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  • Edmonton is best place for Millennials to get ahead

    Excuse the negative to positive flip on an article about how hard it is to get ahead in Vancouver, but I thought this was pretty cool (emphasis added):

    http://business.financialpost.com/pe...ving-aint-easy

    When it comes to discretionary income, millennials living in Vancouver fare far worse than their counterparts across the country.

    In fact, according to a new report by Vancity, a typical millennial couple — those between the ages of 25 and 34 — buying a home at an average price in Vancouver will have no discretionary income and will rack up debt of $2,745 per year after paying for essential expenses including taxes, health care, food, utilities, transit costs, clothing and housing.

    By comparison, Edmonton has the highest discretionary income in Canada for a typical millennial couple: $47,356.

  • #2
    That's true, but it's possible to get ahead in Vancouver through property ownership. I lived in Edmonton for 2 years and off and on in Fort Mac for another year. Made good money, tons of savings etc... Moved back to Vancouver at the end of last year and threw it all on a down payment for a condo. In half a year I've double the money I invested in appreciation alone. Plus, the condo is rented out for over 2 grand a month and I'm making cash on that as well.

    A young couple will never make any money in appreciation in Edmonton. So yes, disposable income is nill in Vancouver and the culprit is obvious. But even though real estate is eating people's savings, in the medium and long-term people can cash out and be far better off. That's how I'm gonna play this. I'll probably move back to Alberta in 5 years. Or sell the condo downtown and buy something in Burnaby.

    But yes, disposable income is high in Edmonton and I enjoyed the carefree attitude I had when it came to spending money up there.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Abii View Post
      That's true, but it's possible to get ahead in Vancouver through property ownership. I lived in Edmonton for 2 years and off and on in Fort Mac for another year. Made good money, tons of savings etc... Moved back to Vancouver at the end of last year and threw it all on a down payment for a condo. In half a year I've double the money I invested in appreciation alone. Plus, the condo is rented out for over 2 grand a month and I'm making cash on that as well.

      A young couple will never make any money in appreciation in Edmonton. So yes, disposable income is nill in Vancouver and the culprit is obvious. But even though real estate is eating people's savings, in the medium and long-term people can cash out and be far better off. That's how I'm gonna play this. I'll probably move back to Alberta in 5 years. Or sell the condo downtown and buy something in Burnaby.

      But yes, disposable income is high in Edmonton and I enjoyed the carefree attitude I had when it came to spending money up there.
      Great advice to invest in a never ending property bubble that for sure will never level off. You got lucky and hit the timing right in Vancouver, maybe you were even smart and knew it would creep up, but let's not pretend you expected to double your money in a short term property investment.
      If you want to build a life that isn't based on getting lucky in the property market, and live a good balance between cost of living and opportunity I would say Edmonton remains near the top of the list though this latest downturn has normalized things quite a bit...ie endless promotions, unbridled growth and actually having to have reasonable and related experience have come back into play.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DanC View Post
        Originally posted by Abii View Post
        That's true, but it's possible to get ahead in Vancouver through property ownership. I lived in Edmonton for 2 years and off and on in Fort Mac for another year. Made good money, tons of savings etc... Moved back to Vancouver at the end of last year and threw it all on a down payment for a condo. In half a year I've double the money I invested in appreciation alone. Plus, the condo is rented out for over 2 grand a month and I'm making cash on that as well.

        A young couple will never make any money in appreciation in Edmonton. So yes, disposable income is nill in Vancouver and the culprit is obvious. But even though real estate is eating people's savings, in the medium and long-term people can cash out and be far better off. That's how I'm gonna play this. I'll probably move back to Alberta in 5 years. Or sell the condo downtown and buy something in Burnaby.

        But yes, disposable income is high in Edmonton and I enjoyed the carefree attitude I had when it came to spending money up there.
        Great advice to invest in a never ending property bubble that for sure will never level off. You got lucky and hit the timing right in Vancouver, maybe you were even smart and knew it would creep up, but let's not pretend you expected to double your money in a short term property investment.
        If you want to build a life that isn't based on getting lucky in the property market, and live a good balance between cost of living and opportunity I would say Edmonton remains near the top of the list though this latest downturn has normalized things quite a bit...ie endless promotions, unbridled growth and actually having to have reasonable and related experience have come back into play.
        I wasn't smart. I actually lost most of the upswing and insanity over the past couple of years, but there's no reason to assume things will cool down any time soon. I also didn't assume it would go up, it always goes up in Van. I bought in Nov. of 2015 and look how high it was already:

        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChEluzQWUAAyhdx.jpg:large

        All I'm saying is that if the blame for a lack of cash flow in Vancouver is high mortgage costs, then the opposite side of the coin should be looked at as well. Yes, Edmonton living will provide a better cash flow, but the same condo that's eating up a person's monthly savings in Vancouver will be sold for a 200K profit in a 3-5 year period. It's not an ideal situation, but, again, the argument can't be made without looking at the other side of the coin.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Abii View Post
          Originally posted by DanC View Post
          Originally posted by Abii View Post
          That's true, but it's possible to get ahead in Vancouver through property ownership. I lived in Edmonton for 2 years and off and on in Fort Mac for another year. Made good money, tons of savings etc... Moved back to Vancouver at the end of last year and threw it all on a down payment for a condo. In half a year I've double the money I invested in appreciation alone. Plus, the condo is rented out for over 2 grand a month and I'm making cash on that as well.

          A young couple will never make any money in appreciation in Edmonton. So yes, disposable income is nill in Vancouver and the culprit is obvious. But even though real estate is eating people's savings, in the medium and long-term people can cash out and be far better off. That's how I'm gonna play this. I'll probably move back to Alberta in 5 years. Or sell the condo downtown and buy something in Burnaby.

          But yes, disposable income is high in Edmonton and I enjoyed the carefree attitude I had when it came to spending money up there.
          Great advice to invest in a never ending property bubble that for sure will never level off. You got lucky and hit the timing right in Vancouver, maybe you were even smart and knew it would creep up, but let's not pretend you expected to double your money in a short term property investment.
          If you want to build a life that isn't based on getting lucky in the property market, and live a good balance between cost of living and opportunity I would say Edmonton remains near the top of the list though this latest downturn has normalized things quite a bit...ie endless promotions, unbridled growth and actually having to have reasonable and related experience have come back into play.
          I wasn't smart. I actually lost most of the upswing and insanity over the past couple of years, but there's no reason to assume things will cool down any time soon. I also didn't assume it would go up, it always goes up in Van. I bought in Nov. of 2015 and look how high it was already:

          https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChEluzQWUAAyhdx.jpg:large

          All I'm saying is that if the blame for a lack of cash flow in Vancouver is high mortgage costs, then the opposite side of the coin should be looked at as well. Yes, Edmonton living will provide a better cash flow, but the same condo that's eating up a person's monthly savings in Vancouver will be sold for a 200K profit in a 3-5 year period. It's not an ideal situation, but, again, the argument can't be made without looking at the other side of the coin.
          Right and average house prices in Vancouver have no limit. The absurd escalation in housing costs this past year make it a great time to buy it, how could it stop?!
          None of what you bring up is fundamentally sound and there is potentially alot of risk for a young person or millennial trying to play that game.
          That's the whole point.

          Comment


          • #6
            Isn't the BC government looking to find ways to cool prices off by limiting flipping and other measures because housing has become largely unaffordable to most in Vancouver?
            A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Medwards View Post
              Isn't the BC government looking to find ways to cool prices off by limiting flipping and other measures because housing has become largely unaffordable to most in Vancouver?
              Its pretty meaningless unless the rules are changed to prevent non-citizens / non-permanent residents, from purchasing real estate. I also think the BC government makes too much money off the transfer taxes to ever seriously try and cool it down now. Its tough for Millennials, the theory that buying a house and it will go up, might work, but a lot of people can't even buy a very basic property there now. Well, not all Millennials, they are the boomer generations children after all, so many in Vancouver will inherit a multi-million dollar home that their parents got for peanuts.
              Last edited by moahunter; 12-05-2016, 07:59 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Abii View Post
                That's true, but it's possible to get ahead in Vancouver through property ownership. I lived in Edmonton for 2 years and off and on in Fort Mac for another year. Made good money, tons of savings etc... Moved back to Vancouver at the end of last year and threw it all on a down payment for a condo. In half a year I've double the money I invested in appreciation alone. Plus, the condo is rented out for over 2 grand a month and I'm making cash on that as well.

                A young couple will never make any money in appreciation in Edmonton. So yes, disposable income is nill in Vancouver and the culprit is obvious. But even though real estate is eating people's savings, in the medium and long-term people can cash out and be far better off. That's how I'm gonna play this. I'll probably move back to Alberta in 5 years. Or sell the condo downtown and buy something in Burnaby.

                But yes, disposable income is high in Edmonton and I enjoyed the carefree attitude I had when it came to spending money up there.
                Nice, but you haven't actually made any money until you've sold your condo and paid off your debts. If your debt is in the form of a mortgage then there's usually a penalty for paying it off early. Also subtract from your "profit" any closing costs and capital gains tax. A small market correction could quickly make your return far less than you hope it to be.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by OffWhyte View Post
                  Nice, but you haven't actually made any money until you've sold your condo and paid off your debts. If your debt is in the form of a mortgage then there's usually a penalty for paying it off early. Also subtract from your "profit" any closing costs and capital gains tax. A small market correction could quickly make your return far less than you hope it to be.
                  All of this also applies to Alberta, except there's next to no chance of appreciation for the next decade or so & a large chance of there being a market correction that puts many underwater.
                  Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I find it interesting that the initial article focuses on discretionary income when millenials buy a home. What we are seeing at increasing rates, especially in cities like Vancouver, is that millenials are less and less interested in home ownership.

                    They are foregoing the idea of buying a house in exchange for more freedom to move, and to live in areas that offer the amenities they want. Many millenials would rather live in a rented apartment right downtown in vancouver and have the option of packing everything up and leaving in a year if greener pastures arise elsewhere.

                    Of course this changes when people have children, but the other trend is that millenials are less and less interested in that as well.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Abii View Post
                      Yes, Edmonton living will provide a better cash flow, but the same condo that's eating up a person's monthly savings in Vancouver will be sold for a 200K profit in a 3-5 year period. It's not an ideal situation, but, again, the argument can't be made without looking at the other side of the coin.
                      This is assuming the Edmontonian's discretionary income is spent frivolously and isn't invested in other investment vehicles. Investing that amount without dealing with compounding interest of an astronomical mortgage - you will still be further ahead in Edmonton. So in the same 3-5 year the range you stated just by just stuffing that discretionary income under the mattress is $142,666-$237,780.

                      You're also forgetting the demographic of millennial that lives in Edmonton, has enough discretionary income to buy an investment property in other places as well, including in Vancouver. As an example you see tonnes of Alberta plates in Phoenix. Yet I think in 4 years of home ownership and spending time down there, I've seen only a handful of BC plates.

                      The luxury to be able to choose to invest/save it or blow further solidifies my opinion that Vancouver is just a pretty prison with weather that is marginal at best.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Edmonton is best place for Milenials to get ahead

                        That bubble will pop and the more insane it gets at the end, the worse the crash will be. When it does we will probably hear the cries of anguish all the way across the Rockies. Yes, Virginia house prices can go down just as quickly as they go up - especially if they are seriously over inflated.

                        They used to always call Vancouver la la land and now I understand why. People there are going la la la to drown out sound of the coming crash.

                        If you look at the last 25 years, housing prices have actually increased considerably in Edmonton and in most other places in Canada too. However, not the quick money speculative type of increase like in Vancouver and more recently Toronto.

                        Perhaps some will say this time will be different, that is also what they tend to say just before the crash, but I doubt it. History shows time and time again that things that go up too much will correct. Those that do not learn from or ignore history, will learn the hard way.

                        Originally posted by Abii View Post
                        That's true, but it's possible to get ahead in Vancouver through property ownership. I lived in Edmonton for 2 years and off and on in Fort Mac for another year. Made good money, tons of savings etc... Moved back to Vancouver at the end of last year and threw it all on a down payment for a condo. In half a year I've double the money I invested in appreciation alone. Plus, the condo is rented out for over 2 grand a month and I'm making cash on that as well.

                        A young couple will never make any money in appreciation in Edmonton. So yes, disposable income is nill in Vancouver and the culprit is obvious. But even though real estate is eating people's savings, in the medium and long-term people can cash out and be far better off. That's how I'm gonna play this. I'll probably move back to Alberta in 5 years. Or sell the condo downtown and buy something in Burnaby.

                        But yes, disposable income is high in Edmonton and I enjoyed the carefree attitude I had when it came to spending money up there.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Interesting and humorous discussion. Is this on simply buying property?
                          Live and love... your neighbourhood.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by OffWhyte View Post
                            Originally posted by Abii View Post
                            That's true, but it's possible to get ahead in Vancouver through property ownership. I lived in Edmonton for 2 years and off and on in Fort Mac for another year. Made good money, tons of savings etc... Moved back to Vancouver at the end of last year and threw it all on a down payment for a condo. In half a year I've double the money I invested in appreciation alone. Plus, the condo is rented out for over 2 grand a month and I'm making cash on that as well.

                            A young couple will never make any money in appreciation in Edmonton. So yes, disposable income is nill in Vancouver and the culprit is obvious. But even though real estate is eating people's savings, in the medium and long-term people can cash out and be far better off. That's how I'm gonna play this. I'll probably move back to Alberta in 5 years. Or sell the condo downtown and buy something in Burnaby.

                            But yes, disposable income is high in Edmonton and I enjoyed the carefree attitude I had when it came to spending money up there.
                            Nice, but you haven't actually made any money until you've sold your condo and paid off your debts. If your debt is in the form of a mortgage then there's usually a penalty for paying it off early. Also subtract from your "profit" any closing costs and capital gains tax. A small market correction could quickly make your return far less than you hope it to be.
                            There's no reason to pay it off early and pay a penalty. Closing costs are negligible and capital gains tax will not be paid because it will be my principal residence before I sell it. I don't know why you assumed any of these things

                            And why is real estate always going up in Vancouver? These are the reasons:

                            1) Lack of available land
                            2) Low interest rates
                            3) Steady population increase
                            4) A richer immigrant population compared to the rest of Canada, except Ontario (most of Vancouver's Asian immigrants are from China, Korea and Iran and they almost purely invest excess funds in real estate instead of the financial markets)
                            5) Lowest unemployment rate in Canada
                            6) Interest from foreign investors

                            Out of all these, nothing will change in the foreseeable future. Canada's economy isn't too hot, so interest rates will stay put. Vancouver is blocked on 3 sides. The economy will keep on improving as Vancouver continues to strengthen its tech and finance industry (construction will always be big). Migrants will keep flowing in. Investors will keep investing.

                            And say things slow down a little, so what? Last year detached homes went up 30+ percent!!! Anything from 5 to 30+ is the norm.

                            And let's look at downtown condos:

                            Last edited by Abii; 12-05-2016, 11:01 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Downtown View Post
                              Originally posted by Abii View Post
                              Yes, Edmonton living will provide a better cash flow, but the same condo that's eating up a person's monthly savings in Vancouver will be sold for a 200K profit in a 3-5 year period. It's not an ideal situation, but, again, the argument can't be made without looking at the other side of the coin.
                              This is assuming the Edmontonian's discretionary income is spent frivolously and isn't invested in other investment vehicles. Investing that amount without dealing with compounding interest of an astronomical mortgage - you will still be further ahead in Edmonton. So in the same 3-5 year the range you stated just by just stuffing that discretionary income under the mattress is $142,666-$237,780.
                              You're not making sense. What other investment vehicles? Mutual funds? Savings accounts giving 1% returns? A stock market that tanks every half an hour and grows a measly a few percentage points per year at best? A business that requires far more money than what the average person has?

                              Let's break this down. I had 45k and I spent it on a condo that pays for itself (2k+ rent). There's no compound interest coming out of my pocket. Someone else is paying all that (the tenant). In fact, only half of the monthly mortgage payment is going towards rent, the other half is going in my pocket in the form of equity. Now let's get to appreciation. Look at the chart in the above post. In half a year my 45k has more than doubled in appreciation alone. If it goes up 10% a year (conservative estimate), by the time I sell it in 5 years... well you do the math. As for capital gains taxes, they won't be paid. Primary residence will be that condo in the last year of ownership.

                              No other investment vehicle IN THIS COUNTRY will turn 45,000 into 250-350K in 5 years or less. And this is off of a condo! If I had 100k to invest, I would have bought a house and we'd be talking 700k+ in appreciation in the same time period (conservative est. btw).

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