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  • Originally posted by IanO View Post
    The question then becomes, do we want single use buildings that have transit, but also significant parking facilities with little walkability or connectivity to other things around it, or a more integrated, thoughtful, connected urban centre.

    Do you want more Whyte Aves, 124sts, 118aves or South Edmonton Commons, Currents, power centres?
    You're an architect. Find us an example of a medical superlab that can anchor an urban, walkable South Campus? Or design one? It's pretty much a blank slate - kinda like Blatchford, yes?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

    Comment


    • We are all architects, but I am not one. South Campus has under delivered in almost all regards.


      Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

      Comment


      • Originally posted by IanO View Post
        Or those opportunities could happen Downtown, around the 'health/innovation district'. The Warehouse District has a lot of room to house medical/research/lab space.
        I totally understand your position in having the lab downtown. I don’t know if anyone watched these videos about the economies of agglomeration but they explain the benefits of keeping businesses central.
        https://youtu.be/DIpakXL6F6I
        https://youtu.be/EpUNIKB-WaU
        However if they were to try and keep the lab in the central core there should have been an initiative started years ago. The south campus location is at least connected to the “innovation corridor”
        “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

        Comment


        • Certainly, but disconnected in almost every other way.


          Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

          Comment


          • I think the South Campus location of the lab could allow better access from the U of A hospital and other locations.
            "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

            Comment


            • Regardless of them moving out of downtown. This proposal seems to be a sprawling waste of relatively central real estate. Mayor Iveson and other councillors have been stated Edmonton needs to build up rather then out, for them to use this much square footage implies very few floors and large parking areas. Seems to me you could build something in 1/4 the space with underground parking perhaps 4-5 floors.

              Comment


              • The trend for tech companies is for large floor plates much more efficient for the work they do. It allows for more mixing of people and exchange of ideas. Googles new head office in London next to Kings Cross station is quite long and built on very expensive real estate.
                “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

                Comment


                • Originally posted by IanO View Post
                  Certainly, but disconnected in almost every other way.
                  ...the main thing it is "disconnected" from is a lunchtime dining crowd supporting downtown. From what I gather, this demographic is not normally a group of single urbanites looking for the latest resto-pub with the latest overpriced buck-buck on a plate...nor are they likely the group to meet at the latest bar for after work appies on a routine basis...

                  ...Long hours...research freaks...parents with Suzie in hockey and Billy in dance...combined with the manner of work...makes this something that is not a harbinger of the urbanite's connectivity mantra...

                  To say this is "disconnected" means that the overall lifestyle pattern of the employees currently live, work, and play downtown more than just 9-5. I'm going out on a limb here...but I am guessing not. Do you have the demographic studies in hand to let me or others know what exactly these workers contribute to the downtown outside of parking fees, lease payments, and the Sunterra lunch rush? How many live in the core? How many don't drive? How many frequent after work bars etc? How much flex work time do they have? What quantifiable inflation of the downtown culture and urbanity can you correlate to this current laboratory?

                  ...and yes, you can quantify these numbers. ...and yes, I am genuinely curious. Like I said earlier, I am open to be proven wrong on this one...

                  Please don't take my question as sarcasm...you're mentioning this connectivity...so I'd really like to know how "connected" the current lab set up is...anecdotally it looks pretty bunkerish to me in many respects. I know if I were in the Minister's chair and you came to me with this connectivity hypothesis, I would suddenly sound like a Missourian and say, "Show Me."

                  ...for you forget...the "B" team has probably looked at this 8 ways to Sunday only to find this current proposed option the best one. Now, that doesn't mean the "B" team is correct, but it is their approach. It would take some serious information to convince them otherwise...and they have the Minister's ear.

                  ...and anecdotally the folks I know in Emergency Management for the Province were recently transferred downtown, and they hate it. There is no connectivity love there at all. The grumbling is pretty loud...and some of these folks came from a west end bunker. But, at least the Province is consolidating some headcount in the core...
                  President and CEO - Airshow.

                  Comment


                  • Downtown connectivity - Do lab workers ride bikes?


                    The way to look at this is that the chosen location may create additional traffic headaches thus forcing any long needed solutions to be implemented.
                    Last edited by KC; 10-01-2018, 06:20 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The_Cat View Post
                      I think the South Campus location of the lab could allow better access from the U of A hospital and other locations.
                      I wonder what the traffic counts and frequencies by function would be.

                      Staff
                      Sample deliveries
                      Supply deliveries
                      Waste removal
                      Students
                      __{others?}___



                      Patient safety possibly at risk if new Edmonton super lab not built soon, documents say – Edmonton Journal
                      August 19, 2015

                      “Patient safety could suffer without an urgently needed super lab facility in Edmonton, internal Alberta Health Services documents show, but the NDP government is no closer to finding a solution after it cancelled a $3-billion lab services contract last week.

                      The pressing need for a new testing facility was driving the health authority’s aggressive timeline to overhaul lab services in Edmonton and northern Alberta, the internal memos and presentations show.”


                      http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...-documents-say
                      Last edited by KC; 10-01-2018, 06:29 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by IanO View Post
                        Originally posted by kcantor View Post
                        Originally posted by IanO View Post
                        For the record, I didn't say a change in Government, I said a 'new government'.
                        for the record, in the context of this conversation - or even just in the context of that post in particular - what's the difference between a "change in government" and a "new government"?
                        Come on now Ken.

                        An election is forthcoming and be it the NDP or another, we WILL have a new Government.

                        Is this expenditure the right one at the right time? I say no.

                        Will this have a negative impact on the Downtown, absolutely.
                        ‘Not the right one at the right time’? I think it’s nice to see non-boom/time expenditures.

                        This is from well before the NDP were even elected (a change in government):


                        Alberta Health Services begins search for a private company to build and operate a ‘super-lab’ facility in Edmonton | Edmonton Sun


                        Dec 11, 2013



                        Alberta Health Services has begun its search for a private company to build and operate a "super-lab" facility to handle all medical laboratory testing in Edmonton.

                        A request for proposal (RFP) was issued Wednesday morning, said AHS interim CEO and president Rick Trimp, with a number of "well-resourced" companies already lining up for a shot at the roughly $3-billion contract that will span 15 years to 2030.

                        The RFP aims to consolidate all hospital-based lab services, community testing and lab specimen processing under a single provider...”




                        “The RFP specifies that the facility can be built anywhere in Edmonton, said AHS, but should be co-located with a hospital and preferably somewhere near the University hospital grounds.”






                        http://edmontonsun.com/2013/12/11/al...3-11410a2d4b81
                        Bolding is mine
                        Last edited by KC; 10-01-2018, 07:34 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by IanO View Post
                          Or those opportunities could happen Downtown, around the 'health/innovation district'. The Warehouse District has a lot of room to house medical/research/lab space.
                          How about a proposal to City Hall that all new office space in the City must first be built downtown. Only when the core is full to capacity should anything that could benefit downtown in the slightest be permitted to build outside the DBA boundary.

                          Is that something the DBA would support presenting to city council? After all the D in DBA stands for downtown, right?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by RichardS View Post
                            Originally posted by IanO View Post
                            Certainly, but disconnected in almost every other way.
                            ...the main thing it is "disconnected" from is a lunchtime dining crowd supporting downtown. From what I gather, this demographic is not normally a group of single urbanites looking for the latest resto-pub with the latest overpriced buck-buck on a plate...nor are they likely the group to meet at the latest bar for after work appies on a routine basis...

                            ...Long hours...research freaks...parents with Suzie in hockey and Billy in dance...combined with the manner of work...makes this something that is not a harbinger of the urbanite's connectivity mantra...

                            To say this is "disconnected" means that the overall lifestyle pattern of the employees currently live, work, and play downtown more than just 9-5. I'm going out on a limb here...but I am guessing not. Do you have the demographic studies in hand to let me or others know what exactly these workers contribute to the downtown outside of parking fees, lease payments, and the Sunterra lunch rush? How many live in the core? How many don't drive? How many frequent after work bars etc? How much flex work time do they have? What quantifiable inflation of the downtown culture and urbanity can you correlate to this current laboratory?

                            ...and yes, you can quantify these numbers. ...and yes, I am genuinely curious. Like I said earlier, I am open to be proven wrong on this one...

                            Please don't take my question as sarcasm...you're mentioning this connectivity...so I'd really like to know how "connected" the current lab set up is...anecdotally it looks pretty bunkerish to me in many respects. I know if I were in the Minister's chair and you came to me with this connectivity hypothesis, I would suddenly sound like a Missourian and say, "Show Me."

                            ...for you forget...the "B" team has probably looked at this 8 ways to Sunday only to find this current proposed option the best one. Now, that doesn't mean the "B" team is correct, but it is their approach. It would take some serious information to convince them otherwise...and they have the Minister's ear.

                            ...and anecdotally the folks I know in Emergency Management for the Province were recently transferred downtown, and they hate it. There is no connectivity love there at all. The grumbling is pretty loud...and some of these folks came from a west end bunker. But, at least the Province is consolidating some headcount in the core...
                            I don't think Dynalife does much in the way of research, I think all they do is analyze the tests that are done at their clinics (much of it is blood, stool and urine tests) and send those results to the doctors who requested them. But with the new superlab, research will no doubt be included.

                            As for Emergency Management, I'm sure they loathed losing their free parking lot and access to a Timmy's drive-thru. But people in general loathe change to their daily routines.

                            But if you want disconnect, the current Dynalife lab at Manulife 2 is the dictionary definition of it. I've always disliked its location. It replaced a decent shopping mall and food court. It created a long, roundabout and cheerless pedway to the U of A Extension and the old Enbridge tower on 103rd. It's a large fortified bunker that killed street life on 103 St and 102 St - if Ian wants another Whyte Ave or another 124 St, these ain't it!

                            I hope the new lab will not be some Fort Knox superbunker. I wish it will be well-designed enough to overcome some of the development mistakes on South Campus and be a catalyst of a more liveable and walkable area. Or is that too much to ask?
                            “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by IanO View Post
                              Far from, but we all are mindful of our Provincial finances, vacancies in both Edmonton and Calgary and priorities to correct where we are now. This does not align or support any of that.
                              Originally posted by IanO View Post
                              We are for Downtown, not for dilution of it.
                              Dial back the condescending pomposity, please & thanks.
                              Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by IanO View Post
                                Or those opportunities could happen Downtown, around the 'health/innovation district'. The Warehouse District has a lot of room to house medical/research/lab space.
                                The Urban Warehouse Campus Nightlife Government Medical Health Park Ice Civic District! Katamari all the things into one 8-block zone! Screw the rest of Edmonton until we've jammed that area full of enough "catalysts" that there's no room for reactants!
                                Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

                                Comment

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