Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Even MORE High Speed Rail

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    thank you murtman


    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

    Comment


    • #17
      Murman and IanO, I'm assuming you guys have not read the extensive study done by the C. D. Howe Institute on this topic? It is a great read (about 100 pages long) and cost over a million dollars to make.

      This is a conservative think-tank which looked at all aspects carefully and took only the most conservative estimates. The results were conclusively in favour of building a high-speed rail line between Edmonton and Calgary, saying it would make economic sense. This was about four years ago, before the big boom really started. Perhaps you should take a look at it (I'm trying to find a link for you) and you can then re-think your opinion, perhaps.

      As for Tor & Montreal, I'm not sure where on earth you got the idea that such a rail line between those two cities would not be feasible. It is feasible (as other reports have shown), it is simply the problem that no politician is willing to stand up and say lets do it... same problem as here. All we need are some visionaries.

      And as Spencer mentioned, with such a rail line we could close the Muni (there would be absolutely no use for it anymore) and use the profits to build LRT lines. There are in fact 600 city-owned acres at the city-centre airport, so the windfall would likely be closer to or exceeding $300million.
      "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

      Comment


      • #18
        It was actually the Van Horne Institute... my mistake. Here is the link (136 pages): http://www.vanhorne.info/Reports/HSR%20Full%20Report%20(10%206%202004).pdf
        "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

        Comment


        • #19
          er... so many people commute through mintreal-ottawa-kingston-toronto rail line that your statement doesn't hold water. the reail line works. period. and that line isn't a high speed one. the way I envision it, the train will zoom between two centres in about an hour or 90 min. we actually had a loooooong discussion on this topic in air/rail section of C2E: FOLLOW THIS LINK TO SEE WHAT WAS SAID THEN if you are interested. I am tired of repeating everyhting the second time around, so there...

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by GizmoForMayor
            Murman and IanO, I'm assuming you guys have not read the extensive study done by the C. D. Howe Institute on this topic? It is a great read (about 100 pages long) and cost over a million dollars to make.

            This is a conservative think-tank which looked at all aspects carefully and took only the most conservative estimates. The results were conclusively in favour of building a high-speed rail line between Edmonton and Calgary, saying it would make economic sense. This was about four years ago, before the big boom really started. Perhaps you should take a look at it (I'm trying to find a link for you) and you can then re-think your opinion, perhaps.

            As for Tor & Montreal, I'm not sure where on earth you got the idea that such a rail line between those two cities would not be feasible. It is feasible (as other reports have shown), it is simply the problem that no politician is willing to stand up and say lets do it... same problem as here. All we need are some visionaries.

            And as Spencer mentioned, with such a rail line we could close the Muni (there would be absolutely no use for it anymore) and use the profits to build LRT lines. There are in fact 600 city-owned acres at the city-centre airport, so the windfall would likely be closer to or exceeding $300million.

            the liberals and third party consultants spent a billion or so on a study and then said the gun registry was plausible.


            Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

            Comment


            • #21
              1. HSR is NOT a Muni-killer. The main thrust is our northern mayors. If you think that HSR to Calgary will kill this debate, think again. The use that gets it kept open each and every time is medivacs from our northern communities and the requisite quick like a bunny access to the Alex. No one in the debate really cares about the Calgary businessperson, but the heartstrings on Jonny-not-feelin-so-good is a different story. By that virtue, the government has a field to keep its planes on, and then others jump on the bandwagon.

              2. THE MUNI IS DEAD. LONG LIVE THE MUNI!!!
              My hope is that you can finally get rid of the anger in your heart, and fill it with peace, compassion, understanding, and a desire to uplift rather than suppress.

              After all, we are all together on this home, this pale blue dot, the "only home we've ever known.”

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by RichardS
                1. HSR is NOT a Muni-killer. The main thrust is our northern mayors. If you think that HSR to Calgary will kill this debate, think again. The use that gets it kept open each and every time is medivacs from our northern communities and the requisite quick like a bunny access to the Alex. No one in the debate really cares about the Calgary businessperson, but the heartstrings on Jonny-not-feelin-so-good is a different story. By that virtue, the government has a field to keep its planes on, and then others jump on the bandwagon.

                2. THE MUNI IS DEAD. LONG LIVE THE MUNI!!!
                So, what you're saying is that a hospital out by Nisku that specializes in trauma and industrial accidents would be a Muni killer? Then let's get one going...

                Comment


                • #23
                  OR...

                  just simply LRT or BRT express to the U of A...no need for the HSR pipe dream. If they really like the Alex, then you could say the sLRT, wLRT, and nLRT combined give them access to the U, Mis, and Alex....hello choices.

                  For urgent care, there is STARS.
                  My hope is that you can finally get rid of the anger in your heart, and fill it with peace, compassion, understanding, and a desire to uplift rather than suppress.

                  After all, we are all together on this home, this pale blue dot, the "only home we've ever known.”

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by GizmoForMayor
                    Okay, lets just look at this way:

                    Fact #1: QE2 is getting too crowded with cars. This means we have two options, we can either build a third lane, or build a train, both of which will cost the government about equal amounts of money. The only differences between these two options is that rail travel gives some money back through tickets sales, while building a third lane will NOT. What building a third lane WILL do however, is encourage people to drive more, pollute more and depend less on public transport.
                    Hahahaha...what, QE II crowded?? When?? You obviously haven't driven on any other major expressway in this country. The congestion on Highway 2 is nothing.

                    Fact#2: Our planet is dying from Global Warming. Enough said.

                    Fact#3: Alberta is swimming in money and can theoretically do both build a rail line between calgary and edmonton (perhaps through public/private partnerships) AND extend public transit in all cities.
                    So does this mean they should dump an excessive amount of money on a system that may have a difficult time being supported by our small population?

                    Fact#4: With a high-speed rail line it will become possible to live in one city and work in the other. Think about what this would mean for these two cities! If you live in downtown Edmonton and work in Downtown Calgary (or vise versa), which would be possible if one was willing to communte for 1-1&half hour (which many already do), you would NOT need to get further public transportation at your destination. Unless of course this hypothetical person is too lazy to walk a few blocks, in which case all hope is lost for this planet.
                    If that idea was so rationale and logical, the rail systems between other more populated centers would have been very successful. Fact is most are not.

                    Can we please kill this dicussion regarding high speed rail, because from my perspective, it is too soon.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I think it should be built and the time is now. i think it will be viable and it will open up opportunities not currently available to our cities. i think building this in anticipation of and to promote growth of Edmonton, Red Deer and Calgary is a way better idea than building it in response to the growth. everytime we try to catch up in infrastructure we end up overpaying.
                      i think everyone who are sour on this idea cannot get the big picture in their head or have forgotten how to walk as they've been behind the wheel for a little too long.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        It isn't economically viable. There are so many more urgent priorities than a hit or miss HSR link between Edmonton and Calgary. It will end up being heavily subsidized by the Government, there just simply isn't the population for this to be required.
                        I suggest everyone focus their efforts on things more realistic and actually needed. Chasing this dream isn't worth the effort.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Okay, somebody please explain this to me...

                          You are saying that a railway between calgary and edmonton (it doesn't even have to be 'high speed', but just a railway) is not economically feasible.

                          Can SOMEONE in that case please explain to me how ANTHONY HENDAY DRIVE is economically feasible??? For crying out loud, this is NOT about being economically feasible, it is about moving people! Building roads will get you ZERO dollars in return from drivers, while railways will get you more than half back in user fees... what is so hard to understand?

                          When are we going to wake up and smell the roads-are-not-economically-feasible-either roses? If we spent 1% (that's right, one percent) of what we spend yearly on roads - where we get NO money back from users - on railroads, we'd have a viable pubic transportation system.

                          But instead, we have people babbling on about 'well, it's not feasible' and ignoring legitimate studies that say otherwise, while using gun registry examples that are not in any way relevant to what people are discussing here... no wonder this province is pissing away its second boom without much protest.

                          Sorry people, I'm just in a bad mood. But for god's sake, don't just repeat what politicians say and repeat it without thinking... get your head out of your arse and realize that it's time for Edmonton and Calgary to grow up and act like real cities.
                          "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            all I can say is AAAAMEN!
                            I vote GizmoForMayor for Premier?!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by GizmoForMayor
                              Okay, somebody please explain this to me...

                              You are saying that a railway between calgary and edmonton (it doesn't even have to be 'high speed', but just a railway) is not economically feasible.

                              Can SOMEONE in that case please explain to me how ANTHONY HENDAY DRIVE is economically feasible??? For crying out loud, this is NOT about being economically feasible, it is about moving people! Building roads will get you ZERO dollars in return from drivers, while railways will get you more than half back in user fees... what is so hard to understand?

                              When are we going to wake up and smell the roads-are-not-economically-feasible-either roses? If we spent 1% (that's right, one percent) of what we spend yearly on roads - where we get NO money back from users - on railroads, we'd have a viable pubic transportation system.

                              But instead, we have people babbling on about 'well, it's not feasible' and ignoring legitimate studies that say otherwise, while using gun registry examples that are not in any way relevant to what people are discussing here... no wonder this province is p*ss away its second boom without much protest.

                              Sorry people, I'm just in a bad mood. But for god's sake, don't just repeat what politicians say and repeat it without thinking... get your head out of your arse and realize that it's time for Edmonton and Calgary to grow up and act like real cities.

                              AHD and every road for that matter are worth every penny they cost....hello we pay for them from taxes....that is our "train ticket". Comparing building roads to building a train...come on now...i wont even argue this.

                              While i agree we should have this idea ongoing, WE CANNOT JUSTIFY THIS RIGHT NOW, simple as that.

                              Taking that 1.5billion and expanding QE2 and LRT in both Edmonton and Calgary would provide significantly more benefit to alberta as a whole than a train from edm-cal.

                              im not trying to argue with you, but to say that roads are a zero return is ludicrous.


                              Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ChrisD
                                Originally posted by GizmoForMayor
                                Okay, lets just look at this way:

                                Fact #1: QE2 is getting too crowded with cars. This means we have two options, we can either build a third lane, or build a train, both of which will cost the government about equal amounts of money. The only differences between these two options is that rail travel gives some money back through tickets sales, while building a third lane will NOT. What building a third lane WILL do however, is encourage people to drive more, pollute more and depend less on public transport.
                                Hahahaha...what, QE II crowded?? When?? You obviously haven't driven on any other major expressway in this country. The congestion on Highway 2 is nothing.

                                Fact#2: Our planet is dying from Global Warming. Enough said.

                                Fact#3: Alberta is swimming in money and can theoretically do both build a rail line between calgary and edmonton (perhaps through public/private partnerships) AND extend public transit in all cities.
                                So does this mean they should dump an excessive amount of money on a system that may have a difficult time being supported by our small population?

                                Fact#4: With a high-speed rail line it will become possible to live in one city and work in the other. Think about what this would mean for these two cities! If you live in downtown Edmonton and work in Downtown Calgary (or vise versa), which would be possible if one was willing to communte for 1-1&half hour (which many already do), you would NOT need to get further public transportation at your destination. Unless of course this hypothetical person is too lazy to walk a few blocks, in which case all hope is lost for this planet.
                                If that idea was so rationale and logical, the rail systems between other more populated centers would have very successful. Fact is they are not.

                                Can we please kill this dicussion regarding high speed rail, because from my perspective, it is too soon.
                                Agree. Agree. Agree. Thank you Chris. This HSR discussion is like a house full of c0ckroaches. Just when you think you've FINALLY killed it, another roach sticks its ugly head out...
                                [email protected][email protected]: the 5th Horseman of the Apocalypse

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X