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Gondolas across the River Valley as part of the LRT System

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  • I don't think the Edmonton Gondola concept/story will ever go away anytime soon.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    • Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
      Yes. Most importantly the financial risk is all on them. If they go bankrupt, the gondola can be bought by another company or the COE. Otherwise it could be dismantled and sold. Very little impact or risk.

      I think it all depends on a good fare structure, possibly allowing ETS transfers and fares.
      I don't think its that dependent on fare structure at all. People will pay differential amounts of $ just for the view, to ride it, bring the kids on and do that. So theres that segment, theres a tourist segment, and theres a commuter segment. They could probably even do different pricing levels for different demand or peak times of day and/or offer passes just like any other form of transportation. I certainly would have no expectation that this should be ETS transferable. You generally expect to pay something for such convenience. I don't see how it makes any sense for a private operator to do any favors on ETS transfers.

      Sure would be some revenue streams though aside from fare. Advertising on the cars, inside the cars, sponsorship potentials. Maybe even have pubs and places sponsor for Friday/Saturday promotional pub fares to and from DT to Whyte. Kind of a pub crawl except a bit more exciting. The operators may want to get on ground level with some places like Joeys, or chain places that do ample business in different areas of the city and see if they are interested in coming on board, excuse pun. This would draw even more people to Whyte Avenue, and to the DT. This should have DT and Old Strathcona backing.

      If they built something like this I don't think it could fail. It would be a much loved thing to do in Edmonton as well as being a fantastic commuter option and entertainment option (going to) for so many people.
      Last edited by Replacement; 09-06-2018, 07:20 PM.
      "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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      • ETS fares are 55% subsidized by the taxpayer. There are other cities such as Atlanta that have both private and public bus fleets that share fare revenue and get a shard of tax payer subsidies based upon ridership counts.

        I see no problem if a person used their ETS bus pass to board a gondola and the private company gets a credit for every fare. This is an avoided cost for the city. The key is an agreed formula as a contracted service. If the ticket purchased is only for the gondola, they get to keep the full fare and maybe a small subsidy. If they accept an ETS transfer or pass, they get an agreed rate. The trick is a balanced formula that both sides can agree to up front before they construct a single pylon.
        Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 09-06-2018, 07:38 PM.
        Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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        • Good pointsbsbout the flexibility to offer different rate packages.

          I’d guess that commuters would be a prime focus to provide a stable predictable cash flow to cover financing costs. Lacking an ETS owner would hurt demand without a seemless process. Having to buy a second season pass would kill a lot of interest.

          Maybe shoppers and the lunch and bar crowds could be counted on at some base demand level. Most other sources of ridership would be volatile, unpredictable, seasonal, fickle, you name it. Special events, festivals, game night, and other demand could present staffing and timing issues.
          Last edited by KC; 09-06-2018, 07:42 PM.

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          • Originally posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
            ETS fares are 55% subsidized by the taxpayer. There are other cities such as Atlanta that have both private and public bus fleets that share fare revenue and get a shard of tax payer subsidies based upon ridership counts.

            I see no problem if a person used their ETS bus pass to board a gondola and the private company gets a credit for every fare. This is an avoided cost for the city. The key is an agreed formula as a contracted service. If the ticket purchased is only for the gondola, they get to keep the full fare and maybe a small subsidy. If they accept an ETS transfer or pass, they get an agreed rate. The trick is a balanced formula that both sides can agree to up front before they construct a single pylon.
            Ahh, gotcha. I would be on board (again) heh, with a kick back credit for every fare but can't see the COE going for that. They seem pretty intent on not helping this. Its a good idea though and the avoided cost for the city is an interesting argument.
            "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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            • ETS knows the costs per passenger per kilometer. They have it on their website. When the transportation department wanted ETS to make a major detour for months while rebuilding the Whitemud Bridge, ETS demanded an interdepartment budget adjustment for the calculated extra expenses. The Transportation Department decided it was cheaper to make a shortcut from Fox Drive to avoid the extra costs.

              The COE has plenty of bean counters that know the metrics.
              Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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              • Tyranny of small decisions - Wikipedia
                Excerpt:

                “The event that first suggested the tyranny of small decisions to Kahn was the withdrawal of passenger railway services in Ithaca, New York. The railway was the only reliable way to get in and out of Ithaca. It provided services regardless of conditions, in fair weather and foul, during peak seasons and off-peak seasons. The local airline and bus company skimmed the traffic when conditions were favourable, leaving the trains to fill in when conditions were difficult. The railway service was eventually withdrawn, because the collective individual decisions made by travellers did not provide the railway with the revenue it needed to cover its incremental costs. According to Kahn, this suggests a hypothetical economic test of whether the service should have been withdrawn.
                ...”

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrann...mall_decisions

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                • What Munich's Gondola Proposal Gets Right - CityLab

                  Excerpt

                  “In Munich, the future of public transit might be up in the air. This month, the city is discussing a plan to create a new 4.5-kilometer gondola link in the northern part of the city, linking two districts on the internal beltway that are currently poorly connected for everyone except drivers.

                  Supported by the mayor, the regional transit minister, and even the opposition parties in the city’s assembly, it’s a plan that has a strong likelihood of being built.

                  It’s still perhaps a little unexpected: Munich is a flat city with a good public transit network. ...”



                  https://www.citylab.com/transportati...ramway/565493/

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                  • The Albany gondola project:

                    Collaboration key for making Capital Region gondola a reality

                    “...
                    “We want to be very mindful, not about what it’s going to look like at opening … but what it’s going to look like five and 10 years down the road when hopefully we see some development here at and around the station,” he said to Rensselaer officials Monday. “What we’ve seen in other parts of the world with these urban gondolas is pretty significant induced demand – it’s the ‘if you build it they will come’ kind of thing.”

                    Madison said 80 percent of the funding has already been secured through private investors, and they’ve applied for state grants to pay for the rest.

                    If fully funded, the first gondola would cross the river between Rensselaer and Albany sometime in early 2020, "making the Capital Region a national leader in this rapidly emerging urban access technology,” according to the project’s application to the Planning Commission.

                    Planning commissioner Raymond Stevens said with construction costs lower than building a new bridge, or highway, and the “niche market” from the train station in to downtown Albany, this seems like a feasible project.

                    “It’s about bringing in economic development,” he said. “With Rensselaer developing the waterfront, and Albany with the Times Union Center and now the convention center and anything else they may have planned, this just brings in business.””
                    ...

                    https://www.timesunion.com/news/arti...o-13218728.php


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