Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Blatchford | Neighbourhood Master Plan | Discussion/Rumours

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by noodle View Post
    It’ll be like what my father-in-law in Sweden. It takes about 2kW to run his heat pump system but it provides close to 7kW in heat/cooling. So it’s 350% efficient compared with direct-connected electric heat.
    is that connected to a central distribution system or to his own field? if it's to his own field, then he will have the capitalized cost of constructing the field to recover on top of the energy required to run the pump system.

    in regard to blatchford, each homeowner won't have their own field to construct and capitalize but, as far as i know, in addition to the power needed to run their pump system, is there not an additional cost from that "city owned utility" that is likely to be on a par with energy purchased from any other distributed provider of energy elsewhere whether power or natural gas for connecting to and drawing heat from or shedding heat to their system enabling them to capitalize their cost? that cost might not claw back all of that "350% efficient" operating efficiency but my guess is it will take a good percentage of it.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

    Comment


    • Originally posted by noodle View Post
      It’ll be like what my father-in-law in Sweden. It takes about 2kW to run his heat pump system but it provides close to 7kW in heat/cooling. So it’s 350% efficient compared with direct-connected electric heat.
      Can this efficiency ratio be maintained in the dead of an Edmonton winter?

      Even if heat pumps can provide all heating/cooling needs with minimal electricity required, what will power all the other appliances, electronics and lighting that will be in the home? Wouldn't homes in Blatchford still need to be connected to the electricity grid to meet those needs?

      Comment


      • Cross-ref. to more information:

        Cold Climate heat pumps

        http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...ate-heat-pumps

        Comment


        • Originally posted by kcantor View Post
          is that connected to a central distribution system or to his own field? if it's to his own field, then he will have the capitalized cost of constructing the field to recover on top of the energy required to run the pump system.
          Home system is under the family land they’ve been on for 300+ years. FIL is also a technician on the regional system, which is centralized akin to Blatchford. The cost of installing the heat pump system at the farm was far less than servicing the land for NG & installing a gas-fired set up, which while not directly comparable in costs is also a similar situation to the mostly-unserviced airport lands.
          Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by East McCauley View Post

            Can this efficiency ratio be maintained in the dead of an Edmonton winter?

            Not sure, Edmonton gets far colder than the vast majority of Sweden.

            Originally posted by East McCauley View Post
            Even if heat pumps can provide all heating/cooling needs with minimal electricity required, what will power all the other appliances, electronics and lighting that will be in the home? Wouldn't homes in Blatchford still need to be connected to the electricity grid to meet those needs?
            Of course. Blatchford was never conceived of or proposed as an off-grid community, just a more sustainable model than the status quo.
            Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

            Comment


            • ^At one time, Blatchford was definitely proposed to be off-grid. There was even a proposal for a wood burning power plant to be located on the site.

              So you are saying the current vision of Blatchford being powered entirely by renewable energy is false or at best misleading? See here: https://blatchfordedmonton.ca/sustainability/

              I suppose property owners could be required to purchase their external power from marketers like Bullfrog Power as a way of not violating the vision.

              Should buildings in Blatchford be connected to the power grid this would allay one of my major concerns about this development. Unless you know for sure, I will await confirmation of this from the city.

              Comment


              • From your own link, they state renewable-only is a "vision", not the plan.

                • Conservation: Blatchford’s energy conservation strategy mandates the construction of high performance buildings to reduce the amount of energy needed for heating and cooling.
                • Efficiency: After reducing the amount of energy needed, the energy that is still required for heating, cooling and providing hot water to buildings will be delivered through an energy efficient system called a District Energy Sharing System (DESS).
                • Renewables: Renewable energy sources, like geoexchange and sewer heat exchange, will tie into the DESS. For the first stage of residential development, a geoexchange field consisting of 570 boreholes is located under the first stormwater pond. Future solar PV installations will also be used to offset the electricity needed to run the DESS equipment.
                All of the info I can find about Blatchford being "off grid" was for heating only, not electricity. Biomass has been off the table for 5+ years. The electrical grid modifications for tying Blatchford in are long underway, with a brand new 240/72kV substation.
                Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by East McCauley View Post
                  ^At one time, Blatchford was definitely proposed to be off-grid. There was even a proposal for a wood burning power plant to be located on the site.

                  So you are saying the current vision of Blatchford being powered entirely by renewable energy is false or at best misleading? See here: https://blatchfordedmonton.ca/sustainability/

                  I suppose property owners could be required to purchase their external power from marketers like Bullfrog Power as a way of not violating the vision.

                  Should buildings in Blatchford be connected to the power grid this would allay one of my major concerns about this development. Unless you know for sure, I will await confirmation of this from the city.
                  Not off-grid, but certainly carbon neutral.


                  Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by East McCauley View Post
                    ^At one time, Blatchford was definitely proposed to be off-grid. There was even a proposal for a wood burning power plant to be located on the site.

                    So you are saying the current vision of Blatchford being powered entirely by renewable energy is false or at best misleading? See here: https://blatchfordedmonton.ca/sustainability/

                    I suppose property owners could be required to purchase their external power from marketers like Bullfrog Power as a way of not violating the vision.

                    Should buildings in Blatchford be connected to the power grid this would allay one of my major concerns about this development. Unless you know for sure, I will await confirmation of this from the city.
                    Yes power will be supplied by EPCOR.

                    The central plant has solar panels on the roof but those are only for the DEC.

                    HP are effective and have been used here for some time now. All depends on the Envelope.

                    Big concern as I've been told is some of the developers were trying to develop a parking structure. That would have taxed the district energy system. I think the local Sustainability group is doing tours of the DEC this week.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by IanO View Post
                      Originally posted by East McCauley View Post
                      ^At one time, Blatchford was definitely proposed to be off-grid. There was even a proposal for a wood burning power plant to be located on the site.

                      So you are saying the current vision of Blatchford being powered entirely by renewable energy is false or at best misleading? See here: https://blatchfordedmonton.ca/sustainability/

                      I suppose property owners could be required to purchase their external power from marketers like Bullfrog Power as a way of not violating the vision.

                      Should buildings in Blatchford be connected to the power grid this would allay one of my major concerns about this development. Unless you know for sure, I will await confirmation of this from the city.
                      Not off-grid, but certainly carbon neutral.
                      "certainly carbon neutral"???

                      without both a definition and a means to achieve, that's a meaningless statement. the most energy inefficient pig of a building around can still be "carbon neutral" simply by purchasing enough credits.

                      even phrases like net zero should note whether their reference is only to annual consumption (which is typically the case) or life cycle costing and replacement of the equipment (which is typically never the case).

                      don't get me wrong, many of the things being done are potentially net positive in terms of our individual and collective foot-prints but there is so much jargon bandied about with little or no regard for accountability that it's hard to ascertain whether the benefits are real or just imagined.
                      "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

                      Comment


                      • While it's a relief to know Blatchford will be hooked up to the Alberta grid, the claim of Blatchford being entirely powered by renewable energy is definitely not true.

                        Link to current sources of Alberta electricity generation here: http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market...DReportServlet

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by kcantor View Post
                          Originally posted by IanO View Post
                          Originally posted by East McCauley View Post
                          ^At one time, Blatchford was definitely proposed to be off-grid. There was even a proposal for a wood burning power plant to be located on the site.

                          So you are saying the current vision of Blatchford being powered entirely by renewable energy is false or at best misleading? See here: https://blatchfordedmonton.ca/sustainability/

                          I suppose property owners could be required to purchase their external power from marketers like Bullfrog Power as a way of not violating the vision.

                          Should buildings in Blatchford be connected to the power grid this would allay one of my major concerns about this development. Unless you know for sure, I will await confirmation of this from the city.
                          Not off-grid, but certainly carbon neutral.
                          "certainly carbon neutral"???

                          without both a definition and a means to achieve, that's a meaningless statement. the most energy inefficient pig of a building around can still be "carbon neutral" simply by purchasing enough credits.

                          even phrases like net zero should note whether their reference is only to annual consumption (which is typically the case) or life cycle costing and replacement of the equipment (which is typically never the case).

                          don't get me wrong, many of the things being done are potentially net positive in terms of our individual and collective foot-prints but there is so much jargon bandied about with little or no regard for accountability that it's hard to ascertain whether the benefits are real or just imagined.
                          "Carbon neutral" is a poor choice of terminology. There are plenty of ways to obfuscate what that actually means and it can become more of a shell game than a meaningful exercise in energy management.

                          The poster could have used the term "net zero" which has a more definitive and clear meaning, with variables that are far easier to measure and quantify. If the development is indeed going to be net zero.
                          Over promise and under deliver. It’s the most Edmonton thing you can do.

                          Comment


                          • There is a tour from 5-6:30 tonight of the district energy centre offered by the Alberta chapter of the Canada Green Building Association. Not sure if there is still space, but info is available here:

                            https://www.cagbc.org/CAGBC/Events/E...4-de62b4606664

                            Comment


                            • To those discussing heat pumps, it seems from the discussion that there is little realization that there are many different types of heat pumps and configurations of the systems. This explains that a bit here: https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/h...t-pump-systems

                              A couple posters seemed to be talking about air-source heat pumps. Those will almost certainly not be used at Blatchford, or really anywhere else in Alberta, because they can't really cope with our cold temperatures. They basically turn in to electric resistance heaters once you get much below -15C or so, although they do continue to improve. I'm fairly sure that various types of water-source heat pumps will be used, and the water-source is the district energy system. In a more typical apartment/condo building, there would be a boiler for heat injection and a chiller or cooling tower for heat rejection out of the water loop, depending on the balance of energy demand in the system (in shoulder seasons the water loop can move heat from South facing units to North facing ones, with no net input from the heat injection/rejection sources).

                              There are thousands, if not tens of thousands of these installed in various apartment and condo projects in the city.

                              Comment


                              • There's a new video on the Blatchford website profiling Chandos Construction's involvement in building the first Energy Centre for the district energy sharing system: https://blatchfordedmonton.ca/chandosvideo/

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X