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  • #46
    Originally posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Originally posted by howie View Post
    Originally posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Originally posted by Kitlope View Post
    Thoughts of this thread while reading this. Leave the mastering to human ears.

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...-an-auto-turd/
    Speaking of mastering, what do you guys do for mastering? I'm having issues with my music being too quiet, and not just compared to the loudness war going on right now, but like annoyingly quiet. As well as a lot of mushiness, but I think thats just EQ'ing issues.
    Myself, I don't do any mastering. There are better ears around than mine and an independent set of ears doesn't have the same subjectivity that one's own might. As I previously mentioned, all my instrument tracks are mixed in the keyboard and then recorded in one shot - far from the right way of doing things, I know, but then I'm not heavily into recording, anyway.

    Just a quick thought re. "annoyingly quiet": is your signal hot enough going in? Sometimes that's easily overlooked - been there, done that.
    So you send your sound stems to someone else to master? Ive thought about that but it seems expensive for someone who makes music as a hobby. Yeah most of my stuff ends up hitting 0db pretty consistently, In fact a lot of the time I have trouble keeping it loud while not having it clip.
    No, there's no mastering at all on my recording. Further up the thread I explained that I'm using an arranger keyboard (on that track it was the Korg i30).

    Just in case you're not familiar with arranger keyboards, they essentially construct 'backings' which are created automatically by playing chords with the left hand which the keyboard then interprets into a full backing complete with bass, percussion, drums and three accompaniment tracks (all of which are freely configurable with the instrument of your choice). On the i30, you have a further three tracks for right hand voices, again freely configurable, with which to play melody lines, solos, or additional chorded passages with strings or, say, brass stabs and such. Along the way, you insert your fills, breaks, etc., on the fly. If you have a decent sense of timing, it's not as risky as it sounds.

    So you construct your backing, play your right hand figures over the top to augment what your right hand is doing, then sing on top. That's the "live" playing part of it. For recording, the backing tracks are laid down first and the vocals added on subsequent tracks.

    All that might sound a bit complicated (but what Jim does downright scares me). I'm primarily a live singer with some keyboard chops and not really into the recording thing.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    • #47
      Originally posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
      Originally posted by envaneo View Post
      Originally posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
      Originally posted by Kitlope View Post
      Thoughts of this thread while reading this. Leave the mastering to human ears.

      http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...-an-auto-turd/
      Speaking of mastering, what do you guys do for mastering? I'm having issues with my music being too quiet, and not just compared to the loudness war going on right now, but like annoyingly quiet. As well as a lot of mushiness, but I think thats just EQ'ing issues.
      Your software should have a "Normalize" feature to bring up the noise. I just uploaded another "song" to my YouTube channel. Its not much but its getting there.
      I've actually found that the normalize makes it worse, brings things down to the level of the quieter sections instead of bringing everything up.
      Whenever you use compression (or a Mastering effect that amounts to the same thing), to make it *sound* louder, for example, it will bring your level down, so you need a makeup volume. The more you compress, and the more times you compress (thanks to digital effects processors you can have as many compressors as your CPU can handle), the more makeup volume you need to apply.

      It's usually on the compressor somewhere, called "makeup". Sometimes it can be a significant amount.

      Last edited by Jimbo; 31-05-2016, 02:04 PM.
      aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

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      • #48
        ^ Last night I broke out my old Cakewalk Sonar Home studio 7 DAW and installed it on my Xp system. It works pretty good. Its got a cool step sequencer but there is a bit of latency between that and my M-Audio keyboard. But I'm impressed with the Sonar DAW. It comes with GM drums, distortion guitar, keys, a synth bass guitar and strings. I need a micro sd memory card and reinstall Sonar onto that so I can use it in my Lenova.

        I see a arranger keyboard in my future possibly when I'm on pension as I'll have a bit extra cash to spend on gear. I don't have any Korg products just yet. I almost bought a Korg M-1 keyboard Long & McQuade had as a refurbished product, when they were at their mothers music location in 2011 but I had no way of getting it home. At the moment I'm looking at getting the Korg iDS -10 for my Ntendo but I need the micro sd card first.
        Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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        • #49
          This just in: Long & McQuade's "Monster days" are back for June.
          Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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          • #50
            Originally posted by envaneo View Post
            This just in: Long & McQuade's "Monster days" are back for June.
            I know the credit manager well
            aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

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            • #51
              Monster Days for me is like Boxing day, I'm always broke at the wrong times.
              Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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              • #52
                Originally posted by envaneo View Post
                Monster Days for me is like Boxing day, I'm always broke at the wrong times.
                Hard to believe today (and it was hard to believe back then), but Warren Price used to put almost everything in Mother's Music on half price for Mother's Day.

                The only catch, of sorts, was your account had to be paid up in full.

                He got all of everybody's money. Then he had an empty store and everyone's money for NAMM.

                I had a place in the basement where a certain salesman would let me hide stuff for Mother's Day.

                I have no idea what happened to all of the stuff I bought.

                Those were the days in the music store pro shop era. They even had a pop machine in the back where customers could buy a beer for $1.
                aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

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                • #53
                  Great story. I don't go back that far with music production (wish I would have)

                  Of the 2 accounts I had at the Mothers music location, both were paid in full before their due date. I've had no accounts since 2013, that was the last one.

                  Have you ever been to NAMM? Must be quite the show. A lot of producers I follow go there, Saint Joe, Flux, Cuckoo, Kink. January is NAMM month. My YouTube subscriptions get very active at that time.

                  I know 2 drummers and both of them Cory and Tim have had a lot of accounts at the old mothers location. When I was working at Xentel Tim and I would hurry down to Mothers (LM) almost every Saturday after work. Most likely your gear went to friends or EBay, but beer for a buck? WOW.

                  I was in the 107th street location for my first time last summer. Drooling over the gear. Actually the guy that inspired me to get into music production (Bryon) had a room upstairs in that building. He was a one man band and had a lot of gear. I still have a couple of his punk rock cd's. I lost touch with him. He's a really nice guy. Big fellow, plays bass guitar.
                  Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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                  • #54
                    Instead of "paid up", I should have said "paid off".You couldn't have a balance on account.

                    I was going to go to NAMM one year with Warren Price, but never did. He was a LOT of fun!

                    They had the NAMM show in Chicago one year, home to Playboy Magazine and the Playboy Club, and that's where Warren got the idea for "Mother's Music". At the time Warren was running Gordon Price Music, and, I think, Capital Music Supplies. They'd just bought out the other large music (as in sheet music) store, and were growing, but musical instruments were an afterthought, and not pro level.

                    Gordon Price was still around, but he was the kind of guy who would sneak an extra book in your bag, and say "don't tell Pam", his daughter, who ran the store. I used to have to sneak books back IN to Gordon Price Music.

                    At NAMM, Warren was convinced he needed a store targeted to professional musicians. Keen Kraft (which became L&M) was just starting to do well.

                    "Mother" was a cartoon character in Playboy Magazine, and Warren was a Playboy Club type if there ever was one. He had the artist who drew "Mother" draw a picture of her clutching a guitar (their first logo), and "Mother's Music" was born. I think the one on Jasper Ave was the first.

                    I was fortunate to have been working at Mother's when keyboards really took over, and I got to set up the big new room, and take every keyboard home with me to learn.

                    I even remember when polyphonic keyboards were invented.

                    LOTS! of piano keyboard players used the Apple IIe back then. The invention of midi changed everything. It was a universal format, entirely non-proprietary, agreed upon by all the manufacturers. The fact it's still used heavily today, for all kinds of things, virtually unchanged, is a real testament to midi.

                    So a lot of musicians were early heavy adopters of computers. Back then, it was mostly pretty cheesy, and the ones who were really great at sequencing, and programming their patches, were the lounge performers. We had some great ones. There's a fellow from the West Indies named Simon I've been running into for more than 30 years, and I just saw him a month ago.

                    I'd bet he could tell you everything there is to know about that stuff

                    After having gone into all the keyboards in depth, and seeing/hearing what was possible, my biggest disappointment was that virtually everybody stuck with the pre-programmed patches and mostly used it to emulate "real" instruments like horns, strings, or drums.

                    Korg were the king of bass, and big fat tones. Roland had the crystal bell tones pretty good.

                    Now we can sample, of course. Endless possibilities are available to us. But it's still a neat trick to get it from your head to a recording, or live. That hasn't changed at all.

                    * beers were called "rockets"
                    Last edited by Jimbo; 01-06-2016, 05:35 PM.
                    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

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                    • #55
                      The above is a tough act to follow. I don't know if you know Tim Waterson. He has a YouTube page. He kind of runs around with Can Man Dan if your know that name.

                      When did Long & McQuade have a store on Jasper Ave and where was it located?

                      When I was at the downtown LM store, last summer one of the guys there said at one time they had laptops, customers could open accounts on. My soul for a i7 top line iMac.

                      I'm surprised Axe music doesn't have the same kind of payment plan as LM. I bought FL Studio 10 producer edition from them in 2011, my m-audio station, Sonar Home studio 7. The expensive stuff I bought at LM. When they said I have a year to pay off an account I would have it paid off in 6 months. When I'm back to work steady in September (or earlier) I want to get some of the Volcas, the Roland TB-3 and a decent field recorder and a quality low cost mixer before then end of this year.
                      Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by envaneo View Post
                        The above is a tough act to follow. I don't know if you know Tim Waterson. He has a YouTube page. He kind of runs around with Can Man Dan if your know that name.

                        When did Long & McQuade have a store on Jasper Ave and where was it located?

                        When I was at the downtown LM store, last summer one of the guys there said at one time they had laptops, customers could open accounts on. My soul for a i7 top line iMac.

                        I'm surprised Axe music doesn't have the same kind of payment plan as LM. I bought FL Studio 10 producer edition from them in 2011, my m-audio station, Sonar Home studio 7. The expensive stuff I bought at LM. When they said I have a year to pay off an account I would have it paid off in 6 months. When I'm back to work steady in September (or earlier) I want to get some of the Volcas, the Roland TB-3 and a decent field recorder and a quality low cost mixer before then end of this year.
                        It was Mother's that was on Jasper Ave in the 70's, at about 107 st. Chez Pierre was upstairs at the time, and Jasper Ave was "the stroll" in the evenings.

                        Keen Kraft was also on Jasper Ave at the time. On 109 st under the underpass.

                        Keen Kraft were bought by L&M many years ago. Mother was sold to L&M after Warren passed away.

                        I used to buy all my computers from Mother's.
                        aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

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