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Should the city re-name Oliver neighborhood?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by H.L. View Post
    I bet nobody in this thread owns a business ( in Oliver) smh..what a bunch of dreamers, you deserve Donnie!
    And your little dog, too!
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Gemini View Post
      Just drop the 'r' and call it Olive. Rename the area next to it Popeye. I know it sounds stupid but it's just as stupid wanting the name changed in the first place.
      probably wouldn't work...

      most of the early cartoons were quite racist in their presentation of blacks (and this wasn't exclusive to popeye), so much so that many television stations actually edited them prior to airing them. this continued through the war when they virtually nothing more than anti-japanese propaganda.
      "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Gemini View Post
        Just drop the 'r' and call it Olive. Rename the area next to it Popeye. I know it sounds stupid but it's just as stupid wanting the name changed in the first place.
        Oliver wasn't being honored because he was a known supporter of slavery or anything like that. He was being honored because he was an early community leader of Edmonton. I suppose we could remove the names of people honored who are not judged to be good enough or perfect by today's standards, but it would probably involve renaming many, many things with meaningless, but nice sounding generic names like Westside Park.

        Maybe part of reconciliation is not holding on to the grudges and grievances of the past and so what if Mr. Oliver wasn't perfect? Perhaps we can just all accept that and move on without getting into a big crusade about renaming everything.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Dave View Post
          Originally posted by Gemini View Post
          Just drop the 'r' and call it Olive. Rename the area next to it Popeye. I know it sounds stupid but it's just as stupid wanting the name changed in the first place.
          Oliver wasn't being honored because he was a known supporter of slavery or anything like that. He was being honored because he was an early community leader of Edmonton. I suppose we could remove the names of people honored who are not judged to be good enough or perfect by today's standards, but it would probably involve renaming many, many things with meaningless, but nice sounding generic names like Westside Park.

          Maybe part of reconciliation is not holding on to the grudges and grievances of the past and so what if Mr. Oliver wasn't perfect? Perhaps we can just all accept that and move on without getting into a big crusade about renaming everything.
          i think part of the problem is that reconciliation is not about dropping "grudges and grievances of the past" that might be attributed to mr. oliver's not being perfect. the difficulty is that "mr. oliver's not being perfect" and the consequences of that are not historical. they affected and continue to affect living human beings in our community.

          we're not talking about old scars that should no longer be picked at, we're talking about new wounds that continue to be inflicted to this day as a direct consequence. true reconciliation needs to go further than trying to pretend bygones should be bygones and needs to recognize and accept some things still need to be undertaken in order to stop inflicting new wounds.
          "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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          • #80
            Originally posted by kcantor View Post
            Originally posted by Dave View Post
            Originally posted by Gemini View Post
            Just drop the 'r' and call it Olive. Rename the area next to it Popeye. I know it sounds stupid but it's just as stupid wanting the name changed in the first place.
            Oliver wasn't being honored because he was a known supporter of slavery or anything like that. He was being honored because he was an early community leader of Edmonton. I suppose we could remove the names of people honored who are not judged to be good enough or perfect by today's standards, but it would probably involve renaming many, many things with meaningless, but nice sounding generic names like Westside Park.

            Maybe part of reconciliation is not holding on to the grudges and grievances of the past and so what if Mr. Oliver wasn't perfect? Perhaps we can just all accept that and move on without getting into a big crusade about renaming everything.
            i think part of the problem is that reconciliation is not about dropping "grudges and grievances of the past" that might be attributed to mr. oliver's not being perfect. the difficulty is that "mr. oliver's not being perfect" and the consequences of that are not historical. they affected and continue to affect living human beings in our community.

            we're not talking about old scars that should no longer be picked at, we're talking about new wounds that continue to be inflicted to this day as a direct consequence. true reconciliation needs to go further than trying to pretend bygones should be bygones and needs to recognize and accept some things still need to be undertaken in order to stop inflicting new wounds.
            Well, Mr. Oliver is dead and has been for quite a long time. I think you overstate his legacy.

            Yes, he was an elected official. I presume the things he did were based on party policy, advise from government officials, the sentiment of voters and of course his own personal opinions and views. However, his actions were not based soley on the last and perhaps often they were less important than other factors.

            The mistake we make now in misunderstanding history is to attribute everything bad to specific "evil" people in the past. The reality is the actions that were taken then were often in accord with the prevailing political and individual views of the day. I suppose we should blame all our ancestors, in particular those that voted for Mr. Oliver too.

            So those of you that want to blame Mr. Oliver, you can bring the pictures of those ancestors of yours to the park at the renaming and burn them too as part. If you think this sounds ridiculous - quite right, the whole thing is ridiculous.

            We as a society need to take responsibility for the past and not try pin the blame for the problems on the past on a few people like Mr. Oliver who is no longer around to defend himself in any way.

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            • #81
              Just tell the clowns in Oliver that want the name changed that the area is named after Jamie Oliver the chef or John Oliver the comedian. Or even Oliver Twist, there's a character for you.
              Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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              • #82
                A somewhat more complete biography of Frank Oliver is available at this link below:

                http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/oliver_frank_16E.html

                As a newspaper editor and publisher there is a more extensive archive of Oliver's political opinions and racist views than would be the case for other influential early Edmontonians like A.C. Rutherford, John R. Boyle, John A. McDougall or Matthew McCauley all of whom also have neighbourhoods named after them.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Gemini View Post
                  Just tell the clowns in Oliver that want the name changed that the area is named after Jamie Oliver the chef or John Oliver the comedian. Or even Oliver Twist, there's a character for you.
                  LOL! Or Oliver Cromwell. He was a bad dude to some people.
                  Nisi Dominus Frustra

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                  • #84
                    Oliver Clothesoff has had very mixed success as long as I've known him.
                    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
                      Not sure if this was posted yet, but Paula Simons has the best take on this if you ask me
                      http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...ontons-history

                      I agree, really good article. I think the reason this has even been brought up in the first place is a bit silly. People are trying to equate what is happening in the US to our context and it just isn't the same thing.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Spudly View Post
                        Oliver Clothesoff has had very mixed success as long as I've known him.
                        Oh my, the snowflakes are gonna reel at that comment. It's to sexist.
                        Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Gemini View Post
                          Originally posted by Spudly View Post
                          Oliver Clothesoff has had very mixed success as long as I've known him.
                          Oh my, the snowflakes are gonna reel at that comment. It's to sexist.
                          Maybe on the City's website we need a list of all things here named after people, and bio of each including deplorable facts on each.

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