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  • Originally posted by kcantor View Post
    Originally posted by BalancedOP View Post
    Originally posted by moahunter View Post
    Originally posted by B.ike View Post
    I just want this finalized and built anywhere in Edmonton before the UCP comes in, cancels it, and then builds it in Calgary at a later date.
    Its more likely the other way round - NDP desperately needs votes in Calgary to have any hope of forming next government. UCP would be looking for votes in Edmonton (although may not need it if can form Calgary / rural coalition).
    Calgary got the Cancer centre, and the south Medical Campus a few years ago. we got......an announcement that we may in the next few years get a new SW Hospital Campus and up grades to another one. None of that money has been allocated as far as I can see.
    the southern half of the province - through calgary laboratory services - already operates in a manner similar to what is being proposed for here in edmonton.

    Yes I agree, this will also have more research facilities and specialized procedure usually only done in a hospital setting.

    And to add to the dog pile.

    I disagree Ian, this is the right time to build it. Design and Construction costs are way down, yes there is a debt but with cost down it makes more sense than say during the boom.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by OffWhyte View Post
      Originally posted by RichardS View Post
      I am probably more surprised to the reaction that IanO and the DBA are not happy with the move out of the core than with the position that the DBA (via extension of its hired leader/spokesperson) is taking. To expect that the DBA does not like losing headcount is like being surprised that union leaders dislike headcount losses.

      ...
      I for one am not surprised by the DBA's position; that doesn't stop me from pointing out how distasteful it is.

      Moreover--unlike others who discount the DBA's influence--I have concerns that their influence actually carries some weight. Certainly their position on this matter has been echoed by municipal politicians:

      (...edited for brevity. See post 100 for the articles) RichardS
      ...which is exactly what I am saying as well...the whole downtown above all attitude that has arisen post 2005. The contradictions that has brought forth are predictable, somewhat understandable, but highly entertaining from my OCM viewpoint.

      They are also concerning as you lay out. I know that in my Airshow world, this downtown attitude hit when some in administration and council lamented that the Airshow wasn't downtown. I just smiled and let that irony sink in... ...but the attitude can be concerning when defending the turf can become readily embroiled in...er...here or else...
      President and CEO - Airshow.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by RichardS View Post
        Originally posted by IanO View Post
        I am unsure why people here are so confused about a BIA defending its existing employment base.

        Are there opportunities if and when Dynalife moves, absolutely, but a bird in the hand.

        We are funded by and represent Downtown Businesses who rely on patrons from nearby residences, visitors and employers.
        I think most people DO get the predicament, and that if the DBA wanted to defend its employment base, it should.

        What they don't get is...

        a) why the DBA would even dare mention any change in administration helping or hurting their cause,
        b) the unnecessary political capital spent on what is most likely the wrong windmill to tilt at, and
        c) why the DBA isn't pushing harder for new businesses to come to Edmonton and locate downtown...or for new ones to start thinking downtown from Day 1.

        It's about spending your time and resources attracting more appropriate businesses that can exist in a cubicle farm, open floorplate, or readily accessible existing space. Labs...not so much. It is more a question of form, fit, and function. Remember...we aren't Tokyo or Manhattan. People and labs here do have a choice...
        a) publicly elected officials make decisions and those decisions impact future elections.
        b) Losing a major employer is worth an effort and resources.
        c) we most certainly are working on that and have an entire committee dedicated to just that.

        We all have choice and many of us are guided by mandate.


        Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

        Comment


        • Originally posted by IanO View Post
          Originally posted by RichardS View Post
          (...)

          a) why the DBA would even dare mention any change in administration helping or hurting their cause,
          b) the unnecessary political capital spent on what is most likely the wrong windmill to tilt at, and
          c) why the DBA isn't pushing harder for new businesses to come to Edmonton and locate downtown...or for new ones to start thinking downtown from Day 1.

          It's about spending your time and resources attracting more appropriate businesses that can exist in a cubicle farm, open floorplate, or readily accessible existing space. Labs...not so much. It is more a question of form, fit, and function. Remember...we aren't Tokyo or Manhattan. People and labs here do have a choice...
          a) publicly elected officials make decisions and those decisions impact future elections.
          b) Losing a major employer is worth an effort and resources.
          c) we most certainly are working on that and have an entire committee dedicated to just that.

          We all have choice and many of us are guided by mandate.

          Awesome...ok...to counter...

          a) this decision won't affect the outcome of the forthcoming election. Not...one...iota. The political makeup of the province precludes this. Trust me....I have a $1.6B boondoggle in my backyard...and the electorate cares nada!
          b) True. However...this one has been effectively gonzo for about 24 -36 months now. Better capital would be spent on working with all levels of gov't on your answer to c)
          c) ...then that committee should stop tilting at this windmill outside lamenting the loss in b). ...and maybe take the advice of working with a) to get a seat at the table. Effectively...the DBA may have lost it with the new administration comment.
          President and CEO - Airshow.

          Comment


          • If a $400-500,000,000 decision does not impact people's decision on fiscal responsibility, then nothing will I guess.

            We have seats at the table and work collectively with all orders of Government and that is not always easy, but we all want a stronger Alberta.


            Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

            Comment


            • Originally posted by IanO View Post
              I am unsure why people here are so confused about a BIA defending its existing employment base.

              Are there opportunities if and when Dynalife moves, absolutely, but a bird in the hand.

              We are funded by and represent Downtown Businesses who rely on patrons from nearby residences, visitors and employers.
              nobody is confused about a bia defending its existing employment base.

              the confusion arises from tilting at windmills trying to defend an existing employment base that is not terribly well suited for downtown from their perspective, their landlord's perspective or downtown's perspective.

              dynalife is not "a bird in the hand", as has been repeatedly demonstrated, and even more than most businesses they need long-term reliable tenure, something that is not available in their current location or necessarily even in downtown's long term interest. whose to say what the long term cost is of lost business and residential occupancies in and around that podium for the next 40 years by those not wanting to co-locate with a level 4 or 5 lab dealing with hazardous human and environmental waste?

              if and when dynalife moves needs to be up to them, not the local bia, and they have made what appears to be a good business decision for them and the province and in the long-term probably for your bia as well. i think the appropriate expression in the circumstances might well be "suck it up charlie".

              furthermore, in addition to defending it's existing employment base where and when appropriate, it's a bia's role to develop and maintain relationships with its members and, on behalf of its members, with the city who assesses and collects and distributes the bia tax and simply hands it over to you, with other bia's, and with other levels of government. those relationships need to be impartial, respectful and non-political whether you are dealing with administrations or the respective bodies politic. and don't forget that, at least until the move is completed, dynacare is also one of your constituent members and has contributed substantially to dba's efforts since the day they moved in and continues to fund your efforts.
              Last edited by kcantor; 09-01-2018, 06:49 PM.
              "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

              Comment


              • We have had direct conversations with our Mayor, Councillor, MLA, Minister and many members. The consensus is that we want Dynalife to remain where it is. Period.


                Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

                Comment


                • Originally posted by IanO View Post
                  If a $400-500,000,000 decision does not impact people's decision on fiscal responsibility, then nothing will I guess.

                  We have seats at the table and work collectively with all orders of Government and that is not always easy, but we all want a stronger Alberta.
                  That figure is remarkably close to the cost of Rogers Place. Where was the DBA's deference to fiscal responsibility when that was being debated?

                  Comment


                  • Reaching there.


                    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

                    Comment


                    • "I actually heard some news in regards to this Lab. "They" have expressed interest on the north side; around past 137ave out toward St.Albert area.
                      One of the proposals had the site in the old Golden west golf course site, Now owned by Qualico I believe. Mr kantor can correct me if I am wrong."
                      Having read these comments above, the south campus location is a million times better.
                      Edmonton first, everything else second.

                      Comment


                      • ^^Hardly. You only want fiscal prudence when the spending doesn't suit downtown.
                        “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JamesL View Post
                          ^^Hardly. You only want fiscal prudence when the spending doesn't suit downtown.
                          Last time I checked, the ROI on the public dollars for the arena were significant.


                          Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by IanO View Post
                            If a $400-500,000,000 decision does not impact people's decision on fiscal responsibility, then nothing will I guess.

                            We have seats at the table and work collectively with all orders of Government and that is not always easy, but we all want a stronger Alberta.

                            Ian...I just mentioned a portion of a larger project that is 3-4x the $350M that this project is...and the whole boondoggle when put into place is 10-15x your highest $500M tag...and the electorate doesn't care...

                            Politics. Blood sport...it isn't about the "fiscal prudence"...simply put... you don't have the votes. Not only does this lab not belong downtown for many of the reasons stated before, but that $350M+ will buy a heck of a lot more votes than two members of council, one MLA, and a partridge in a pear tree... This not only could be a political decision, but people here have argued quite convincingly that keeping it in situ could be even more fiscally irresponsible than the money spent consolidating it on a more logical site.

                            It sucks for the landlord and for the overall community to lose 750+ headcount...but kcantor and others gave the DBA many correct alternate courses of action... I know you've inherited this position...but just like the GoA, your position inherits the sins and the salvations of the previous...and this lab was, again, gonzo 36+ months ago. It is just taking longer to come to fruition.

                            I appreciate the fervor in wanting to keep several high paying jobs in your district - I wish you and the alleged several people/organizations/politicians supporting this in situ position or expansion luck...
                            President and CEO - Airshow.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by IanO View Post
                              Originally posted by JamesL View Post
                              ^^Hardly. You only want fiscal prudence when the spending doesn't suit downtown.
                              Last time I checked, the ROI on the public dollars for the arena were significant.
                              And they may be for this move too, right?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by IanO View Post
                                We have had direct conversations with our Mayor, Councillor, MLA, Minister and many members. The consensus is that we want Dynalife to remain where it is. Period.
                                wow...

                                the consensus is that we want dynalife to remain where it is??? emphasis added.

                                what happened to all those individuals supporting edmonton's health city initiatives?

                                are you going to tell me that not only would you and the dba be quite happy, but that all of the parties you named would also be quite happy if one of the long-term supporting planks of that initiative is eliminated because keeping dynacare downtown and limiting their ability and the u of a's ability and the province's ability to collect and distribute "big data" in regard to health care needs and delivery and performance could not be met?

                                https://edmontonhealthcity.ca/why-edmonton/

                                https://www.edmonton.ca/city_governm...nitiative.aspx

                                that would be reaching...

                                as RichardS said, i have no idea why you insist on spending the limited amount of political capital we all have as individuals and organizations on this one. and i'm pretty sure that after grabbing the politically expedient emotional news headline of the day that's now lining the birdcage, our mayor, councillor, mla, minister and many members won't - and shouldn't - be prepared to make that same investment.
                                "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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