that they obviously know little about. Ignorance be damned.

                      I doubt that there will be a tidal wave of parking demand downtown. Will there be demand? Of course there will be, but I think he's missing a couple of key points.
                      1) Parking can be constructed with a new facility, and
                      2) There will be a learning curve for people to re-learn the downtown

                      The 2nd point is what excites me. I already think we have enough parkade space, but I also think there's enough above ground parking that is within a reasonable walking distance from a new arena that will promote economic activity throughout the downtown.

                      Here's a concept. Oiler games will be played in a venue that has a fixed number of seats (i.e. only a certain number of people can attend). For the first while after a new arena is built, there will be a lot of people who will want to drive. I'm sure if you could chart this, you would see an elevated amount of people attempting to drive at first. Once people start to learn the area (i.e. what is available where) there should be a decline in the amount of parking that is demanded. To accelerate this process, the city would do themselves a favor by limiting the amount of parking that is available on site.

                      If there is such an animal out there, I'd like to see a chart or table that demonstrates how much on site parking is available at various arenas around the continent. I think we already have a good idea of which arenas have limited parking and have benefited their downtown by being there (see Vancouver).

                      Either way, private parking will remain just that... Private! So, shopping patrons, arts goers, etc will still have the parking they require anyway. These are minor issues. If there are infractions they will be dealt with by ticketing and/or towing. That's it. People will learn what they can and cannot do. I'm certain there will be some complaints but they won't be nearly enough or serious enough to outweigh the benefits to our city.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        stationlands has 2500 odd parking spots going to be constructed...hell 850 in epcor tower alone.


                        Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Two things:

                          1) An arena better have proper and adequate urban paking facilities provided.

                          2) They better be able to handle trucks. Far too many of the lots downtown are ill suited for trucks. Remember, we ARE in Alberta no matter how many fanciful dreams we may have about pushing to a transit mecca.
                          LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MylesC
                            Two things:

                            1) An arena better have proper and adequate urban paking facilities provided.

                            2) They better be able to handle trucks. Far too many of the lots downtown are ill suited for trucks. Remember, we ARE in Alberta no matter how many fanciful dreams we may have about pushing to a transit mecca.
                            1. i suspect the new rink would NOT have parking but would make a deal with stationlands.

                            2. true...unfortunately...but most if not all UG can fit most vehicles. My condo parkade is tight, but it has an avalance, an f150, a few suvs.


                            Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by IanO
                              Originally posted by MylesC
                              Two things:

                              1) An arena better have proper and adequate urban paking facilities provided.

                              2) They better be able to handle trucks. Far too many of the lots downtown are ill suited for trucks. Remember, we ARE in Alberta no matter how many fanciful dreams we may have about pushing to a transit mecca.
                              1. i suspect the new rink would NOT have parking but would make a deal with stationlands.

                              2. true...unfortunately...but most if not all UG can fit most vehicles. My condo parkade is tight, but it has an avalance, an f150, a few suvs.
                              Park it at the LRT station in the NE... they have plenty of parking with wide spaces.... you also avoid having to drive into downtown. Simple.
                              A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

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