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  • #16
    Wow. I was having this exact conversation recently.

    It is pretty well known that the third generation is pretty much the issue in any culture. The first generation came here with what they had most of the time, and know they have to work their behinds off. The second generation sees this work and often gives up their childhood to this work to help out the parents as they go to school. When the third generation is born, the second generation parents (and even the
    first gen
    gramps/grams) spoil them because they don't want them to suffer as they did.

    It is a bit of a generalization, and it sometimes happens that the third works as hard...but eventually you get the generation that does not know a time of hunger or fire in their belly.

    It is kind of like our world here in North America. For a long time, hard work was it. Then we get a group that knows the days without running water and indoor plumbing but eventually got those. Then you get the group that can recall pieces of this...but finally you get the group that is like today...they no nothing analog...nor anything manual like a clock. They don't know of a time where stores did not have fresh fruit and veggies, but we relied on frozen or canned. Fresh fruit was a seasonal treat. etc...

    This is why immigration should not be feared, but simply controlled. My wife's family is an amazing group of people, and to hear the stories of China just after the revolution is rather scary. I am so lucky I am Canadian...
    President and CEO - Airshow.

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    • #17
      Ron’s post starts with a clear economic undertone. Challenges Alberta energy sector and farmers have in getting our products to global markets. I have great sympathy for the pain many in the province currently experiencing.

      Unfortunately Ron then tries to link the problem to a non-related source. After a jab at Quebec and west coast, there is mentions of “sponges” in GTA and then refugees. As several posters have pointed out, immigration is a completely separate issue and not a factor here.

      I think, however, and I certainly can be wrong, but posting statistics or analysis of immigration and its relation to crime rates, culture, economic growth, tax etc, does not help the people who feel left behind. I think part of the reason is as individuals, we don’t live the life described by average statistics.

      Ron asked, what to do here?

      For you Ron, not giving in to the helplessness mentality is key. The country has not changed. It is me and you who are changing.

      For me: to hear Ron and try to play my little part to help,wherever I can (voting; educating myself with facts against disinformation; continue community participation; volunteering etc)

      For provincial leaders: providing supportive policies, efficient use of tax dollars, long term planning, avoiding the temptation to utilize disenfranchisement as a political tool, finding common grounds and building on the success of the federation as opposed to pretending we can live happily ever after if we erect walls around the province

      For federal leaders: trying to understand the pain in Alberta, finding creative solutions/tools to address the economic malaise in Prairies rather than shrugging off the inefficiency of equalization formula, avoid ideological policies and find the sweet spot of short term remedies and long term transition goals, genuine reaching out to people who didn’t vote for you
      Last edited by Snail; 28-11-2019, 09:28 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by RichardS View Post
        Wow. I was having this exact conversation recently.

        It is pretty well known that the third generation is pretty much the issue in any culture. The first generation came here with what they had most of the time, and know they have to work their behinds off. The second generation sees this work and often gives up their childhood to this work to help out the parents as they go to school. When the third generation is born, the second generation parents (and even the
        first gen
        gramps/grams) spoil them because they don't want them to suffer as they did.

        It is a bit of a generalization, and it sometimes happens that the third works as hard...but eventually you get the generation that does not know a time of hunger or fire in their belly.

        It is kind of like our world here in North America. For a long time, hard work was it. Then we get a group that knows the days without running water and indoor plumbing but eventually got those. Then you get the group that can recall pieces of this...but finally you get the group that is like today...they no nothing analog...nor anything manual like a clock. They don't know of a time where stores did not have fresh fruit and veggies, but we relied on frozen or canned. Fresh fruit was a seasonal treat. etc...

        This is why immigration should not be feared, but simply controlled. My wife's family is an amazing group of people, and to hear the stories of China just after the revolution is rather scary. I am so lucky I am Canadian...
        I think there's a major issue with this line of thinking, that it's an immigration issue, or generation issue, and not just a people issue. Every generation for eternity has complained about the generations coming after it being lazy, entitled etc. But you're taking that idea and not only applying it to the generation that comes after, but specifically a generation that has come from another culture or country. The reality of specifying it like that is that I think it comes from a place of looking more harshly at cultures that you don't see as "Canadian". I'm a third generation Canadian myself technically, but I guarantee if people saw me as lazy, entitled, and spoilt, they would never attribute it to where I come from because I'm white. There's no visual cue to make that connection, and I guarantee if someone heard of my European background they would not be saying "oh of course he's spoilt, he's third generation and that's what end's up happening", I'd still just be a lazy dude (If people were saying that about me, not really the point though). So when you're saying that that third generation is lazy, you're not only falling into the trap of framing subsequent generations as lazy (that every generation has done), you're making the additional implication that those from non-western countries and cultures are somehow more prone to that laziness which is pretty unfair to say the least.

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        • #19
          You often hear a very similar line of thought in terms of family business. The first generation starts the business by working their bags off, the second generation expand and continue the success because they didn't grow up rich and saw how hard their parent worked to start and build the business, and the third generation run it in to the ground because they grew up rich and spoiled once the business was successful or large. There's not the same concerns about "other-izing" in that context as what seamus laid out, so it's often not challenged, and statistics do show that very few family businesses make it to a third generation.

          I think there may be some kernels of truth to it, but in general I'm suspicious of simple explanations to complicated things. Owning/operating a business is hard, and even successful ones can come and go over the decades because of unique circumstances or economy/country wide downturns or upheavels. You don't need to paint a generation with the same wide brush to explain that.

          Third generation family business owner checking in *cough*. Second generation Canadian as well, at least on my mom's side. Which explains why we can't make any money these days?

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