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Epcor's 24-hectare river valley solar farm plan faces stiff opposition

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  • Postmedia opinion columns aren't worth the electrons wasted linking to them.

    I'll just state that Alberta Environment & Parks has weighed in & advised there's no wildlife, migratory bird, EPEA or water approvals required, under the same government that wrote the Wildlife Directive cited.
    Last edited by noodle; 10-07-2019, 11:32 AM. Reason: My mistake, three articles KC posted are postmedia opinion trash.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    • City refusal to release impact review of Epcor solar farm leaves conservation group frustrated | Edmonton Journal

      https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...oup-frustrated




      Edmonton council puts river valley solar farm proposal on hold | CBC News


      “While Epcor owns the land adjacent to the water treatment plant, the land is currently zoned as a metropolitan recreation and environmental protection zone. The company had requested the zoning be changed to a "direct development control provision" to permit the development of a utility service.
      Under that provision, the city would retain some control of what the final development would look like, including provisions for landscaping and fencing.”

      https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...rred-1.5182494

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      • Originally posted by noodle View Post
        Postmedia opinion columns aren't worth the electrons wasted linking to them.

        I'll just state that Alberta Environment & Parks has weighed in & advised there's no wildlife, migratory bird, EPEA or water approvals required, under the same government that wrote the Wildlife Directive cited.
        Regarding opinions, ours here in c2e are worthless as well. The project is what it is and will be decided by people with zero interest in our opinions and suggestions. They have their echo chamber and we have ours. Here the broad opinions are often uneducated and the narrow opinions, while often educated, seem to lack the multidisciplinary capacity to be broad.

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        • "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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          • and a canadian example from halifax:

            https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/w...ydro-1.5487356
            "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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            • Kind of a neat idea, but we have basically the opposite problem in Edmonton in that our water treatment plants sit below most of the consumption, not above, and therefore water needs to be pumped uphill and not slowed going downhill.

              I wonder if some sort of micro-generation system in high-rise buildings could be installed on the sanitary and storm drainage system to recover some of the energy used to get the water up there in the first place. It may only make sense for storm water, given the problems inherent with sewage. There's already systems that harvest waste heat from sanitary drainage using various methods.
              Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 06-03-2020, 10:03 AM.

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              • Originally posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
                Kind of a neat idea, but we have basically the opposite problem in Edmonton in that our water treatment plants sit below most of the consumption, not above, and therefore water needs to be pumped uphill and not slowed going downhill.
                This. There's literally hundreds of drainage pumping stations throughout Edmonton.
                Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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                • Originally posted by noodle View Post

                  This. There's literally hundreds of drainage pumping stations throughout Edmonton.
                  this. and that...

                  those literally hundreds of drainage pumping stations throughout edmonton are already consuming electricity and can't be eliminated.

                  between those stations however, all of the flow is still gravity powered. the pumps aren't pressuring the system, they're powering lift stations. even if you were only recovering a portion of the electricity used to power them, that portion would be 100% more than is being recovered now.
                  "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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                  • Upon reading, both Halifax & Portland are using treated, clean water on its way to consumers which makes far more sense, as there's no way in hell you'd ever be able to turn a turbine with wastewater given what's in it.

                    And let's not even get into the fact that drainage pipes can be many, many, many meters below the surface, unlike water lines, making installation, maintenance, upkeep, etc, ridiculously hard to maintain complex generation infrastructure. EPCOR can barely manage to maintain the system as-is, much less with the addition of some multi-billion-dollar greenwashing boondoggle on top.
                    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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                    • Originally posted by noodle View Post
                      Upon reading, both Halifax & Portland are using treated, clean water on its way to consumers which makes far more sense, as there's no way in hell you'd ever be able to turn a turbine with wastewater given what's in it.

                      And let's not even get into the fact that drainage pipes can be many, many, many meters below the surface, unlike water lines, making installation, maintenance, upkeep, etc, ridiculously hard to maintain complex generation infrastructure. EPCOR can barely manage to maintain the system as-is, much less with the addition of some multi-billion-dollar greenwashing boondoggle on top.
                      well at least we're now back talking about the same thing i was suggested in this thread last july as worth consideration (epcor's limited ability to manage the system as-is notwithstanding). maybe the recoverable electricity costs could be used to subsidize some of that necessary capacity?
                      "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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                      • Originally posted by kcantor View Post
                        maybe the recoverable electricity costs could be used to subsidize some of that necessary capacity?
                        9-10 figures worth of dollars spent to recover a fraction of a fraction of the energy spent to pump fresh water around would have a negative ROI, hence why I called it greenwashing.

                        EPCOR has far better things to spend money on regarding the ongoing operation, expansion & upgrading of the water & drainage systems' core functionality in Edmonton than adding needless complexity & failure points into the network for what would amount to a negligible return.

                        Originally posted by kcantor View Post
                        epcor's limited ability to manage the system as-is notwithstanding
                        My comment wasn't about EPCOR's management abilities, more about the state of our infrastructure after decades of nickel & diming combined with deferred maintenance/upgrades. The state of the infrastructure, drainage especially, is not great by any metric, but there's only so much money available in the approved rates.
                        Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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                        • I'd doubt that there's enough kinetic energy worth trying to harvest, even from huge storm sewer mains. Maybe in some specific locations where there's large drops down to the river valley. But otherwise those mains are running at fractions of a percent grade and the water barely moves until there's a storm.

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                          • Huge storm sewers can have as little as 0.10% grade. Small services go up to a minimum of 0.40% grade.

                            https://www.epcor.com/products-servi...uidelines.aspx

                            Even then, there's factors that affect how rapidly it actually makes it through the system

                            https://globalnews.ca/news/1988240/e...y-rain-sewers/

                            Even storm runoff wouldn't be readily suitable for running through a turbine, given how much extra crud gets washed down the storm drains. And it'd be a complete non-starter in any of the areas with combined sewers, since sanitary drainage water is super unsuitable to be run through a turbine.

                            Only clean water through the pressurized supply system would even be remotely feasible but given the layout of Edmonton & the water system using the word "feasible" is extremely generous.
                            Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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