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  • Civic incompetence

    Does this city to ANYthing right: https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/city-of-...lity-1.4442390 ?

    Oh well, what's $214m + cost of the original facility?

    But, as Scott McKeen, his hipster self assured me, council never gets bullied into anything by administration.

    Ya.
    ... gobsmacked

  • #2
    I remember so much gloating about how the facility is "world class" back when it opened. Even has its own Wikipedia page:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmont...sting_Facility

    Largest stainless steel building in North America. De-Lorean was stainless steel too, and its story didn't work out well either. Maybe they can make the next one out of Zinc to match the Library?
    Last edited by downtownone; 29-05-2019, 01:18 PM.

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    • #3
      i get that buildings - particularly those exposed to high levels of moisture and/or other contaminants - have limited life spans. is 17 years too limited? i don't know.

      if it cost 100 million originally and lasted 17 years that amortizes out at roughly 6 million per year on a straight line/no interest basis. should it have lasted twice as long? if that had increased the original cost by more than 215 million, this may still have represented the best choices. that's the missing piece of information from what has been disclosed so far.

      the failure here is probably less in the initial construction and construction pricing and design choiced than in the lack of maintenance since it was completed and not planning for it's replacement at the end of that 17 year design time-line. that's the real failure.

      and that's a failure we see way too much of regardless of where we look - buildings, roads, sewers, storm water ponds, fleets, sidewalks, plants...
      Last edited by kcantor; 29-05-2019, 01:27 PM.
      "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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      • #4
        Originally posted by downtownone View Post
        I remember so much gloating about how the facility is "world class" back when it opened. Even has its own Wikipedia page:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmont...sting_Facility

        Largest stainless steel building in North America. De-Lorean was stainless steel too, and its story didn't work out well either. Maybe they can make the next one out of Zinc to match the Library?
        i remember boasting about that same 60% on our way to 90% for a long time as well.

        in some respects it's not even the financial failure as much as having been lied to and effectively having lied to others as a result that annoys and frustrates me the most.
        "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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        • #5
          On the bright side, the City has begun completing the curbing and paving work that they started on the South side of 111th avenue at 142 and 149 streets last October. In the meantime, the right turn bays at those intersections have been closed and the crosswalks have been a nightmare for anyone not able bodied. Why the work was even started in late October when it had almost no chance of being completed prior to snow/freeze-up will remain a mystery to me and anyone else with even a shred of common sense.

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          • #6
            When the COE Administration lies, they lie BIG!
            Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
              On the bright side, the City has begun completing the curbing and paving work that they started on the South side of 111th avenue at 142 and 149 streets last October. In the meantime, the right turn bays at those intersections have been closed and the crosswalks have been a nightmare for anyone not able bodied. Why the work was even started in late October when it had almost no chance of being completed prior to snow/freeze-up will remain a mystery to me and anyone else with even a shred of common sense.
              now, now, marcel...

              i'm pretty sure the city has lots and lots and lots of common sense.

              what i would like is for some of that common sense to be traded for good sense.
              "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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              • #8
                I wonder if the blame should fall on Jan Reimer's penny pinching city council of the '90s. Jan Reimer's only "good" legacy wasn't good enough. How pathetic.
                Edmonton first, everything else second.

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                • #9
                  The Stainless steel building material is not to blame for this, my guess is they used another material to screw/weld it all together, and those screws and welds turned to crap.
                  Edmonton first, everything else second.

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                  • #10
                    WTF are all you guys on?

                    The city didn’t build it. TransAlta originally owned it. I don’t know who actually built it.

                    The City later bought it from them. I would guess that it was a private sector screw up.


                    Here, I found this:


                    Freedom of information request shows flawed repairs, design issues behind failing compost facility – Edmonton Journal

                    “Behlen Industries, the company that originally supplied the facility and designed the repair, also did an inspection and said the structure is OK, Ladouceur said. But the city chose to err on the side of caution. It is planning to shut the facility again this October, before the snow flies, and is working on plans to build a replacement.



                    City mum on legal options

                    Any option so far found for repairing the structure would cost roughly $25 million, more than the building is worth. Those options were presented to council’s utility committee last April, but council members went in private to discuss the history.

                    When asked if the city is considering legal action, Ladouceur said: “The legal opinion and our opinion on the cause was presented in private and will remain in private.”

                    Behlen officials could not be reached for comment Thursday.

                    When the compost facility was built in 2000 by TransAlta it was considered world class, the largest in North America. TransAlta sold it to the city in 2001. It’s a large, single-storey building measuring 117 metres wide, 200 metres long and about 12 metres high.

                    Repairs made things worse

                    According to ONEC research summarized for the city, problems first appeared in 2001 when the ceiling panels buckled on the west side of the building in the middle span, resulting in 45 metres of panels being replaced under warranty.

                    Eleven years later, officials noticed panels buckled on the east side of the building and Behlen designed a reinforcement system for the roof truss. In 2013, contractors installed that same reinforcement throughout the middle section.

                    In a memo dated Feb. 20, 2013, contractor Clark Builders told the city: “This will ensure that we will have no problems going forward.”

                    But that repair actually made things worse, the RND engineer concluded. Crews should have ...”

                    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...gineer-reports

                    So, yes it seems that the private sector built crap, and suckered the City into buying private sector garbage - a self composting composting facility.
                    Last edited by KC; 29-05-2019, 08:12 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by McBoo View Post
                      Does this city to ANYthing right: https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/city-of-...lity-1.4442390 ?

                      Oh well, what's $214m + cost of the original facility?

                      But, as Scott McKeen, his hipster self assured me, council never gets bullied into anything by administration.

                      Ya.
                      Rule #1: don’t trust the private sector builders to build quality.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kcantor View Post
                        i get that buildings - particularly those exposed to high levels of moisture and/or other contaminants - have limited life spans. is 17 years too limited? i don't know.

                        if it cost 100 million originally and lasted 17 years that amortizes out at roughly 6 million per year on a straight line/no interest basis. should it have lasted twice as long? if that had increased the original cost by more than 215 million, this may still have represented the best choices. that's the missing piece of information from what has been disclosed so far.

                        the failure here is probably less in the initial construction and construction pricing and design choiced than in the lack of maintenance since it was completed and not planning for it's replacement at the end of that 17 year design time-line. that's the real failure.

                        and that's a failure we see way too much of regardless of where we look - buildings, roads, sewers, storm water ponds, fleets, sidewalks, plants...
                        Again, my Rule #1

                        Rule #1: don’t trust the private sector builders to build quality.

                        It was crap from the start.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ThomasH View Post
                          I wonder if the blame should fall on Jan Reimer's penny pinching city council of the '90s. Jan Reimer's only "good" legacy wasn't good enough. How pathetic.

                          Reimer was long gone. Decore may have been tighter with the dollars. Bill Smith?

                          Seems pretty pathetic to try to tie a mayor kicked out of office years before for poor private sector construction and shoddy warranty and repair work by private sector companies. “How pathetic.”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by McBoo View Post
                            Does this city to ANYthing right: https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/city-of-...lity-1.4442390 ?

                            Oh well, what's $214m + cost of the original facility?

                            But, as Scott McKeen, his hipster self assured me, council never gets bullied into anything by administration.

                            Ya.
                            “Does this city to ANYthing right: ”

                            Do you?

                            Plus your subject line is pretty much BS. The City screwed up in buying this asset from TransAlta. They screwed up in their inspection of the structure, and in not suing the heck out of the seller and the builder. That level of incompetence is very common.

                            People have been duped into thinking that the private sector can do no wrong and all work should be contracted out to the private sector. That dogma continuously bites the administration in the *** but they persist in believing the nonsense.
                            Last edited by KC; 29-05-2019, 08:41 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              @KC,

                              Can you define when public sector builders built better quality than the private sector? When can I trust "them" more?
                              My hope is that you can finally get rid of the anger in your heart, and fill it with peace, compassion, understanding, and a desire to uplift rather than suppress.

                              After all, we are all together on this home, this pale blue dot, the "only home we've ever known.”

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