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  • Council Credibility

    Didn't know where exactly to put this as it involves two topics but in a sense one. It involves council credibility.

    I've been a Mandel backer for a longtime but I find recently that he's a bit unraveled and I question his current thinking and decision making.
    My theory is that at some point in the arena deliberation he just got to the point where he would accept most any deal just to get this done. I'm sensing he's burnt out about this issue, if not in general.

    Some unsettling statements this week by Mandel:

    Re: the museum:

    “I had heard about the $90 million for a long time. It had been committed to. I can’t imagine why our province would have (moved) ahead without some form of commitment.”
    “I’m just surprised and shocked and dismayed that this has come to this.”
    “I’m tired of being screwed as an Albertan. I’m tired of being treated as a second class citizen,” he fumed. “I’m so disappointed, that something that was so important to the city can be snatched away without any consultation. This is unconscionable. It is an absolutely unconscionable act. It’s not even about the money so much. It’s about the disrespect this shows to the city and the people of Edmonton.”
    “As high was I was today for the arena, I am way lower,”
    At the same time as this we have the city going forward and some alderman continuing to talk about provincial funding for the arena as if its a done deal.

    Even though the MSI is tapped out and can't reasonbly be considered as a source of the 100M provincial money.

    So where is the provincial money coming from?

    I find Mandels first quote about the RAM very curious considering this missing 100M in provincial funding for the new arena.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  • #2
    I moved this here as it is a separate topic
    Ow

    Comment


    • #3
      I am not that concerned about the remaining 100M as the money will be found one way or another between RSG and COE. They could just make some adjustments to the existing framework such as increasing the ticket tax. Raising that from 7% to 10% would raise around 50M alone.

      This would also be a popular option for those against using any form of city taxes as it is a user pay fee where those who attend events pay for the facility. Similar to Airport Improvement Fee's, if you don't use the airport you don't have to pay.

      The museum is a much different story as they don't have the revenue streams to draw from that the new arena does.

      Comment


      • #4
        This on the front page of the Edmonton Journal, only a few days after the $450+M arena approved by City Council.


        EDMONTON - Tight funding and growing debt payments mean Edmonton could miss neighbourhood renewal targets and see more potholes on deteriorating arterial roads, budget documents warn.
        <snip>
        There was “insufficient emphasis placed on growth infrastructure prior to 2007, which put the city in a position of playing catch up,” say the documents, which council will discuss Nov. 9.
        The overriding reality today is the city does not have enough funding to meet its infrastructure needs.”
        Debt-servicing charges covered by property taxes are set to peak at $90 million in 2017 from $70 million next year, before starting a long, steady decline.
        Todd Burge, the city’s branch manager of client financial services, said provincial limits would allow Edmonton to borrow another $1.4 billion, but the interest charges would have an impact on taxes.
        “I think there will still be opportunities going ahead, and council has to make those choices — is $1.4 billion enough to deal with (unexpected) emerging issues?”
        But Coun. Tony Caterina said Friday he’s concerned about what lies ahead, particularly for crumbling, older areas.
        <snip>
        Money could be saved by eliminating $30 million for design work on the downtown arena until there’s confirmation of the final $100 million in funding for the project being sought from the province, Caterina said.
        [email protected]


        Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/Expect+mo...#ixzz1cBqnJBQ8
        Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

        Comment


        • #5
          Mandel has every right to be upset. Im glad he is honest with his comments and doesnt walk on eggshells.

          But I agree the missing money for the RAM and the Arena, and talks of the MSI tapped out, this isnt looking to good right now.
          youtube.com/BrothersGrim
          facebook.com/BrothersGrimMusic

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          • #6
            I don't know. Mandel has been solid with what he's had to work with. The problem with Canadian cities is that there is no federal plan for cities - there's no consistent source of funding. Civic politicians are required to play politics with the other levels of government to secure funding.

            I'd rather see municipalites automatically receive more money on a regular basis instead of begging for grants.
            Go down a few dark alleys.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
              This on the front page of the Edmonton Journal, only a few days after the $450+M arena approved by City Council.


              The overriding reality today is the city does not have enough funding to meet its infrastructure needs.”
              hey now! If only that Mandel guy would step-up and champion something to significantly increase the year-to-year tax base... oh wait... never mind - carry on!

              Comment


              • #8
                Wondering whether Henderson is considering Mandels responses as well in stating this:

                http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...001/story.html

                "Quite frankly, we don't know who to be angry with at this point, but it would be criminal if whatever infighting is happening brings this thing crashing down," Coun. Ben Henderson said.
                Clearly Henderson is also upset at the RAM news but he expresses it more appropriately than Mandel did.:

                "I don't understand what the game is and who is playing it. I don't know what else we can do, other than saying to our federal and provincial people, 'Figure it out guys, because this is really critically important, and a huge kick in the teeth to the City of Edmonton.' "
                "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jeff View Post
                  Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
                  This on the front page of the Edmonton Journal, only a few days after the $450+M arena approved by City Council.


                  The overriding reality today is the city does not have enough funding to meet its infrastructure needs.”
                  hey now! If only that Mandel guy would step-up and champion something to significantly increase the year-to-year tax base... oh wait... never mind - carry on!
                  To be honest, Edmonton should be increasing its taxes more than it has in the past. Our taxes are relatively low given the quality and availability of municipal services.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ChrisD View Post
                    Originally posted by Jeff View Post
                    Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
                    This on the front page of the Edmonton Journal, only a few days after the $450+M arena approved by City Council.


                    The overriding reality today is the city does not have enough funding to meet its infrastructure needs.”
                    hey now! If only that Mandel guy would step-up and champion something to significantly increase the year-to-year tax base... oh wait... never mind - carry on!
                    To be honest, Edmonton should be increasing its taxes more than it has in the past. Our taxes are relatively low given the quality and availability of municipal services.
                    Agree with this and that It'll probably happen and more likely if we build the New Arena without provincial funding.

                    I still find Krushell's assertion that no tax dollars will go into this arena a disingenious, and misleading shell game. You can always make the argument that it won't lead to a increase in property tax, but fronting huge money for a new arena, possible shortfalls in CRL, Ticket surcharge, and possible lack of provincial funding makes it increasingly likely that Krushell was basically spreading further myths.

                    I dare say her comments about not requiring additional tax monies will ring false soon enough.
                    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      RAM money - Laurie Hawn put it in writing in his 2009 campaign materials under the heading "Standing Up for Edmonton" that there was an $86 million Federal commitment to this project, so to back out now is not acceptable. Also RAM is not a City project (although it is a huge factor in helping the downtown) so Edmonton should not be asked to choose, as Rona Ambrose has done, between the RAM and LRT for Federal funding. So I am not surprised Mandel is fuming. That is standing up for Edmonton.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Arena boosterism won't bolster reckless move by council

                        Here is an educated opinion on the funding issues for the arena.

                        Arena boosterism won't bolster reckless move by council
                        By Cec Purves, former mayor, Edmonton
                        Edmonton Journal January 19, 2012

                        Re: "Will our arena look like this?; Project manager ICON Venue Group has built several NHL arenas, selects preferred architect," The Journal, "Edmonton plan looks to follow the route Columbus charted," by David Staples and "We'll never know what other options we might have had," by Paula Simons, Jan. 17.
                        After reading Tuesday's Journal with regard to the new arena and the booster-ism, except for the only sane voice - Paula Simons - I was appalled.
                        Daryl Katz may be planning the arena, but he sure isn't paying for it. Council even allowed him to sidestep the $100-million equity investment he volunteered, as the Shaping the City report said was a necessary part of the funding.
                        The report also indicated that at least 30 per cent should come from equity financing. Instead the city will finance the whole $534-million cost of the project. The city has full exposure and responsibility for repayment. Katz has not even given security on his $100 million. <SNIP>

                        To read more on http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...222/story.html
                        Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ya who cares.. Cec was part of city council during the areas that saw our dt historical treasures torn down and a number of other planing travesties... Hardly the steward of edmontons golden age.

                          Blah blah blah... Noise noise noise... Hey cec! We elected theses people... And I am perfectly happy with my choice!

                          Btw... Cec your far from a financial wizard.. Did you not file for bankruptcy in the late 80's?? Yep u sure did!
                          "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Typical, attack the poster (or former mayor) than rather addressing the issue. Nice ad hominem attack.


                            Blah blah blah... Noise noise noise... from the "Arena-at-any-cost" proponents.
                            Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Typical, attack the current mayor rather than addressing the issue (what issue??!!?)

                              blah blah blah.... noise noise noise... from the "my taxdollars better never be touched unless its to build a duplicate street network 10 feet off the ground"
                              A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

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