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  • Air Service Development, Routes, and carrier conversations

    Missed out on NYC again

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...928/story.html

    {ADMIN EDIT - I moved these posts from the Terminal Development thread as these deal with air service and carrier conversations}
    Last edited by Admin; 05-03-2012, 09:24 AM. Reason: Commentary


    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  • #2
    Did you really think AC would add NYC to YEG, lets count the number of transborder flights they supply us................oh wait, it is zero.

    The only airlines that may give us service to the NYC area are Westjet or Continental (as it is an United Eastern hub).

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    • #3
      That's a east coast battl for market share, I wouldn't classify it as a loss as we weren't in the running for those type of flights to ward off WS New slots to start with

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      • #4
        Letter off to AC reminding them how I will continue to fly WJ where possible until we see some fair attention to YEG.


        Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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        • #5
          Unfortunately as long as the majority of Edmontonians are perfectly happy connecting through Calgary, AC will not even give a moment's thought to your letter before they file it under "irrelevant".

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Brentk View Post
            That's a east coast battl for market share, I wouldn't classify it as a loss as we weren't in the running for those type of flights to ward off WS New slots to start with
            Exactly.

            You'd think though, that if the market was really there, AC would have done this without prompting by WS.

            Meaning, this will be a repeat of AC's already-once-failed business plan to match WS on virtually every route.

            And it will be no surprise when, bleeding red ink yet-again, AC bullies its staff to take pay cuts.
            ... gobsmacked

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Vincent View Post
              Unfortunately as long as the majority of Edmontonians are perfectly happy connecting through Calgary, AC will not even give a moment's thought to your letter before they file it under "irrelevant".
              Where did you get the idea its the majority? Its not. Its just a good portion thats all and portion large enough to screw the rest of us. EIA ought top have massive billboards stating if you fly from EIA there you get there faster, help this city etc. Right as you drive by. Or LARGE digital screens announcing the flights that are departing - as in "too bad your not on it".

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              • #8
                Originally posted by EdmTrekker View Post
                Originally posted by Vincent View Post
                Unfortunately as long as the majority of Edmontonians are perfectly happy connecting through Calgary, AC will not even give a moment's thought to your letter before they file it under "irrelevant".
                Where did you get the idea its the majority? Its not. Its just a good portion thats all and portion large enough to screw the rest of us. EIA ought top have massive billboards stating if you fly from EIA there you get there faster, help this city etc. Right as you drive by. Or LARGE digital screens announcing the flights that are departing - as in "too bad your not on it".
                Let me rephrase. The majority of people who have made a habit out of flying through Calgary have been unresponsive to EIAs "Fly Edmonton First" campaign.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by IanO View Post
                  Letter off to AC reminding them how I will continue to fly WJ where possible until we see some fair attention to YEG.
                  Actually Ian, we should organize a signature petition from Edmontonians... I recall in 2009 when Cathay Pacific reduced their flight frequency from Vanvouver, and I emailed Carol Hutchinson suggesting we go after that as we have a large south east Asian base here- Chinese & East Indian etc. She stated they tried, but I don't believe her. To my understanding, roughly 1000 people head to Vancouver daily to board planes for Asian. Think about this folks... That is two Boeing 747+ daily for Edmonton. We could approach leaders of the Chinese and East Indian communities for help; amongst others. I'm guessing the population of south eas Asian would be around 200 000+ in our city. The problem with Air Canada is that, it is emulating the American hub model, and at the same time, try to shut down West Jet with direct route competition. They have no confidence with their own direction; is too worried and focus on what others are doing rather than focussing on themselves. This is why they claim bankruptcy roughly every decade duration. On top this, we need to encourage EIA to go after more B.C population using the 'convenient in/out process' of our aiport. Vancouver is having too many delay problems now.
                  " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Vincent View Post
                    Originally posted by EdmTrekker View Post
                    Originally posted by Vincent View Post
                    Unfortunately as long as the majority of Edmontonians are perfectly happy connecting through Calgary, AC will not even give a moment's thought to your letter before they file it under "irrelevant".
                    Where did you get the idea its the majority? Its not. Its just a good portion thats all and portion large enough to screw the rest of us. EIA ought top have massive billboards stating if you fly from EIA there you get there faster, help this city etc. Right as you drive by. Or LARGE digital screens announcing the flights that are departing - as in "too bad your not on it".
                    Let me rephrase. The majority of people who have made a habit out of flying through Calgary have been unresponsive to EIAs "Fly Edmonton First" campaign.
                    It is this attitude that contributed to our past demises. You ranted the problem; now rave the solution to me like I just did with the above post. Complaining can be done with eyes completely closed and quite frankly, boring.
                    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
                      Originally posted by Vincent View Post

                      Let me rephrase. The majority of people who have made a habit out of flying through Calgary have been unresponsive to EIAs "Fly Edmonton First" campaign.
                      It is this attitude that contributed to our past demises. You ranted the problem; now rave the solution to me like I just did with the above post. Complaining can be done with eyes completely closed and quite frankly, boring.
                      My "attitude" is not the problem. The problem is lack of flights and there's nothing you or I can do about that. The other problem is people bypassing EIA and driving to Calgary. Again, there's nothing you or I can do about that.

                      A small percentage of those people may change their ways if you explain the issue to them, as was evident with the "Fly Edmonton First" campaign. But the vast majority of these people have either given up on EIA or simply couldn't care less. If those people don't change their attitudes, again, there is nothing you or I can do about that.

                      If the airlines don't change their models then this is simply the way it's going to be. And unless you or I have a seat on the board of AC there is nothing you or I can do about that.

                      You going to write a letter? It'll make no difference. Start a petition? Make no difference. What else can you do? Call the troubleshooter? Good luck to you, but unless you have clout you can make no difference.

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                      • #12
                        If one steps back and looks at the full picture you realise that one only makes a difference when they put their money where their mouth is. AC and WS are not going respond to the squeaky wheel of petition or a letter like political figure looking for re-election. They are looking tosses how they can make the most money plan and simple. Ctzn-Ed you stated that you wrote Carol at ERAA about Cathay Pacific and you doubt she even checked see if they would fly to YEG, why do you doubt her? Do you think attracting an airline, not just
                        a New route is simple ? The business community and citizens of Edmonton need to utilize the services they have at YEG. That bringbsaid I would argue that both mentioned have done so. The ERAA says that connections through YYC are down by 10% in the past few years. I would also point out since the 2005 how many New routes have been added from Edmonton. One must realise that YEG has an uphill battle and always will. We are a strong focus city and neither WS or AC want YEG to become two strongoing of a focus city that we hurt their hubs else where. Sucks for us but it is reality ofbthe beast. What do we do? Keep flying routes hat are the best for the airport. Its working! We are seeing growth and more and more we are seeing airlines adding flights.
                        Last edited by Brentk; 27-01-2012, 01:25 PM.

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                        • #13
                          ^^You orated something we already know. What are the solution you think may help? Your idea/s may not be the 'end all solution,' but with collective thoughts, a grand finale could result in something better for us. Currently, you still have the ' I give up; there's nothing we can do...' attitude, and that, my friend, is de(ED)trimental to you and our community. Don't take offence to it... Now join me in coming up with solutions, so we can we can approach EIA... Even people in positions of making changes don't have all the solutions. This is why EIA and every company are
                          not a 'one person' show. Food for thought... I much rather be a loser attempting something to better myself than be a loser and attempt nothing at all. The worse outcome is a no; the ultimate outcome is something that will benefit us all!
                          " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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                          • #14
                            Actually Im not giving up at all. If you knew me its far from that. I do know the industry well, and the industry is old school and set in its ways. To be able to grow our routes the only way to do is by creating money for airlines on risks they take on our market. The ERAA is knows what they are doing. The CEO is a very smart man. What I asked you was how did you know Carol at ERAA never followed up? If you are going to throw someone under the bus you should back it up. Also what is your solution besides being a squeaky wheel, we and the ERAA and the City of Edmonton have done that since deregulation.
                            Last edited by Brentk; 27-01-2012, 01:27 PM.

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                            • #15
                              ^^ Yes, BrentK, you are right! There has been incredible changes- and definitely one step at a time. I did not save the dialogue between her and I, but it was the way she responded that left doubt in my mind... West Jet has served us really well; it's Welfair Canada that I have an issue with... Both have similar business model- with hubs- but WJ realized that doing the American ideology can't be done for our population in Canada. Hence the alteration of their agenda to serve in Edmonton, and the results have been quite prosperous for them. Welfair Canada, in the meantime, focusses on wasting medals in trying to detered WJ from success; all in the meantime, not focussing on their business and improving their business. Why? Inferior complex; perhaps not astute enough to have a vission. Why waste money on metal, take off and landings-gas, landing fees etc. - when you can you have enough passengers here to go direct. They are losing money on duplicate costs. Hubs are fine when dealing with cities like Saskatoon, Regina etc. because their population cannot fill up like Edmonton.

                              As well, I also suggested to them the advantage of advertising to BC residence the advantages of coming to our airport as means of travel as it is smaller, and processing etc would be quicker and more covenient. Why did I suggested this? We in the western world have been so spoiled and demand the Mc Drive through services... What better way than EIA? This has now been confirmed to me through the statement a few days ago... The CEO of Vancouver's airport stated, in part, "they fear Edmonton."
                              On a side note, our geographical location is advantage over Calgary and Vancouver in Western Canada. Flight wise, we get to Asia & Europe faster than they do, and we are right in the centre of Western Canada. If airlines are talking about profits, when you can cut cost for gas, is that profit. One cent thrown away one time is nothing; collectlively over years, well, you get my picture. Throw in a business argument along with 1000s of signature petition...something could result.
                              " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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