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Air Passenger Leakage 101 - Why Edmontonians should care!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by RTA View Post
    It's like you didn't even read the column.
    I did read the column RTA. A marketing director is blaming customers for failing to be as good an airport as Calgary. When I drive to Nisku, I have the choice to get out, or stay in the car for another couple of hours to Calgary. My choice will depend on what I am offered at Calgary versus Nisku, not based on whether I want Calgary or Nisku to succeed. Any business that blames its customers for not choosing it, instead of understanding they are always right, needs to pull its head out of the sand and start listening not preaching.
    Last edited by moahunter; 14-10-2009, 08:26 AM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by moahunter View Post
      Originally posted by RTA View Post
      It's like you didn't even read the column.
      I did read the column RTA. A marketing director is blaming customers for failing to be as good an airport as Calgary. Any business that blames its customers, instead of understanding they are always right, needs to pull its head out of the sand and start listening not preaching.
      The marketing director is with EIA. The flights are decided by the airlines, not EIA. The marketing director is trying to enlist the help of passengers in building a business case for enticing more flights from the airlines. Its not that difficult a concept...

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      • #33
        Originally posted by TheGreatestX View Post
        So you are telling people a "non-preferred routing" to Orlando would be on WestJet via Calgary?

        Let me get this straight....

        If every single person in Edmonton planning on going to Orlando flew via Houston instead of Calgary, how would that get us better flights?

        WestJet would look at those numbers and say "hey there isn't a single person flying to Orlando from Edmonton, why should we give them a non-stop flight?"

        OR if we flew via Calgary...

        "Hey there's a sizeable amount of Edmontonians flying to Orlando via Calgary, that looks like it could be a sustainable non-stop route" a la Palm Springs, Phoenix, Las Vegas and Los Angeles - all of which were originally via YYC only.
        If everyone flew to Orlando via Houston instead of Calgary, the numbers to the US would go up, telling the airlines that there is a market in Edmonton for direct flight to the US. If everyone from Alberta flew out of Calgary, that would be the end of it... The airlines would definitely prefer to have one hub out of Alberta instead of two. Cost savings for the airlines, but definitely not in Edmonton's best interests...

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        • #34
          I know that if I choose Walmart it will make more money and provide more service accordingly. But I don't buy there for that reason. I buy at Walmart because it provides the service I desire at the price I desire. Same with an airport, if YEG or Calgary gets more customers, or course it will become a better airport. Everyone knows that. Still, both are valid choices to me, I'm not going to pick one over the other because I feel "sorry" for YEG's lack of connections.

          A sales or marketing person can elist my support as a customer by listening to why I choose Calgary sometimes, and providing something that can compete. I'm not going to change for corporate charity though, and to suggest Edmontonians on mass should simply because Calgary airport is becoming too good of a hub for YEG to compete with it, is frankly, IMO, a bit anti-Calgary / anti Albertan, and a bit weak.
          Last edited by moahunter; 14-10-2009, 08:48 AM. Reason: nothing to do with 2 hours closer.

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          • #35
            moahunter...

            ...you're comparing launching a new jar of mayo or cheaper made-in-china particle board desk sets with the multi-million dollar, bureaucratic nightmare, ultra expensive capital investment that is a new route?

            ...retail is not airline marketing...that is the paradigm that needs to break...


            ...if anything is weak here, it is the belief that we are not in competition in this province for the same investment dollar...unless your paradigm is that Edmonton is a bedroom community of Calgary, or vice versa...for all this warm, fuzzy co-operation talk that goes on here, I don't see that coming from our brothers and sisters south...unless of course you count co-operation as one gets the food...the other table scraps...

            ...that said...if there was finally a move by the entire province to compete as a province...but I don't hold out hope...out regional set up and the misplaced jingoism there tells me this is the impossible dream..
            President and CEO - Airshow.

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            • #36
              ^As an Albertan, seeing both our airports do well is beneficial. As a customer of Caglary, seeing Calgary get more connections, like direct flights to Asia, will benefit me personally. Should I stop using YEG to promote that? Of course not. I hope the new airline routes do well, but I won't choose them just because its good for YEG, I'll do it if they offer the right service at the right price.

              Marketing is marketing. A business will do much better by listening to why customers are not choosing it or its flights, rather than whining in public about the impact of those choices on it.
              Last edited by moahunter; 14-10-2009, 08:57 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by moahunter View Post
                I know that if I choose Walmart it will make more money and provide more service accordingly. But I don't buy there for that reason. I buy at Walmart because it provides the service I desire at the price I desire. Same with an airport, if YEG or Calgary gets more customers, or course it will become a better airport. Everyone knows that. Still, both are valid choices to me, I'm not going to pick one over the other because I feel "sorry" for YEG's lack of connections.
                Airports don't work like Wal-Marts. Wal-Mart choses the products it puts on the shelves. Conversely, airlines choose which airports to serve. No one expects you to feel sorry for YEG, but if you want YEG to get better connections, you need to support it. Give YEG the numbers it needs to present to the airlines to get you that better service.

                Originally posted by moahunter View Post
                A sales or marketing person can elist my support as a customer by listening to why I choose Calgary sometimes, and providing something that can compete. I'm not going to change for corporate charity though, and to suggest Edmontonians on mass should simply because Calgary airport is becoming too good of a hub for YEG to compete with it, is frankly, IMO, a bit anti-Calgary / anti Albertan, and a bit weak.
                Why isn't it just being pro-Edmonton?
                Strathcona City Separatist

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                • #38
                  EIA is just the real estate agent. the airlines are the sellers and we're the buyers.

                  the real estate agent can go on and on about how it's a great time to buy and or sell.

                  as a buyer, you can choose to drive out to the suburbs (YYC) or you can choose to get a place in a older, up and coming neighbourhood closer to town (YEG). more people that go to YYC, the more suburbs and commuting. companies will offer what people want. building in the new suburbs is easier after all. cheaper for them.

                  the more people that choose to buy closer to town (YEG), the more demand you create, the more great infill projects spring up. self fulfilling prophecy.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by moahunter View Post
                    ^As an Albertan, seeing both our airports do well is beneficial. (...).
                    ...let's extend this further...and touch why I found a trend disturbing on the Asia thread...

                    ...so...as a Western Canadian...allegedly wanting the eastern children born out of wedlock to freeze in the dark...shouldn't I therefore want Vancouver to do well...aqnd thereby should support the Asia routes from there?

                    ...in this Canadian world...and as a proud Canadian worried about Canada's place in the world, should I therefore support only Pearson flights...and additionally supporting my alleged "flag carrier" of Air Canada above all else? ...to keep AC strong...and YYZ strong...thereby CANADA strong...and also to keep Calgary strong, I should be OK with YEG-YYC-YYZ-YUL (gotta keep national unity intact) EWR?

                    Where does "patriotism" end and the reality enter...we do compete with YYC...please understand the airlines make the decisions...

                    ...until such time as the pink warm fuzzy happy sing along kumbaya bunnies convince others in this province that this should be the same...we...compete....period.
                    President and CEO - Airshow.

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                    • #40
                      Edmontonians referring to YEG as the Nisku airport tells me that this city has a long way to go.
                      “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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                      • #41
                        ^^I won't choose one service provider over another, because of "nationalist" or "patriotic" reason, and won't be made to feel guilty about it. I am a citizen of the entire world, and a citizen of Alberta, and a citizen of Edmonton. To the extent my choices benefit any one of those three, it is beneficial to society. I want a strong Calgary airport. It will be useful to me (and all or Alberta) just as a strong airport in Nisku is useful. YEG can be a strong airport, if they start listening to customers, instead of preaching.
                        Last edited by moahunter; 14-10-2009, 09:05 AM.

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                        • #42
                          ^ In what way do you feel EIA isn't listening to customers? Keeping in mind that we've already explained to you that the airlines chose the airports, not vice-versa.
                          Strathcona City Separatist

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                          • #43
                            Comments like this, which imply that is my fault, and the fault of other Edmontonians who drive, that service is better at Calgary:

                            Again while the trend is good we still have a lot of potential. We currently have between 750,000 to 850,000 Edmontonians per year making the drive to Calgary…this number could support the equivalent of approximately seven daily B767 flights from Edmonton. The lost economic opportunity for the citizens and businesses of Edmonton is huge and we are essentially giving away our non-stop air service seats to Calgary!
                            Why are people staying the car two hours longer? Because they are disloyal? No. Perhaps instead it is because YEG is not listening and providing to their needs, as well as the big bad "Calgary!" is? Or maybe simply, that YEG can't provide everything for everyone in Alberta? Maybe a Calgary hub works better for all of Alberta? Perhaps we will get more flight options with that concentration? It doesn't matter, what does matter, is YEG has to consider why airlines are not choosing it and try to change that or work within it, not blame outside forces, including its customers.
                            Last edited by moahunter; 14-10-2009, 09:25 AM.

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                            • #44
                              ^ You totally didn't answer my question at all, but you did repeat the same statement that they're somehow not listening. Not listening to who? To what?

                              In a way, they're not wrong. By continuing to bypass our airport in favour of Calgary's, you are voting to give Calgary more flights at the expense of Edmonton. The fact that you're proud of this fact makes it worse.
                              Strathcona City Separatist

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by moahunter View Post
                                (...) YEG can be a strong airport, if they start listening to customers, instead of preaching.
                                ...here is where I believe you have it wrong...

                                Where do you get the idea that the ERAA is NOT listening?
                                President and CEO - Airshow.

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