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  • Copied posts from the Villeneuve thread - re Alberta Aviation Museum's future

    {ADMIN EDIT}

    These posts come from the VILLENEUVE thread.

    These are for your information only.

    {END EDIT}

    Edmtrekker
    I am puzzled why the Museum won't/can't take the lead role. Maybe they are not staying at their current location long term?
    1) We did, I was lead and it got smacked down.

    A year of planning, working with multiple organizations to create what would have been a massive event celebrating the history over the Canada Day weekend.

    Imagine Spitfire, Hurricane, B-25 Mitchell, F-86 Sabre Jet, B-17 Flying Fortress and 30 other classic and historical aircraft both Civil and Military coming from Canada and the US to create the largest Warbird and Classic aircraft gathering seen in decades.

    And no City of Edmonton dollars in the program.

    With the proven history of past airshows (Namao, EIA and other) having attendance of well over 100,000 persons all factors were in its favor.

    It got squashed. Aircraft and performers had to be released and with no other open dates it was over.

    Now we are so hammered with the dictum coming down we have neither the time or resources (core staff of 5) to try again.

    2) While our intent has always been to remain on site the property line restriction and other restrictions and issues coming down are having us to rework if it will be possible.

    It gets much more complex but the long and the short is that we are now getting decisions and information we should have had (3)/(4) years ago and no funding commitments to support the direction at this time.

    I will say this...I will do everything possible to keep the Museum on this site, it is where the history happened and moving it makes about as much sense as moving The Tyrell Museum to another site.

    In my highly biased personal opinion

  • #2
    EdmTrekker

    To add to my response...

    I can also say that "if" it comes to the point the Museum has to move it will not be the choice of the Alberta Aviation Museum Association.

    The Board of Directors and others have worked diligently, openly and transparently (over the last 3 years) with the City of Edmonton administration to take on a new direction and adapt to what was coming.

    But things like being restricted to the existing property line and others have only come into place over the last number of weeks.

    Now the game has changed and time will tell while we wait for confirmed direction in writing and other issues being discussed over the next few weeks.

    In my highly biased personal opinion

    Comment


    • #3
      1 - Don't feed the ***** (hint, rhymes with droll)....

      2 - Don't feed the *****(hint, rhymes with droll)...

      3 - Don't feed the *****(hint, rhymes with droll)...

      4 - I've made my point.

      5 - That's all very unfortunate, Tom.

      6 - Carry on.
      Slow to 160, contact tower. Slow to 160, contact tower. Slow to...ZZZZZZZZZZ.....

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by YEGatc View Post
        1 - Don't feed the ***** (hint, rhymes with droll)....

        2 - Don't feed the *****(hint, rhymes with droll)...

        3 - Don't feed the *****(hint, rhymes with droll)...

        4 - I've made my point.

        5 - That's all very unfortunate, Tom.

        6 - Carry on.
        Thanks YEGatc

        I am just reaching the end of my patience with the garbage being spewed.

        The Alberta Aviation Museum has grown into the 3rd largest collection in Canada, received National Awards (4) years running from the Canadian Aeronautic Preservation Association, is in the fold of the Smithsonian Mutual Concerns Conference program and acknowledged by our peers Internationally as a leading museum.

        We have done more events, done more to engage the public and created more National front page positive exposure...

        - The Spirit of Edmonton Flights
        - BCATP Tour
        - The Starfighter roll out
        - Bomber Command Medal presentation
        - Visits by Chris Hadfield
        - and many, many others

        than any equivalent not for profit heritage facility I and many others know of.

        In many ways our methods of involving and interesting the public are now being adopted by other museums.

        Yet here at home we fight for survival and some are continually trying to minimize the value, the work and the facility.

        Seems yet another case where Edmonton does realize what it has...worse, is trying to minimize it.

        Just like some are trying to bury the history on the Blatchford site, it's importance to Edmonton, Alberta and Internationally.

        In my highly biased personal opinion.

        Comment


        • #5
          I, for one, am appalled that the museum's footprint is not allowed to remain as is. The fact you need to move the PWA plane after all the work (and cost) it took to get it there, and the few years you've had it on display, is worrisome. Do you have to move any other outdoor displays at this time or is that it for the immediate future? I remember you writing somewhere that your plan is to move some of the refurbishment offsite, presumably to use some of the western sq footage to house some of them... I dunno. Fill me in. Unlike many people, I'm actually an aircraft/aviation enthusiast.
          Slow to 160, contact tower. Slow to 160, contact tower. Slow to...ZZZZZZZZZZ.....

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by YEGatc View Post
            I, for one, am appalled that the museum's footprint is not allowed to remain as is. The fact you need to move the PWA plane after all the work (and cost) it took to get it there, and the few years you've had it on display, is worrisome. Do you have to move any other outdoor displays at this time or is that it for the immediate future? I remember you writing somewhere that your plan is to move some of the refurbishment offsite, presumably to use some of the western sq footage to house some of them... I dunno. Fill me in. Unlike many people, I'm actually an aircraft/aviation enthusiast.
            I have a post put together to reply but...

            I will have to get permission from our President or Vice President and

            Admin...this will take (2) pages to respond to.

            Will that be allowed?

            Comment


            • #7
              Tom, I did not know a lot of the info you shared.

              Comment


              • #8
                YEGatc

                To be fair

                While I wait for the approval to respond to your questions.

                I, for one, am appalled that the museum's footprint is not allowed to remain as is.
                To be clear...the problem is the property line foot print is not changing, but not having access to the taxiways as we always have creates huge issues.

                The rest, which includes why that is a problem, I cannot respond to till approved.

                EdTrekker
                Tom, I did not know a lot of the info you shared.
                Appreciate that, but it's all been out there. Which is why it is so frustrating.

                For more, as with YEGatc, I am waiting for approval.

                In my highly biased personal opinion

                Comment


                • #9
                  Now that I have the approval from the Vice President
                  Originally posted by YEGatc View Post
                  I, for one, am appalled that the museum's footprint is not allowed to remain as is. The fact you need to move the PWA plane after all the work (and cost) it took to get it there, and the few years you've had it on display, is worrisome. Do you have to move any other outdoor displays at this time or is that it for the immediate future? I remember you writing somewhere that your plan is to move some of the refurbishment offsite, presumably to use some of the western sq footage to house some of them... I dunno. Fill me in. Unlike many people, I'm actually an aircraft/aviation enthusiast.
                  YEGatc
                  I, for one, am appalled that the museum's footprint is not allowed to remain as is.
                  To be clear, the actual foot print isn't changing, but that's the problem.

                  As we expected and confirmed this year with our floor change, without the access to the adjacent taxiway this will not happen again as there is not room to move the large aircraft in and out on the existing foot print without major disassembly, which is not practical.

                  Because the 737 extends over the property line as defined and as we have been advised there will be no additional space of any kind it has to move. It can't move it forward, it will break through the 70 year old concrete, even with steel plates underneath is started to go through. This has been a topic for some years to no avail.

                  To make matters worse even if we got it in the property lines somehow when the ramp finally gets replaced we would have no where to move it to allow the ramp to be rebuilt. Talk about Catch 22, now add in that there would not be room to allow for the EPS/RCMP and other exercises/activities/rentals/movie work on the aircraft, which cover the costs of having here and maintaining it...problem gets bigger. Plus the loss of the 737 as a community asset.

                  Not having access to the taxiway ramp also means the end of Large events, like the Battle of Britain parade last weekend and others as well as the types of large events we need to replace revenues that disappear with the airport. It also means no new large aircraft can be added in the future there is no room and will be no way to get them in, even disassembled.

                  From last information the design of the roadways (last information seen, it may have changed) also means the CF-101 Voodoo that has presided over Kingsway since 1999 will have to come down.

                  To adapt to this 10-15 aircraft (both restored and awaiting restoration) along with many other artifacts, needed and irreplaceable aircraft components and several containers of display/equipment/artifacts need to be moved off site as soon as possible to make some room to work.

                  Permanently coming off the field, as an example, is the Spirit of Edmonton Bi Plane that received huge media coverage not long ago.

                  We are currently working on a storage location but nothing finalized yet, or how to pay for it.

                  I remember you writing somewhere that your plan is to move some of the refurbishment offsite
                  This was the plan with the expansion to the hangar North of our location, that hangar with the ramp attached to it gave some room to allow most of what I indicated above to happen. We cannot build to the West of the building as Historic resources has said it will not be allowed and if we eliminate that parking it creates another crisis.

                  Our Board working with City of Edmonton administration believed if not the hangar at least enough room to operate was going to happen.

                  As noted, a number of weeks ago it was made clear it the property line is frozen.

                  Now in order to be able to try and adapt, as well as meet requirements for the impending and needed furnace replacement we also need to figure out how to deal with restoration as unless somehow regulations can be bent and Historic resources convinced to allow huge modifications to the building it will have to move. As a museum it’s pretty tough to justify major modification to a historic site.

                  That area will also be needed for other revenue and educational/display uses to try and make up for revenues we are losing.

                  Now someone is going to say why do you have so many aircraft for the site?
                  Well it was encouraged by the design team for the development and the Blatchford development team, which added to the Board's belief space would be available.

                  Now, through this process we have been working on a series of different plans to adapt to whatever was thrown at us. We have completed phase 1 and are into phase 2 of the long term, but this throws a huge curve ball.

                  With the losses of revenue that are going to happen, the lack of expansion being possible and the restrictions it causes that include additional losses of revenue we are in a tough spot. To this time no funding has been made available to deal with these issues or confirmations on long term funding.

                  Meetings continue. We will see what happens.

                  Now if this had all come down 2-3 years ago when we started to try and get answers from the Blatchford Development and the City we would not have the crisis we do now. We could have been working on instituting plans for the issues and fund raising to cover the costs.

                  But with the determinations coming a short number of weeks ago, it is a huge problem.


                  Thomas Hinderks
                  Executive Director
                  Alberta Aviation Museum Association


                  Admin: I trust the length of this reply will not cause a problem

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Done deal - closing Nov 30
                    http://globalnews.ca/news/840184/clo...entre-airport/
                    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      ^^As much as I am in favour of closing the airport, the inflexibility regarding the property line shocks me. I was always under the impression that the aviation museum was going to be a showpiece attraction on the site.
                      Mike

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No, it should be properly celebrated. With an F-18 fly-by, a big party, unveiling a dozen or more statues that will evenually be placed around Blachford, fireworks, and a big "final take-off parade where citizens can line the runway and watch as many as possible of the aircraft types that ever flew here take off for one last time. Including big, loud jets that I would never otherwise want to see here.

                        And for Pete's sake, wait until all villeneuve is ready. Come on, does anyone actually believe that the redevelopment is anywhere near ready to start?

                        I'm pro closure, but that's just the right way to do things. Remind all of us after this ugly debate that the history here is something to be proud of.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thomas, why don't you make the Alberta Aviation Museum an election issue? Ask all the candidates what they would do to save the museum. We all know that the airport is closed but the museum should be able to acquire more space. It should be possible to purchase an adjacent hangar. Get all 3 levels of government involved, funding for this should be easy to get. Look what the province did for Reynolds and Tyrell museums, and Head smashed in buffalo jump. Tell the media the problem you are facing and they might run an article on it. I knew closing the airport would be a winnable battle. The plight your museum is facing is also a winnable battle, don't give up!
                          Edmonton first, everything else second.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ike9126 View Post
                            ^^As much as I am in favour of closing the airport, the inflexibility regarding the property line shocks me. I was always under the impression that the aviation museum was going to be a showpiece attraction on the site.
                            So was our Board

                            Which is why the position we are in is such a shock to the Board.

                            In my highly biased personal opinion

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thomas H

                              Originally posted by ThomasH View Post
                              Thomas, why don't you make the Alberta Aviation Museum an election issue?
                              I can't till the Board allows me too. Right now they are still trying to work with the parties involved.

                              But trust me...the second they change their mind I'm on it like a stain

                              The plight your museum is facing is also a winnable battle, don't give up!
                              Now ThomasH...We have often been on opposite sides of a discussion but I think one thing I have made very apparent...I never give up.

                              This one will be opposed to the bitter end.

                              In my highly biased personal opinion

                              Comment

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