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Telus World of Science "Aurora Project"| Expansion | U/C

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  • What planned LRT station?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    • They're not waiting. The project is starting in April with an expected completion by 2018 or 2019. The old RAM building will remain occupied until 2019 and adapting it into a science centre, including IMAX and star theatre as well as expanding gallery space would take a couple of years and cost far more. Remember when the RAM was going to expand rather than move and the bill would have been $200m+. If you believe they'll have trouble raising the money for this expansion I'm not sure who you think would fund a far more expensive project.

      They will not have dedicated LRT stop as the proposed line (still unfunded) does not run on 102n't. The site may have an LRT stop many blocks away but not before 2025 or later presuming the economy recovers.

      Moving to the RAM site would be great if they had arena level funding now, could start the construction now, and could anticipate a direct LRT line to be running when they opened. None of these things is possible. So they make the practical decision to expand the existing facility.

      "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
        What planned LRT station?
        I guess I should say "planned LRT station within walking distance", but I mean the one at 124 Street and 104 Avenue.
        Let's make Edmonton better.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
          They're not waiting. The project is starting in April with an expected completion by 2018 or 2019. The old RAM building will remain occupied until 2019 and adapting it into a science centre, including IMAX and star theatre as well as expanding gallery space would take a couple of years and cost far more. Remember when the RAM was going to expand rather than move and the bill would have been $200m+. If you believe they'll have trouble raising the money for this expansion I'm not sure who you think would fund a far more expensive project.

          They will not have dedicated LRT stop as the proposed line (still unfunded) does not run on 102n't. The site may have an LRT stop many blocks away but not before 2025 or later presuming the economy recovers.

          Moving to the RAM site would be great if they had arena level funding now, could start the construction now, and could anticipate a direct LRT line to be running when they opened. None of these things is possible. So they make the practical decision to expand the existing facility.
          Fair enough, but we're talking about different things. I'm talking strategic City building, you're talking bureaucratic facility evolution. Again, I just hope the powers that will be in 2019 look at their options and learn from how the arena was a success (location and dedication to concept) or how all of Belanger's commissions become nice looking and respected, and then keep the larger City's goals firmly in mind.
          Let's make Edmonton better.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JayBee View Post
            ^ trying to count the number of times I've heard that before. let me know if I should try to make a list.

            But for the love of knowledge, why on Earth not, Vincent?
            There's been way too much invested in the current site. Not to mention that the current site is purpose built to be a science centre, unlike the RAM. It would make absolutely no sense to essentially start over from scratch just because we like the location better or because we desperately want to find a use for an awesome old building.

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            • It's almost too bad the Provincial Archives moved to their new building on the south side. It would be nice to have it centrally located again.

              "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

              Comment


              • TWOS is fine where it is. It would be wasted where RAM is, as TWOS internalizes what it offers, while the old RAM space needs something that maximizes the views. Besides, the old RAM space is simply much too small.
                "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
                  Remember when the RAM was going to expand rather than move and the bill would have been $200m+. If you believe they'll have trouble raising the money for this expansion I'm not sure who you think would fund a far more expensive project.
                  The price tag was actually $400m+ (~$200m to build a new wing, and another ~$200m for expansion/renovation of the existing building). The Klein government initially thought the project would have a much smaller price tag, but the costs quickly rose the more the government delayed and dithered. And those were 2006 dollars!
                  “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
                    It's almost too bad the Provincial Archives moved to their new building on the south side. It would be nice to have it centrally located again.
                    That's what should move back to he RAM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JamesL View Post
                      Originally posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
                      Remember when the RAM was going to expand rather than move and the bill would have been $200m+. If you believe they'll have trouble raising the money for this expansion I'm not sure who you think would fund a far more expensive project.
                      The price tag was actually $400m+ (~$200m to build a new wing, and another ~$200m for expansion/renovation of the existing building). The Klein government initially thought the project would have a much smaller price tag, but the costs quickly rose the more the government delayed and dithered. And those were 2006 dollars!
                      While it would have been about $100m more I still personally wish they had done the expansion at the existing site. That said, the new building does look very good as well.

                      "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by highlander View Post
                        Originally posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
                        It's almost too bad the Provincial Archives moved to their new building on the south side. It would be nice to have it centrally located again.
                        That's what should move back to he RAM.
                        It's a better location but they now have a tailor made building for handling the archives, they won't be moving back.

                        "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

                        Comment


                        • I'm not won over by any of this, I simply don't believe asbestos removal and new mechanical would cost $400 million or $200 million or $40 million, or even that the Province wouldn't do it for us.

                          After that, it's simply a matter of:
                          1. An IMAX Theatre Auditorium ($15 million? $20?)
                          2. One gallery fitted as a planetarium (done easily, no longer requires anything like a 30 metre elevator shaft)
                          3. Pack up and move existing exhibits and components.
                          4. Some time to help cheerlead for the West Valley Line (which might be quicker than we presently expect anyways.)


                          More money than the Clare plan?
                          • Yes, stop thinking you're making any points there, that's obvious and long acknowledged.

                          More upheaval than the Clare plan?
                          • Absolutely, short term pain.


                          But eventually what we have is far, far better for a science centre with far more public relevance and much broader tourist appeal and much better access.

                          How about a science centre with:
                          • A real archaeological dig out the front door?
                          • A real paleontological dig just down the bank?
                          • A real geological strata exibit?
                          • A self guided living ornithological tour?
                          • School tours to the riverbank to study fish and waterbugs?
                          • An observatory that can actually see something other than the moon?


                          And by the way I did some more exact measurements, and following Wadhurst Road from the planned West Valley Line station, old RAM is, get this, closer than the TWOSE entrance is to the Westmount transit centre when remaining on paved trails... Not only is it train service which people actually choose to ride.

                          And as a bonus how about a science centre one could walk around without thinking one is at Costco? (Cardinal excepted, obviously.)

                          It's nothing to do with "we desperately want to find a use for an awesome old building.", it's much more like "we desperately need to find a way to become a more attractive city to locate or visit."

                          It's at the strategic level, not the tactical.
                          Let's make Edmonton better.

                          Comment


                          • Expansion work is starting this spring, so relocation is kinda moot at this point.
                            “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

                            Comment


                            • At whatever juncture, it's still the right thing for the big picture.

                              A waste to expand though, of type but well beyond par with Rexall Place getting new Gold Seats for the last three seasons.
                              Let's make Edmonton better.

                              Comment


                              • Project is underway - $40 million expansion.

                                http://aurora.twose.ca/project-overview/

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