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Thanks Trans-Alta & the Conservative Gov't

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  • #16
    TransAlta won't do this again now.
    And here's the problem. Why Wouldn't they? Sounds like they got a pretty good deal to me. Perhaps next time it will "just" be a 25% fine but as long as your profitting...
    Time spent in the Rockies is never deducted from the rest of your life

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    • #17
      How do you know this? Because the industrial power consumers association said so?

      The MSA would have had actual, real access to actual, real consumption data, intertie usage and prices and would have used that data to arrive at a credible estimate of the deemed economic benefit to Trans-Alta.

      Now if it's all a giant conspiracy to screw you, me and everyone else out of money, well then, that's entirely different!
      ... gobsmacked

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      • #18
        Having worked for one of the electricity generators, I can tell you that the fine didn't hurt transalta. All the generators made a lot more than 250$K off the market that day. The markets were pretty stable last year, until November. I remember very very clearly last november when we were told that not only was there several generators offline for scheduled maintaince, but the tieline between AB/BC was down as well.

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        • #19
          Reading some of the comments made here makes me wonder how many of you just moved into Alberta or fell of of a turnup truck. YES we have had numerous brown outs and the threat of rolling brown outs when we had loser klein. Yes there were too many power plants off for scheduled maintenance and then there were problems with the plants which were supplying the power. During the years when pocklington, ron southern, mccaigs, marlin and the likes got direct access to our taxpayer treasury monies there was alot of crap going on with the CONS and alberta businesses. Including klein freezing insurance rates, when they were the most expensive in Canada....geez what a dope, but he fooled us all eh? Anyway one example of this was when Southern was allowed to play monopoly and get control of most of our utility companies using our taxpayer money, (including getting spruce meadows basically for free.....it was the only equestrian facility in Canada which was funded through a provincial budget in the lougheed days), anyway, Southern was able to buy Canadian Western Gas Co. in Calgary, which owned gas fields around Medicine Hat.....CWNG had storage capacity so when the price of gas went up sharply they would use some of this cheaper reserve gas to soften our gas prices at that time which was usually during our cold months. But when Southern took CWNG he spun these gas fields into a subsidairy company which sold the gas to ATCO Gas.....history and facts have shown ATCO Gas alway bought from this subsidiary at the highest prices. So southern made profit from both companies, which has gone on for years and our CONS just let this so called legalized theft continue. Where are our investigative reporting media when u need them? I could go on and on about the crap these CONS have participated in or ignored such as Principal group bankruptcy, Abicas City fraud, Multicorp insider trading by klein and rod love and whomever else, Novatel fiasco (did they ever find who was hiding that fancy motorhome Novatel owned, but disappeared?), elzinga claiming all his living expenses in edmonton such as a condo, travelling expenses, meals etc. just like MLAs from Calgary, and he lived in Sherwood Park!!! on and on it goes with this corrupt CONS government.....faces may change but the crap continues, at us taxpayer expense of course. Do not forget about how the landowners along the power right of ways were intimidated and smeared by the bullies the CONS hired.....whoops, no this was done by an appointed board/dept. therefore the CONS do not smell quite as bad. Oh ya when Direct Energy was allowed to take over the billing, selling contracts etc in Alberta............they had been convicted numbeous times in the States along with numberous cases before the Courts but the klien/love tagteam told us Albertans they would keep an eye on Direct Energy....what a joke....oh ya we had to pay I think it was $20 each so Direct Energy could set up shop here....more legalized theft allowed by these CONS.....on it contiues.
          Last edited by whynow99; 08-11-2011, 07:31 PM.
          Time will tell on this new Alberta Government.

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          • #20
            All I can say is that is awesome wall 0 text. And I agree with most of it - but I still don't remember the brown-outs.
            Time spent in the Rockies is never deducted from the rest of your life

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            • #21
              One-off occurrence my *ss! If this had happened in the US, and it has, people would be going to jail, Look up Enron and California deregulation; a text book case! Enron collapsed, a governor was turfed and Ken Lay, convicted of several criminal offences, would have gone to jail had he not had a heart attack and died.
              As noted by whynow99, corruption is pervasive in the incestuous Alberta business and political realm and no-one should be surprised that this happened or that Transalta recieved a mere slap on the wrist.

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              • #22
                Can't wait until January when the bill comes in for December's electricity usage. Like I've said before, you can thank the government for catering to these jerk-offs
                that are gouging us and for the power companies keeping prices artificially high.

                But I'm sure we have some sheeple here that believe everything the government tells them. Remember folks - deregulation was supposed to be the consumer's friend.

                Alberta’s electricity market squeezing consumers, insider says

                Calls for reforms to protect public from price spikes


                CALGARY — Residential power consumers choosing the default electricity rate are being squeezed by unbalanced market moves, according to an Alberta insider.
                News that a major power plant outage will last longer than expected could increase the pain as forward prices jump in response.

                An electricity rule which allows power players in Alberta to hold back blocks of electricity and drive prices up might be manageable for large industrial and commercial users, but not so for residential consumers, Sheldon Fulton, with the Industrial Power Consumers Association of Alberta, said Wednesday.

                “One of the two has to go; we either have to change economic withholding within the Market Surveillance Administrator or we have to change the regulated rate option,” Fulton said at an Insight conference on Alberta power

                Fulton is a staunch believer in allowing the market to dictate prices, but says residential consumers need more options offered to them.

                Since players have been allowed to hold back power, price peaks and valleys have occurred over much shorter time spans, sometimes going from $75 per megawatt-hour to $1,000 and back in less than an hour.

                But unlike industry, utilities in Alberta can’t buy long-term contracts to shelter regulated rate consumers against price spikes as they are restricted to a 45-day limit.

                The rational behind the withholding rule was to allow generators to boost prices in what had been a $40 to $50 per megawatt-hour market, prices considered too low to justify building a new power plant.

                As Alberta has the highest demand growth for electricity in Canada — and does not have a Crown utility — the need for new supply weighed on the market administrator’s decision.

                The unintended consequence is that 72 per cent of Albertans choosing the default option have no choice but to pay for those hourly price swings.
                “They are stuck. They have to pay the higher price for the increased volatility,” Fulton said.

                Residential consumption represents only about 13.5 per cent of Alberta’s power demand, but on a numbers basis it is large “and they vote,” said Robert Spragins, the new head of Alberta’s Utilities Consumer Advocate.

                The UCA received 45,000 calls last year from Albertans concerned about their retail contracts, billing and customer service.

                “I can only at the moment go by the kind of calls we get at our call centre,” Spragins said at the conference sidelines, “There is a concern, particularly about prices and volatility and whether the market is fair.”

                Consumers were hit with a 48 per cent increase in the default rate for December, the highest rate in Alberta’s history.

                January could see another rate hike after TransAlta Corp. announced late Wednesday that its Genesee 3 power plant will be off-line until the beginning of January, rather than mid-December, to replace damaged turbine/generator bearings.

                Approximately 1,042 megawatts of power are out of service in TransAlta’s Alberta fleet of coal-fired generation, almost a 10th of the province’s total power.
                [email protected]




                http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...520/story.html
                Time spent in the Rockies is never deducted from the rest of your life

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Edmonton Journal
                  The rational behind the withholding rule was to allow generators to boost prices in what had been a $40 to $50 per megawatt-hour market, prices considered too low to justify building a new power plant.
                  And this is bad how? The market was doing what it was supposed to do, delivering power to the consumer at the lowest price possible. Those prices would have risen on their own if and when Alberta's baseload capacity started to run short. Instead, the government responded to industry whining about lack of profits by changing the rules to allow them to manipulate the market in their favor. This rule change needs to be reversed.

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                  • #24
                    We're getting bent over the barrel here. Good thing I'm going away for half of December. I'll be spending my money in Mexico.
                    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Titanium48 View Post
                      Originally posted by Edmonton Journal
                      The rational behind the withholding rule was to allow generators to boost prices in what had been a $40 to $50 per megawatt-hour market, prices considered too low to justify building a new power plant.
                      And this is bad how? The market was doing what it was supposed to do, delivering power to the consumer at the lowest price possible. Those prices would have risen on their own if and when Alberta's baseload capacity started to run short. Instead, the government responded to industry whining about lack of profits by changing the rules to allow them to manipulate the market in their favor. This rule change needs to be reversed.

                      Prices wold not have risen as long as importing power was an option. Someone else would have built power plants outside of Alberta and sold to us to fill our demand. Power is not a consumer good, its more like potable water or air ( still free for nowm except for the taxes )

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                      • #26
                        ^ Again, that is bad how? I have no problem buying BC or NWT hydropower if it is cheaper than Alberta coal power. There is a limit to imports though, and prices will rise when that limit is reached. If prices rise frequently (indicating a real shortage), new powerplants will be built. The only thing we might want to do is try to work with generating companies on pre-approving projects, so that shovels can hit the ground the day after a project is funded and the lag between shortage-driven price increases and new generating capacity coming online is minimized.

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                        • #27
                          "Again, that is bad how? I have no problem buying BC or NWT hydropower if it is cheaper than Alberta coal power. There is a limit to imports though, and prices will rise when that limit is reached"

                          Sorry if I was not clear, my point was the exporteers would see a lucrative market here and bump up production there, in BC,NWT or the US, so the limit to imports would be so high that AB would not need to build new generation for a much longer time.

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                          • #28
                            I haven't recieved Decembers bill yet which is supposed to be 13.3 cents kw/h. Not looking forward at all. But that's not all as January's new rate now is 15.1 cents kw/h.

                            Thanks Trans-Alta for screwing us and thank you conservatives for standing idly by. They're getting away with this and it's all planned out... if Natural Gas wasn't as cheap as it is I guarentee they wouldn't be manipulating prices like they are. It's all about perfect timing.
                            Time spent in the Rockies is never deducted from the rest of your life

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                            • #29
                              Why haven't you switched your service to Enmax, where you can lock in at 8 cents/kWh?
                              They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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                              • #30
                                ^that requires personal responsibility, a conservative trait, its much easier to blame others.

                                While people are whining its worth considering for example, the mess in Ontario where the ill thought out green power generation requirements (where any little Mickey Mouse inefficient generator can sell at a premium), are pushing prices through the roof.

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