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  • Now that said, I imagine theres hundreds of poor drivers that managed to get into a collision this Am apparently forgetting that Edmonton is a winter city and we occasionally have white stuff on road ways.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    • Originally posted by Replacement View Post
      Originally posted by OffWhyte View Post
      Today seems like an ideal day for calcium chloride. Has anyone seen any?
      Why would it be required. It is not nearly cold enough for the snow to represent a problem on any road surfaces. Its mostly melting on contact on roads and with the temp now just above zero its melting period. Using it would be overkill. Ideally its use is in -10-20 kinds of conditions.


      Freezing prevention isn't really that much required today.

      Anybody having trouble with traction or road conditions today should probably just sell or park their vehicle for the entire winter.


      If they used chloride in these wet conditions its only going to result in vehicle rusting, massive runoff into river, etc. Worst usage would be at these melt temps.
      Do you even live in the same city as the rest of us?

      Many main roads had a layer of ice on them even at 2 pm this afternoon. Fox Drive has been closed because it's impassable.

      https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...s-to-the-south

      Comment


      • ^Some routes should be avoided. Due to microclimate river valley effects I've found that Whitemud near river, Quesnel bridge, and fox drive can be notoriously different than almost anywhere else. Fox Drive also being the worst because its hidden from any sunlight. But mostly these are effects of the river valley having a different climate, and being somewhat colder and moister.


        Do you not ever alter routes or anticipate some routes being the worst in the whole city?


        Whitemud south was fine all day, Millwoods driving fine all day.


        But in this temperature with wet snow conditions people should ALWAYS be more careful around river valley roads, bridges and conditions. I would think any driver here would know this. I would simply avoid those routes.
        Last edited by Replacement; 02-11-2018, 02:20 PM.
        "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Replacement View Post
          Now that said, I imagine there's hundreds of poor drivers that managed to get into a collision this Am apparently forgetting that Edmonton is a winter city and we occasionally have white stuff on road ways.
          THIS is the key to why there are so many problems. BAD skill sets or lack therof,and lack of proper training in winter driving. I doubt salt,calcium chloride sand or any other remediation would prevent pi$$ poor drivers from getting into this...
          Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

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          • Putting down salt, chloride or sand an hour BEFORE the snow falls can be a huge benefit to get out ahead of conditions and prevent a base layer of ice. Throwing the same on top 50mm of snow turns it into oatmeal and may not get down to the ice before the sand and snow gets plowed to the curb. This is why I am against the 50mm wait before blading policy. In many other cities the sand and salt trucks are circulating before the storm starts and hit hard and fast as the first flakes fly.
            Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
              Putting down salt, chloride or sand an hour BEFORE the snow falls can be a huge benefit to get out ahead of conditions and prevent a base layer of ice. Throwing the same on top 50mm of snow turns it into oatmeal and may not get down to the ice before the sand and snow gets plowed to the curb. This is why I am against the 50mm wait before blading policy. In many other cities the sand and salt trucks are circulating before the storm starts and hit hard and fast as the first flakes fly.
              Have you forgotten of which city you speak? LOLOL This is good common sense. Thus it will NEVER be utilized by the city.
              Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

              Comment


              • Right. Common sense; the rarest element known to mankind.

                Here the COE admits that they could have done better. Chosen not to act makes them responsible for at least some of the extreme conditions and any attempt to prevent the base ice buildup. Confirms my previous post.
                https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...nton-1.4888970
                Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 03-11-2018, 06:17 AM.
                Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

                Comment


                • ^\yeah I dunno. From a lot of reports and even that article the issue was more people not slowing down. "People whizzing by."

                  In anycase, and this isn't new, the first major snow freeze of the year is usually a unique road event and it was raining before the snow and DURING the night with the coldest possible daily temps. More of a perfect storm of weather **** than something I would be blaming the city for. It happens. More and more with climactic conditions we're getting these ****** weather events. But heres the thing. Did ANYBODY in the city stay home, take a snow day. does everybody have to be going to school, shopping, working, out on the road on these rare freak weather days?

                  Anybody that's lived here any length of time knows the first winter blast driving event in this city is always a gong show with hundreds of collisions. ALWAYS. Because a lot of drivers out there have the winter driving memory of goldfish.

                  Just because the city has greater arsenal of proactive applicants and procedures, doesn't imo make them responsible. They made a judgement call, at the air temps I too was surprised that there was any ice buildup. Normally there would be more snow melting on contact at these conditions. But because it snowed all night over night it was harder to see what it was going to be like. For sure the morning drive would be dicey but who would have thought the afternoon drive would have been difficult with temps above zero. All the sidewalks were fine, no prob walking anywhere, and no ice. Its all the vehicle weight and packing the snow in that creates the ice buildup. So in essence drivers creating these road conditions themselves. you could walk anywhere yesterday, it was just wet and sticky snow.
                  "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

                  Comment


                  • ^
                    living in riverdale and working downtown, a snow day wasn’t necessary for me but i have an employee who lives in windermere who was told to take one and did.
                    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

                    Comment


                    • I am going on a snow shoveling mission for Downtown. I was extremely disappointed in how little was done by yesterday afternoon.


                      Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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                      • This was also not a surprise snowfall: it was forecast days in advance.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Medwards View Post
                          The city reported that they chose not to spread the deicer before the snow for various reasons
                          I'd love to hear them, because it seemed like a textbook day for it last Friday. Most major arterials I saw had packed snow and ice on them, and traction was very poor. And I'm a quite capable driver with AWD and winter tires. I didn't have much of any difficulty, but many did. The roads melted/cleared over the weekend, sure, but the morning and afternoon commutes on Friday were pretty miserable from what I saw and the collision numbers clearly bear that out.

                          Comment


                          • It was something about it raining first... I gave the tv a sideways glance at that point....

                            https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...nton-1.4888970

                            Andrew Grant, general supervisor of infrastructure field operations with the City of Edmonton, said more than 70 trucks and other pieces of equipment are being used to clear "very wet and icy, heavy snow" from roadways.More than 150 labourers are working to clear snow from sidewalks and stairs, he said.
                            Brine will be used to de-ice roads. But Grant said city crews chose not to use brine on wet roads overnight as an anti-icing agent.
                            He said sand is not being used.
                            "We'll be back down to bare pavement hopefully in the near future and sand wouldn't provide much traction on bare pavement."
                            A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Medwards View Post
                              It was something about it raining first... I gave the tv a sideways glance at that point....

                              https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...nton-1.4888970

                              Andrew Grant, general supervisor of infrastructure field operations with the City of Edmonton, said more than 70 trucks and other pieces of equipment are being used to clear "very wet and icy, heavy snow" from roadways.More than 150 labourers are working to clear snow from sidewalks and stairs, he said.
                              Brine will be used to de-ice roads. But Grant said city crews chose not to use brine on wet roads overnight as an anti-icing agent.
                              He said sand is not being used.
                              "We'll be back down to bare pavement hopefully in the near future and sand wouldn't provide much traction on bare pavement."

                              Emphasis added in bold.

                              I guess "Hope" is a new Standard Operating Procedure for the COE. As is, "Eventually" as in Spring will arrive very soon 'so why don't drivers stay home until this white stuff melts in May???'


                              When Environment Canada sends this out:

                              Environment Canada expects the freezing rain to develop early Friday morning in the Rocky Mountain House and Red Deer areas and move eastward through the day. The freezing rain should end by this afternoon.
                              Does the COE not realize that the freezing rain was coming Edmonton's way?
                              Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 05-11-2018, 11:36 AM.
                              Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

                              Comment


                              • No expert, but it was kind of a rare event where the initial rain was formed to ice and then insulated by the snow pack which then packed down and created icy conditions. Conversely sidewalks were NOT icy at all. In effect the act of traffic and nobody staying home resulted in the same conditions people are complaining about.

                                Normally this trace amount of ice and snow would be melted easily by the fairly warm temps. But the traffic quickly compressing it made it more immune to warmer air temps than would normally be the case. Its extremely rare that we get really bad patches like this with snow accumulation falling around freezing point. Normally that stuff would melt as traffic heats it up a bit.
                                "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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